Military Intervention in Syria.
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CactusCat589
Kingfisher
Plus, everyone stopped talking about the NSA. Well-played?
greensteelhead
Robin
American warships are steaming to the hot zone fast. Here is a roster:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-27/meet-and-follow-us-naval-forces-breathing-down-syrias-neck
Some sources are saying there will be the tomahawk missle salvo in the next few days (as early as Thursday). The irony of responding to "chemical weapons" with missle strikes is pretty good. Send in the drones after the missles hit; you have a lot of air defenses to take out.
This Administration has not been challenged nor will be challenged by opposition. Who will ask the hard questions or sue to stop them? The Republicans like Graham or McCain?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! No.
So much for your Nobel Peace Prize winning POS and his "I voted for it before I voted against it" Sec of State. Kiss my ass.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-27/meet-and-follow-us-naval-forces-breathing-down-syrias-neck
Some sources are saying there will be the tomahawk missle salvo in the next few days (as early as Thursday). The irony of responding to "chemical weapons" with missle strikes is pretty good. Send in the drones after the missles hit; you have a lot of air defenses to take out.
This Administration has not been challenged nor will be challenged by opposition. Who will ask the hard questions or sue to stop them? The Republicans like Graham or McCain?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! No.
So much for your Nobel Peace Prize winning POS and his "I voted for it before I voted against it" Sec of State. Kiss my ass.
greensteelhead
Robin
CactusCat is on to it as well. Nothing but games and bullshit.
Russia's #1 export is Energy. Their #2 export is armaments. Syria and Iran are their biggest customers. It's simple economics. Of course Russia will support their biggest customers.
Secondly, I cannot understand you guys who think that Obama is pro-Israel. He is up there with Jimmy Carter as the most hostile president to Israel since it was created.
Please recognize that huge amounts of Jewish property was confiscated throughout the Arab world between 1948 and 1967. I don't hear anyone arguing vast property across North Africa and Iran etc...should be returned to their rightful owners.
Secondly, I cannot understand you guys who think that Obama is pro-Israel. He is up there with Jimmy Carter as the most hostile president to Israel since it was created.
Please recognize that huge amounts of Jewish property was confiscated throughout the Arab world between 1948 and 1967. I don't hear anyone arguing vast property across North Africa and Iran etc...should be returned to their rightful owners.
DjembaDjemba
Pelican
Putin...huffs, puffs, does nothing.
Obama - praying at an altar the US economy will go into a sustained recovery. Doesn't want to involve himself in the middle east. Doesn't seem to give a shit anymore.
Assad/The Syrians - doing what they've been doing since they've been ruled by Nebuchadnezzar. No change here. Every once in a while some foreign empire will rule or influence them for a stint and then it's back to basics. The Greeks, the Romans, Ottomans, British, French, Americans/Russians, call it imperial carousel.
The British/Cameron - dreaming of the old glory days
The Chinese - counting money
Obama - praying at an altar the US economy will go into a sustained recovery. Doesn't want to involve himself in the middle east. Doesn't seem to give a shit anymore.
Assad/The Syrians - doing what they've been doing since they've been ruled by Nebuchadnezzar. No change here. Every once in a while some foreign empire will rule or influence them for a stint and then it's back to basics. The Greeks, the Romans, Ottomans, British, French, Americans/Russians, call it imperial carousel.
The British/Cameron - dreaming of the old glory days
The Chinese - counting money
K Galt
Woodpecker
Have a look at the recently passed H.R. 4133
"H.R. 4133 would state that it is U.S. policy to: reaffirm the commitment to Israel's security as a Jewish state; provide Israel with the military capabilities to defend itself by itself against any threats; veto any one-sided anti-Israel resolutions at the United Nations Security Council; support Israel’s inherent right to self-defense; expand military and civilian cooperation; assist in a negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that results in two states living side by side in peace and security and to encourage Israel's neighbors to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state."
This country is hopelessly indebted, rising unemployment, and sinking further and further towards economic collapse, and our so-called leaders are voting to send more money and military hardware to a foreign country halfway around the globe? Nice to see our elected leaders got there priorities straight! Never mind all the problems here at home, it's Zion we must support above all else!
Only one man stood up on the Floor of the USofZ Congress and voiced opposition.
Former Representative Ron Paul's Statement on H.R.4133:
Mr. Speaker: I rise in opposition to HR 4133, the United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act, which unfortunately is another piece of one-sided and counter-productive foreign policy legislation. This bill's real intent seems to be more saber-rattling against Iran and Syria, and it undermines US diplomatic efforts by making clear that the US is not an honest broker seeking peace for the Middle East.
