Migrant invasion of Europe

Bitter End

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I'm rambling here, but the point being i dont think the people have EVER been responsible for this. Even in the late stage 'hey guys, we really ARE a nation of immigrants' retardation, it just feels like blaming a battered housewife for sticking up for her man.
Even if I did not know the details about Tony Blair's policies, etc, I would never blame the Western Europeans. While there is some apathy among the millenials, these processes started ages ago and went very slowly for long periods. You can easily be living in the center and stay oblivious to the ghettos forming around until it is very late to react. It was never voted in to bring this people in first place, so good luck using democracy to send them away.
 

Tradcatholic

Robin
Catholic
The Polish know very well that the migrants will not settle in Poland, the whole situation is a joke. The politicians are appealing to the braindead "patriots" by claiming that they are defending the border when instead they should put them on a direct bus to the German border, far cheaper for the tax payers and less headache.
That's a good point - and it would be a lot more based, because there's no need to pretend to defend the frontier when these migrants are just planning to use Poland as a transit route anyway. Tell the EU: fine, since you love migrants so much, have a few more. It would also diminish unnecessary tensions between Poland and Belarus.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
FFNfPxCXEAoosON
 

MartyMcFly

Kingfisher
Other Christian
That's a good point - and it would be a lot more based, because there's no need to pretend to defend the frontier when these migrants are just planning to use Poland as a transit route anyway. Tell the EU: fine, since you love migrants so much, have a few more. It would also diminish unnecessary tensions between Poland and Belarus.
Bad idea and short-term thinking. If enough go to Germany and breed, Poland will fall in 15-20 years. If Germany becomes a third-world Islamic republic, you really think they will respect their neighbors and not try to sneak into their borders later? Poland needs to either build a wall and shoot people trying to cross OR catch people crossing and use them as cheap labor on prison farms and prison factories and then deport the prisoners after 1-2 years. Maybe Poland can become the world's factory instead of China if they are willing to do my 2nd idea (I know they lack the cahones to do this but one can dream).
 

paternos

Sparrow
Catholic
I have been looking for a Christian perspective on migration.

In the bible I can't find direct relations, next to things brought up in politics as a tool to like migrants as if they are our neighbours.
Matthew 22:39
to love your neighbour as yourself

What I can see is references in John:

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

Does this mean we should not be involved in politics and build on the kingdom of Christ? Somehow I feel that's where the road is leading me. I see many protests going on against lockdowns, and somehow the energy breaths protestantism. The world is corrupt and will be corrupt, and in the current sentiment it will turn more and more anti-christian.

Or:

Luke 17:20-21
Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
And I see that if I look well, the kingdom of God is in the midst of us. The kingdom we have at our kitchen tables.

I think we can see our political elite is trying to destroy the kingdom of god bringing in millions of muslims, parasites and other criminals to Europe.

Maybe my question is not on migration. But how to live as a Christian with hostile political leaders. I mean in a way Jesus was in a similar situation founding the kingdom of Christ.

Somehow I think and feel the migration flows of criminals and muslims brought in by the Jewish elite is not to bring us down. I feel it is getting us stronger.

From a personal point of view I can say that mostly by my own sinning but also the large migration flows with on top of that medical dictatorship brought me to God. In a weird way maybe I'm thankful for it.

John 15:18-20
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

I think it might get worse, but strengthen us, rejoicing in our suffering.

Romans 5:3-4
More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,

I won't contribute to anti-christian politicians, contribute to the world as little as possible, but build the kingdom of God in my own belief, in church, with the people around me. In the end Christ offers us hope.

But I desire to build character, somehow I think worrying and despairing on the state of the world, won't help me build the kingdom of god on earth.

I feel there is a lot of hope, as God found us in the world.
 
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MartyMcFly

Kingfisher
Other Christian
African demography can affect a country only if the country wants to be affected.
Exactly, I think it is ridiculous that nations feel they have no choice in this matter. However, I suppose the problem is we must assume that at least 51% of western Europeans, Canadians, and Americans want more African immigration (assuming the fact they are democracies and we know that in democracies, the leaders make decisions based on whether the majority of the population supports it). If 51% of people want their nation to be overrun with Africans, the other 49% will have to accept it or migrate to a less 'tolerant' nation. You may not believe 51% + is accurate but look at the people that Germans, French, Americans, and Canadians choose as their leaders.

