Men paying for weddings

[N°6]

Not trying to be flip; you're a very accomplished poster. But to answer your and the OP's question: Yes, men pay. This started when couples started marrying older: A 22 yr old won't be able to pay for the wedding and daddy, who is at his peak earning power, will pay. But when the groom is 36 and the bride is 34 and the father of the bride is nearly 70, its not fair to ask the old dude to pay. And since the unwritten rule of all things women is that some man must pay the bill, that leaves the groom.

I take the point regarding marriages involving older people that was historically the case.

Had women paid for their own weddings, this would have been a natural evolution from tradition to modern given that they are apparently so accomplished and older when they marry. But no, the groom has to pay for his bride's financial independence from her father - it creates another compound effect of wealth transfer from the man.

 

[N°6]

How much time do you spend on THIS planet? Just kidding. In my experience, "joint" savings = the guys savings since she spends everything she makes on nail salon visits, shoes, dinners out, and $6 starbucks lattes. And "obvious salary gap" is an ancient phrase translated from the original Aramaic and which loosely translated means "every heterosexual relationship under the sun".

:lol:

Yup. Woman seeks equality with a man of greater status - read - she seeks to equalise such a man by applying the rule, 'your money is ours and mine is my own'.

 

[Feisbook Control]

Very insightful post Feisbook Control! Thanks for sharing that cultural insight into Taiwanese marriage practices!

Curious about the stripper tradition in weddings and specially funerals! Like for real, during funerals people would hire strippers? Could you share some insights as to the reasons behind this?

Is it the same in HKG and China? Maybe TravelerKai can chip in on that topic as he is THE China expert in here.

In some cultures in Asia but also in the Middle East, the bride and her family pay the engagement party, which can be quiet big and expensive and the groom and his family pay for the wedding. This is a way where both are contributing financially.

Very interesting, if not outright fascinating topic!

Basically, as far as I can tell, in Taiwan, everything comes down to one of six things (or a combination thereof): food, money, luck, face, guanxi (connections/relationships) or spirits/ghosts, though not necessarily in that order. In this case, it's about the spirits.

Here is an article about it. Here is a video. I've never actually seen strippers here in the seven and a half years I've been living here. I currently live in a pretty rural part of the country, so I am surprised I haven't seen it here at some point. I think it's kept under wraps these days because it's both illegal and considered gauche.

As far as I can tell, it's specifically a Taiwanese cultural practice, though I couldn't say for sure.

Another wedding custom is giving out free cigarettes and betel nut (which is really disgusting, although it too is usually sold by scantily clad women, see here).

Zelcorpion: Rest assured, I am sure those people in other cultures know exactly what's what and who gave what. Perhaps they don't keep a physical ledger, but I'm sure more than one person keeps a mental ledger. It does seem really crass to Westerners the way Taiwanese do things, but you get used to it, and you see that in many ways, they're a very practical people, if quite materialistic. It makes more sense than getting three toasters.

 

[The Father]

In Taiwan, and I am sure it is similar in other countries, the giving of cash at weddings then ties the receiver into attending other people's weddings (and thus, giving money). In my father-in-law's case, he was/is expected to attend the weddings of the children of all of the people he invited to my wedding. Those people will also be obligated to attend the wedding of my wife's younger brother in the future. Indeed, my wife and I are in a similar situation with her former classmates, etc. So, when people say that they make money from their weddings, they don't really. They receive the money in a lump sum and then pay it back periodically (which is an advantage, obviously).

In Taiwan, this is actually accounted for in a ledger. At our wedding, one of my wife's sisters and someone else (an aunt, I think), had the job of sitting at a table at the entrance. Everyone who arrived presented their red envelope (with money) and had their names recorded. The money was counted beneath/behind the desk and recorded beside their names. Likewise, there was also a ledger of people who had helped (including the people collecting the money), and at the end, they were given cash in red envelopes by my wife and me. It's really mercenary in Taiwan. Anyway, the ledger is still around somewhere. My wife was one of the first of her university classmates to get married, but periodically one of them (who might not have spoken to her since then) lets her know that he or she is getting married and my wife (at least) is expected to go. If she can't go, she is still expected to send a red envelope (albeit for a lesser amount, since she wouldn't be eating their food). It is a debt. We didn't really make that money.

