Male and Female Dynamics

[Thanks]

Another example that came to mind; Someone I went to high school with, she is uncouth low class behavior, who is a single mother to three children each with a different father. We were in the same fb high school reunion group. There is an older guy who went to the same high school and part of the group. He is a good looking guy and former Navy. The single mother is very homely looking and no she does not have a “beautiful soul” or Christian. This guy would write the most beta obsessive worship things to her. She showed me the screenshots. Then in the group he attacks and verbally abuses a very attractive woman for posting a favorable Trump post. He even goes as far as taunting her for having a Spanish last name. Then I pm the single mom and showed him what he did to my friend. I told her that she needs to be careful with the guy he has psychological problems. She told me I know, he has a drinking problem. Then straight up told me she was using him so he can buy her a new car that she needs.

I have seen this case, where men are extra hostile toward good looking women, while only dating the homely looking ones. This guy who was in academia another good looking guy, although he dressed in poor fashion/outdated clothes. He had two girlfriends from the time I knew him. Both of them were morbidly obese trolls, one of them as significantly older than him. He was living in my cousin’s apartment complex. My cousin is a very outgoing gal, and he lived in the apartment right below her’s. Ofc, he never made a pass at her and she is the golddigger type and would never be with him. He was even rather aloof toward my cousin. He worked as a professor in the state college and one of my cousin’s friends was in his class. She ran to my cousin’s house almost crying because he was being very hostile and rude to her and sure enough she is a very attractive girl. I have seen this guy constantly insulting any woman that was attractive and according to another friend would talk bad about my cousin behind her back.

 

[TexasJenn]

Men go for less physically attractive women for a variety of reasons, I'm pretty sure. Maybe some are insecure and feel more secure being the better-looking one, and some have probably dealt with better-looking women who were high maintenance, self-absorbed, or whatever. And then some may just see a special something in that average woman.

I'm all right, but my first boyfriend in high school was very good-looking. He had no problem getting the hottest girls, and the whole time we were together they were chasing him. He said most people are very fixated on his looks and he liked that I treated him like a real person and not anything extraordinary just because he was hot. That's something I noticed in my former dating life. Hot men are often objectified and women act just as irrationally with them as men often do with hot women. They like people who maintain their composure and treat them like a real, normal person.

It's probably the same reason I have some hot friends. Many women are weird around them, but I take them as the whole person, good looks, flaws, and all.

 

[Ah_Tibor]

Men go for less physically attractive women for a variety of reasons, I'm pretty sure. Maybe some are insecure and feel more secure being the better-looking one, and some have probably dealt with better-looking women who were high maintenance, self-absorbed, or whatever. And then some may just see a special something in that average woman.

I think this relates a lot to serial monogamy. More "serious" people end up in consecutive relationships (as opposed to actual promiscuity) where they're just as damaged as people who have been through a divorce. So when they move onto the "next" person they're working under a lot of faulty assumptions.

 

[Kitty Tantrum]

I suspect many men have the bias that hot women they think porn star or that they are by default vapid and are empty vessels in the inside, that is a bias they have and nothing will change it.

I have experienced this bias firsthand.

I spent my entire youth developing my domestic skills and a mostly cheerful disposition, and didn't put much effort into my appearance. When I was cute but plain (or even a touch homely due to being slightly pudgy), these qualities were widely recognized and well-received. People obviously thought my appearance and character were congruent. People EXPECTED me to be more pleasant and personable when I was less visually attractive.

I wanted to be "hot" for my first husband, so I got in really good shape, got cute clothes, started grooming myself a little nicer and looking more put-together.

So then people thought I was really hot. Like at the level where I had men walk into things in grocery stores because they were staring (even though I was walking hand-in-hand with my ex-husband at the time, big red flag that my ex LIKED this).

After my marriage fell apart and I was on my own and was in the position of occasionally TALKING to some of the men who would stare at me... I was very quickly turned off from talking to men I met in person pretty much anywhere.

It's not just men, it's people in general, who tend to look at me when I am in good physical condition and "prettied-up" to any degree, and they just immediately assume I have had the standard beautiful-female-trajectory of ease and convenience and free stuff and getting whatever I want and being spoiled and entitled and vapid and useless, etc.

