Mainstream Christianity in USA is dying (survey)

Athanasius said:
I was deeply into contemporary Christian music (not necessarily loving it, but tolerating it and playing it in worship contexts) back in the 90s, and somehow the Bethels and Hillsongs have managed to make stuff that's even more content-free. And believe me, it was shallow back then. There's an occasional modern classic w/theological heft-- "How Deep the Father's Love For Us" comes to mind, or "In Christ Alone." But most of the time it's just manipulative attempts to get the feels. The glorious tradition of music expressed in hymnals from the early centuries of the church forward has been lost by many. Hopefully it gets discovered again.

Indeed like this caliber:

If they want to use the original music notation:

 
I pray everyday, before I eat, before I exercise, and sometimes just sit in silence. I have walked into some churches and feel the connection, but not in others. A house with a corrupt hold will have stale air. If the message of said house is not in line with His will then it is a false house and should not be blessed with His presence, and thus not be received by your attendance.

I am getting to the point where I feel that I cannot go to a church because of worldly corruption. I am no saint, and think that struggling against sin will probably last me the remainder of my fleshly days on earth, but I don't want any deception or lie to get in the way of me reaching out and praising my creator, father, and savior.

Mainstream Christianity is dying, because it is not the true vein of Jesus' messages and commands for his followers. Needless wars, confusing and misleading advice on salvation, false tribes, schisms between brothers, pagan idolatry, sin before selflessness, love of money, welcoming demons and darkness, these things are a pox on God's earth, and I want nothing to do with them. To each his own I suppose.
 

ilostabet

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
If the church (whichever it may be) does not offer anything different from the world, why wouldn't it lose to other worldly competitors?

I was watching Roosh's video yesterday, and the ‘Mega Church’ experience really hit me as the epitome of the problem of modernity for the Church. But it is a problem for all Christianity in modernity, not just one denomination vs another. Most Christians do not understand what Christ means when he promises eternal life - they just think 'oh, more of this' or more of the good things in THIS life.

Most cradle Catholics I know, even ones who still go to mass occasionally, do not understand anything about Christianity, they do things without really knowing why we do them – and more and more their churches embrace the ‘entertainment’ aspect to ‘keep people’. What exactly are they keeping, and what for? The priests keep the formalities but don’t (and didn’t for decades) bother to actually explain things, to unveil the mystery – and thus allow this erroneous worldly view to enter into the minds of the parishioners. But if what it offers is just more of the world, just go to the source. If all the Church did in ancient times was offer entertainment, we have better options. If it provides comfort, we have better options. And so on.

The transformation of Mass into Lecture and, at the extreme, Entertainment or Motivational speech fully embodies this worldly understanding. This is why Tradition is rising, if slowly: because what it offers isn’t another version of the world, but something else, something more, something outside of the world. But it has to be explained – especially to those who value rational thought. You can’t just justify it with ‘we’ve been doing this for a long time’. Why?

It is no surprise so many intelligent people turned to atheism and fulfilled the religious drive with other things. But now we actually see people returning to the Scriptures, the Church and Tradition – and a certain kind of people, in particular. Because, finally, someone is bothering to explain things (even on the internet, people are eager to understand – because they know something is missing from their picture of reality).

We shouldn’t despair about these numbers. People are looking for the mystery, they are thirsting like the woman at the well, and it is just a fact that modern churches are not giving the kind of water that will satisfy the soul so we’ll never thirst.

The Church, Tradition, the Scriptures, they all remain intact, and their appeal and adherence is increasing, in particular among the kinds of people who, for two centuries, were trained to disdain it.

What is dying is not Christianity, but the cheap knock-off.
 

Towgunner

Kingfisher
Another thought. Things are changing. Yes they are. And they are not changing in the way Bob Dylan said they were +50 years ago, when ironically, it was his generation and ilk that sung about "change" in the context of rejecting what they said was "the establishment", which very much included Judeo-Christian culture, but was really just a childish rejection of their parents and all the wonderful things they did. Today, I believe there is a legitimate revolution fermenting and in many instances manifesting. One thing is for sure, this revolution is coming. Its best described in our terms i.e. red pilling. Red pilling is occurring all around us and I believe that the tooth paste is out of the tube. This phenomenon is not going to abate not even if Trump is not re-elected in 2020. The Red Pill leads to the God pill. It happened to our very own Roosh as it did to RockingMrE and, recently, Computing Forever. I've always had faith, but, what I observed with most of these cases is that we are repulsed by the culture that we live in. We then realize that this culture isn't independent, rather, its top-down. Its created and imposed on us by a small minority. And this culture is determined to be ever more depraved. We wrestle with this harsh reality especially about reconciling a controlled culture in a society that is supposed to be free. The thing that is our culture becomes less abstract and we begin to see the details of the beast...its festering spores, grasping tentacles, oozing membranes...metaphors for the diabolical agenda for things like brainwashing children to castrate themselves. This catharsis produces a reaction and that reaction is to run at top speed to something that is the polar opposite of contemporary culture and the ideology behind it. Indeed, the beast. And this brings us to the God Pill. This process is occurring and its still relatively small, but, it is now unstoppable and its become an absolute that people will be red pilled. Mathematics will take if from here, because even if only a small percentage of people red pill per year, that percentage compounds.
 
