Mini data sheet on tax implications for cryptocurrency trading in the United States

Plus Oultre

Woodpecker
CleanSlate said:
^ that would complicate things, for sure.

But the best we can do right now is download our transaction histories off the exchanges, put it through a tax cruncher like bitcoin.tax, and just report whatever it spits out.

That way we can say "hey, at least I tried."

Yes, you will always report your transactions (dispositions) in your US tax return; unless you want to get in trouble. I am not familiar with the tools at bitcoin.tax so I don't know how accurate they are. Ideally, you receive a 1099 from whatever organization you use for your trades.

And following in the subject .... I always advocate tax avoidance, not tax evasion. For tax avoidance to work, it has to be planned in advance and executed; it involves looking at your entire situation, including your long term goals.
 

Plus Oultre

Woodpecker
RE: Mi data sheet on tax implications for cryptocurrency trading in the United States

jamaicabound said:
Good data sheet. The only thing I would mention or question is about trading from crypto to crypto and whether the IRS will consider that a like kind exchange. I think that's still kind of up in the air from what I've heard and read.



Plus Oultre said:
I wouldn't hurry in treating two different cryptocurrencies as like-kind for the purpose of a 1031 exchange ..... section 1031 is very restrictive in this sense ....
First of all you have to qualify the property as being held for business or investment purposes. So if you are constantly exchanging the IRS will take the position that you are not holding for those purposes but rather you are trading. But even if you buy and hold for investment purposes you only cleared hurdle one. The next step will be to qualify the two cryptocurrencies as like-kind; which, in my opinion, will not be a very strong position.

Also, as an examples let's illustrate the way the IRS treats the exchange of different property:
1) metals, you can exchange gold that is valued for its metal content for other gold that is valued for its metal content. You can not exchange gold valued for its metal content for silver valued for its metal content.
2) livestock, you can exchange two livestock held for investment or breeding of the same sex .. but you can't exchange livestock of different sex.

See the pattern? in the examples above you can see the intent of section 1031 which is to replace business property or personal property held for investment for the like. They have the same nature and specific purpose. Even though I didn't find any ruling, memos, opinions directly related to the exchange of different crytocurrencies, I am confident the IRS will not allow their like kind exchange. I am sure we will see it soon play out with a real example because someone is going to try it. But unless you have the resources to challenge they IRS when they disallow your exchange, I wouldn't try it. My opinion.
 

Isaac Jordan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
RE: data sheet on tax implications for cryptocurrency trading in the United States

Plus Oultre said:
Even though I didn't find any ruling, memos, opinions directly related to the exchange of different crytocurrencies, I am confident the IRS will not allow their like kind exchange.

It's fascinating how the people who assure me this tax strategy won't work never have any evidence with which to back up that assertion.

My OP links directly to the IRS's website multiple times. I have clearly done my research and compiled a strategy based on the exact letter of the law. Crypto is classified as property, and crypto-to-crypto trades meet every requirement for 1031. It's remarkably straightforward.

While I welcome anyone who can point out flaws in my approach, simply saying "I'm confident this won't work even though I have ZERO evidence to back that up" is simply spreading FUD.

If the law changes, I'll change my strategy. But it doesn't make sense to formulate investment plans based on IMAGINARY laws that may or may not come to pass, when the current laws spell out quite clearly the structures and limitations by which cryptocurrency trades can be taxed.

As the saying goes, "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."
 

Kid Twist

 
Banned
What if you are gifted BTC or someone pays you in BTC for anything or you exchange cash for it as investment but it's not through coinbase, etc.?

Do you then report it as an "investment" property that year on your tax return so later on if you want to sell and cash out you can provide a cost basis?

Here's an example. I somehow get 10k + but less than 20k in bitcoin, let's say 3 coins. What do I do if that's not purchased from an exchange like coinbase to give me paperwork?

What if you forget to do any of this entirely, had 3 coins and in 5 years a coin all of a sudden each coin was worth $55k? What would you do then?
 

Isaac Jordan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Kid Twist said:
What if you are gifted BTC or someone pays you in BTC for anything or you exchange cash for it as investment but it's not through coinbase, etc.?

Do you then report it as an "investment" property that year on your tax return so later on if you want to sell and cash out you can provide a cost basis?

Here's an example. I somehow get 10k + but less than 20k in bitcoin, let's say 3 coins. What do I do if that's not purchased from an exchange like coinbase to give me paperwork?

What if you forget to do any of this entirely, had 3 coins and in 5 years a coin all of a sudden each coin was worth $55k? What would you do then?

Those are all great questions, but a bit outside the scope of this data sheet (particularly because in large part they'll vary depending on the jurisdiction in which you live).