Nothing could be farther from the truth, and it is incredibly offensive when people make those assumption in lieu of learning anything at all about me. And then they just blindly follow the formula they've learned to follow when dealing with vapid entitled beautiful women. And then I want to have absolutely nothing to do with them, no matter how handsome or wealthy or charismatic they may be.

When I was chubby, EVERYONE NOTICED that I've got a big-brain and an overactive work ethic and that I'm the kind of woman who cheerfully cooks and bakes and cleans and serves my husband while keeping my ducks in a row.

When I was possessed of the sort of physical appearance that inspires instantaneous attraction/lust, most people became utterly blind to those qualities, even though my behavior and attitude did not change.

Sometimes I'd be talking to a customer at work who LOVED my baked goods but had no idea I was the baker (/pastry chef/bakery manager/bakery slave), and when they finally made the connection they'd be like "NO YOU'RE NOT!"

Every freaking person thought I was some dumb basic bimbo airhead part-time café-worker because I was tiny and beautiful and they only ever saw me fussing with displays or filling in on a cash register when the café girls needed a break. And they treated me like that, and they talked to me like that, and some of them would even get HOSTILE like they thought I was LYING about what my job actually was.

I can recall a few times when I thought a man might be "testing" me - following the basic-bimbo-formula and expecting that my reaction would either prove the rule, OR that if I wasn't a basic bimbo, I would raise some objection to his assumptions and set the record straight, and then he could begin to make me "prove it."





It's not my job to jump through hoops and prove I'm not pretending.

No man in the world is enough of a "prize" for me to put up with THAT. There is nothing a man could bring to the table to make up for his inability to recognize my LASTING value. I do not want a man who wants me because I am pretty and then projects a bunch of poor qualities onto me that he's willing to tolerate because he likes how I'd look on his arm. FUGGEDDABOUDIT. Not an acceptable starting place.

It's his job to pay attention and use discernment.

Show me the men who SEE me. Show me the men who RECOGNIZE me. Show me the men who know what to DO with me. And of THOSE men, I'll choose the one I like the best. And even if he's OLD and SHORT and UGLY and BROKE, he is a BETTER MAN than any of the prime, tall, handsome, wealthy (etc.) ones who are too devoted to their analysis of averages and formulas to open their eyes to what is in front of them.

My husband is one of only a TINY handful of men I've met who saw past my attractive exterior within a reasonable timeframe and wanted me for what I'm good at and for what I DO. All the others were younger men who would not have been suitable for me.

I think most people would probably say that I am solidly "more attractive" than my husband in terms of looks (a couple points, maybe). He is not particularly tall, he is not "jacked," he does not have a pretty face, etc. He says he was teased for basically being ugly when he was younger. He was also kind of broke when we met, and is not much less broke now!

My husband scooped me up like a $500 tool being sold for $50 in an antique store just because it's a little rusty.

And that is how I suddenly came to realize he was the ONLY man I'd ever met who was qualified to be my husband. He might as well be the only man in the world.

 

[Thanks]

Here is Litmus Test going around in Twitter of an Italian model. Imo, she is attractive and cute i would say beautiful imo. She has a sweet, neotonic look. Many men are tweeting that they do not find her attractive at all and tired of seeing her. So beauty indeed is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Thanks]

On the other hand, I have seen countless men talk about how hot Brittany Venti is. Disproportionate facial features; however she does have large breasts, fake or natural does not matter to the average male. She has a huge following. Each to their own.

 

[Kitty Tantrum]

I would call both of those women "striking."

They both choose to play-up features that make them look more unique or exotic, but less feminine. Their body language and overall demeanor is much the same.

 

[Thanks]

I would call both of those women "striking."

They both choose to play-up features that make them look more unique or exotic, but less feminine. Their body language and overall demeanor is much the same.

Ok, but I don’t see the less feminine part. I don’t the body language and overall demeanor of the Italian model since I only saw a photo, but Venti I have seen in video, she says a lot of catchy things and wears tops showing her breasts, so I found a picture not so revealing.

 

[Kitty Tantrum]

Ok, but I don’t see the less feminine part. I don’t the body language and overall demeanor of the Italian model since I only saw a photo, but Venti I have seen in video, she says a lot of catchy things and wears tops showing her breasts, so I found a picture not so revealing.

