Military Intervention in Syria.

[Capr]

Another article about 50 years of USA "helping others" war:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/03/the-end-of-u-s-imperium-finally.html

 

[Tex Pro]

U.S., Russia agree to framework on Syria chemical weapons:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/14/politics/us-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[Quintus Curtius]

Warmongering servant of the powerful John McCain plans a "rebuttal" in Pravda of Putin's recent Obama bitch-slap article in the New York Times.
What a tool.
I have to say that old Vlad has played this whole Syria affair masterfully. After wiping the floor with America in the Snowden affair, he follows it right up with the Syria haymaker to the jaw.
In the game of international intrigue, he's proven himself an expert, while the Kerry/Obama team appear as clod-hopping amateurs. Felix Dzherzhinsky, the cunning old head of the Soviet Cheka, would have been proud of this one.
Recent disappointments? I saw Bashar's interview with Charlie Rose, and was not impressed. He comes across as arrogant and out of touch. He may yet keep his throne, but I have to admit that he's unworthy to have inherited the mantle of his father.
Hafez knew how to deal with a rebellion. Bashar, by hesitating and flummoxing at the critical moments, lacks the iron ruthlessness needed of a sovereign.

 

[Samseau]

Putin definitely has more game than Obama.

 

[Tex Pro]

More proof that Putin is a badass:

Republican congressman lost arm-wrestling match to Putin

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/13/republican-congressman-lost-arm-wrestling-match-to-putin/

Republican California Rep. Dana Rohrabacher admitted Friday to once losing an arm-wrestling match to Russian president Vladimir Putin.

“We started arguing about who won the Cold War,” Rohrabacher told a local radio station about the vaguely symbolic dustup. ”We decided to settle it the way men do when they had too much to drink in the pub. So we got down to these arm-wrestling matches.”

Though America clearly won the Cold War, Rohrabacher did not fare as well in the arm-wrestling match, held in the early 1990s at the Irish Times pub in Washington, D.C. before Putin became Russian president/dictator/king or whatever he is.

“I ended up being paired off with Putin. He’s a little guy. But boy, I tell you, he put me down in a millisecond. He is tough. His muscles are just unbelievable,” Rohrabacher said.

Putin is currently locked in a bout of political gamesmanship with President Barack Obama over the crisis in Syria, which Putin is pretty clearly winning.

 

[tiggaling]

Russians are very tactical people, and their collective enthusiasm for chess demonstrates this.

American foreign policy has often been more hot headed and irrational than tactical or really making too much sense.

This was really demonstrated in the cuban missle crisis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_summit

"Kennedy later said of Khrushchev, "He beat the hell out of me" and told New York Times reporter James ‘Scotty’ Reston it was the "worst thing in my life. He savaged me".[4] Kennedy's performance at the summit encouraged Khrushchev to think afterwards that the United States leader was politically lightweight, a perception that may have caused the subsequent Cuban missile crisis.[5]

In addition to conveying US reluctance to defend the full rights of Berlin’s citizens, Kennedy ignored his own cabinet officials’ advice to avoid ideological debate with Khrushchev. Khrushchev outmatched Kennedy in this debate, and came away believing he had triumphed in the summit over a weak and inexperienced leader. Observing Kennedy’s morose expression at the end of the summit, Khrushchev believed Kennedy "looked not only anxious, but deeply upset…I hadn’t meant to upset him. I would have liked very much for us to part in a different mood. But there was nothing I could do to help him…Politics is a merciless business.”[6]

Kennedy’s poor performance during the summit may have been due to the combination of powerful medication he was taking for his back pain and other ailments. Following the prescriptions of Max Jacobson (informally known as "Dr. Feelgood"), Kennedy was injecting himself with a drug cocktail that included hormones, steroids, animal organ cells, vitamins, enzymes, and amphetamines. Among the possible side effects of this combination were hyperactivity, nervousness, impaired judgment, and wild mood swings.[7]"

Khrushchev did the right thing, and backed down from the cuban missle crisis and averted further escalation in an impossible situation. Whereas America took the hot headed position, which looked tough and fuelled the perception Kennedy had one over Khrushchev, when in fact I think history shows us Khrushchev really averted a lot of potential trouble for the world here, even though it made him look bad and soon cost him the leadership of the USSR.

