Mark Minter is getting married?
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Robin
It's important to keep things in perspective. First of all, this news is 2 days old and this could all be a hoax. But whether it's a hoax or not, it puts us through an interesting thought experiment about what happens when somebody goes against the community.
tl;dr- It's probably best to keep from frothing at the mouth.
There's a taxonomy of sorts in this part of the web.
Roosh, Rollo, and Roissy (who has slipped spectacularly) seem to be the most prominent. On a plane far below, there's a few influential others who come to mind like Krauser, MikeCF, and Dalrock. And then you have a handful of all-star commenters: Samseau, GBFM, Quintus Curtius and of course, the artist formerly known as Mark Minter.
In this community, as in any, some people wield more influence than others. This is a diverse group and everybody forms an identity. Roosh has planted himself as a nomadic, pensive womanizing bohemian. Rollo as a married man on the sidelines with a highly analytic ability for framing modern social & sexual dynamics. And Roissy as a wry, calculating, nihilistic seducer with a heavy touch of bitterness and racism.
Why are we here? I think everybody innately understands that women, love, companionship, and sex are a critical part of a man's life. We all have or have had mothers, sisters, girlfriends, lovers, daughters. And though many consider it inadvisable, some of us even have wives and platonic female friends. These relationships are critical to our health and well being, and they each fulfill different needs that allow us to stay sane and functioning. One of our biggest needs is having fulfilling romantic relationships, and this is incredibly difficult in the modern age. I would argue that the biggest contribution of this area of the web is the collective wisdom on the forces of attraction that makes a sexual relationship happen, the proper behaviors that allow one to maintain a lover on advantageous terms, and why it is strongly advisable to stay out of a marital relationship.
Where does Mark Minter fit into all this?
Mark Minter held a unique place in the community. Since our views of relationships our mostly new-founded, heretical, and outside of the realm of polite discussion within Anglo culture, there aren't many people with a lifetime of perspective on our views of women. Mark Minter's role was that of an older, battle-tested kindred spirit who had seen it all - and the bulk of his experiences had been shaped by a dating environment where it was nearly impossible for a man to inform oneself of what was happening. Basically Mark was a living example of someone who was subjected, unconsciously, to the soul punishing forces of the female specie in modern society. Imagine how you would've turned out if there were no language to describe phenomena like oneitis, hypergamy, and the lover/provider distinction. To me, Mark provided us with that perspective- what could have happened to any one of us had there been no 'sphere. He also had the potential of giving us a perspective of what our romantic lives might be like as we age, as Father Time slowly nudges us out of the game.
So there is a sense of loss and Mark Minter's credibility is shot, and he'll probably be excommunicated by means of ridicule 'round these parts. It's one thing to evolve, to have a change of heart as Roosh seems to be doing, but I think most people agree that it's another thing to flagrantly go against strongly announced convictions in the face of what appears to be comically weak temptation. A red pill marriage? Haha get the fuck out of here!
I don't think any of us want to be like that, that kind of person, and it looks like he didn't deserve our respect. But this isn't the first time we've been wrong about somebody in our lives and more importantly, it won't be the last. I don't know about you guys, but I've been wrong about lovers, friends, and family- I've even been wrong about myself. Those stakes are a lot bigger. Regardless, there's still many amazing thinkers here, many exemplars, and good ideals to aspire to.
Personally, I still can't pull a 9. I still can't squat 300 lbs. I still don't like my mother. I still need to work harder and smarter in my career. I don't know about you but I'll keep cultivating my garden: watering plants, planting the right seeds, and pulling the weeds. We've lost one man's perspective, a guy who seemed inspirational, but like many times before, we were mistaken.
That's unfortunate, but I still have shit to do.
.
tl;dr- It's probably best to keep from frothing at the mouth.
There's a taxonomy of sorts in this part of the web.
Roosh, Rollo, and Roissy (who has slipped spectacularly) seem to be the most prominent. On a plane far below, there's a few influential others who come to mind like Krauser, MikeCF, and Dalrock. And then you have a handful of all-star commenters: Samseau, GBFM, Quintus Curtius and of course, the artist formerly known as Mark Minter.