I tried to find the video clip I've seen of the Italian model girl, but no luck.

What I mean when I say less feminine, is that there is an overlaid emphasis on angularity and lines, rather than roundness and curves. In their makeup, in their clothing, and in the way they carry themselves.

(I have no idea what either of these women sounds like or the sorts of things they say, I watch everything with volume off, so my analysis is strictly visual.)

 

[Ah_Tibor]

I would call both of those women "striking."

They both choose to play-up features that make them look more unique or exotic, but less feminine. Their body language and overall demeanor is much the same.

Who are we to say what men find attractive? We're going to find one "cute" because she reminds us of a nice daughter/sister/friend, and feel antagonistic to the other because we view her as competition. Not rocket surgery.

I have high cheekbones which some people say are attractive, but I always thought my face was weird looking.

 

[messaggera]

Can appreciate the several posters' mature responses to the topic that make the thread interesting; and the potential to be fruitful.

As I expected some have misunderstood this thread.

Could you clarify the purpose of the thread because personally I could not find your main extended ideas - which leads to assumptions and/or the perception of pride on your part.

Your posts about your male relatives, their girlfriends, your family members, your high school peers (and her fatherless children), etc. are coming across as idle talk /gossip. Gossiping about personal (mental health/behaviour) and private affairs of others (to the extent which you are doing) is none of your business or other individual's business. James 4:11-12

Orthodox commentary:

Belittling criticism of others is another case of pride coming out in what we say. It is a lack of faith united with evil works, an offense both to the person criticised and to God. God's will is to love others with humility and mercy, even if they are in the wrong.

Could you have presented the information without gossiping about other individuals? Could you have used personal dating experiences with males, or used examples taken from social science literature rather than your opinion of the individuals you are gossiping about in this thread? There are ways of giving the same profile/individuals' information you provided for discussions without coming across as immature and prideful.

May the Lord have mercy on me if I should have remained silent.

 

[Kitty Tantrum]

Who are we to say what men find attractive?

True. I'm just pointing out that I can see why a lot of men don't particularly favor how these women look.

I can understand why they DO, as well, because a LOT of men are, for whatever reason, very strongly attracted to subtly masculine features on women (tomboyish).

I had a lesbian co-worker/friend for a few years who played up all of the angles and lines of her appearance in similar ways PRECISELY BECAUSE she wanted to have a more masculine silhouette (she was calculating about her fashion like you wouldn't believe). And she got SO MUCH ATTENTION from men. I saw it with my own eyes, the way a lot of men respond to that very particular aesthetic.

But it is usually a pretty polarized thing. The men who weren't INTO her masculinized appearance would not rate her as a highly attractive woman (aside from the fact that being skinny is so uncommon). So I can understand the hot/cold response from men to women like Venti and the Italian girl above.

The "scales of attractiveness" are easily tipped by all sorts of things.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

Men go for less physically attractive women for a variety of reasons, I'm pretty sure. Maybe some are insecure and feel more secure being the better-looking one, and some have probably dealt with better-looking women who were high maintenance, self-absorbed, or whatever. And then some may just see a special something in that average woman.

I'm all right, but my first boyfriend in high school was very good-looking. He had no problem getting the hottest girls, and the whole time we were together they were chasing him. He said most people are very fixated on his looks and he liked that I treated him like a real person and not anything extraordinary just because he was hot. That's something I noticed in my former dating life. Hot men are often objectified and women act just as irrationally with them as men often do with hot women. They like people who maintain their composure and treat them like a real, normal person.

It's probably the same reason I have some hot friends. Many women are weird around them, but I take them as the whole person, good looks, flaws, and all.

Yes it's mosty a maintenance issue. Being with an attractive woman especially in this day and age of constant amoral competition is just a headache. Especially if this woman is constantly looking for other options. Men highly regard peace, the pressure of the constant burden of performance is tough enough, can't have an enemy in the back also if the world is full of ''enemies''.

 

[Thanks]

Can appreciate the several posters' mature responses to the topic that make the thread interesting; and the potential to be fruitful.



Could you clarify the purpose of the thread because personally I could not find your main extended ideas - which leads to assumptions and/or the perception of pride on your part.