I'd suggest reaching out to a local tax attorney for more personalized advice.
 

Plus Oultre

Woodpecker
I wasn't talking out of my ass .... I explained my rationale of why my opinion was such that different cryptos will not be treated as like-kind by the IRS, and I offered you two real life examples of the IRS disqualifying similar properties for the purpose of 1031 exchanges (metals and livestock.) That is what you do when there is no guideline.

Your position is not frivolous, that's good, but when you scratch the surface truly it doesn't have much chance to be sustained. We know the IRS classifies cryptos as property, but that doesn't immediately qualify them for like kind exchange. Two different cryptos are not the same, and you will have a very hard time showing they are.

I inserted myself in the conversation because I think this technique if taken to action will get people in trouble with the IRS. So my recommendation was -and still is- not to do it. My line of work puts me in close contact with the IRS daily, so my opinion has weight ... but you had no way of knowing it. So, no. I offer no evidence; however, that doesn't mean that I will not try to get you to stay out of trouble with a strategy that neither has shown evidence of working.

I shine light to the high risk of your strategy. The IRS is the one agency you don't want to mess with because it has the real potential of screwing your life up. However, if you go ahead and try your strategy make sure it is all well documented and follow all the rules of Section 1031, and I wish you good luck.

In the meantime, here is some reading. It is a very recent article, so it looks like this is a hot subject. I thank you for bringing this up, this subject picked my interest and I started researching it. If I do find a way to make it work, you will be the first one to know via this thread.

I insert the article so no need to leave the forum to read it. I hope it brings some extra light to the subject.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...rouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/#42dd16e826a8

Cryptocurrency Traders Risk IRS Trouble With Like-Kind Exchanges

Many cryptocurrency investors are inappropriately deferring capital gains taxes when they exchange one cryptocurrency for another. An example of this practice: exchanging Bitcoin for Ethereum through a cryptocurrency exchange and using IRC Section 1031 “like-kind” exchanges. But if you were to sell Bitcoin for U.S. dollars and buy Ethereum with U.S. dollars, you would have to report a capital gain or loss. Something is amiss!

Several websites encourage traders to consider Section 1031 on exchanges of cryptocurrencies, but none of them adequately state the potential risks.

“I suppose most people who don’t report exchanges between various cryptocurrencies don’t think of it as a like-kind exchange,” says Deborah King, CPA. “They just do it, and later when they don’t receive a Form 1099, they forget about reporting it.” That’s even worse.

The IRS thinks there is massive under reporting of income

It doesn’t sound like cryptocurrency investors, and traders are duly complying with Section 1031′s elaborate requirements. Few disclose Section 1031 transactions on the required Form 8824. A failed Section 1031 transaction bars tax deferral, and it generates current taxable income.


Recently, the IRS served a “John Doe” summons (the toughest kind) to the largest cryptocurrency exchange, Coinbase, to obtain its customer list for investors and traders with cryptocurrency transactions worth over $20,000. The IRS calculated that less than 900 taxpayers reported capital gain or losses on cryptocurrency transactions in 2015, an alarmingly small number. It’s feasible that many taxpayers inappropriately tried to use Section 1031 like-kind exchanges on cryptocurrency exchanges, and did not disclose it to the IRS on Form 8824, or otherwise.

Cryptocurrency transactions are not “covered instruments” on Form 1099Bs, so cryptocurrency exchanges/dealers did not furnish tax information to the IRS. The IRS also knows that many lawbreakers hide income in cryptocurrency transactions.

How do Section 1031 like-kind exchanges work?

Section 1031 allows a taxpayer to exchange, rather than sell, real property and personal property with another taxpayer in a tax-free exchange. You must hold the property for investment or productive use in a trade or business, and it excludes inventory. For example, enact a like-kind exchange with a commercial building for a shopping mall, or an automobile for another one, but not a truck.

According to Thomson Reuters Checkpoint, “If it’s a straight asset-for-asset exchange, you will not have to recognize any gain from the exchange. You will take the same ‘basis’ (your cost for tax purposes) in your new property that you had in the old property. Even if you do not have to recognize any gain on the exchange, you still have to report the exchange on Form 8824.” If you receive cash or other non-like-kind property (“boot”) in the exchange, you’re required to report boot as taxable income and adjust your cost basis.

Cryptocurrencies may not qualify as like-kind property

If it’s not like-kind property, it’s not a like-kind exchange. Section 1031 specifically excludes stocks, bonds, notes, and indebtedness. It does not mention “cryptocurrency” or “virtual currency” since Section 1031 predated the advent of cryptocurrencies.

“Transactions for two biggest cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin and Ethereum, are priced in different ways, and there are other fundamental differences, too,” says Darren Neuschwander, CPA.

