Lust in Matrimony

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
Curious to hear positions on the place of lust in marriage.

I've found that the best way to combat lust is to prime yourself to think of it's corresponding virtue - chastity.

The state of chastity is one of peace. While in that state you have an enhanced ability to make deeper connections with others. Energy which may otherwise be wasted is turned into a more endeavoring approach with women - more bold. At least that is my experience. Rather than being constantly preoccupied with the act when talking with women, you can open them in a way in which sex obsessed men (not all, but most) can't.

While the state of lust is one that need constant feeding. No matter how much you feed it, it gets bigger. It's never at peace. It's always looking for the next fix of nudity. When engaging in women, it's always there, on the prowl, like a dog.

Biblical question:

What is the place of lust in marriage?
 
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Errol

Pigeon
Great Biblical question!
I've wondered this myself for the longest time, but have never built up the nerve to ask a priest.
I've always figured it was one of these things best not to ask, and that biology naturally finds a way in marriage, but being unmarried myself, I don't feel I can properly comment.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
If it impacts normal functioning of life it definitely is lust. Sexual passion has its place(Song of Solomon) and Proverbs 5:18-19. But while allowed there are limits to its expression like avoiding disease causing behavior or other forms of physical damage to the body in any way.
 

Salocin

Sparrow
Great question I have also pondered.

I have not even figured out how to interact with attractive women without feeling lust. It's been a difficult journey to say the least.

Isn't lust what drives us to want sex? Isn't the desire for sex what drives us to seek marriage?
 

Lazuli Waves

Woodpecker
I've Googled about Matthew 5:28 in the past, since that seems to be the most cited verse with regard to lust. There were several websites arguing that is misinterpreted. Here are a couple:

http://www.bereanpatriot.com/why-lusting-in-matthew-527-28-doesnt-make-all-men-adulterers/

https://www.jasonstaples.com/bible/most-misinterpreted-bible-passages-1-matthew-527-28/

The arguments vary a little, but the gist of it is this passage lust is referring to coveting, or having a strong desire to have something forbidden to you. In the Greek, lust was not always seen as sexual. For example, you could lust after your neighbor's car. The argument from these sites is that this is different than admiring. They say Jesus is restating the commandment to not covet your neighbor's wife, but adding that if you strongly desire to, or perhaps go so far as to plan to, you've committed adultery in your heart. The arguments these sites make is noticing a female's beauty, even if she's married, isn't lust.

I don't know about other passages regarding lust, and what specific churches say on the topic.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
I have not even figured out how to interact with attractive women without feeling lust. It's been a difficult journey to say the least.

Isn't lust what drives us to want sex? Isn't the desire for sex what drives us to seek marriage?
One of the most important, and simple, things I have learned, is - stop thinking about sex. Those thoughts are the genesis to going out to nightclubs, burning time on Tinder, going to prostitutes, cam girls, porn etc. Once you are to reject those thoughts, which will likely be very hard to begin with; since it's likely no one has ever recommended that and the entire culture is set up to lure you into thinking about sex.

The way I do this is I just think 'chastity' and bring myself to that state. One where I am at peace. You are the opposite of at peace while thinking of sex.

It will likely take you at least a year to de-pornographify your mind. At which point it will be different. You are less likely to be drawn in by flirty eyes, makeup cakes, tight clothing hiding bulges and cellulite etc.; and have energy for the more difficult job of finding and opening better women.

Your last two questions can be true, but it's obviously not ideal. If the primary reason you are interested in women is sex, then there is always other women.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
I don't know about other passages regarding lust, and what specific churches say on the topic.
The position of Dante is that carnal passion is OK, so long as it does not subsume you and lead you to harming others.

In the second circle of Hell are those overcome by lust. These "carnal malefactors" are condemned for allowing their appetites to sway their reason. These souls are buffeted back and forth by the terrible winds of a violent storm, without rest. This symbolizes the power of lust to blow needlessly and aimlessly: "as the lovers drifted into self-indulgence and were carried away by their passions, so now they drift for ever. The bright, voluptuous sin is now seen as it is – a howling darkness of helpless discomfort." Since lust involves mutual indulgence and is not, therefore, completely self-centered, Dante deems it the least heinous of the sins and its punishment is the most benign within Hell proper. The "ruined slope" in this circle is thought to be a reference to the earthquake that occurred after the death of Christ.
 

Mike_Key

Sparrow
I believe in the Thread titled "Are Married men the ultimate incels", I shared about having sex with my Wife everyday. We've been at it for three and 1/2 years, 3.5 years. I think we've now had sex, some, 995 times or something close to that number.

On that thread a guy circled back and said something to the effect of "You wife isn't meant only for sex."

For some people it works and for others it doesn't.

Now I can't imagine what would be --- had we not taken on this "Sex for 30 days" challenge. After the challenge we kept going.

I did like how someone on this thread mentioned that the term or word "lust" was meant to mean for "For someone else things or items, etc." I suppose their could be some truth to that ...

Although my wife does say that if our "sex" was "food" then I would weigh 500 pounds. That's funny but she also enjoys it.

One last thing, yes, if you have sex everyday other tasks or events will suffer. But for us, right now, we simply have to keep up with raising the kids, we're done with school and other aspects of life.

As for other women, yeah, I've probably been guilty of finding literally 1 or a few women in real life attractive, but I always ask the question "Do I want to give her my hard earned money? Do I want to pay her way?"