The bill calls for the United States to significantly increase our provision of sophisticated weaponry to Israel, and states that it is to be US policy to "help Israel preserve its qualitative military edge" in the region.
While I absolutely believe that Israel – and any other nation -- should be free to determine for itself what is necessary for its national security, I do not believe that those decisions should be underwritten by US taxpayers and backed up by the US military.
This bill states that it is the policy of the United States to "reaffirm the enduring commitment of the United States to the security of the State of Israel as a Jewish state." However, according to our Constitution the policy of the United States government should be to protect the security of the United States, not to guarantee the religious, ethnic, or cultural composition of a foreign country. In fact, our own Constitution prohibits the establishment of any particular religion in the US.
More than 20 years after the reason for NATO's existence – the Warsaw Pact – has disappeared, this legislation seeks to find a new mission for that anachronistic alliance: the defense of Israel. Calling for "an expanded role for Israel within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), including an enhanced presence at NATO headquarters and exercises," it reads like a dream for interventionists and the military industrial complex. As I have said many times, NATO should be disbanded not expanded.
This bill will not help the United States, it will not help Israel, and it will not help the Middle East. It will implicitly authorize much more US interventionism in the region at a time when we cannot afford the foreign commitments we already have. It more likely will lead to war against Syria, Iran, or both. I urge my colleagues to vote against this bill."
Gee, you think Ron Paul was on to something here?
AIPAC is one of the most influential PAC's in D.C.
If and when we go to war anywhere in the M.E., it's because Zion want's us to.
"H.R. 4133 would state that it is U.S. policy to: reaffirm the commitment to Israel's security as a Jewish state; provide Israel with the military capabilities to defend itself by itself against any threats; veto any one-sided anti-Israel resolutions at the United Nations Security Council; support Israel’s inherent right to self-defense; expand military and civilian cooperation; assist in a negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that results in two states living side by side in peace and security and to encourage Israel's neighbors to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state."
This country is hopelessly indebted, rising unemployment, and sinking further and further towards economic collapse, and our so-called leaders are voting to send more money and military hardware to a foreign country halfway around the globe? Nice to see our elected leaders got there priorities straight! Never mind all the problems here at home, it's Zion we must support above all else!
Only one man stood up on the Floor of the USofZ Congress and voiced opposition.
Former Representative Ron Paul's Statement on H.R.4133:
Mr. Speaker: I rise in opposition to HR 4133, the United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act, which unfortunately is another piece of one-sided and counter-productive foreign policy legislation. This bill's real intent seems to be more saber-rattling against Iran and Syria, and it undermines US diplomatic efforts by making clear that the US is not an honest broker seeking peace for the Middle East.
The bill calls for the United States to significantly increase our provision of sophisticated weaponry to Israel, and states that it is to be US policy to "help Israel preserve its qualitative military edge" in the region.
While I absolutely believe that Israel – and any other nation -- should be free to determine for itself what is necessary for its national security, I do not believe that those decisions should be underwritten by US taxpayers and backed up by the US military.
This bill states that it is the policy of the United States to "reaffirm the enduring commitment of the United States to the security of the State of Israel as a Jewish state." However, according to our Constitution the policy of the United States government should be to protect the security of the United States, not to guarantee the religious, ethnic, or cultural composition of a foreign country. In fact, our own Constitution prohibits the establishment of any particular religion in the US.
More than 20 years after the reason for NATO's existence – the Warsaw Pact – has disappeared, this legislation seeks to find a new mission for that anachronistic alliance: the defense of Israel. Calling for "an expanded role for Israel within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), including an enhanced presence at NATO headquarters and exercises," it reads like a dream for interventionists and the military industrial complex. As I have said many times, NATO should be disbanded not expanded.
This bill will not help the United States, it will not help Israel, and it will not help the Middle East. It will implicitly authorize much more US interventionism in the region at a time when we cannot afford the foreign commitments we already have. It more likely will lead to war against Syria, Iran, or both. I urge my colleagues to vote against this bill."
Gee, you think Ron Paul was on to something here?
AIPAC is one of the most influential PAC's in D.C.
If and when we go to war anywhere in the M.E., it's because Zion want's us to.
Marco said:
There aren't any chemical weapons. Most likely tear gashttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all
However, it's not the point. Iran is who we're really after.