Your posts about your male relatives, their girlfriends, your family members, your high school peers (and her fatherless children), etc. are coming across as idle talk /gossip. Gossiping about personal (mental health/behaviour) and private affairs of others (to the extent which you are doing) is none of your business or other individual's business. James 4:11-12

Orthodox commentary:


Could you have presented the information without gossiping about other individuals? Could you have used personal dating experiences with males, or used examples taken from social science literature rather than your opinion of the individuals you are gossiping about in this thread? There are ways of giving the same profile/individuals' information you provided for discussions without coming across as immature and prideful.

May the Lord have mercy on me if I should have remained silent.

I am making objective observations of secular society that are becoming a problem and especially Marxist due to a lack of faith. I am using examples anonymously. There is nothing that indicates pride on my part as all I am doing is observing. If you don't like what I have to say then ignore me. As for the gossip, it is not gossip. I was describing a woman that is a single mother with several children with different fathers. I don‘t know how I could have said this in a nicer way. If I would have said in verbatim “this woman is a prostitute or the w word because she has three children by different men, THEN that would constitute as gossip but I never said that. Stating a situation is not “gossip.”

Well I should have used examples in social literature observations and I should not have labeled the examples I used as how I know them but should have used examples of persons in a more discreet way, for example, male 1 and female 1; male 2 and female 2. Lord forgive me that I did not do that and should have.

The name calling of me and reprimanding me or my actions as “prideful and immature” comes off as hypocritical as you are doing gossip yourself. You are also belittling a person. “Belittling criticism of others is another case of pride.”

Your overall agenda does come of as saying “I am holier than thou.” Plus, taking the time to cherry pick every minute detail as painting me as less worthy of God. Of course, it is ok if you or your friends make a break of say the commandments or sins but not ok when someone who don’t consider a friend to do so and you feel you are in a position to reprimand them.

You really did well in the cherry picking. You were hostile to me in another thread response, also cherry picking. Where according to you it is ok if who you deem worthy to make mistakes including yourself, but others who you don’t personally deem as such can’t and you will chastise them for it. When I made a reasonable reply to the previous post, you of course never replied, as I don’t expect a reply from you on this post. You can put it out but can’t take it in.

I remember here you were instigating gossip toward Lana Lokteff. Now you are going to chastise me for looking for some wrong you did in the past, like you chastised me when I screenshot a wrong your friend did in a previous time. Yes it is ok for you to make past mistakes and for your friends, but not people who you don’t deem as your friends, then I reiterate, it is NOT ok and deserve a reprimanding from you.

Not surprising to hear.

The information being circulated online is that family background is Jewish. Can anyone confirm? Think there is also arguments made about identifying her physical features as Jewish decent.

Just stating what is online, as I avoid personalities similar to her as an individual.

 

[messaggera]

I apologise @Thanks for emotionally upsetting you; given your first two created thread topics on this ladies' forum I should learn to soften my tone if there are to be future interactions between us. Please forgive me.

Will be the first to admit I come across as very harsh at times, but certainly not hostile with intentions to hold malice towards an individual; but rather the opposite.

Plus, taking the time to cherry pick every minute detail as painting me as less worthy of God.

I am sorry me posting the scripture reference made you feel this way. That was not my intention, but rather your perception. A lot of individuals gossip; as I fall victim to the behaviour too at times. I wish my family would remind me when I participate in idle talk.

I hold no prideful or hostile [feelings that someone is worthless or beneath consideration]; for if I did why would I even take the time to propose considerations to having someone self-valuate his/her behaviours - Knowing that from experiences there is a probability of an emotional charged response?

The name calling of me and reprimanding me or my actions as “prideful and immature” comes off as hypocritical as you are doing gossip yourself.

I have only focused on individuals’ identified behaviours - not name calling an individual. If I did I should have been reported and banned. Do you not know the difference between name calling and behaviour identifying?

Here is a random example:

1. She is a narcissistic attention whore (name calling - which I do not do)
2. Her behaviour suggests she is seeking attention to uplift her ego (behaviour identifying)

You are also belittling a person. “Belittling criticism of others is another case of pride.”

