Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.

[Suits]

^^^This guy fucks.

 

[Hannibal]

The OP is fat, but he's not a retard and he knows exactly what he has to do.

What he lacks is willpower and none of us are going to give it to him.

 

[AneroidOcean]

That is why wise people usually go to qualified trained doctors for medical advice, who can defend their qualification with a documentation proving training and experience, rather than by posting reactive anger on the internet.

Your entire argument seems written in a haughty, educated tone, like you're looking down on everyone from your ivory tower of righteousness. Yet your words sound like someone using a faux educated tone, or at least they read so:

1. "qualified trained" is redundant, if a doctor is qualified the training is implied.

2. "documentation" is plural, hence no need for the singular "a" before it.

And on and on in your writing.

Stop trying to out-dictionary people, it's not effective.

 

[Suits]

Ironically, Phoenix has never been vetted by anyone.

Not that he is obligated to be. There are many reasons why it would be smart for members in certain situations to carefully protect their anonymity.

But he's not really in the position to be tell others what the definition of qualified is.

 

[Thomas the Rhymer]

Etwsake, were you asking for weight loss advice or advice on how to deal with your depression and your insomnia? Your initial post is a bit ambiguous as to what you really need.

 

[Guitarman]

A Ketogenic diet will help you lose weight, sleep better AND improve your mood/ depression.

Ditch the sugar and starch, go low carb!

 

[Tokyo Joe]

This will be my last post in this thread. I am back in touch privately with etwsake, someone I have traded messages with over the past 18 months and someone I consider a friend. He knows I am willing to offer him my help -- including in navigating the confusing Japanese medical system, to get his sleep tests done for starters -- if he decides he needs it.

***

You're not qualified, as some poster on the internet, unless you're willing to post your redacted record sheets of your clients progresses, including those who failed against your advice, or your evidence of formal study.

Just so we are all clear here: According to Phoenix, no one on this Forum is qualified to provide basic dietary or fitness advice unless he provides suitable evidence of formal study -- that is, he needs to show that he is a credentialed member of the Western medical/nutrition establishment. The very same Establishment that holds the following to be tenets of "settled science": Men should eat a high-carb, low-fat diet; cardio is the preferred method of exercise; intake of dietary cholesterol (such as in eggs) should be held to a minimum; high serum LDL levels should be medicated with statins, -- and on and on in a whole line of garbage "consensus" that has been peddled to an unthinking public for decades, with disastrous results.

Phoenix, thank you for stepping right up and very helpfully removing yourself from the chance of being taken seriously here any longer -- it saves us all a great deal of trouble. From now on, whenever anyone wonders where you are coming from with regard to dietary or work-out advice on the Forum, I will point them here so they know you can be safely ignored.

Yes I'll admit I failed...

Good. This admission is the first step on the road to greatness. I wish you all the best.

I get the feeling you're actually quite an aggressive person in real life when you perceive people pipe up against you.

:jordan:

Kid, your knack for arm-chair psychology is rivaled only by your understanding of health and fitness. In person I am the mellowest grape on the vine -- and I am willing to bet that any number of the 70 real men of the Forum I have met in person would agree.

The comedy is not lost on me, or anyone here, that you would label me "poster Tokyo Joe." Of the two of us, you are the only "poster" here; I am a meeter and a doer. I am not hiding behind a keyboard in "Japan" or "in my Mum's basement in suburban Adelaide."

Good luck to you, lad.



***
EDITED to add --

Thomas the Rhymer: Good to see you here. It's been a while. We know you are a certified medical doctor but I am terribly sorry to tell you that you are not allowed to dispense any health, nutrition, or fitness advice to etwsake until you have submitted official copies of your records of formal study to Phoenix. Thank you.:icon_biggrin:

 

[ElFlaco]

2. "documentation" is plural, hence no need for the singular "a" before it.

An example of Muphry's Law

 

[Giovonny]

I'm qualified to give dietary advice.