 

[Hencredible Casanova]

McCain responds to Putin with an op-ed in Russia's daily paper

When Pravda.ru editor, Dmitry Sudakov, offered to publish my commentary, he referred to me as "an active anti-Russian politician for many years." I'm sure that isn't the first time Russians have heard me characterized as their antagonist. Since my purpose here is to dispel falsehoods used by Russia's rulers to perpetuate their power and excuse their corruption, let me begin with that untruth. I am not anti-Russian. I am pro-Russian, more pro-Russian than the regime that misrules you today.

I make that claim because I respect your dignity and your right to self-determination. I believe you should live according to the dictates of your conscience, not your government. I believe you deserve the opportunity to improve your lives in an economy that is built to last and benefits the many, not just the powerful few. You should be governed by a rule of law that is clear, consistently and impartially enforced and just. I make that claim because I believe the Russian people, no less than Americans, are endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

A Russian citizen could not publish a testament like the one I just offered. President Putin and his associates do not believe in these values. They don't respect your dignity or accept your authority over them. They punish dissent and imprison opponents. They rig your elections. They control your media. They harass, threaten, and banish organizations that defend your right to self-governance. To perpetuate their power they foster rampant corruption in your courts and your economy and terrorize and even assassinate journalists who try to expose their corruption.

They write laws to codify bigotry against people whose sexual orientation they condemn. They throw the members of a punk rock band in jail for the crime of being provocative and vulgar and for having the audacity to protest President Putin's rule.

Sergei Magnistky wasn't a human rights activist. He was an accountant at a Moscow law firm. He was an ordinary Russian who did an extraordinary thing. He exposed one of the largest state thefts of private assets in Russian history. He cared about the rule of law and believed no one should be above it. For his beliefs and his courage, he was held in Butyrka prison without trial, where he was beaten, became ill and died. After his death, he was given a show trial reminiscent of the Stalin-era and was, of course, found guilty. That wasn't only a crime against Sergei Magnitsky. It was a crime against the Russian people and your right to an honest government - a government worthy of Sergei Magnistky and of you.

President Putin claims his purpose is to restore Russia to greatness at home and among the nations of the world. But by what measure has he restored your greatness? He has given you an economy that is based almost entirely on a few natural resources that will rise and fall with those commodities. Its riches will not last. And, while they do, they will be mostly in the possession of the corrupt and powerful few. Capital is fleeing Russia, which - lacking rule of law and a broad-based economy - is considered too risky for investment and entrepreneurism. He has given you a political system that is sustained by corruption and repression and isn't strong enough to tolerate dissent.

How has he strengthened Russia's international stature? By allying Russia with some of the world's most offensive and threatening tyrannies. By supporting a Syrian regime that is murdering tens of thousands of its own people to remain in power and by blocking the United Nations from even condemning its atrocities. By refusing to consider the massacre of innocents, the plight of millions of refugees, the growing prospect of a conflagration that engulfs other countries in its flames an appropriate subject for the world's attention. He is not enhancing Russia's global reputation. He is destroying it. He has made her a friend to tyrants and an enemy to the oppressed, and untrusted by nations that seek to build a safer, more peaceful and prosperous world.

President Putin doesn't believe in these values because he doesn't believe in you. He doesn't believe that human nature at liberty can rise above its weaknesses and build just, peaceful, prosperous societies. Or, at least, he doesn't believe Russians can. So he rules by using those weaknesses, by corruption, repression and violence. He rules for himself, not you.

I do believe in you. I believe in your capacity for self-government and your desire for justice and opportunity. I believe in the greatness of the Russian people, who suffered enormously and fought bravely against terrible adversity to save your nation. I believe in your right to make a civilization worthy of your dreams and sacrifices. When I criticize your government, it is not because I am anti-Russian. It is because I believe you deserve a government that believes in you and answers to you. And, I long for the day when you have it.

 

[CactusCat589]

Felt like that it was addressed to me as an American citizen. Though doubtless he's got a point about the Putin regime. It's hard to see the good guys anywhere.

 

[Pacesetter20]

Felt like that it was addressed to me as an American citizen. Though doubtless he's got a point about the Putin regime. It's hard to see the good guys anywhere.