I have read several articles that discuss Africa's overpopulation (Rwanda's genocide in Jared Diamond's book 'Collapse' mentions overpopulation as a major cause for this). One serious question though. Many forum users here are against birth control. However, Africa's rapid population growth is likely its #2 most serious problem (#1 is probably greed). Assuming everybody should marry at a young age and have big families (as long as they stay married and plan to raise the children to the best of their ability), this means an average of 6-9 kids per couple. How can Africa prevent mass starvation and war while still maintaining such a rapid population growth? One idea that comes to mind is vertical farming.


vertical farm.jpg
 

DenizenJane

Woodpecker
Non-Christian
I have read several articles that discuss Africa's overpopulation (Rwanda's genocide in Jared Diamond's book 'Collapse' mentions overpopulation as a major cause for this). One serious question though. Many forum users here are against birth control. However, Africa's rapid population growth is likely its #2 most serious problem (#1 is probably greed). Assuming everybody should marry at a young age and have big families (as long as they stay married and plan to raise the children to the best of their ability), this means an average of 6-9 kids per couple. How can Africa prevent mass starvation and war while still maintaining such a rapid population growth?
The "rapid growth" has nothing to do with monogamous folks who just won't take birth control. Its has to do with runaway promiscuity- with no birth control. Its no secret. And Africa is like this. Christian missionaries (in living memory) have always turned a blind eye to this fact and instead do the shtick of helping poor people. Pointing out poor behavior, however is too scary.

Its mathematical really. You do the hyper-modern sterile society like Japan you fade into a geriatric gray-hair Atlantis type of country. If you do the South Sudan style permanent orgy you have the perpetual famine-o-clock civilization.

If you have five ladies on rotation with no birth control, you forfeit any cooling off period (nine-or-so month pregnancy), and no guaranteed horizon for menopause, as you won't grow old with one wife, and will most likely discard her for a newer younger one.

It doesn't matter how hard you work at the point (which is another issue in Africa) you will never, ever earn enough to feed that many kids in your allotted lifetime.
 

MartyMcFly

Kingfisher
Other Christian
The "rapid growth" has nothing to do with monogamous folks who just won't take birth control. Its has to do with runaway promiscuity- with no birth control. Its no secret. And Africa is like this. Christian missionaries (in living memory) have always turned a blind eye to this fact and instead do the shtick of helping poor people. Pointing out poor behavior, however is too scary.

Its mathematical really. You do the hyper-modern sterile society like Japan you fade into a geriatric gray-hair Atlantis type of country. If you do the South Sudan style permanent orgy you have the perpetual famine-o-clock civilization.

If you have five ladies on rotation with no birth control, you forfeit any cooling off period (nine-or-so month pregnancy), and no guaranteed horizon for menopause, as you won't grow old with one wife, and will most likely discard her for a newer younger one.

It doesn't matter how hard you work at the point (which is another issue in Africa) you will never, ever earn enough to feed that many kids in your allotted lifetime.
I would have guessed that Africa had fewer out of wedlock babies than the USA. I assumed their cultures were more family oriented (until they migrate to western nations and get westernized in the worst ways). Polygamy is common in many of the nations, but this shouldn't increase birth rates (unless the wives have affairs or the men pimp out their wives); it will just result in more incels which will lead to more violent hopeless angry men (another issue in Africa and the Middle East).

However, I suppose they could use the rhythm message of birth control. Maybe a lot are unaware of this option. It would take discipline though, but not as extreme as skipping sex completely between kid #2 or #3 and menopause. An article states this is 76% effective. If done throughout the marriage, it might mean 2-5 kids vs. 6-10 kids. If all couples did this, it would mean a huge drop in birth rates. I read that Catholics, Jews, and Muslims all allow the rhythm method.

However, God also said 'be fruitful and prosperous' which some might argue that even the rhythm method or abstinence are wrong if you are married and it is your duty to have as many babies as possible as long as you are both physically healthy enough for intercourse and still fertile even if you are poor and can't afford to feed the kids you have. I am not an expert and find it quite a complex situation.

 

lookslikeit

Woodpecker
African demography can affect a country only if the country wants to be affected.

Wrong. As someone from Africa, I can tell you your policies won't matter. There is an upcoming one BILLION new youth in the foreseeable future. Even if 5% figure out your wall, that's still 50million immigrants.

Africa is going to be a huge problem for the West and China in the future. The problem was made by the West (destabilizing the African nations balance by reducing child birth death rate while not accounting that their societies have not evolved enough to stop re-producing like crazy). Just look for Niger Population in Google and see the Chart. The population growth is exponential.

Add to that, that most African nations have failed at nation building and that tribalism is still strong; and you'd have hundred of millions who have no choice but to go somewhere else regardless of consequences. Africa is an example of why you shouldn't mess with things at large scale. Or why unfettered exponential population growth is not a smart idea.

But the harm is already done. There is no other way around but for Europe, US and China to build nations in Africa that can hold its own population. We have already seen how Europe and US have fared in that (Iraq, Afghanistan, ex-colonies, etc...) so I wouldn't hold my breath. China is not a model either.
 
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