Food addiction is real. Addiction can lead to depression.

Depression + Obesity = death.

You are basically committing a slow suicide. You probably feel sorry for yourself and feel like you got a bad break in life...

You're gonna fucking die and its a damn shame cause if you would just make an effort to take control of your mind, you certainly could and then you could be in decent shape and literally have sex with pretty girls....

But, it just all depends what you want... Do you want to eat candy and jerk off or eat right and fuck bitches?

Your life will be what you make it.

No one is holding you back.

 

[Captain Gh]

When it comes to Nutrition... I've seen and tried them in my quest to be ripped. I'm a lifetime Bodybuilding fan, so therefore was always attracted to the Nutritional field deeply. My conclusion is that when it comes to nutrition, there's something that we don't know about our human body. so many people can't be wrong about Nutrition!

You've got lean as Fuck Asian eating White Rice, not even Brown or Basmati rice, and then you have mofos like me who smell Rice... and gain a tire around their waist. And then you have the Keto dieters looking full and ripped while gorging on Bacon & Eggs... when I get a twice as Big tire around my waist if I eat above 10G of fat per day.

Ran detailed diet test of Keto, Vegan & Low Carbs on myself. And the funny thing is I just realized recently that it's not carbs per say that my body can't handle well... but the breakdown of complex carbs. My theory is that by eating so much Rice in the past... I probably damaged some of my enzymes responsible for the breakdown of complex carbohydrate... or maybe never had them, or not as much as Asian people... I don't know?

My experience with High Fat is even worse! Even by pre-depleting... fat acts like a Baloon on me, and would make me look like Lindy West within 5 days! Even quality Fats like Almonds & Brazilian Nuts! My situation is far from being dramatic like OP since I'm lean... but I'm looking to get ripped with a flat belly... so I have to find my own Switzerland to get there!

Maybe this will help some of you out there who wonder which diet is THE DIET. My answer is NONE! You have to guess & test! Dalaran posted some pics a while back... and he looked full and ripped... while gorging on White Rice all day err day like he admitted on this thread earlier, so He can't be dismissed! But at the same time... you've got Tokyo Joe & many other explaining the science & logic behind the state of ketosis... and the science behind it is fantastic & brilliant... so it can't be dismissed as well.

It does't work for me... but I know it does for so many mofos who cannot function on carbs. So if you're reading this OP... you'll have to guess & test some diet templates as well. If you react extremely well to healthy nuts & all... then keto might be for you. Next, eliminate all starch while keeping fruits & veggies along with low fat... and check. 1 of these two approach should give you fantastic results since all lean mofos do one of these two approaches. Most importantly... no matter what you do... You'll be feeling these cravings for a bit my man. Hang in there... and most importantly... take ACTIONS...NOW!

And NEVER EVER EVER stay inside of your room for an entire day. This one IS A MUST TO FALLOW! The natural movements of walking activates your entire body, and stimulates your mind just by the choreography of balancing your body for walking. Walking was also considered as a strong aid in battling depression until big pharma came into the picture. Even if it's 5 minute to walk around the Block! Be like Nike on this one... and Just do It! Good luck

tl;dr: My opinion is that different people have different enzymes to handle certain foods. High carb & Vegan people stay lean, while Paleo & Keto dieters who were depressed on Cabs are thriving on Low Carb with a mix of Protein & Fats. Both groups are rights since they're lean!

 

[Captain Gh]

My experience with High Fat is even worse! Even by pre-depleting... fat acts like a Baloon on me, and would make me look like Lindy West within 5 days!

:jordan:

Ohhhhhh shit! I just had to laugh at myself for that line

Goddamn!

 

[ElFlaco]

My theory is that by eating so much Rice in the past... I probably damaged some of my enzymes responsible for the breakdown of complex carbohydrate...

That theory is called insulin resistance. It's real. Not enzymes but hormones.