Oh for fuck's sake - a bloody ledger !? The cultures I mentioned had nothing of that sort. If you make it like that I would rather pay for the wedding myself - thank you.

Besides - I am not going to get married unless it's a billionairess or I am a billionaire and don't give a shit, so I don't care about any customs anyway.

Hmmm....a ledger...this gives me an idea! A pussy ledger! Every time I pay her cell phone bill, buy her a car, etc, her ledger gets hit. And every time I get a BJ, it gets credited. IF HER ACCOUNT IS OVER-DRAWN, its time for me to "collect"

 

[Texas_Tryhard]

Traditionally, the bride's family pays for the wedding. This was the case until at least the 1970s. It's funny how this custom has been effectively abolished and forgotten.

This is really my point. Most women demand a traditional wedding, subject to the traditional provision of a ring which would feed a family in the gem's home country for years.

Yet when it comes to paying for the self-indulgent day, tradition is quickly shelved.

We hear so much about how successful women are these days but nothing about modernising tradition which would mean they pay for the wedding day out of their professional success.

And by traditional, in the case of the bolded text, the appropriate term is "since 1938 when a diamond company tricked everyone into thinking diamonds engagement rings mattered". This drives me insane. The worst part is that even girls that know about this and agree that it's stupid still can't help themselves and want a diamond ring to show off to their friends. A woman's life truly revolves around validation.

Why would you ever marry one?

 

[SlickyBoy]

From that article - "British" financiers got worried - ...uh, yeah - like the Rothchilds, he means.

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

And by traditional, in the case of the bolded text, the appropriate term is "since 1938 when a diamond company tricked everyone into thinking diamonds engagement rings mattered". This drives me insane. The worst part is that even girls that know about this and agree that it's stupid still can't help themselves and want a diamond ring to show off to their friends. A woman's life truly revolves around validation.

Why would you ever marry one?

The diamond crap is a scam of course. The diamond finds in Russia alone are enough for 14000 years of consumption at current rates. Yeah - you heard it right - 14.000 years - and that is just Russian supplies - never mind what De Beers has and what we do not even know. Diamonds should be about as expensive as Svarovski crystals.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/18/russian-diamond-smorgasbord

As far as tradition went - in the past - even 100 years ago weddings were rather simple for most people. Yes - in some countries men had to have some money or income to marry - why men were sometimes end 20s or even end 30s before finding a teen bride. That served the purpose that they showed that they could support a family and be a good provider. But back then a man had a lot of power and respect in marriage. Now all you've got is ridicule & contempt and are still expected to pay like it's 1850 - and you had a young, slim and relatively sheltered bride that stayed with you until death in most cases. Also women outnumbered men in the ages of 18-25 in practically all Western countries. The past essentially looked like a conservative Ukraine with even better demographic ratios.

Fuck that - marriage in the current form is dead for most men - the few Red Pill Alphas who are able to navigate the shark-infested waters are an exception.

 

[MrLemon]

The legal purpose of getting married is for the woman to get legal possession the man's assets and future earnings. That's not debatable. That's what marriage IS. Marriage was invented for the sole purpose of attaching a man's money, food or whatever for the woman and their children if any.

In the modern US, the average wife will get $1.5 million dollars from her husband over the life of their marriage. She will get ALL the benefit of that money, she will spend it, she will use it to buy stuff for herself.

So, my wife's family paid for 100% of our wedding, except the night-before party, which my family paid for. It is a sign of how red-pill my wife's family is, that they never would have even asked my family to contribute. It never would have occurred to them.

Also note that I had (very) significant money in the bank when we got married from an inheritance. We have spent almost all of it raising kids and buying a house.

So yes guys, you are giving her your money, don't ever for a second believe otherwise.

