Meat eating / Vegetarianism in the current world

Pantheon

Sparrow
Orthodox
Modern veganism is an eating disorder that is rationalized as a virtue, the same way covid-19 has given free reign for hypochondriacs to indulge in their phobias. In many ways, secular society is an open air asylum. Modern westerners can be extremely picky about food, and often show irrational aversions to certain textures. This sort of pickiness about food is naturally more common in children, but usually adults grow out of them as they mature. Nowadays we seem to have an increased retention of childish traits persisting into adulthood, such anthropomorphizing animals. Ideological vegans are the sorts of people who would be willing to sacrifice their grandma's traditional home cooking or a thousand years of Italian and French cuisine in order to get everyone on pills.

Yet, from a spiritual perspective, eating is not just about putting the "right" nutritions into your body. It is the act of putting together multiple ingredients into one meal, and sharing it with others. It is about learning to appreciate delicacies that seem 'off' like blue cheese, by developing your taste buds to pick up the nuances. It is about the joy of catching a fish and cooking it. The morality of food is not so much "what" you eat as how you eat. Food alone does not make us healthy, as the dietists seems to imply - suggesting that our bodies are unconscious machines. Fasting is as important as eating - since having an empty stomach is not equivalent of being hungry.

Veganism is a rejection of the carnal, thus a rejection of the body, and ultimately a rejection of nature - of not being able to cope with the realities of nature, seeking to avoid them by solipsism, urban seclusion and meat substitutes.
 
Yeah I've talked with vegan/vegetarian friends/acquaintances, basically salads feel very unfulfilling and don't really sate your hunger. But if you already eat a lot of meat then you aren't as hungry or in need of protein or nutrients. Therefore salad is much more of a meat eating/meat heavy omnivore thing than a vegan or perhaps even a vegetarian thing.

Salads but missing out on Mushrooms, seaweed like Spirulina and Algae?
 

JohnQThomas

Woodpecker
Veganism is a rejection of the carnal, thus a rejection of the body, and ultimately a rejection of nature - of not being able to cope with the realities of nature, seeking to avoid them by solipsism, urban seclusion and meat substitutes.
Kind of like joining a monastery or becoming a hermit, then?
 

Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
I think factory farming is definitely a problem. You don't have to be a herbal tea swirling hippy to see that. Through our greed we are not treating God's creatures with the care and respect that we ought to, they have just become another commodity, mass produced and done as cost effectively as possible. If you follow the fasts then you can afford to spend the money that you save on meat on fast days on buying better quality meat for the days on which you do consume it.

I can understand the impulse behind why some people become vegan, because it is sad to see intelligent creatures like pigs all penned in together with no freedom to roam, fed whatever, and pumped with antibiotics and so forth. However I don't think 'factory farming is bad' is the same as saying 'all meat is evil'. If an animal is well fed, protected from predators, and given a relatively suffer-free life, I'd posit that it's a fair exchange to painlessly slaughter them and eat them in exchange.
 

SeaEagle

Sparrow
@Lawrence87 Exactly, couldn't have written a better argument myself!

Another hypocrisy is the "vegan leather" textile which is a highly manipulated plastic. Plastics are likely much worse on the environment at large, over time, than vegetable tanned leather. Not to mention how much more durable it is.
 

SimpleMan

Sparrow
I follow the clean/unclean animal approach. After reading why pigs are not healthy due to their biology (+ factory farming), and a random article describing that when cannibals in southern american were forced to stop eating humans, they moved to pork because apparently it tasted the same. It was also the animals demons were put into by Jesus. After learning that stopped I eating pork, and or the lower based sea foods. Lobsters used to be fed to criminals in french prisons and later became a fancy food somehow. I don't think this is a Sin, just good advice from God.

I don't judge others for eating it or vegans in general. Some judgement for feeding kids only vegan though, as it dose not help brain development - we need animal fat and good cholesterol for that.
 
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Viktor Zeegelaar

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Vegetarianism in this age is an interesting topic. I grew up vegetarian as my father was vegetarian and til this day I don't eat meat, maybe a hamburger once a year in a restaurant as an exception. And you know what, I don't miss it at all as it has always been the case for me. I eat lots of dairy instead of meat, eggs at dinner for example. The idea of my father was mercy for animals, which I find a very honorable idea, also a Christian idea to some extent. Of course men also has dominion over creation, so I'm not against meat eating per se, but I do take offense with the dire straits the meat industry puts animals in. The problem today is that veganism/vegetarianism has been weaponized along with all cultural developments to weaken men especially, soy them up, deprive them of vitamins, make them more feminine, cling status to it (I'm such a good person) and make it about an overextended version of mercy (plants have feelings too!). In that case, people sadly fall for the global agenda to weaken them.
 

