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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Heuristics" data-source="post: 1232822" data-attributes="member: 14706">Rob: I’m using the term in a derivative sense like many do—not the proper sense. Where players think it unacceptable to accept a girl in a LTR/ Marriage with only one, or few, notches. Quite simply you write off women with a notch or two, and say they’re whores and the marriage won’t succeed. It seems like weak logic to me.Re: Pump and dump. Yes I know men are prone to it. But it’s basic game theory here: don’t pump and dump women so much across the whole culture, and overall quality of women is going up. Basically, you are a player that has lasting repercussions on everyone, both genders, not just yourself. Your behavior reverberates onto women and norms in the larger community. Look at individual-level tolerance of gayness or promiscuity in conservative communities. Norms and behaviors start at the individual level, then work their way into the whole of society. By participating in a libertine sexual culture you are contributing to the creation of bad sexual norms, it is that simple. Much like one person (individual) cutting the line hurts everyone else in the line (community), such is also the case with community sexual norms.Re: living longer. Better medical care now, less infant mortality, less childbirth deaths, less violence. I’ll leave it at that. A girl’s actions are subtly influenced by society. You can’t control that. You can’t pick her friends, you can’t prevent her from social media, you can’t lock her up. We live in a modern society where women are afforded all the exact same rights as men, and even more. Again,I repeat, most women are situational virgins and not red-pilled religious virgins. Many cannot understand the subtle difference.Ceding of individual responsibility is a clue to me that we are living in a declining society where almost all men are unwilling to make moral, independent choices. In my view that makes them boys, and really no better than the women that slut around. This sort of reminds me of how damaging groupthink can be. Groupthink does not move society forward, in fact it leads to regression. Men should take full ownership of their actions. In the quest to be better human beings, all of us, especially men, have to take responsibility.Saying, “I can do nothing” feeds into a destructive “enjoy the decline” nihilist mentality that actually accelerates societal collapse. Ironically men that want virgins should want a society that does not tolerate deviance or sexual libertinism. Thus, as men in their early youths, they should avoid as much participation as possible in the degeneracy. Not because sex is bad, or anything like that, simply because they are pissing in a communal pool that everyone has to swim in.I doubt my frame is strong enough to get a virgin. I also doubt most other player’s frames are strong enough for a virgin. Most men are too old for a virgin in the west, if they do marry, they’ll marry a younger guy. Christian chad is getting the virgin. Your virgin is for all purposes unobtainable, and you’ll be searching forever. In that time you won’t have any kids, no family. Even if you get her, she will be corrupted. She will have bad friends. She will work. She will be exposed to bad influences. You don’t know how she will handle temptation because she probably hasn’t handled much. You will have put a lot of effort and money and love into the relationship. All women are like that, she’s nothing special. She’ll still leave when she finds someone better. You don’t live in a patriarchal culture, and you don’t live in a vacuum. I will have no problem having kids with a girl with 1-notch count. I have no problem at all with a virgin, but practically it’s bound to fail. I view a virgin as ideal, but probably an unobtainable one due to the reasons I’ve already given.Human nature will not change while society itself will get worse. You’re playing a rigged game that will only get worse, and assuming solely virginity is the solution to a much bigger societal issue is just stop-gap problem solving.The question ought not be: I'd rather have a virgin than a low notch girl; the question should be: will a relationship in the real world with a virgin be more successful than a relationship with a low notch girl. Will you even find a virgin? Keep in mind opportunity cost too, the years of your life spent on the search, no children during that time, all of that; it's the real world and not some utopia.</blockquote>

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