Modesty

Kitty Tantrum

Woodpecker
Woman
See, I don't think my husband liking something, or my being married while doing/wearing that something, or that something being "feminine" makes it any more modest.

Most men will have a natural visual preference for immodesty, without necessarily understanding that's what it is.

I'll wear pretty much ANYTHING my husband wants me to. In the privacy of our bedroom.

It is a pride/ego thing for a man to enjoy "being seen" with a dolled-up woman in his company. I'm not comfortable compromising my modesty for that. I've seen and experienced the natural conclusion of that mindset left unchecked.

If women actually wore makeup FOR THEIR HUSBANDS, if it were not actually about PUBLIC appearance... you'd see the exact inverse of reality: women getting dolled up to STAY IN, and keeping their appearances plain to GO OUT.
 

Leeloo

Woodpecker
Woman
No.

But there’s a fine line between modest women wearing their (husband’s) favorite shade of feminine lipstick, and an attention-seeker with lip fillers looking to draw sexual focus to their mouth.

Edit: it seems I should add that I included the ‘husband’ part of my reply with the natural assumption that a woman would be wearing it while with him, and if he preferred it.
I also agree with one of the other commenters that a natural shade goes without saying, which I thought was implied, but I should have been more specific in my initial comment.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Woodpecker
Woman
it seems I should add that I included the ‘husband’ part of my reply with the natural assumption that a woman would be wearing it while with him, and if he preferred it.
I don't see how the husband's presence or preference makes something modest which otherwise would not be.

"It's okay to compromise on modesty if my husband likes it." (Arguably true to a certain extent.)

Is not same as

"My husband prefers it, so that makes it modest." (Dangerous conflation/moving of goalposts.)
 

Leeloo

Woodpecker
Woman
I don't see how the husband's presence or preference makes something modest which otherwise would not be.

"It's okay to compromise on modesty if my husband likes it." (Arguably true to a certain extent.)

Is not same as

"My husband prefers it, so that makes it modest." (Dangerous conflation/moving of goalposts.)

I see what you’re saying. I was hoping that my edit would clarify that my opinion was more in line with your first interpretation, rather than the second. We don’t have to agree, naturally. The definition of modesty would be subjective on said particular couple, of course.
I think you and I are somewhat on the same page. In my household, my husband says he likes me better without makeup, but he also appreciates if I ‘doll myself up’ for him for special occasions.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
.
See, I don't think my husband liking something, or my being married while doing/wearing that something, or that something being "feminine" makes it any more modest.

Most men will have a natural visual preference for immodesty, without necessarily understanding that's what it is.

I'll wear pretty much ANYTHING my husband wants me to. In the privacy of our bedroom.

It is a pride/ego thing for a man to enjoy "being seen" with a dolled-up woman in his company. I'm not comfortable compromising my modesty for that. I've seen and experienced the natural conclusion of that mindset left unchecked.

If women actually wore makeup FOR THEIR HUSBANDS, if it were not actually about PUBLIC appearance... you'd see the exact inverse of reality: women getting dolled up to STAY IN, and keeping their appearances plain to GO OUT.
Furthermore, why would a man want his wife to be "dolled up" (i.e. covering up her natural facial features) even in the privacy of their own home? What does it say about a marriage if the man isn't satisfied with his wife's natural look and instead wants her to alter her face artificially?
 
Furthermore, why would a man want his wife to be "dolled up" (i.e. covering up her natural facial features) even in the privacy of their own home? What does it say about a marriage if the man isn't satisfied with his wife's natural look and instead wants her to alter her face artificially?

If the Husband cannot wake up next to his wife without makeup on. I don't think he should have bothered marrying that wife.
 

messaggera

Woodpecker
Woman
I guess so. Modesty can be a synonym for humility. The same basis as far as I'm concerned, but I would be interested in the origins of both words.


The following is from Russian Faith [Link]

In other words, if you want to get to heaven by yourself, by pride, you will meet the Devil, the Deceiver. We can only get to heaven with God, with humility. That is the only way. In prayer, we must pay no attention to feelings, thoughts and mental images, especially if they give us a feeling of sweetness and make us ‘feel good’ or feel relaxed. They are all there to distract us.

The key to all this is humility. If prayer makes you humble then it is good. Others will let you know about this, whether in a monastery or in your family – listen to them and their frank opinions. If you feel insulted and offended by them, then you are in a state of pride, spiritual delusion. If ‘prayer’ makes you feel superior to, better than, others, and you cannot possibly go to their ‘inferior’ churches, then that is not prayer, but the thought of yourself, not of God.

This is why there is no meditation in Orthodoxy. For Orthodox it leads to sin. Self-concentration and focusing on your internal abilities only increases pride. But we seek humility. This difference is a result of the different theology or understanding of how the Holy Spirit comes to us.

Difference between Orthodox and Roman Catholics - How Holy Spirit comes to us:

For Orthodox it is directly from God the Father, for Roman Catholics through some human mediation, thought (contemplation or meditation), study or manipulation.
 

Vigilant

Woodpecker
Woman
Like I said, the medium is the message.

The "medium" being audio/video recordings and/or broadcasts, not merely your face and voice.

Modern technology (and by "modern" I mean everything post-Industrial revolution and even some pre-Industrial technologies) changes everything. It is unnatural and lends itself to ungodliness. It is not a coincidence that events such as the Protestant Reformation, the "Enlightement," Freemasonry, the American and French Revolutions, communism, and the "sexual revolution" all happened during timed of great technological advancement.