The IRS could rule they are not like-kind property. It’s interesting to see how the IRS ruled on like-kind exchanges between coins and bullion. (Read Bitcoin taxation: Clarity and mystery. See the discussion of Section 1031 and the chart “Sec. 1031 rulings involving coins and bullion.”) In some cases, exchanges of gold for gold coins or silver for silver coins may qualify as like-kind property, but gold for silver coins is not like-kind property. An exchange of U.S. gold coins for South African Krugerrand gold coins was not like-kind property because the coins have a different composition. Krugerrands are bullion-type coins whose value is determined solely by metal content, where the U.S. gold coins are numismatic coins whose value depends on age, condition, number minted, and artistic merit, as well as metal content.

IRS hasn’t addressed Section 1031 on cryptocurrencies

In March 2014, the IRS issued long-awaited guidance (IRS Notice 2014-21) labeling cryptocurrency “intangible property,” but the IRS did not address the use of Section 1031. Investors and traders hold Bitcoin as a capital asset, so it receives capital gain and loss treatment. The AICPA and others requested further guidance from the IRS, including if investors could use Section 1031. The IRS has not yet answered in public.

With a lack of IRS guidance, using Section 1031 on cryptocurrency trades is uncertain, and I suggest wrong in almost all facts and circumstances. There is no “substantial authority” for its use, which would be required to avoid tax penalties.

Two-party vs. multi-party like-kind exchanges

Section 1031 is used most often in real property transactions, such as in commercial real estate. For example, taxpayer A wants to sell real property one (RP1), but defer capital gains taxes by doing a like-kind exchange for real property two (RP2). It’s unlikely that taxpayer B, owner of RP2 wants to do a like-kind exchange with A, which would otherwise be a “direct two-party exchange.”

It’s common for A to engage a “qualified intermediary” (QI) in a “multi-party like-kind exchange.” For example, A transfers RP1 to QI, who withholds cash payment to A. B transfers or sells RP2 to QI who then transfers RP2 to A, thereby completing A’s like-kind exchange. Section 1031 has many requirements including various procedures, documentation, and reporting. Non-compliance leads to a failed Section 1031 transaction, which negates tax deferral.

Like-kind exchanges are not happening on cryptocurrency exchanges

There aren’t direct two-party like-kind exchanges between trader A and B through the exchange. Trader A doesn’t meet or know trader B, and each executes their trades directly with the exchange.

There also isn’t a multi-party like-kind exchange. Taxpayer A trades on the exchange, and the exchange does not meet the Section 1031 requirement for acting as a QI in a multi-party like-kind exchange. The exchange does not complete any of the required paperwork as a QI, and the trades occur in nanoseconds, not over months.

The IRS would likely consider the exchange a dealer. Section 1031 prohibits dealers from participating in direct two-party like-kind exchanges since dealers hold inventory in a trade or business, not capital assets. The IRS would likely treat the exchange as a disqualified person in a multi-party like-kind exchange.


It might be possible for cryptocurrency holder A to execute a direct two-party exchange with holder B if he knows him and executes the transaction off-exchange. However, the IRS might not consider Bitcoin like-kind property with Ethereum.

Accuracy related penalties and the statute of limitations

The IRS is coming after cryptocurrency investors, traders and users to collect its share of the significant income made in cryptocurrencies since 2009. The IRS will likely assess accuracy related penalties: A negligence penalty of 20% and a substantial understatement penalty of 20% if you understate your income by 10% or more. (Read Avoiding Penalties and the Tax Gap.)

Don’t count on the year closing after three years. If a taxpayer omits more than 25% of taxable income (substantial omission), the statute of limitations expands to six years. If the IRS can establish a false or fraudulent return, or willful attempt to evade tax, or failure to file a return, then the year never closes. The John Doe summons on Coinbase reminds me of the IRS strong-arming foreign banks to bust Americans who hid income and assets in offshore bank accounts.

If you have under-reported income on cryptocurrency sales and exchanges, it’s wise to consult a cryptocurrency tax expert and consider amending prior tax returns before the IRS catches up with you. That may help with a request for penalty abatement or reduction. Hopefully, the IRS will issue more guidance on these questions soon. (Read my recent blog posts: How To Report Bitcoin Cash And Avoid IRS Trouble, and If You Traded Bitcoin, You Should Report Capital Gains To The IRS.)

Darren Neuschwander, CPA and Deborah King, CPA contributed to this blog post.
 

Plus Oultre

Woodpecker
Relevant only if you have to file a tax return in the US ...... see below

Kid Twist said:
What if you are gifted BTC

If someone gifts you property, they are responsible for the tax consequences.