In this community, as in any, some people wield more influence than others. This is a diverse group and everybody forms an identity. Roosh has planted himself as a nomadic, pensive womanizing bohemian. Rollo as a married man on the sidelines with a highly analytic ability for framing modern social & sexual dynamics. And Roissy as a wry, calculating, nihilistic seducer with a heavy touch of bitterness and racism.
Why are we here? I think everybody innately understands that women, love, companionship, and sex are a critical part of a man's life. We all have or have had mothers, sisters, girlfriends, lovers, daughters. And though many consider it inadvisable, some of us even have wives and platonic female friends. These relationships are critical to our health and well being, and they each fulfill different needs that allow us to stay sane and functioning. One of our biggest needs is having fulfilling romantic relationships, and this is incredibly difficult in the modern age. I would argue that the biggest contribution of this area of the web is the collective wisdom on the forces of attraction that makes a sexual relationship happen, the proper behaviors that allow one to maintain a lover on advantageous terms, and why it is strongly advisable to stay out of a marital relationship.
Where does Mark Minter fit into all this?
Mark Minter held a unique place in the community. Since our views of relationships our mostly new-founded, heretical, and outside of the realm of polite discussion within Anglo culture, there aren't many people with a lifetime of perspective on our views of women. Mark Minter's role was that of an older, battle-tested kindred spirit who had seen it all - and the bulk of his experiences had been shaped by a dating environment where it was nearly impossible for a man to inform oneself of what was happening. Basically Mark was a living example of someone who was subjected, unconsciously, to the soul punishing forces of the female specie in modern society. Imagine how you would've turned out if there were no language to describe phenomena like oneitis, hypergamy, and the lover/provider distinction. To me, Mark provided us with that perspective- what could have happened to any one of us had there been no 'sphere. He also had the potential of giving us a perspective of what our romantic lives might be like as we age, as Father Time slowly nudges us out of the game.
So there is a sense of loss and Mark Minter's credibility is shot, and he'll probably be excommunicated by means of ridicule 'round these parts. It's one thing to evolve, to have a change of heart as Roosh seems to be doing, but I think most people agree that it's another thing to flagrantly go against strongly announced convictions in the face of what appears to be comically weak temptation. A red pill marriage? Haha get the fuck out of here!
I don't think any of us want to be like that, that kind of person, and it looks like he didn't deserve our respect. But this isn't the first time we've been wrong about somebody in our lives and more importantly, it won't be the last. I don't know about you guys, but I've been wrong about lovers, friends, and family- I've even been wrong about myself. Those stakes are a lot bigger. Regardless, there's still many amazing thinkers here, many exemplars, and good ideals to aspire to.
Personally, I still can't pull a 9. I still can't squat 300 lbs. I still don't like my mother. I still need to work harder and smarter in my career. I don't know about you but I'll keep cultivating my garden: watering plants, planting the right seeds, and pulling the weeds. We've lost one man's perspective, a guy who seemed inspirational, but like many times before, we were mistaken.
That's unfortunate, but I still have shit to do.
.
Icarus
Ostrich
Is Mark Minter blogging at Marky Mark's Thoughts on Various Issues? I find their writing style similar in many ways. The blog in question was targeted by SPLC at the same time they targeted Roosh.
nek
Pelican
MikeCF said:
I see this dynamic play out in every MMA gym I've been in. A lot of the girls (not all) who join these gyms gravitate to them more so for the guys in the gym than the actual sport of MMA. But then again, women's lives really are all about relationships. Men get together and talk about all sorts of shit (women, politics, philosophy, cars, etc). Women talk about relationships mostly, and to a lesser extent, food, their houses (nesting instinct) and their pets (their "children). It's their all-encompassing interest in life.