I had that feeling too:

They don't respect your dignity or accept your authority over them. They punish dissent and imprison opponents. They rig your elections. They control your media. They harass, threaten, and banish organizations that defend your right to self-governance. To perpetuate their power they foster rampant corruption in your courts and your economy and terrorize and even assassinate journalists who try to expose their corruption.

 

[scorpion]

McCain is just embarrassing himself at this point. The man needs to be put out to pasture.

But instead of enjoying his twilight years with his family, he seems hellbent on starting WW3, along with his fairy godmother Lindsey Graham.

That op-ed is pathetic. There's zero rational justification for escalation in Syria. He just talks a bunch of shit about Putin and assumes Russians are just like Americans.

If Putin is playing chess while Obama plays checkers, McCain is over in the corner playing fucking tiddlywinks. I mean, this looks like total amateur hour. He's either completely incompetent or totally out of touch with reality. Either way, somebody seriously needs to yank this guy off the stage.

 

[Hencredible Casanova]

The comments section is pretty telling.

 

[Quintus Curtius]

What a laughable, sorry write up.
McCain is a pure warmonger and a lackey, plain and simple. It's a true shame he finds fit to put Israel's interests ahead of his own country's interests. But that's how power works.
But what does he care? He's worth hundreds of millions, has no skin in the game, and make whatever "ex cathedra" pronouncement he wants. The people who bear the burdens of his arrogance are us.

 

[Hencredible Casanova]

What a laughable, sorry write up.
McCain is a pure warmonger and a lackey, plain and simple. It's a true shame he finds fit to put Israel's interests ahead of his own country's interests. But that's how power works.
But what does he care? He's worth hundreds of millions, has no skin in the game, and make whatever "ex cathedra" pronouncement he wants. The people who bear the burdens of his arrogance are us.

The part of your comment that I highlighted in bold is one of my favorite concepts. One of my favorite author/thinkers is Nassim Nicholas Taleb and he wrote a paper on that very topic. I always rely on that metric when evaluating someone's sincerity and potential motives when suggesting an idea.

http://nassimtaleb.org/category/skin-in-the-game/

 

[Veloce]

McCain is just embarrassing himself at this point. The man needs to be put out to pasture.

But instead of enjoying his twilight years with his family, he seems hellbent on starting WW3, along with his fairy godmother Lindsey Graham.

That op-ed is pathetic. There's zero rational justification for escalation in Syria. He just talks a bunch of shit about Putin and assumes Russians are just like Americans.

If Putin is playing chess while Obama plays checkers, McCain is over in the corner playing fucking tiddlywinks. I mean, this looks like total amateur hour. He's either completely incompetent or totally out of touch with reality. Either way, somebody seriously needs to yank this guy off the stage.

My thoughts exactly. Actually, I was thinking, "This is like a really, really elaborate speech from Captain Save-a-Ho."

What's he doing here? Trying to convince Russians to move to the U.S.? Fucking embarrassing.

 

[Giovonny]

I don't know anything about this situation but I suspect that we want to go there to secure greater control of oil production.

Russia probably wants to do the same thing..

Am I off base here? Is this purely a humanitarian mission?

I doubt it. Usually, when we take military action, its because we stand to profit.

Am I crazy?

P.S. -- If we are going for the oil, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I beleive in the law of the jungle!

 

[MrXY]

I used to not think well of Putin, but we must admit... is there any leader in the world today who is doing more to stem the tide of cultural relativism and all its minions?

As an intellectual, I'm almost more in favor of fighting for Putin than for Obama. Obama would destroy Christianity, Putin seeks an alliance of Christian states.

Putin is only doing this to advance his own cause as a hero of the people.

Who knows what his actual motives are? He's been the dictator of Russia for over 10 years, and Russia isn't exactly experiencing a revival right now.

Actually.......