I wanted to post this here, as though it is not a Christian song, it is still a good 'religious' song. This is a Bollywood 'Sufi' song so it still espouses a Monotheistic idea which makes it not so inconsistent with Christianity, so I shouldnt expect Christians to find it offensive.

I translated it myself for some friends who I thought might enjoy it, they think it's pretty good.

Anyway, hope some of you guys can give it a chance cos there is some pretty good poetry in there (especially towards the end).

You Created Me
But The World Rejected Me
Then You Embraced Me
Truly, You Are The God!

 

Athanasius

Pelican
Separating from the church is dangerous and, in fact, God commands believers attend (Heb 10:25). Most of the books of the NT are addressed to churches. Churches are to have elders/presbyters and deacons. And who are the elders to shepherd? That would be people like you and me. I believe it was Cyprian who noted that if God is our father, the church is our mother.

The Westminster Confession, while noting that while even the best churches are subject to error, as were the early churches which had issues with false teachers, also notes that "The visible church...is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation." A church can be subject to error, but so are we if we go rogue and aren't under church authority.
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
I think that the pendulum will eventually swing back the other way.

These things happen in cycles.

I think it’s pretty much about as bad as it can get and is slowly starting to swing back now. This forum is proof of that. It might still take a while though. Not to mention, Christianity is booming in China.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Athanasius said:
Separating from the church is dangerous and, in fact, God commands believers attend (Heb 10:25).

Yeah, but no need to be a nervous nellie about it.

Some people take years to find the right church and that is fine too.
 

N°6

Hummingbird
I think Hebrews 10:25 will become very poignant in the not-too-distant future. The social conservatism that has developed within the manosphere puts most members of this forum at odds with the present liberal financial and liberal social world system. It won’t be long when opposing abortion will be seen as a hate crime against women and Choice(TM).

It will soon to be time to circle the wagons and to stop the tired Lone Ranger existence.
 
MusicForThePiano said:
I am getting to the point where I feel that I cannot go to a church because of worldly corruption. I am no saint, and think that struggling against sin will probably last me the remainder of my fleshly days on earth, but I don't want any deception or lie to get in the way of me reaching out and praising my creator, father, and savior.

Be careful, brother. Trying to figure it all out on your own is dangerous. And I know we're all asking for God's help, but often God's help is the people around us. And if we give up on the Church and stick to ourselves, we're not being there for our fellow Christians who may need us.

I don't mean that we should go start enthusiastically belting out Christian rock songs at a gay wedding presided over by a priestess, but if we shy away from being part of any Christian community we're likely to end up even crazier than the people we were running from. Most of us are not cut out for the hermit life, although some are.

There are many churches with people who are actively trying to follow Christ; although like the people in them, none of the churches are perfect.
 

wwtl

Kingfisher
Emperor Constantine said:
MusicForThePiano said:
I am getting to the point where I feel that I cannot go to a church because of worldly corruption. I am no saint, and think that struggling against sin will probably last me the remainder of my fleshly days on earth, but I don't want any deception or lie to get in the way of me reaching out and praising my creator, father, and savior.

Be careful, brother. Trying to figure it all out on your own is dangerous. And I know we're all asking for God's help, but often God's help is the people around us. And if we give up on the Church and stick to ourselves, we're not being there for our fellow Christians who may need us.

I don't mean that we should go start enthusiastically belting out Christian rock songs at a gay wedding presided over by a priestess, but if we shy away from being part of any Christian community we're likely to end up even crazier than the people we were running from. Most of us are not cut out for the hermit life, although some are.

There are many churches with people who are actively trying to follow Christ; although like the people in them, none of the churches are perfect.

Where I live mainstream church officials (Catholic, Evangelic) endorse fornication and rainbows. At the same time I notice, the more "young", "modern" and charismatic the worship becomes, the more traditional and Biblical are the values communicated.

I sat inside Gothic church buildings approaching a millennium playing 18th century organ music next to rainbow flags with typical globohomo preaching. And I attended the typical rock music megachurch experience inside an "awakening hall" with a sermon condemning prostitution, porn, masturbation and sex before marriage with a clear "no compromises" stance. While selling books like "Spiritual Warfare" by Derek Prince right next to it.

So that tells me, that I should look below the rituals on the surface. They might be inverted.
 