3extra said:Seth_Rose said:I doubt Assad has used chemical weapons. Why would he? He said himself it would be idiotic to use chemical weapons where his own soldiers are present. Also, the people reporting the use of chemical weapons are the rebels, so of course they're going to say that Assad was being a bad boy.
It is clear that Syria is a proxy war, similar to the ones fought in the past between USA vs. USSR. The US is now supporting the rebels and the Russians Assad. Do you think Obama or Putin give a flying fuck about the Syrian people? Hell no. It is simply a geo-strategic move for these countries to gain more ground in the mideast.
Look at these countries. You'll notice Syria and Saudi Arabia (read: Syria and Iran) are blue as there is no American military presence there. Is it a coincidence these are the two most likely targets of the American military... unlikely.
My prediction: The US will win out in Syria. Russia will back down and Assad will be booted. The US shall reign supreme. The reason for this is that now Russia is the major roadblock to US intervention. Russia will back down because they're not to worried about Syria, Iran is the big fish. With that said, since the US will get there way in Syria, they're going to have to let off on Iran. If you'll notice, after Ahmadinejad left, the US has cooled it with Iran and it will be that way for a few more years and then things will heat up again.
Should be interesting as to how this all plays out.
Saudi Arabia is red in that map mate. I think you may mean Iran? I certainly hope you do.
Ah yes, thanks for pointing that error out.
And to further confirm my theory, here's an article about a secret oil deal by the Saudi's asking Russia to back down:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html
What does Russia care about more: Syria or more oil money in their pockets...
I think American and allied intervention is imminent as others have pointed out.
All the theorycrafting about the other nations and their involvement might be stimulating and all, but at the end of the day, we NATO states will do what we deem is right by our morals. Russia, China, Iran or whoever can talk, warn and sabre rastle all day long, they're completely insignificant when the west consideres it's national security interests. They only weigh in on diplomacy because we don't want to upset everybody. What could Russia possibly do? Supply more new missiles and radar to Syria? Just to find out they're yet again completely inferior, either don't work, don't hit stuff and get taken out before they detect anything? There's no military balance of power in our world. The balance of power during the cold war was based on nuclear the deterrent and nothing else. NATO is 30-50 years ahead of everyone else in military technology. We designed so much good stuff in ww2 and korea, stole everything we could from the germans, including their scientists and ran with it. Every heavy mechanised armor and/or air engagement involing NATO armed forces in the last 40 years ended in an utter rout and obliteration of the non-NATO force. Recent tank battles have end with losses of 40-100 to NATOs 1. No military commander in the world believes they can stand up to NATO military might and even compete, let alone win.
It's pretty much in the worlds interest for no one to win the Syrian conflict, rather for all sides to accept there's no military gains to be made and join some kind of peace process. No one wants the islamic rebels in power and Assad, backed by Hisbollah and Iran has after recent events definitely become untenable. He's burnt those bridges, and then some. The democratic element of the rebels doesn't have enough backing from the population or enough people under arms to be the sole dominant force in the country. Too many countries are supporting too many different groups, some of which clearly are backed by terrorist elements.
So what needs to happen is everyone to place nice again. Go to germany, sit around some table. Take a bunch of our money. Make some kind of goverment of unity, be pretty ineffective for a couple of years, and let time heal wounds.
It's pretty much in the worlds interest for no one to win the Syrian conflict, rather for all sides to accept there's no military gains to be made and join some kind of peace process. No one wants the islamic rebels in power and Assad, backed by Hisbollah and Iran has after recent events definitely become untenable. He's burnt those bridges, and then some. The democratic element of the rebels doesn't have enough backing from the population or enough people under arms to be the sole dominant force in the country. Too many countries are supporting too many different groups, some of which clearly are backed by terrorist elements.
So what needs to happen is everyone to place nice again. Go to germany, sit around some table. Take a bunch of our money. Make some kind of goverment of unity, be pretty ineffective for a couple of years, and let time heal wounds.
By all means, we should invade Reagan's grave.
He allowed Saddam to gas Iran with chemical weapons and did nothing about it. Saddam later sold such chem weapons to Syria. It's so funny to see how the US knew that Iraq had WMDs, because the US allowed Iraq to use them before.
www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iran
He allowed Saddam to gas Iran with chemical weapons and did nothing about it. Saddam later sold such chem weapons to Syria. It's so funny to see how the US knew that Iraq had WMDs, because the US allowed Iraq to use them before.
www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iran
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23845800
This article reminded me of this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn7d_a0pmio
This article reminded me of this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn7d_a0pmio
I think Israel could survive without American tax money and support. With that support they have to endure these wasteful peace treaties with PA which don't result in any real changes. They would probably still get money and possible weapons from American Jews anyway. I also don't think this attack on Syria would benefit them either.
