Military equipment & technology used in the war

TruckDriver9

Hummingbird
Iran is on the cutting edge. They are going to carry Russia all the way to Britain at this point. Unlimited suicide drones that are cheap as dirt. The future of warfare is here, this is similar to how the first armies started using muskets against crossbows. This is a major elevation in warfare and anyone who fails to adapt to drone warfare is going to be conquered.

I would expect our side to replicate this kind of drone tech, but who knows, maybe not enough money for Raytheon to make in 8K drones. And even if we do copy them, since Iran developed this kind of tech I would assume they're already ahead of us and know how to counter these drones too. We've fallen behind in the tech race and the odds of American victory are extremely slim right now.
The Iranians found and monopolized a niche, we didn't know that existed - something more than loitering munition, but less than a cruise missile.
To deliver this kind of damage at that kind of range (estimated 1800-2500 km) western armed forces were using either air force jets or strike drones, both of which are far more expensive and much more vulnerable to air defence fire.
 

TruckDriver9

Hummingbird

I think it's just fearmongering from our non-shellfish eating friends, to push for more sanctions and more war.
While the drone deal between Russia and Iran makes sense, since Russia overslept its own drone program. It's not the case with Russian missile program - not only they have large stockpiles of modern missiles, but in case of a shortage they can take older (but still highly effective) missiles such as "Tochka" out of storage.
 

Belgrano

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I think it's just fearmongering from our non-shellfish eating friends, to push for more sanctions and more war.
While the drone deal between Russia and Iran makes sense, since Russia overslept its own drone program. It's not the case with Russian missile program - not only they have large stockpiles of modern missiles, but in case of a shortage they can take older (but still highly effective) missiles such as "Tochka" out of storage.

Iran might have asked to test those systems in peer-to-peer combat against US/NATO equipment.
 

dicknixon72

Ostrich
Maybe a good parallel would be 1944 Germany, they were running out of resources (like metals) so they designed some brilliant planes with wood mframes, including the Horten brothers' Ho-229 flying wing, which Northrop ripped off for their new bombers, including the B-2 Spirit, the most expensive plane of all time at over $2 billion a pop. Not only did the two planes look alike, but the Ho229 also was a stealth jet due to its mostly wood composite structure.

Not sure how credible that assertion is. Many designers all over the world were working on thick-chord wing and flying wing-type designs from the dawn of flight, including the English, Russians, and other German firms.

The Horton brothers built gliders and some powered gliders in the early 1930s concurrent with Northop's experiments. Actually, the X216H - which retained an empennage and wasn't a pure flying wing - first flew in '29, followed by the N-1M in '41 and N-9 in '42, both of which where scaled proof-of-concept airframes for the nascent XB-35 program begun in 1941, long before the HO229 took flight.

As for the low-observable aspect, that was a byproduct of the wing design more than anything. I think Horton was intending to use charcoal dust in the wood glue as an early RAM product but I don't know if that was actually done to any of the airframes built.

An interesting documentary from 2008 wherein Northrop built and RCS-tested a scale model of the HO229, finding its shape returned less than half the signature of a comparable conventional fighter...


And the B-2 is on $2BN/per as that's what happens when you spread the cost of a program intended for a 132-unit order across 21 actual airframes.
 

Belgrano

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Drone warfare:





Everything you wanted to know about Geran but were afraid to ask.

According to our sources, Iran did not hand over the drones themselves, but the technology to produce them. It is said that there are already three enterprises in the territory of Russia that are involved in this.

The price of one UAV is about $800. That is negligible. It is trivial to use drones to defuse the enemy`s air defenses. At such a low price, the kamikaze UAV shows very good characteristics: weight of about 200 kg, the weight of warhead - up to 50 kg, and speed of up to 185 km/h.

For modern air defense systems, the Geran-2 is a very difficult target to defeat. It is also virtually impossible to hit a drone with small arms. We need Pantsir missile and AA systems, but the AFU practically does not have them.

Finally, "Geran-2" easily destroys any enemy armored vehicle, including a tank, and can destroy a separately standing medium-sized multi-story building, a warehouse, and a hangar.

Note: $800 could be a typo, $8000 would make more sense.

The main piece of new information is that the Shahed/Geran drones are made in Russia, with Iran providing the technology and know-how.
 
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911

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Iran probably has a huge stockpile of these already, so they might have sold and delivered a few thousands to Russia for them to use until their domestic production ramps up.

This might be part of the package of Su-35s Russian is selling to Iran, up to 64 jets in a $5 billion deal. Those include a couple of dozen jets ordered and produced for Egypt, in a deal that has been recently scuttled due to US pressure on Egypt.

 
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TruckDriver9

Hummingbird
Why is it so hard for Ukraine/NATO to shoot down Iranian suicide drones? They're visible, loud, etc.