I have not belittled you with criticism, but rather presented a perception ( your posts are coming across as idle talk /gossip): did you not recognise the potential of your own pride in your behaviour (posts about others) ? It took me less than a minute once logging on to see the consistent pattern of information you shared about others. Honestly, it was depressing to hear talk of others in a manner during Lent.

Your overall agenda does come of as saying “I am holier than thou.” Plus, taking the time to cherry pick every minute detail as painting me as less worthy of God. Of course, it is ok if you or your friends make a break of say the commandments or sins but not ok when someone who don’t consider a friend to do so and you feel you are in a position to reprimand them.

Why are you shaming/ridiculing my behaviour to which is sharing the word of truth to consider?
Are we not all here to work on our salvation when given the opportunity? Or we not here to help others?
Could we all not need to repent from pride and to replace it with virtue of humility?
I sure do! Thank you for reminding me!

God knows how flawed I am. With His Son’s help and through daily repentance and deeds I am working on being a Christian worthy of
salvation.

You really did well in the cherry picking. You were hostile to me in another thread response, also cherry picking.

Do you mean this hostile response I gave you in another thread?

Where according to you it is ok if who you deem worthy to make mistakes including yourself, but others who you don’t personally deem as such can’t and you will chastise them for it. When I made a reasonable reply to the previous post, you of course never replied, as I don’t expect a reply from you on this post. You can put it out but can’t take it in.

" You can put it out but can't take it" ?

Your interactions with me (behaviour) suggests you prefer to perpetuate arguments in order to keep your ego intact; instead you have missed an opportunity, through shared scripture, to [estimate the worth or quality of] your online presence as fruitful to yourself.

May your daily prayers and devotions be filled with His grace this Lenten season.

 

[Thanks]

I apologise @Thanks for emotionally upsetting you; given your first two created thread topics on this ladies' forum I should learn to soften my tone if there are to be future interactions between us. Please forgive me.

Will be the first to admit I come across as very harsh at times, but certainly not hostile with intentions to hold malice towards an individual; but rather the opposite.



I am sorry me posting the scripture reference made you feel this way. That was not my intention, but rather your perception. A lot of individuals gossip; as I fall victim to the behaviour too at times. I wish my family would remind me when I participate in idle talk.

I hold no prideful or hostile [feelings that someone is worthless or beneath consideration]; for if I did why would I even take the time to propose considerations to having someone self-valuate his/her behaviours - Knowing that from experiences there is a probability of an emotional charged response?



I have only focused on individuals’ identified behaviours - not name calling an individual. If I did I should have been reported and banned. Do you not know the difference between name calling and behaviour identifying?

Here is a random example:

1. She is a narcissistic attention whore (name calling - which I do not do)
2. Her behaviour suggests she is seeking attention to uplift her ego (behaviour identifying)

I have not belittled you with criticism, but rather presented a perception ( your posts are coming across as idle talk /gossip): did you not recognise the potential of your own pride in your behaviour (posts about others) ? It took me less than a minute once logging on to see the consistent pattern of information you shared about others. Honestly, it was depressing to hear talk of others in a manner during Lent.



Why are you shaming/ridiculing my behaviour to which is sharing the word of truth to consider?
Are we not all here to work on our salvation when given the opportunity? Or we not here to help others?
Could we all not need to repent from pride and to replace it with virtue of humility?
I sure do! Thank you for reminding me!

God knows how flawed I am. With His Son’s help and through daily repentance and deeds I am working on being a Christian worthy of
salvation.



Do you mean this hostile response I gave you in another thread?



" You can put it out but can't take it" ?

Your interactions with me (behaviour) suggests you prefer to perpetuate arguments in order to keep your ego intact; instead you have missed an opportunity, through shared scripture, to [estimate the worth or quality of] your online presence as fruitful to yourself.

May your daily prayers and devotions be filled with His grace this Lenten season.

I am the person who avoids confrontation more than the average person in real life, but I can be defensive and sensitive, so I am sorry about that. If I find a response is harsh to me, I should just handle it in a more tactful manner or just ignore it and not respond at all. This is the only forum I am a member of, so this topic manner should not have been talked about in a Christian forum. There was something I had been thinking about that I wanted to see others observations really, and there was more than enough gotten and this thread can end now. A political oriented forum or reddit would have been a much more suited place for this subject manner. I don’t have a reddit account because of the rabbit hole issue. Now this forum has more threads that men can talk about besides Christianity but as long as it is not inappropriate. Ladies have only one section and I think it is put here just to share Christian-like advice. You just seem so nice so you seeming mad at me kind of made me feel sensitive. The other thread about my family is working itself out, as the prayers have been helping.