"No."

And then, I laugh out loud.

That seems to help.

John 3:16
 
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redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
A heuristic I've heard is that lust is taking, love is giving. So when you see a woman on the street, you want to EXTRACT sexual pleasure from her, that's lust. But when you see your wife and you want to give your body to her wholly, that's not lust. Give vs. take.

I'm still figuring this out as well, it's hard to tell when passion in a marriage goes too far.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
lust is taking, love is giving. So when you see a woman on the street, you want to EXTRACT sexual pleasure from her, that's lust.
I think that is the perfect boil-down. It fits with a way I was seeing something; which is:

While in a state of virtue, which is love, you can give of yourself without condition. Two people in that state are in harmony. While two people in a state of sin are in a parasitic or calculated bargain.

Further reading, it seems a fair conclusion that there is a requirement for self mastery and a balance between desire and other considerations. In short, you may enjoy eachother and frequently, but in considetation of other things and in humility of your pleasure.

It brings to mind voodoo rituals in Haiti. People conjour a spirit, which they allow to inhabit their body. The spirit - a demon - uses the body to exract instant pleasure in the form of drugs, dancing, killing animals. The demon does not care for the well being of its vessel.
 
Biblical question:

What is the place of lust in marriage?
As a protestant, I was taught that lust is part of nature and God's design, after all God did design men and women to be sexually active, and lust is a part of that.
But like everything in this reality, lust was corrupted by sin, and turned into something that is potentially evil. As such, it is not inherently evil, the same way masculine impulse towards aggressiveness may or may not be sinful; though it may result in murder, which is bad, it may also result in a husband protecting his family from murderers, which is good.
For that reason, aggressiveness is not only natural, but necessary. So is lust, if it's withim marriage.

We must, therefore, learn to discipline our natural impulses in order to subject and exercise them withim God's principles.

That said, lust is powerful and dangerous. Lust becomes sinful even withim marriage when you let yourself be taken over by it, when you lose control over your sexual drive, in a way that drives you in innapropriate ways to engage in sexuality. Certain organs are not made for sex, and you don't need fetishes to have a satisfying sexual life with your wife. The body is the temple of the Spirit, and you must treat it as such.
The book of Song of Solomon are a collection of poetry with heavy sexual undertones. I think this book is key to understand this.

I'm curious if Catholics have a different view of this. Catholics in my country usually don't say a word about sex, at all, like it is a taboo topic. In my church, however, couples (specially young couples) are adviced to counceiling themselves with the pastor, as well as participating in sunday morning classes aimed at young married couples.
 
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infowarrior1

Hummingbird
A heuristic I've heard is that lust is taking, love is giving. So when you see a woman on the street, you want to EXTRACT sexual pleasure from her, that's lust. But when you see your wife and you want to give your body to her wholly, that's not lust. Give vs. take.

I'm still figuring this out as well, it's hard to tell when passion in a marriage goes too far.
If it interrupts normal functioning in life. Or causes disease or injury.Then it is going too far. Including certain place where its only meant for pooping.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
I think that is the perfect boil-down. It fits with a way I was seeing something; which is:

While in a state of virtue, which is love, you can give of yourself without condition. Two people in that state are in harmony. While two people in a state of sin are in a parasitic or calculated bargain.

Further reading, it seems a fair conclusion that there is a requirement for self mastery and a balance between desire and other considerations. In short, you may enjoy eachother and frequently, but in considetation of other things and in humility of your pleasure.

It brings to mind voodoo rituals in Haiti. People conjour a spirit, which they allow to inhabit their body. The spirit - a demon - uses the body to exract instant pleasure in the form of drugs, dancing, killing animals. The demon does not care for the well being of its vessel.
And of course the result is the loss of health for its vessel. Injury or disease.
 

checkem33

Newbie
That said, lust is powerful and dangerous. Lust becomes sinful even withim marriage when you let yourself be taken over by it, when you lose control over your sexual drive, in a way that drives you in innapropriate ways to engage in sexuality. Certain organs are not made for sex, and you don't need fetishes to have a satisfying sexual life with your wife. The body is the temple of the Spirit, and you must treat it as such.
The book of Song of Solomon are a collection of poetry with heavy sexual undertones. I think this book is key to understand this.

I'm curious if Catholics have a different view of this. Catholics in my country usually don't say a word about sex, at all, like it is a taboo topic. In my church, however, couples (specially young couples) are adviced to counceiling themselves with the pastor, as well as participating in sunday morning classes aimed at young married couples.
There is a lot of personal, subjective views on sex for Catholics (and everything else). The core teaching is all sex must be between a man and a woman who are married, it needs to end with ejaculation in the vagina and without the use of any contraceptives being used for the explicit purpose of preventing pregnancy. Foreplay is not forbidden and even encouraged in some of the writings of St. John Paul ll like Humanae vitae. Again this is within the bounds of marriage.

If you are referring to lust within marriage I cannot say it was explicitly covered in the education I received but was given the context of "don't encourage sexual thoughts about women who are not your wife." In talking with priests about Matthew 5:28 the consensus I got was the thought itself is not a sin but a temptation, it's what we do with those thoughts which determines culpability.
 
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I think of lust as a perversion of sexual desire, which is a God given capacity we have for being motivated to find and then bond with a life mate. And so if you have sex with your next door neighbor's wife, that is lust. But if you are loyal and focused on your wife, and make love to her, that is sexual desire.
 
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