If something as relatively simple as the inventon of the printing press can cause something as monumental as the Protestant Reformation, imagine what kind of societal changes can result from widespread adoption of more advanced technologies.

So no, I don't think it's wrong for women to speak and/or show their faces in public. I do think it is wrong for them to use audio/video broadcasts and recordings.

Is it wrong for men to use audio/video media? I don't know. I think the world would be a better place if audio/video media technology (and the Interntet) did not exist. But for men, I don't think the medium lends itself to immodesty as universally as it does for women. Although men who become internet-famous tend to become prideful, which I suppose is a form of immodesty.

The difference is, as a woman, you could make a vlog and do everything right (dress modestly, speak softly, behave in a feminine manner, etc.) and men will still be drawn to your vlog based on your sexual attractiveness.

On your question of whether it is different if it were an all-female audience, I suppose it would be different. But how are you going to enforce a female-only rule if you're brosdcasting on the Internet?
"Is it wrong for men to use audio/video media? I don't know. I think the world would be a better place if audio/video media technology (and the Interntet) did not exist. But for men, I don't think the medium lends itself to immodesty as universally as it does for women. Although men who become internet-famous tend to become prideful, which I suppose is a form of immodesty.

The difference is, as a woman, you could make a vlog and do everything right (dress modestly, speak softly, behave in a feminine manner, etc.) and men will still be drawn to your vlog based on your sexual attractiveness.

On your question of whether it is different if it were an all-female audience, I suppose it would be different. But how are you going to enforce a female-only rule if you're brosdcasting on the Internet?"



I'm inclined to agree with the above quote . A woman's protection is in her submission to her own husband, not men in general, and media provides the exposure and vulnerability of the weaker sex. I still get conflicted whether I should be contributing at all on the internet through a text presence.
 

Jen18

Chicken
Woman
For me, dressing modestly means that my clothes are appropriate for what I am doing that day, I feel comfortable in what I am wearing, and that I am not choosing an outfit for the purpose of attracting attention.

I no longer use social media and would not follow any ‘influencers’. But if I was in your position and looking online for inspiration for fitness, it wouldn’t concern me if someone was wearing leggings or shorts and a sports bra because for that purpose I would want to be able to see their body to be able to study their technique. Sure, they don’t need to be wearing booty shorts or see-through clothing for this, so if they are and it bothers you, keep looking for someone you are comfortable with. Have you searched online for Christian fitness instructors?

My mother is a group fitness instructor and usually wears long tights and a long singlet/tank top thing to work. I overheard her complaining with her friend last night that another instructor wears bralettes and tiny booty shorts to work and how they thought it was unprofessional.
Be careful about gossip or criticizing another woman, though, because then you, yourself, are falling prey to sin and demons.
 

messaggera

Woodpecker
Woman
I'm inclined to agree with the above quote . A woman's protection is in her submission to her own husband, not men in general, and media provides the exposure and vulnerability of the weaker sex.

Be cautious of the wife who is easily identified and who is continuously publicizing her life online to allow other men to make comments only her husband should make to her. Respect (for the husband) should be considered essential rather than a wife's public display of vanity and pride open to other men.

I still get conflicted whether I should be contributing at all on the internet through a text presence.

I have too, but all that is given are words without vanity or pride and with no identification. I am very blessed in my marriage with my husband - we made a commitment to each other we take very seriously. Our focus is on the benefit for our family, and we cherish our privacy.
 

Durden347

Sparrow
This is just a random observation only tangentially related to the topic, but in my experience at the gym, women who are serious about working out tend to be dressed in a T-shirt and gym shorts or other boring/practical clothing.

Women in butt-flaunting yoga pants, crop tops, and other form-fitting and/or expensive looking clothes are at the gym to be seen.
Yep. Spot on observation. Not to mention, excessive selfie taking. These go hand in hand.
 

messaggera

Woodpecker
Woman
Be cautious of the wife who is easily identified and who is continuously publicizing her life online to allow other men to make comments only her husband should make to her. Respect (for the husband) should be considered essential rather than a wife's public display of vanity and pride open to other men.

Titus 2: 4-5

4 that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the Word of God be not blasphemed.

Webster Third New International Dictionary 1976 defines:

Discreet: possessed of or displaying discernment or good judgement in conduct, especially in speech.

Chaste: free from lewdness, obscenity, indecency, suggestiveness or offensiveness.. free of connections of association with anything crass, sordid, impure, or debasing. - Not providing an opportunity for lustful thoughts of others.
 
Be cautious of the wife who is easily identified and who is continuously publicizing her life online to allow other men to make comments only her husband should make to her. Respect (for the husband) should be considered essential rather than a wife's public display of vanity and pride open to other men.



I have too, but all that is given are words without vanity or pride and with no identification. I am very blessed in my marriage with my husband - we made a commitment to each other we take very seriously. Our focus is on the benefit for our family, and we cherish our privacy.

No one has any business publicising any aspect of their life online. Do they really want to expose themselves and their households to any potential danger?

I think the Internet is best served by Anonymous handles and truthful discussion or memes. Likewise even under anonymous handles its best not to give any details of family life as much as possible.

I think its good practice for Men to not mention his family as much as possible online and presenting as a bachelor. Its a good safety measure.
 
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