 

[jimukr104]

In the modern US, the average wife will get $1.5 million dollars from her husband over the life of their marriage. She will get ALL the benefit of that money, she will spend it, she will use it to buy stuff for herself.

That doesn't make sense. The avg man won't even make much more than that figure in his lifetime.

My 'wedding' cost 10 bucks!

 

[SlickyBoy]

Funny how homosexuals fight for the "rights" they're missing out when it comes to marriage. Alas, one does not gain rights in a marriage, one most definitely loses them. Idiots, all.

 

[Parlay44]

Funny how homosexuals fight for the "rights" they're missing out when it comes to marriage. Alas, one does not gain rights in a marriage, one most definitely loses them. Idiots, all.

Gay marriage is an epic troll. I'm amazed it's gotten as much support as it has.

 

[Feisbook Control]

Not to completely derail this thread, but I have another amusing Taiwanese wedding story.

It's not uncommon for geomancers and soothsayers -- yes, you read that correctly -- to be consulted for any special occasion, including weddings. My wife's family is not too superstitious, but they still consulted one. It turned out that the auspicious time to hold many of the pre-wedding ceremonies was 11:00am. The timing of that makes me think that was bullshit, given that the luncheon began at 12:00. That said, my sister-in-law ended up having to have her wedding on a Sunday evening because her husband's family were hardcore superstitious and consulted a serious soothsayer.

So anyway, there are various rituals conducted (including something with a chicken -- before you ask, we used a substitute rubber novelty chicken*). At 11:00, I was supposed to put the ring on my wife's finger. I was sceptical about how that was a Chinese tradition, given that it's a relatively recent Western tradition, but whatever. However, I wasn't doing it quickly enough, so some silly old cow who was a family neighbour jumped to her feet and snatched the ring off me. She then proceeded to jam it onto my wife's middle finger. A struggle ensued between the old woman and me, with her insisting it belonged there, and me insisting it didn't. Meanwhile, my poor wife was trying her hardest not to show any emotion (which supposedly would have been inauspicious), but was freaking out. I looked down at my wife's finger, and it was beginning to change colour and swell up. I then said that I didn't care what kind of tradition it was, if we didn't get the ring off immediately, we would be paying a trip to the emergency room to take it off and that definitely would be inauspicious.

The look on my sister's face throughout the entire situation was priceless.

*One thing that Taiwanese are really into is words or phrases that sound like other words or phrases. They do this with Mandarin also, but it's particularly prevalent with the Taiwanese language (which is often the mother tongue of older people, and is still often the mother tongue of people in the south and east, some of whom don't learn to speak Mandarin until they go to school). So, certain things are considered lucky, or are considered to bring you wealth because they are homophones with words that mean luck or wealth. Thus, in Taiwanese, "carry a chicken" sounds like "start a family".

 

[Paracelsus]

Not to completely derail this thread, but I have another amusing Taiwanese wedding story.

It's not uncommon for geomancers and soothsayers -- yes, you read that correctly -- to be consulted for any special occasion, including weddings. My wife's family is not too superstitious, but they still consulted one. It turned out that the auspicious time to hold many of the pre-wedding ceremonies was 11:00am. The timing of that makes me think that was bullshit, given that the luncheon began at 12:00. That said, my sister-in-law ended up having to have her wedding on a Sunday evening because her husband's family were hardcore superstitious and consulted a serious soothsayer.

So anyway, there are various rituals conducted (including something with a chicken -- before you ask, we used a substitute rubber novelty chicken*).

Man, I've heard of women with vibrators shaped like dolphins or rabbits, but I have to give you ten hardcore points for wearing a novelty chicken as a rubber on your wedding day. That's fucked up.

 

[Parlay44]

As much as I enjoyed reading the Taiwanese stories above ...it makes me cringe at the same time. All that wedding obligation through debt bullshit kind of forces you to stay put. What if you decided to leave Taiwan and move to California or Iceland or Zimbabwe to start a new life? You can't be expected to maintain ties to everyone and fly back 10 times a year for wedding obligations. I guess I'll always be a loner. It's the only lifestyle that works for me.