Athanasius

Pelican
wwtl said:
Where I live mainstream church officials (Catholic, Evangelic) endorse fornication and rainbows. At the same time I notice, the more "young", "modern" and charismatic the worship becomes, the more traditional and Biblical are the values communicated.

I sat inside Gothic church buildings approaching a millennium playing 18th century organ music next to rainbow flags with typical globohomo preaching. And I attended the typical rock music megachurch experience inside an "awakening hall" with a sermon condemning prostitution, porn, masturbation and sex before marriage with a clear "no compromises" stance. While selling books like "Spiritual Warfare" by Derek Prince right next to it.

So that tells me, that I should look below the rituals on the surface. They might be inverted.

There are faithful churches about everywhere. You may have to travel a bit. In small towns the churches do tend to be wholly pozzed steeple churches that were once believing but were long ago subverted and taken over by liberals (often they are quite beautiful architecturally, which makes the rainbow flags they fly even more vomit-inducing). Occasionally there is a more conservative pastor and the music is often still good (old hymns), but all the seminaries are converged and even the more "conservative" pastors are egalitarians. I've gone to funerals where there has been a woman pastor and I just won't join them in prayer.

There are individual believers on occasion in these denoms, mostly older people who've been going there a long time. A lot of the believers bled off to megachurches -- mainlines are going to be largely gone in 25 years -- but megachurches can have their own problems despite generally being much more faithful than mainline denoms. The Missouri Synod Lutherans, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, reformed baptists, and the URCNA are examples of more rigorous believing protestant churches. There are a lot of still good baptist churches too, even in the SBC.
 

Athanasius

Pelican
Emperor Constantine said:
MusicForThePiano said:
I am getting to the point where I feel that I cannot go to a church because of worldly corruption. I am no saint, and think that struggling against sin will probably last me the remainder of my fleshly days on earth, but I don't want any deception or lie to get in the way of me reaching out and praising my creator, father, and savior.

Be careful, brother. Trying to figure it all out on your own is dangerous. And I know we're all asking for God's help, but often God's help is the people around us. And if we give up on the Church and stick to ourselves, we're not being there for our fellow Christians who may need us.

I don't mean that we should go start enthusiastically belting out Christian rock songs at a gay wedding presided over by a priestess, but if we shy away from being part of any Christian community we're likely to end up even crazier than the people we were running from. Most of us are not cut out for the hermit life, although some are.

There are many churches with people who are actively trying to follow Christ; although like the people in them, none of the churches are perfect.

When looking at any parachurch ministry or internet site, one of the big things I check is whether the leader is member in good standing of a believing church. A surprising number of people end up being lone rangers. I've seen these kind of guys come and go over the years. They are often combative, nasty, and they leave a trail of damaged relationships which they claim is because others lack their purity. These divisive people need to be called to repentance or avoided. An honest man looks at his own sin and his own tendency toward self-deception and selfishness. Other believers help us, as do faithful shepherds.
 

Garuda

Kingfisher
Believe in nothing, fall for everything. So when can we expect the next Jonestown?

The best way to find out if a church is decent or not is to see whether they still use the traditional catechisms of their sect in confirmation classes. The majority of fallen ones do not.
 

hervens

Robin
I believe the biggest threat we're facing is not necessarily the fall of the traditional christian church, but the birth of a new type of mainstream church.

A church that's exciting and invigorating. A church that attempts to "fix" the problems of the old church and make all feel welcomed regardless of political or moral position. A church where scripture is twisted slightly in a way to appease the masses, and a church that gets applauses from the community for their support of women's rights and the LGBT movement.

To back up what I'm saying, I occasionally attend service at one of these up and coming non-denomitional Christian churches in my city.

Attendance has been skyrocketing especially with the millennial generation (18 - 34). Free coffee is served throughout the entire service, live heavy rock "christian" music, and the church has arrangements with a local bar where we’re invited to meet afterwards to mingle.
At first I thought to myself, wow, what an amazing way to get people back to Christ, but after multiple services I slowly started seeing the deep hidden deception in these new Christian movements. The devil wants to be worshiped, and he’ll get his way one way or the other.

Peter 5:8 (KJV)
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour"

"During a time when we’re seeing a decline in congregations at more traditional churches across the nation, the megachurch seems to be attracting more and more people"
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/11/21/megachurches-continue-to-grow-in-popularity/
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
The megachurch is just a low-priced concert that gives you transient good feelings. They avoid talk of hell, enduring suffering, or self-examination.
 

Hermetic Seal

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
Most megachurches with a flashy production actually tend to be pretty conservative, theologically-speaking. There are probably some exceptions, but they usually aren't the ones cucking left and right - that's mostly mainline Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian, etc.

Of course, there's plenty of potential for that to happen to evangelical megachurches too, but it doesn't seem to have really started yet. They have a whole host of issues, but it's largely separate from cucking (although I have noticed that trendy blabbering about social justice is on the rise in the evangelical environment.)
 
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