"MGTOW''

[Vitriol]

You see, what makes a man is much more complex than we think. He is not only shaped by those around him, but by those who came before him. People who took pride in their nation, their culture and their reputation. It's not only about you and it never was and never will be. You owe your full effort to your PEOPLE. The fact that MGTOW is becoming so popular shows how fucking lazy and selfish we've become, and how much our culture has crumbled.

Taking pride in your nation and culture is a concept taken to an extreme by 19th century nationalism that has essentially been prohibited since WW2 ended because the fear in mainstream culture is that anyone who does so will become like the Nazis. I don't think these ideals are bad on their own, but I'm not sure how you expect any man, regardless of how successful he is, to accomplish this in most of the developed countries in the world in 2014. Even if you're very successful and in good physical health, the women around you aren't held to the same standard and will be given a legal advantage over you that cannot be bypassed.

Anyone who buys into the bullshit that men need to be chasing women or committed to a woman for their entire lives needs to research the concept of the Feminine Imperative that is outlined on the Rational Male blog: http://therationalmale.com/category/the-feminine-imperative/

Why do you think in a place like the U.S. guys who are virgins past the age of 20 basically get relegated to the same social status as child molesters? Because it's obvious that they haven't been devoting a significant amount of time and resources to pleasing women, which is the most grave offense.

 

[Kingsley Davis]

MGTOW is just another symptom of a decaying culture. This is male hamsterism at its worst.

A quick cursory glance at any MGTOW forum will reveal that most of these people are not strong men forging their own path. It's quite the contrary. The Internet basically allowed all the weak men who lost out in the system our forefathers created to get together and blame society for their failures.

You see, what makes a man is much more complex than we think. He is not only shaped by those around him, but by those who came before him. People who took pride in their nation, their culture and their reputation. It's not only about you and it never was and never will be. You owe your full effort to your PEOPLE. The fact that MGTOW is becoming so popular shows how fucking lazy and selfish we've become, and how much our culture has crumbled.

And as for the comments way back about the term "loser." Men can be losers, because men are supposed to LEAD. If they can't lead, then they work hard to prove they aren't useless. Back in the day, dead weight became exactly that...dead weight. Leeches got offed, and communities became stronger as a result. If you're wasting the gift of life under the guise of "not buying into the system," then you get no respect from me.

If you subscribe to the MGTOW movement and you're one of the exceptions, then I apologize. For the rest, try to imagine when you're on your death bed with only a few breaths left, and you reflect back on such a selfish, wasted life...Just think about that for a second. Contribute to the community. It's not all about you.

Fuck my community. My deceased father would agree with my sentiment from his grave since everything he predicted came to pass.

"For a man who wants to make a profession of good in all regards must come to ruin among so many who are not good." - Niccolo Machiavelli

 

[DonJuanBrown]

But community doesn't mean your government. It means the people around you. The people you care about.

I realize there are some MGTOW guys who use this philosophy to better themselves and their loved ones. But for the "Ghost" sub-section, or the rest of the anti-social types that flock to this movement, they are wastes of oxygen. Using the example someone used before...it's okay to like porn and anime, but to resign yourself to a life of porn and anime shouldn't be viewed as "going your own way." Let's be real, these guys were going that way long before they found MGTOW. The difference is they have a community to encourage this behavior now. Before it was a vice, now it's a "quest."

 

[Bill]

"waste of oxygen", that´s not mgtow it´s mgf, men go fascist. I thing yeah MGTOW is very red pill and it´s a low risk version of it mostly. Total selfishness. Is there something more great?

 

[iknowexactly]

Cost-benefit doesn't work for me in America.. even if I gamed the shit outta dem bitches, the marriage, kids and exposure to child support which would result in my success would lead to failure.

There's not enough salt in the world to make that pretzel logic palatable.

 

[Bill]

Same with me. This winter I am going to check out the mythtic poosy paradies. But as a kind of part time mgtow I have a bad conscience to spend so much money for traveling that is for women. But the call of nature is so strong. I think that I think that I still love them whores to much.

 

[cardguy]

"There's not enough salt in the world to make that pretzel logic palatable."

THAT IS GREAT WRITING THERE!

 

[WD-40]

Cost-benefit doesn't work for me in America.. even if I gamed the shit outta dem bitches, the marriage, kids and exposure to child support which would result in my success would lead to failure.

I agree. Trying to find a marriage quality woman in the West is like thinking you will be the guy to win at three card monte because you are not like the other chumps.

 

[Icarus]

I agree. Trying to find a marriage quality woman in the West is like thinking you will be the guy to win at three card monte because you are not like the other chumps.

Stop looking for a wife: you won’t find one (2010)

As I look back on my life, I realize that one of the biggest misconceptions I had when I was younger was that wives actually existed. Like many men, I learned the hard way that they do not, and now I realize I’d simply been scammed. Far too many men have fallen victim to this con, and it’s about time that we put some effort into eliminating it.

First, what is a wife? As many of us see it, a wife is a female who partners with a man and provides intimacy and support, and who contributes to the well-being of a family. Above all else, she is devoted to the family, and will sacrifice time, effort and even desire to hold it together. In short, she is the complementary image of a husband, with whom she cooperates in furtherance of this family ideal.

