Meat eating / Vegetarianism in the current world

nagareboshi

Woodpecker
It seems like industrial, affordable meat-eating causes unnecessary exposure to toxic hormones, antibiotics, and other weird chemicals. On the other hand, there are stereotypes on the internet about how soy, fake meat, and other products are also bad for the human body.

What do you guys think? What is your "solution" to the conundrum of modern health and meat eating?

BTW, I did some cursory searches on this forum and could not find related threads. If you happen to know anything, please post here.
 

nagareboshi

Woodpecker
As a recent example, there is controversy about an additive used in American-Taiwan pork shipments: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-protests-idUSKBN28206H

President Tsai Ing-wen announced in August that the government would, from Jan. 1, allow imports of U.S. pork containing ractopamine, an additive that enhances leanness but is banned in the European Union and China, as well as U.S. beef more than 30 months old.

While welcomed in Washington, and removing a roadblock to a long sought after U.S. free trade deal for Taiwan, the KMT has strongly opposed the decision, tapping into public concern about food safety after several high-profile scandals in recent years.

KMT Chairman Johnny Chiang, elected in March to help turn around party fortunes after a trouncing in January’s presidential and parliamentary elections, called on Tsai to take part in a televised debate on the issue.

“Taiwanese pigs don’t eat ractopamine and yet you are asking Taiwanese people to? Does this make sense?” he told supporters.
Tsai’s government and her ruling Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), which has a large majority in parliament, says the decision brings the island into line with international norms, is not a safety threat and will boost Taiwan-U.S. ties.
 

Durden347

Robin
I don't think it hurts to go vegetarian or vegan temporarily if you are trying to correct a health issue. In the long run though, most people are better off with a balanced diet that includes animal flesh. There are some nutrients that you can only get with meat.

As for the chemicals and the GMOs, it is always better to eat something organic or wild caught.
 

kel

Ostrich
I was vegan for years, was about as healthy as one can be doing that, but it's just not an appropriate diet for humans. I now get about 80% of my calories from animal sources. I aim for grass fed, but more importantly I just do "natural" stuff. Eggs, ribeyes, a curry with fresh meat, veg, and spices. Natural is a hand wavy word, but I mean avoiding seed oils, preservatives, etc.

The fat soluble vitamins in animal products are crucial. Don't rely on what you see on the nutrition information on products. Just because something strictly speaking has however many milligrams of some vitamin or mineral as measured by blending it, putting it in solution, and extracting with a reagent doesn't mean that your body is going to get that many milligrams of it or that your body can convert that form of the vitamin into something it can use. Youtube is full of vegans obsessing over chronometer figures showing that they're getting so much of this or that vitamin, and yet they're still lethargic and weak and menopausal in their 20s. Plants alone simply are not an acceptable source of nutrients.
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
I believe veganism is antithetical to Christianity. God gave us the earth and the animals to enjoy and provide us sustenance. You cannot get adequate, bioavailable protein with plants unless you supplement with pea or some other fake product you would never consume in real quantities if it weren't for food processing of the 21st century. Unless you're gonna buy into the bullshit of the Game Changers (whose producers own a epa protein company) it's all marketing.

Stan Efferding and Charles Poliquin can cite multiple studies about how meat is good for you and tofu/soy will kill you with estrogen and give you tits.

We didn't make it to the top of the food chain to eat soy.
 

asdf

Robin
I'd worry about portion control and activity first. Theres just no way to be sedentary and be healthy. Just as well, theres no way to be healthy if you eat huge portions of good food. Factory farmed meat is safe, just remember to wash it and keep your portions in check. Your body can handle toxins, so you shouldnt be so anxious about keeping the body pure. Going about worrying about microdetails of whatever 1ppm carcinogen in your food is no different than being a germophobe or hypochondriac. Paying just 2-3 dollars extra per pound can up the quality alot. Eat everything veggies fruits breads beans nuts eggs rice fishes meats.

Also in your example, you mentioned pork. I tend to avoid high fat cuts of pork, doesnt make me feel good just my experience. Lean cut like pork tenderloin is much better. I also avoid dairy as a food group (fine if used for flavoring or snack) like milk and cheese. Drink water in place of any other liquid.
 