Have to say, the amount of conspiracy vomit seemingly educated people are eager to gobble up never ceases to amaze me.
No one wants to get involved in Syria. It's a powder keg and we've had enough costly inteventions in muslim countries recently to know the ROI is not worth the trouble. These guys never get their shit together even after you point them in the right direction, give them a bunch of money and show great leniency. That ship has sailed.
Regardless, some shit you just can't let slide, and willfully using nerve gas against civilians is not on. And it shouldn't be. I don't know where you guys grew up but my grandfather and great-uncles all went to war over tyrants comitting genocide. What's changed? Did you see all those suffering children? Do you think they're plastic dolls?
Have we become so afraid to offend the Russians and Chinese that we're not going to stand up for what we believe in and enforce our bounderies? Regardless of what the west does these days half of our own population is always blaming ourselves for action as well as inaction. If anything, that is a tell-tale sign of a declining hegemony. But until we fully get there, I'm in favour of sending an unambiguous message to those who did this.
No one wants to get involved in Syria. It's a powder keg and we've had enough costly inteventions in muslim countries recently to know the ROI is not worth the trouble. These guys never get their shit together even after you point them in the right direction, give them a bunch of money and show great leniency. That ship has sailed.
Regardless, some shit you just can't let slide, and willfully using nerve gas against civilians is not on. And it shouldn't be. I don't know where you guys grew up but my grandfather and great-uncles all went to war over tyrants comitting genocide. What's changed? Did you see all those suffering children? Do you think they're plastic dolls?
Have we become so afraid to offend the Russians and Chinese that we're not going to stand up for what we believe in and enforce our bounderies? Regardless of what the west does these days half of our own population is always blaming ourselves for action as well as inaction. If anything, that is a tell-tale sign of a declining hegemony. But until we fully get there, I'm in favour of sending an unambiguous message to those who did this.
I believe what I deem to be believable and what appears plausible to me given the often times limited amount of information provided.
At times I consider, exactly which conspiracy theory out of the many I've had to be subjected to and lectured about by educated people at dinner parties in the past 15 years has proven itself to be even remotely substantial? All about establishing permanent bases in Iraq and Afghanistan? Securing all the oil? (the emergence of fracking kinda puts a damper on the whole oil angle don't it?). Israelis and CIA blowing up the twin towers? CIA controls Al Qaida?
So here we go again, the US has given nerve gas to terrorists to justify getting involved in a mess they don't really want to get involved in ... but for better to wage war in Iran in a few years to come. Ohkay.
I say wait for the intelligence report to come out. I'm pretty sure neither Obama nor Cameron or Hollande would come out with such strong soundbites if they weren't sure. They probably caught the missiles being launched on Satelite or something. You don't risk your political future on something like this. Cameron wants to run again. Nothings going to happen before Saturday anyway. Thursday the house of commons will vote on this, Friday is the holy muslim day, so Saturday or Sunday it is.
What's remarkable about all this stuff is not us being doubtful of our own media and politicians, that's fine, likely even justified, but the willingness of so many of us to always rather believe in comical ali or ghadafis spokesman has to be concerning.
At times I consider, exactly which conspiracy theory out of the many I've had to be subjected to and lectured about by educated people at dinner parties in the past 15 years has proven itself to be even remotely substantial? All about establishing permanent bases in Iraq and Afghanistan? Securing all the oil? (the emergence of fracking kinda puts a damper on the whole oil angle don't it?). Israelis and CIA blowing up the twin towers? CIA controls Al Qaida?
So here we go again, the US has given nerve gas to terrorists to justify getting involved in a mess they don't really want to get involved in ... but for better to wage war in Iran in a few years to come. Ohkay.
I say wait for the intelligence report to come out. I'm pretty sure neither Obama nor Cameron or Hollande would come out with such strong soundbites if they weren't sure. They probably caught the missiles being launched on Satelite or something. You don't risk your political future on something like this. Cameron wants to run again. Nothings going to happen before Saturday anyway. Thursday the house of commons will vote on this, Friday is the holy muslim day, so Saturday or Sunday it is.
What's remarkable about all this stuff is not us being doubtful of our own media and politicians, that's fine, likely even justified, but the willingness of so many of us to always rather believe in comical ali or ghadafis spokesman has to be concerning.
Samseau said:
I voted for Gary Johnson in the last election. But in reality we don't know if he would have done anything that different than bush and obama once he got into office.
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