Pantheon

Sparrow
Orthodox
I think factory farming is definitely a problem. You don't have to be a herbal tea swirling hippy to see that. Through our greed we are not treating God's creatures with the care and respect that we ought to, they have just become another commodity, mass produced and done as cost effectively as possible. If you follow the fasts then you can afford to spend the money that you save on meat on fast days on buying better quality meat for the days on which you do consume it.

I can understand the impulse behind why some people become vegan, because it is sad to see intelligent creatures like pigs all penned in together with no freedom to roam, fed whatever, and pumped with antibiotics and so forth. However I don't think 'factory farming is bad' is the same as saying 'all meat is evil'. If an animal is well fed, protected from predators, and given a relatively suffer-free life, I'd posit that it's a fair exchange to painlessly slaughter them and eat them in exchange.

When the Muslims kill an animal, they use an ancient method of cutting its artery which makes the animal unconscious in a matter of seconds and emptied of blood. From their own claims, it is the quickest way to kill an animal without artificial means.

There has been a lot of fuss about this in the west, that it's 'unnecesarily' cruel and so on. That can be debated, but there is a wider point that secular society misses. The point of halal slaughter is that it is a ritualistic act done in name of God which dignifies it and also blesses the animal.

No such spiritual factor is at play in secular factory farming. Even if they might feel less physical pain, the animals suffer a lot psychologically before they die. From what I've read the medieval Islamic way involves calming the animal before you kill it and it is forbidden to kill it near another animal (so it can't smell blood).

In order to return dignity to slaughtering and eating animals, food in itself needs to have a sacred significance, rather than a merely technically nutritional one.

Life is not sacred for the modern materialistic world (which will not admit its own ungodliness) and thereby attains a utilitarian value (maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain).
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
You could do nothing but drink olive oil and eat rice cakes and look like that guy with enough exogenous hormones.

That guy trains his tail off to look like that, steroids or no steroids. If you’re going to make sarcastic comments just for effect at least make some with sense….
 
There are a lot of ex-vegans on youtube that fixed their health issues by going back to eating meat, fish, eggs and dairy. Though the guy is a litte out there on some points Goatis/Sv3rige on youtube has some very interesting interviews with ex-vegans where they go trough all the health problems they had while being vegan. He also have some disturbing compelation videos of people before/after veganism. I'll post some vids for your convenience:


I don't know if veganism is caused by mental illness or if people are fooled into it and then they get mentally ill from it. I suspect it's probably a bit of both. One thing is for sure, they slowly degenerate as they continue down the path of veganism. That's why it is pushed in my view, because it makes people weak, sick and infertile.
 
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Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
That guy trains his tail off to look like that, steroids or no steroids. If you’re going to make sarcastic comments just for effect at least make some with sense….

Not necessarily. I know guys who bench 445 who never did steroids and trained less than a year. I know guys who bench 3 plates and never trained a day in their lives. I know guys who train their asses off and theyre still small. There is a subset of the population that can literally eat all the garbage processed food imaginable and stay ripped with zero effort.

You build more muscle with gear and zero training than you do with optimal training and no gear. You build even more muscle than that with gear and bad training.

No sarcasm in my comment, it's true.
 
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FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Not necessarily. I know guys who bench 445 who never did steroids and trained less than a year. I know guys who bench 3 plates and never trained a day in their lives. I know guys who train their asses off and theyre still small. There is a subset of the population that can literally eat all the garbage processed food imaginable and stay ripped with zero effort.

You build more muscle with gear and zero training than you do with optimal training and no gear. You build even more muscle than that with gear and bad training.

No sarcasm in my comment, it's true.


You are taking exaggerated extreme examples and applying them as common place. You’re not going to look like that guy without working hard for it in addition to the AAS. To just brush his physique off as built by steroids sounds like insecurity….
 

Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
You are taking exaggerated extreme examples and applying them as common place. You’re not going to look like that guy without working hard for it in addition to the AAS. To just brush his physique off as built by steroids sounds like insecurity….
Insecure? Nah.
Holding up an extreme would be saying a man at peak physical condition got there with hard training and veganism, ignoring the fact that his genetics allowed him to build any muscle at all on what is essentially a starvation diet for slaves. The man could have eaten any sane diet and gotten there.

Vegans can load up on starches, vegetable oils, or both, much like the average american.

And also like the average american, the average vegan is built like a twig or a blimp and is mentally ill.