Nordwand

Kingfisher
To my amazement, there was an advert on one of the Sky channels last night, which appeared to be a combined effort by the meat and dairy industries, extolling the benefits of both. I was so taken aback, that I didn't look closely at the logo on the bottom right of the screen-hopefully it'll be shown again.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Veggies are healthier for you than anything and the most important part of your diet. Don’t buy into the fake masculinity projection of people saying eating meat makes you man or whatever dumb stuff they like to say. I went through a period where I stayed away from meat, I felt great but as others said it’s not really a sustainable diet and I do love meat so it’s best to have a balance.

But I know that’s not necessarily what you’re asking. You’re correct to be leery of soy and meat substitutes, not because of what therepresent societally but because of how they are produced and what they are made of.

Buy organic and buy direct locally if possible even if costs more, lots of small farms are starting to gear things towards the public as an extra source of income. Stay away from processed foods and mass produced food as much as you can but use common sense you can’t control everything. these things shouldn’t be a concern if you’re doing that.

When it comes to food I spend a lot of money on it and people have critisized me for that and my response is always “food is specifically the reason why I make money, I’m not putting garbage in my body it I can help it”. Don’t feel guilty about spending more for better food, at the core that is the whole point of even having money.

Short answer....eat better food even it costs more.
 

kel

Ostrich
Veggies are healthier for you than anything and the most important part of your diet.

This just isn't true. Vegetables have very little nutrition and what there is is generally of poor bioavalability. Just because the USDA label says it has 10% of your vitamin A for the day does not mean that you are getting anywhere close to that much nor that your body can process the form it exists in.

Vegetables are largely filler, which is fine if you're trying to lose weight (and you avoid the starchy ones), but if you take "healthy" to mean "nutritious" then no, vegetables are not particularly healthy. Decades ago someone found that people who ate non-starchy vegetables were often healthier than those who did not, which I'm sure was true enough in and of itself, but that idea has been blown way out of proportion to reach conclusions it in no way entailed, going as far as "Maximizing vegetable intake is good. More plant matter is better than less, up to and including eating 100% plant matter". This is now considered axiomatic though there is no reason to believe it, quite the opposite in fact.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
This just isn't true. Vegetables have very little nutrition and what there is is generally of poor bioavalability. Just because the USDA label says it has 10% of your vitamin A for the day does not mean that you are getting anywhere close to that much nor that your body can process the form it exists in.

Vegetables are largely filler, which is fine if you're trying to lose weight (and you avoid the starchy ones), but if you take "healthy" to mean "nutritious" then no, vegetables are not particularly healthy. Decades ago someone found that people who ate non-starchy vegetables were often healthier than those who did not, which I'm sure was true enough in and of itself, but that idea has been blown way out of proportion to reach conclusions it in no way entailed, going as far as "Maximizing vegetable intake is good. More plant matter is better than less, up to and including eating 100% plant matter". This is now considered axiomatic though there is no reason to believe it, quite the opposite in fact.


I wasn't referring to starches I was referring to green vegetables, please don't go around telling people they don't need green vegetables as a staple in their diet based on the idea that they have poor bioavailability.


I don't quite understand the mentality against vegetables around here, eating vegetables doesn't mean you're not a man. You can eat both vegetables and meat you know. I definitely do not prefer a salad over a steak but I will also definitely take both of them if it's an option and I really hope someone wouldn't try to make the argument that the steak is healthier for you then the salad.
 
Last edited:

kel

Ostrich
I don't quite understand the mentality against vegetables around here, eating vegetables doesn't mean you're not a man.
As far as I can see you're the only one who has suggested this.

I really hope someone wouldn't try to make the argument that the steak is healthier for you then the salad.
Absolutely, 100% no doubt, steak is far healthier (more nutritious) than a salad. Not even remotely close. A nice steak is one of the most nourishing foods you can possibly choose, after eggs, butter, and liver.
 

bucky

Ostrich
As far as I can see you're the only one who has suggested this.


Absolutely, 100% no doubt, steak is far healthier (more nutritious) than a salad. Not even remotely close. A nice steak is one of the most nourishing foods you can possibly choose, after eggs, butter, and liver.
A question, not just for you, but for everyone: how much more healthy is grass-fed beef than the normal commercially farmed stuff we get in the US? I hear different things and like with everything about nutrition, there doesn't seem to be much agreement.
 

yarqur

Sparrow
All I eat is low fat beef, and salmon. But I don't mind if someone will put some tomato and paprika and salad in the mix. People are too attached to this world worrying about crazy things. Only reason to live beyond 50 is to take care of your grandchildren if you have any.

and yet they're still lethargic and weak and menopausal in their 20s.
This.