Kid Twist said:
or someone pays you in BTC for anything

If property you report it as any other exchange of property. If in the line of business, you report it as any other income.

Kid Twist said:
or you exchange cash for it as investment but it's not through coinbase, etc.?
you report it as a disposition of assets.

Kid Twist said:
Do you then report it as an "investment" property that year on your tax return so later on if you want to sell and cash out you can provide a cost basis?

Here's an example. I somehow get 10k + but less than 20k in bitcoin, let's say 3 coins. What do I do if that's not purchased from an exchange like coinbase to give me paperwork?
Even though you don't get paperwork, you as the taxpayer are responsible for the reporting the gain or the loss.

Kid Twist said:
What if you forget to do any of this entirely, had 3 coins and in 5 years a coin all of a sudden each coin was worth $55k? What would you do then?
if you sold the coin today, you report this this year; it doesn't matter what the value of the coin is even the day after you disposed of it.
In cases of unreported income, they will normally go back 3 years; however in some circumstances -if substantial- they will go back 6 years, and in fraud cases the statue of limitation never closes.
 

Isaac Jordan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
RE: Mini data sheet on tax implications for cryptocurrency trading in the U.S.

Quick update: unfortunately the new 2018 tax bill explicitly limits 1031 exchanges to real estate transactions, meaning all crypto-to-crypto trades from Jan 1, 2018 going forward will be considered taxable events.

There are ways around this, like (possibly) moving to Puerto Rico, or buying and holding in order to take advantage of long-term capital gains.

If you do insist on trading, I would again recommend cointracking.info. I've been using it for almost a year now and it has proved invaluable come tax time (not to mention having access to all sorts of other data). You can create a free account, although they'll ask you to upgrade once you hit 200 trades. If you're planning on buying an account, PM me for a referral code and I'll walk you through a couple of tips/tricks/things to be aware of as you use the software.

Happy trading fellas!
 

Lampwick

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Isaac Jordan said:
Quick update: unfortunately the new 2018 tax bill explicitly limits 1031 exchanges to real estate transactions, meaning all crypto-to-crypto trades from Jan 1, 2018 going forward will be considered taxable events.

Crypto-to-crypto trades have effectively always been taxable events. As Plus Oultre pointed out, it is highly unlikely that crypto-to-crypto trades would ever qualify for 1031 treatment. It's wishful thinking. If someone made serious money in crypto and tries this, he is basically sending an invitation to the IRS to come fuck him up. The IRS will wait multiple years to retroactively audit tax returns, so as to maximize penalties and interest.

If you do insist on trading, I would again recommend cointracking.info. I've been using it for almost a year now and it has proved invaluable come tax time (not to mention having access to all sorts of other data).

I have found cointracking.info useful as a tool to aggregate and normalize trades from multiple exchanges. But their methodology for calculating realized gains and taxes on crypto-to-crypto trades is flawed. Bitcoin.tax appears to do the calculations correctly. I can explain further if desired, but I don't want to derail the thread.
 
Lampwick said:
Isaac Jordan said:
Quick update: unfortunately the new 2018 tax bill explicitly limits 1031 exchanges to real estate transactions, meaning all crypto-to-crypto trades from Jan 1, 2018 going forward will be considered taxable events.

Crypto-to-crypto trades have effectively always been taxable events. As Plus Oultre pointed out, it is highly unlikely that crypto-to-crypto trades would ever qualify for 1031 treatment. It's wishful thinking. If someone made serious money in crypto and tries this, he is basically sending an invitation to the IRS to come fuck him up. The IRS will wait multiple years to retroactively audit tax returns, so as to maximize penalties and interest.

If you do insist on trading, I would again recommend cointracking.info. I've been using it for almost a year now and it has proved invaluable come tax time (not to mention having access to all sorts of other data).

I have found cointracking.info useful as a tool to aggregate and normalize trades from multiple exchanges. But their methodology for calculating realized gains and taxes on crypto-to-crypto trades is flawed. Bitcoin.tax appears to do the calculations correctly. I can explain further if desired, but I don't want to derail the thread.

This is a very good advice and I would advise anyone who used Section 1031 to defer taxes on crypto exchanges to go and amend their previous tax returns. You are basically begging IRS to come after you. Here is what IRS guidance states;

Finally, certain types of property are specifically excluded from Section 1031 treatment. Section 1031 does not apply to exchanges of:

Inventory or stock in trade
Stocks, bonds, or notes
Other securities or debt
Partnership interests
Certificates of trust

Cryptoassests fall into other securities category. The following article will help you to figure out some strategies and is very informative:

https://www.coindesk.com/active-crypto-traders-can-save-us-taxes/
 
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