Probably for the first time in history, a fighter aircraft was lost trying to shoot down a kamikaze drone in actual combat. A Ukrainian MiG-29 crashed while attempting to take down an Iranian Shahed-136 drone.



Russia has bought unspecified Iranian drones that have been wreaking havoc in Ukraine. Ukrainian armed forces have been using all available means to try and stop the Iranian drones.

On October 12, the Ukrainian Air Force chose to use a fighter aircraft to combat the Iranian Shahid-136 called Geran-2 in Russia. The MiG-29 was scrambled over Vinnytsia, but the manoeuvre failed. The Ukrainian Air Force said the pilot ejected.

Despite its big size, the “Shahed 136” or “Geran-5” UAV has a cheap manufacturing cost. This sort of drone arrives at its destination using GPS coordinates entered before launch.


Shahed-136 drones ready in the launcher


The Shahed’s engine is modelled on those of actual lawnmowers. The engine is air cooled. It flies in a buzzing manner and cools itself, making it hard to shoot it down along the heat trail. Due to the low flying speed and altitude, air defence cannot detect the aircraft. Additionally, it is hard to shoot down with small arms since the composition of the wing “tightens” when struck by small guns. It may carry as much as 50 kg of TNT. According to Telegram channels, a Russian soldier rated the efficiency of the drone as “extraordinary.” The Ukrainian troops say they can hear the drone approach, which sounds like a motorcycle.

The Shahed 136 drone has a considerable psychological impact on the personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, according to the chatter on social media platforms.
 

911

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Why is it so hard for Ukraine/NATO to shoot down Iranian suicide drones? They're visible, loud, etc.

They fly low, and while not particularly fast for a plane at 180kmh, it's still too fast, like a fast car zipping by at top speed, so unless you're perfectly positioned and ready to shoot well before they fly overhead, good luck. They might be shot down with a NATO AA $200,000 missile, maybe, but they usually fly in swarms, and if they can empty out NATO's limited arsenal of high-end AA missiles, they've done their job at $8k a pop.

The best way to shoot them down is with a Phalanx-type rapid-firing radar-guided gun, like the Russian Pantsir system, which has guns as well as small missiles that can easily hit a Shahed drone:

images


The Ukies don't have those, but even if they did, the Russian would know where they are and could program ahead the drone paths so they avoid those types of defenses (which have a limited range) on the way to their targets, or at the very least send in a swarm attacking that target from different angles.

In theory, the Shaheds are relatively easy to intercept and shoot down with a jet fighter, but the problem for Ukraine is that any airborne jet attempting this is going to be tracked from literally hundreds of kilometers away and brought down by a Russian S-300.

This is what happened this weekend to two Ukrainian jets, a Mig29 and a Su27, who went on a Shahed hunting mission and instead became the hunted. They were intercepted and destroyed by Russian S-300s missiles from over 200km away, setting a new world record for longest successful interception by a ground-based antiair missile system.

And the S-300 isn't even a top of the line system, the S-400 and S-500s are designed to shoot down a hypersonic missile flying 3 times faster than a fighter jet at top speed, with a range of 400+kms.

That's why NATO has been pretty shy about sending in its planes into the fray, they would get swatted down, pilots captured, although I think they are likely to start sending in F-16s flown by a handful of trained Ukie pilots and Polish mercs, because Ukraine is down to its last dozen of Mig29s/Su27s, and the former eastern block allies are almost completely out of these.
 
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Going strong

Crow
Orthodox
Gold Member
These "Iranian" (or Tajik? Who knows... ) drones, being so basic in their design, slow and with their cumbersome noisy "lawnmower" engines, well, one cannot say they are high-tech. They are not "high-tech advanced military systems", they're basically flying mopeds.

Therefore, one might appreciate the fact that they would not be encompassed by the 2231 UN resolution against Iranian weaponry... Added advantage.
 

Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Why is it so hard for Ukraine/NATO to shoot down Iranian suicide drones? They're visible, loud, etc.

They are overwhelmingly sent at night. They don't show up on radar, and in the dark human vision will be pretty worthless at spotting them.

It looks like the USA already has an answer to drone swarms:


According to a press release from General Dynamics, Stryker Leonidas features onboard and networked target acquisition and mobility to accompany all maneuver formations. The system successfully defeated individual targets and swarms of drones during a recent field demonstration.



I wonder how long until these things show up in Ukraine? Will they get there in time to save Ukraine? Doesn't look like it.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
They are overwhelmingly sent at night. They don't show up on radar, and in the dark human vision will be pretty worthless at spotting them.

It looks like the USA already has an answer to drone swarms:






I wonder how long until these things show up in Ukraine? Will they get there in time to save Ukraine? Doesn't look like it.

No... But .mil will need to test them out on something so i wouldn't be surprised if they wind up over there.
 
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