We didn't make it to the top of the food chain to eat soy.
That is far more antithetical to Christianity than veganism. You would find evolution is a really "low IQ" idea if you did some research. Talk about "große Lüge".
 
Last edited:

JayR

Woodpecker
I went Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPB)/No Oil/No Nuts/No Avo after a heart disease diagnosis in 2017. I've told my story in the "Why is the Manosphere Anti-Vegan" and "Anybody tried a Plant-based Diet?" threads, so I won't rehash it again here except to say that not only is such a diet sustainable, it's healthy if done right. I have not been sick one time since making the change over 3 years ago and I'm not "lethargic and weak and menopausal" by any measure.

Yes, you have to supplement B12 if you eliminate meat entirely, and yes you've got to eat a lot of plants to meet your caloric needs (especially if you work out heavy/regularly), but it's sustainable and even recommended if you have (or want to avoid) heart disease, which is the #1 killer of men in the USA.

Vegetables have very little nutrition
You cannot get adequate, bioavailable protein with plants
Nonsense.

Nimai Delgado -- meat-free diet his entire life:

1609879206035.png
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
All I eat is low fat beef, and salmon. People are too attached to this world worrying about crazy things. Only reason to live beyond 50 is to take care of your grandchildren if you have any.


This.


That is also antithetical to Christianity. You would find evolution is a really low IQ idea if you did some research. Talk about "große Lüge".
Where in did you not see where I stated that God gave us dominion over the animals. Clearly you don't do well with delineation between idioms and literal statements..

Your presumption that I haven't researched evolution or that I believe in it is false. I do not believe in the evolutionary model presented in schools.

That notwithstanding, stating that our stomachs process food a certain way, that we are in the top of the food chain, does not imply that God is not the architect of our body. That is infact your inference, but not my implication when taken in-toto with the post at whole.

But thank you for disregarding the point of my comment only to latch on to one idiom at the end which you took out of context.

Yes, you have to supplement B12 if you eliminate meat entirely, and yes you've got to eat a lot of plants to meet your caloric needs (especially if you work out heavy/regularly), but it's sustainable and even recommended if you have (or want to avoid) heart disease, which is the #1 killer of men in the USA.



Nonsense.

Nimai Delgado -- meat-free diet his entire life:
Interindividual biogenetics are a major factor in metabolisms. Some people, based of of genetic make up respond differently to different diets. Surely we are not denying that genetic differences exist between groups? For instance look at how the Pima indians (who's genetic pool has historically been developed off of high meat diets) have done under a high fat high carb diet vs how the diets vary regarding carbohydrates in eastern Asian countries.

I can find you a person who has a 6 pack, is jacked, and eats nothing but burger king. But their blood work will probably be shit, and even so, they are not the norm, but rather the anomoly.

In General, most people should eat more Vegetables, but you still need protein. The fake news about cancer and meat have been debunked with other studies showing that Animal Protein in conjunction with Vegetables cancel out the "carcinogenic" effects of high meat diets. If you are eating Pink Goo from Taco bell, and expecting to be healthy you're ignorant. If you are eating freshly slaughtered beef, from a local source, then you're going to be more inclined towards being healthy.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
As far as I can see you're the only one who has suggested this.


Absolutely, 100% no doubt, steak is far healthier (more nutritious) than a salad. Not even remotely close. A nice steak is one of the most nourishing foods you can possibly choose, after eggs, butter, and liver.


Okay, I'm not going to argue because we all know what the underlying argument is here. Vegetables have come to represent feminism, soy boys and globohomo so eating meat and no veggies means you're a big man....rah rah rah.

They're just food.....food that your body wants and needs.

Do yourself a favor buy a box of power greens next time you go grocery shopping and stuff a handful in your mouth every morning. Your body will thank you in a couple weeks. My circle is all athletes and pro lifters, I've never met a single one that could tell someone with a straight face they don't need vegetables and every single one of them eats all the veggies they can handle.

I didn't say don't eat meat I love meat, but to actually believe that meat is healthier for you than vegetables is just convincing yourself of what you need to believe, it's the same as someone who convinces themselves that they shouldn't eat meat.

Life needs balance
 
Top