The outliers are the ones that do fine on veganism. Most quit because their brain tells them to eat meat or die, like any organism that requires animal fat to survive.

Every cardiovascular disease under the sun is caused by consumption of vegetable oils fit only for lubricating machinery. Every digestive ailment from kidney stones to colitis to hemmhoroids is caused by overconsumption of fiber.

Turn of the 19th century Americans (90+% were farmers) got 40+% of their daily calories from animal products and they peeled every vegetable, even carrots. They knew if you ate 3k calories a day from potatoes and whatever else and you ate the peel, you would plug up and die. Everyone I know (old farmers) who lived past 90 ate half a stick of butter a day or more. This veganism shit is a fad.
 

Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
You are taking exaggerated extreme examples and applying them as common place. You’re not going to look like that guy without working hard for it in addition to the AAS. To just brush his physique off as built by steroids sounds like insecurity….
Insecure? Nah.
Holding up an extreme would be saying a man at peak physical condition got there with hard training and veganism, ignoring the fact that his genetics allowed him to build any muscle at all on what is essentially a starvation diet for slaves. The man could have eaten any sane diet and gotten there.

Vegans can load up on starches, vegetable oils, or both, much like the average american.

And also like the average american, the average vegan is built like a twig or a blimp and is mentally ill.

The outliers are the ones that do fine on veganism. Most quit because their brain tells them to eat meat or die, like any organism that requires animal fat to survive.

Every cardiovascular disease under the sun is caused by consumption of vegetable oils fit only for lubricating machinery. Every digestive ailment from kidney stones to colitis to hemmhoroids is caused by overconsumption of fiber.

Turn of the 19th century Americans (90+% were farmers) got 40+% of their daily calories from animal products and they peeled every vegetable, even carrots. They knew if you ate 3k calories a day from potatoes and whatever else and you ate the peel, you would plug up and die. Everyone I know (old farmers) who lived past 90 ate half a stick of butter a day or more. This veganism shit is a fad.
 

Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
You are taking exaggerated extreme examples and applying them as common place. You’re not going to look like that guy without working hard for it in addition to the AAS. To just brush his physique off as built by steroids sounds like insecurity….
Insecure? Nah.
Holding up an extreme would be saying a man at peak physical condition got there with hard training and veganism, ignoring the fact that his genetics allowed him to build any muscle at all on what is essentially a starvation diet for slaves. The man could have eaten any sane diet and gotten there.

Vegans can load up on starches, vegetable oils, or both, much like the average american.

And also like the average american, the average vegan is built like a twig or a blimp and is mentally ill.

The outliers are the ones that do fine on veganism. Most quit because their brain tells them to eat meat or die, like any organism that requires animal fat to survive.

Every cardiovascular disease under the sun is caused by consumption of vegetable oils fit only for lubricating machinery. Every digestive ailment from kidney stones to colitis to hemmhoroids is caused by overconsumption of fiber.

Turn of the 19th century Americans (90+% were farmers) got 40+% of their daily calories from animal products and they peeled every vegetable, even carrots. They knew if you ate 3k calories a day from potatoes and whatever else and you ate the peel, you would plug up and die. Everyone I know (old farmers) who lived past 90 ate half a stick of butter a day or more. This veganism shit is a fad.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Insecure? Nah.
Holding up an extreme would be saying a man at peak physical condition got there with hard training and veganism, ignoring the fact that his genetics allowed him to build any muscle at all on what is essentially a starvation diet for slaves. The man could have eaten any sane diet and gotten there.

Vegans can load up on starches, vegetable oils, or both, much like the average american.

And also like the average american, the average vegan is built like a twig or a blimp and is mentally ill.

The outliers are the ones that do fine on veganism. Most quit because their brain tells them to eat meat or die, like any organism that requires animal fat to survive.

Every cardiovascular disease under the sun is caused by consumption of vegetable oils fit only for lubricating machinery. Every digestive ailment from kidney stones to colitis to hemmhoroids is caused by overconsumption of fiber.

Turn of the 19th century Americans (90+% were farmers) got 40+% of their daily calories from animal products and they peeled every vegetable, even carrots. They knew if you ate 3k calories a day from potatoes and whatever else and you ate the peel, you would plug up and die. Everyone I know (old farmers) who lived past 90 ate half a stick of butter a day or more. This veganism shit is a fad.


You’re talking about veganism, heart attacks and the 19th century…..sounds great cool no argument here.

What I’m saying is the guy works hard in the gym, it’s not just steroids as you dismissed it as regardless of what he eats.
 
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