Under the presidency of Vladimir Putin Russia's economy saw the nominal Gross Domestic Product (GDP) double, climbing from 22nd to 11th largest in the world. The economy made real gains of an average 7% per year ( 1999: 6.5%, 2000: 10%, 2001: 5.7%, 2002: 4.9%, 2003: 7.3%, 2004: 7.2%, 2005: 6.4%, 2006: 8.2%, 2007: 8.5%, 2008: 5.2% ), making it the 6th largest economy in the world in GDP(PPP). In 2007, Russia's GDP exceeded that of 1990, meaning it has overcome the devastating consequences of the recession in the 1990s.[37]

During Putin's eight years in office, the industry grew by 75%, investments increased by 125%,[37] and agricultural production and construction increased as well. Real incomes more than doubled and the average salary increased eightfold from $80 to $640.[38][39][40] The volume of consumer credit between 2000–2006 increased 45 times,[41][42] and during that same time period, the middle class grew from 8 million to 55 million, an increase of 7 times. The number of people living below the poverty line also decreased from 30% in 2000 to 14% in 2008.[37][43][44]

Inflation remained a problem however, as the government failed to contain the growth of prices. Between 1999–2007 inflation was kept at the forecast ceiling only twice, and in 2007 the inflation exceeded that of 2006, continuing an upward trend at the beginning of 2008.[37

The negative demographic trend has also been reversed-Russia's population shrank in the 90s and early 2000s; it's now growing slowly.

As for Syria, I think the real plan is a longer term maneuver against Iran

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I don't know anything about this situation but I suspect that we want to go there to secure greater control of oil production.

Russia probably wants to do the same thing..

Am I off base here? Is this purely a humanitarian mission?

I doubt it. Usually, when we take military action, its because we stand to profit.

Am I crazy?

P.S. -- If we are going for the oil, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I beleive in the law of the jungle!

No, I think your decision is rational. I could actually understand Iraq if it was for the oil - but USA is now getting less oil from Iraq than it did before the war! It turns out the main reason was just stupidity and pride! As you say, knowing that evil things are being done for rational reasons would make them slightly more tolerable.

That said, I haven't heard of any oil in Syria. Does it have sizable deposits? I don't think so, but someone please enlighten me.

 

[The Beast1]

I don't know anything about this situation but I suspect that we want to go there to secure greater control of oil production.

Russia probably wants to do the same thing..

Am I off base here? Is this purely a humanitarian mission?

I doubt it. Usually, when we take military action, its because we stand to profit.

Am I crazy?

P.S. -- If we are going for the oil, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I beleive in the law of the jungle!

No, I think your decision is rational. I could actually understand Iraq if it was for the oil - but USA is now getting less oil from Iraq than it did before the war! It turns out the main reason was just stupidity and pride! As you say, knowing that evil things are being done for rational reasons would make them slightly more tolerable.

That said, I haven't heard of any oil in Syria. Does it have sizable deposits? I don't think so, but someone please enlighten me.

We didn't want Iraq's oil. We wanted to force them back into selling oil for dollars to keep our ability to print money at will. Forcing countries to use the dollar to buy oil means an artificially increased demand on the dollar.

It has everything to do with currency and nothing to do with powering automobiles.

 

[j r]

I don't know anything about this situation but I suspect that we want to go there to secure greater control of oil production.

Russia probably wants to do the same thing..

Am I off base here? Is this purely a humanitarian mission?

I doubt it. Usually, when we take military action, its because we stand to profit.

Am I crazy?

P.S. -- If we are going for the oil, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I beleive in the law of the jungle!

No, I think your decision is rational. I could actually understand Iraq if it was for the oil - but USA is now getting less oil from Iraq than it did before the war! It turns out the main reason was just stupidity and pride! As you say, knowing that evil things are being done for rational reasons would make them slightly more tolerable.

That said, I haven't heard of any oil in Syria. Does it have sizable deposits? I don't think so, but someone please enlighten me.

We didn't want Iraq's oil. We wanted to force them back into selling oil for dollars to keep our ability to print money at will. Forcing countries to use the dollar to buy oil means an artificially increased demand on the dollar.

It has everything to do with currency and nothing to do with powering automobiles.

The petrodollar warfare theory is interesting, but I wouldn't put too much stock into it. Currency issues don't play nearly as big a role in US foreign policy as some people like to think they do.

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Ok, but oil resources in Syria? Anyone knows? Wikipedia lists it as #32 worldwide with 400 000 barrels per day ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production ) and 0.5% of world supply, but I don't know how to put that in perspective. Is that a lot? A lot for a country of its size? A lot for a country of its population? It doesn't seem like much to me, but I might be wrong.