Such a naïve, flawed view of contemporary women came from a general lack of understanding about what they are, and ultimately from a projection of our own masculine attitudes about what is good and desirable in this world.

 

[Kingsley Davis]

@ DJWater420 I knew what you meant.

 

[cardguy]

I first heard about TFL a couple of months ago.

Sandman has a great overview of the subject above.

I am a big fan of Sandman - he is the best video blogger on MGTOW issues in the manosphere.

It is important that people don't confuse TFL with MGTOW. They are very different things. One is a positive mindset and one is a paranoid negative one.

Still - I have some sympathy for TFL. I feel they are people who are slowly devloping a MGTOW mindset but haven't gone the whole way.

But the reason I have respect for TFL is because women hate them so much. There is nothing women hate more than guys who cannot get laid. And as soon as guys identify themselves as such - women want to see them rounded up and thrown in prison. In case they go George Sodini and start shooting women up.

As such - I don't want to jump on board by attacking these guys (even though that is my instinct) since it means playing into the hands of women who see guys who cannot get laid as untermenschen.

An important part of MGTOW for me is removing the power from women to define which guys are acceptable and which guys are creepy.

I stopped playing by those rules a long time ago...

 

[WD-40]

It is important that people don't confuse TFL with MGTOW. They are very different things. One is a positive mindset and one is a paranoid negative one.

I think they are the same thing actually, it is mostly a question of the adherent's native SMP rank.

IMO, the TFL are genuine omegas and the MGTOW comprises all of the other men who have been disenfranchised by prevailing SMP conditions, all the way up to upper betas and beyond - including men who in the past never would have had problems with attracting and keeping women. The upper ranges of the MGTOW spectrum then gradually shade off into KGTOW/sigma territory.

 

[cardguy]

MGTOW are kinda' chilled out about things.

TFL seem angry.

That is an important difference for me.

 

[RexImperator]

Roosh mentioned in his recent DC thread how some guys might become MGTOW without knowing the term or being aware of it. I guess that would have described me in some ways, before I was made aware, but I'm now trying to pull myself out of it.

 

[WD-40]

I'm not saying there are no fundamental differences between a TFL and a KGTOW, all I am arguing is that they are opposing extremes on the same continuum. A TFL lives in a black iron prison built out of the powder kegs of his own emotions: narcissistic rage, frustration, oppression, loneliness, and impotence. Whereas a KGTOW is emotionally balanced, fundamentally a sane and whole person who may not happen to be very attractive to most women, but he has male agency. And he has apatheia - not the dark apathy of the TFL that burns under the surface like a cauldron of boiling tar, but the serenity of the Stoic, free and bright and clear like dawn on the mountain.

 

[RexImperator]

I would agree with that more or less. I have so much more inner peace in my life now.

 

[cardguy]

I am not attractive to women - as is true of 99% of guys.

So at first I was interested in PUA type skillz.

But then I realised that actually being attractive to women wasn't that important to me. Since I wasn't buying what they were selling in any case. Apart from my interaction with hookers of course.

So - it is a useful thing to remember that MGTOW guys tend to be in the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to attracting women.

But - it is strange. Even if I did become super attractive to women - I would never want to hook up with one.

A few bangs a week - and I would be done with her. I have better shit to deal with than having a woman trying to map out my weekend for me.

 

[WD-40]

I am still interested in PUA type skillz and, given suitable candidates, can see myself re-engaging with women at some point in the future. But I certainly won't be casting my pearls before swine or wasting inordinate amounts of my precious time only to scrape the bottom of the SMP barrel.

And if there isn't anybody, there isn't anybody. I'm cool with that. Maybe I have just not met the right kind of women yet, but when weighing the value of their companionship against their demands, difficulties and drama, I've found them to be a draw at best. So I don't think it's true that I would be worse off for it if I were remain solitary.

 

[Icarus]

When discussing the MGTOW phenomenon, one should think holistically and see the whole picture.

Here's what Bryce wrote a few months ago:

The modern man is an irony. As developed before, he works in order that women may work, negating the value of his work to himself and his society. If he should like to pass over the allure of a narcissistic lifestyle wherein he treats the accumulation of material possessions as an end of living and concern himself instead with the work of civilization, i.e. starting a family and raising children ready to take their own place in society, he has everything in the world working against him. Though I intend no romanticism, a man who should like to be a provider to a loving wife and family has virtually every force conspiring against him. At the age which he should like to begin being a man, all other women his age who he should like to woo are distracted and occupied by education, Facebook, a career, and predatory socio-sexual aristocrats who have no qualms with using women for sex and nothing more. One might try and enjoin this man to partake of the pleasures of his age, and maybe he shall give in, since otherwise the rewards of his labor shall be a lonely 20′s where he feels crushed by his inability to attract a wife interested in the vision of a family. And when attention is finally given to him, his wife might concede to having a second child if she doesn’t divorce him or somehow ruin the marriage.

Such a situation is almost a perfect contradiction to the plight of the man growing up earlier than 50 years ago.

 

[cardguy]

Not exactly MGTOW. But I couldn't think where else to share this.

Lovely quote from the actor, Matt LeBlanc.

Really sums up my life as well.

‘I love to do nothing. But it’s a very busy nothing.’