 

[Bird]

a LOT of men are, for whatever reason, very strongly attracted to subtly masculine features on women (tomboyish).

What?
I always liked and still like feminine women.

Can you give us some examples of these LOTS of men being attracted to tomboys?

 

[Kitty Tantrum]

What?
I always liked and still like feminine women.

Can you give us some examples of these LOTS of men being attracted to tomboys?

Well, to be fair, you and the men on this forum do not represent the majority of men.

I gave one example already in the post you quoted. There is also my personal experience with many men encouraging ME to dress and behave that way. Many men taking more notice and responding more enthusiastically to my presence when I have ditched the cute girly dresses and worn something more boyish.

I had girlfriends take me out shopping being like "DON'T YOU EVER WEAR PANTS???" and I'd try out whatever style for a little bit, and yeah, it was weird to me that I got a broader positive response to those things than to my cute dresses, but it's what happened.

In my area in particular, most "average dudes" have an obvious preference for one of the handful of mass-popularized aesthetics: Carhartt tomboys, Chuck Taylors tomboys, and cowgirl tomboys. It's like a sort of ingrained brand loyalty.

I understand many don't RELATE to the preference, but inverted fabricated culture "is what it is." It's all around us. Being an exception to it doesn't make it go away.

(I was also weirded out by how, after my ex-husband talked me into doing the open marriage thing with him, a HUGE chunk of the unsolicited attention I got online was from men who saw a picture of me looking about as girly and "vanilla" as anyone can be and would basically beg me to dress up like an androgynous dominatrix and boss them around. I don't think anyone here can relate to THAT either, but it was a STAGGERING chunk of the messages I/we received when my ex and I were using degenerate social websites.)

 

[Ah_Tibor]

In my area in particular, most "average dudes" have an obvious preference for one of the handful of mass-popularized aesthetics: Carhartt tomboys, Chuck Taylors tomboys, and cowgirl tomboys. It's like a sort of ingrained brand loyalty.

I think this is probably a class thing. Also some guys like the idea of a rough-looking woman who is really pretty on the inside, isn't seeking attention, makes a good buddy/helpmeet etc (or is wearing their clothes), can "handle" things (which means a lot of... things).

Most men respond viscerally to women in pretty clothes, though.

 

[messaggera]

Taking this as an opportunity to caution about the dangers of engaging in the extreme alt-right online communities as a Christian, and the importance of discernment.

I remember here you were instigating gossip toward Lana Lokteff. Now you are going to chastise me for looking for some wrong you did in the past ....

Just for clarification in regard to the accusation made against this account, instigating gossip toward Lana Lokteff, here is the context of the initial discussion. Keeping in mind it was not I who brought up this actor/provocateur's name:

Lana Lokteff who is 43 also has three children, first one at 40, and now she just had her 3rd at 43. However, I am not sure if these were natural births, some speculate she used a surrogate, as she never announced she was pregnant, never appeared pregnant in her video broadcasts. It was only announced after the babies were born. I don’t follow her or her husband on twitter but the announcement of a baby girl born on my TF.

It is hard enough for a woman to have all three births in her thirties, nevermind in her forties. So this is a weird thing I have noticed lately.

Sincere question: do you think Lana Lokteff is a good moral role model?

No… I was just using her as an example of women having three children in their 40’s. Plus, she is pagan and has blasphemed Christ.

messaggera:
Not surprising to hear.

The information being circulated online is that family background is Jewish. Can anyone confirm? Think there is also arguments made about identifying her physical features as Jewish decent.

Just stating what is online, as I avoid personalities similar to her as an individual.

Given the behavioural pattern, public historical record, prior entertainment involvement, and questionable support from NPR to interview this provocateur it would do her no favours to continue discussing the type of fruit she produces. Unfortunately, Henrik Palmgren's Red Ice content deteriorate in 2012 - along with the sudden transfer to race topics as the primary focus. Timing is everything is it not? Along with the company kept.