On a separate note, and I think a poster above alluded to this, is that even though he might have "sold out", try to read Mark's stuff objectively. Even though he might have gone against his own advice, it doesn't make the advice necessarily wrong, and much of it still holds true. Some can teach and not do (Phil Jackson). Some can do and not teach (Isiah Thomas). Just because a person might not like the message, the messenger, or how the message is being conveyed doesn't mean the message is wrong.
Roosh said:
Seriously. I smell a rat. The whole thing is just a little too "perfect". The ultimate joke and defacement of the manosphere: blog posters congratulating some "chick" about her engagement on, of all sites, Chateau Heartiste.
This is the equivalent of a well respected Jezebel author writing an article saying, "Men really are better at everything and deserve to be exalted."
I think we've been had.
Mark's ex-wife leaves some comments on manboob:
I don't know what to believe right now, but our manosphere "innocence" has been violated.
:fuckthat2:
I don't know what to believe right now, but our manosphere "innocence" has been violated.
:fuckthat2:
arafat scarf
Robin
Holy shit this story is becoming fascinating!
There's a 2 month lag in between his supposed exwife's comments at manboobz and when all this shit exploded over the last 2 days. I don't think this is a joke and it looks like there might be many more layers to this onion.
After Rollo posted the manboobz link, the supposed bride-to-be had this to stay at Rollo's blog:
The entertainment is incredible - either as an elaborate hoax or something stranger than fiction.
edited to add: I found her linkedin profile, but i'm not posting it. It confirms the details from some of Minter's comments...
double edited to add: Yep that's her pic up there...
There's a 2 month lag in between his supposed exwife's comments at manboobz and when all this shit exploded over the last 2 days. I don't think this is a joke and it looks like there might be many more layers to this onion.
After Rollo posted the manboobz link, the supposed bride-to-be had this to stay at Rollo's blog:
The entertainment is incredible - either as an elaborate hoax or something stranger than fiction.
edited to add: I found her linkedin profile, but i'm not posting it. It confirms the details from some of Minter's comments...
double edited to add: Yep that's her pic up there...
Roosh said:
Don't be too quick to think that. Take the long view. Like any movement, there will be crackpots who need to be purged, and then the movement learns from it's mistakes and focuses and improves its message.
The manosphere is onto something big. I only discovered it several months ago. Every guy of every background that I pass long "red pill" knowledge too laps it up. It's the message the ideas that are the strength. Purging fringe characters like Minter will ultimately be good for the movement.
So I guess you can say he literally was a basement dweller troll.
I think the reason we got duped is because so many of us on this side of the manosphere aren't close to his age. How can guys 35 and under do a reality check on the writings of a 60 year old? His anti-marriage rants fit our model of the world, so we quickly accepted them as a sort of truth and validation of our beliefs.
What I like about the forum is that many guys are meeting each other, so the seed is already planted to prevent this from happening again. At the minimum, I will be looking for a "I met him... he exists" level of verification. Otherwise, I will believe nothing.
We're arriving at the point where if you want to be a prominent member of this community, you must be prepared to shake hands with others.
I think the reason we got duped is because so many of us on this side of the manosphere aren't close to his age. How can guys 35 and under do a reality check on the writings of a 60 year old? His anti-marriage rants fit our model of the world, so we quickly accepted them as a sort of truth and validation of our beliefs.
What I like about the forum is that many guys are meeting each other, so the seed is already planted to prevent this from happening again. At the minimum, I will be looking for a "I met him... he exists" level of verification. Otherwise, I will believe nothing.
We're arriving at the point where if you want to be a prominent member of this community, you must be prepared to shake hands with others.
Roosh said:
Looks like all of these comments are on the legit side.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/suzanne-minter-waldmann/8/725/a25
The only thing that doesn't fit in was that in one of Minter's essays he spoke about how he met his wife in NYC, not Texas. That's a big difference between each other's accounts.
On the other hand, her info about her children seems to match what Minter has said before. As to whether or not he's paid child support, I do not know. We do know that he went to South America for some time, as both Minter the man and Minter the ex-wife confirm it.
Just heard about this. Kind of dismayed...don't know what to think.
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