I applaud your effort to try various diets and see what works for you.

Food addiction is real.

Food addiction is real because food affects your mood -- and different foods affect your mood differently.

I used to have an Oreo addiction. Then Fritos. Then Diet Coke. And so on. Every day my mind would start wandering and the thought would arrive, "Hey, maybe I should go get some Oreos." And I would. It was naive to think that I was in control of these thoughts arriving. It was almost as if they were planted there. My brain wanted the high it got from Oreos, so it sent me a message that it might be a good idea to go and get some. The addiction model explains this. Although I haven't had Oreos or Fritos in years, even as I write this I find that I'm salivating. Or as they say, once an addict, always an addict.

 

[The Lizard of Oz]

etwsake,

A lot of the advice you received in this thread is excellent and all of it is well-intentioned. However, much of it is counterproductive at this point because it reinforces the main problem you have.

Unlike what you and others believe, that main problem isn't that you're fat. The main problem is that you consider yourself a "loser" and you have intense emotions of shame and self-loathing about being fat, and other supposed failures. These emotions of shame and self-loathing are making you miserable and preventing you from being able to solve your other problems (which are really not all that bad). Once you can let go of these negative thoughts and emotions, you will have a much better life. Maybe you will still be fat, and maybe you won't be; either way, it's not the end of the world.

You need to stop this cycle of guilt and self-flagellation. It's of no use to you, and it's not necessary. This is the real work you have to do, and it's far more important than losing weight.

I wrote this post to you about a year ago in a different thread, and every word in it remains true and relevant. Please read it carefully and more than once. And I hope you will take a look at the REBT thread linked to at the end of the post, and also consider talking to a CBT/REBT therapist; I'm sure you can find one in Japan or even online if necessary.

Here is the post from last year:

etwsake,

The intense emotions of self-loathing that you are feeling are the result of certain thoughts. You feel a certain way because you think a certain way.

Instead of just trying to change the way you feel, you should examine those thoughts. Are they really true, and justified? Are they rational? Or are they completely irrational and persist because they've never been examined, but you just accept them and take them for granted.

Here are some examples:

You're fat, and have gained 30 pounds in the past 2 months as you say.

Here are your thoughts:

-- It is a disaster to be so fat. It's a catastrophic situation that MUST not be
-- I'll always be fat and will never be able to lose weight. So the catastrophe continues and there is no hope.

Now, are these thoughts TRUE?

No, they're not. Here is the reality:

First, being fat is not ideal -- it is better for your health and looks to have a normal weight. So it's unfortunate.

But just because it's unfortunate, is it a CATASTROPHE, is it a DISASTER? No, it sure isn't. People who are fat can have perfectly good and enjoyable lives. There are many successful people, politicians, actors, scientists, whatever, -- as well as just normal people -- who are fat. It's not ideal but is it the end of the world? Of course not. It's really not the worst problem to have.

You have to understand that this is the TRUTH: being fat is not ideal, but it's also not a life-ending disaster. You always thought it was a shameful catastrophe, but it just isn't. You need to examine the irrational thought that leads to these feeling of shame and despair.

There are other things:

You probably think that being fat shows that you have no ability to control yourself -- you overeat and can't control that, and this is SHAMEFUL and shows that you are a loser who has no willpower. And this is some sort of disaster.

Guess what -- again, you are catastrophizing the situation. It may be true that you've had little self-control with respect to this. So fucking what? It's not the end of the world. Yes, it's a flaw -- it would be better if you had more self-control. But is it a disaster, a catastrophe, a reason for your life to end because it's so shameful? Of course not, in fact that is a LAUGHABLE idea. But you believe it because you've never once considered that it might just be wrong.

Further, you believe that because things have been a certain way in the past, they can never change in the future. Again, this is just objectively not true. Things can and do change sometimes, it may not be easy and it may take a number of tries but it does happen. You think, oh but it can never happen to me, I'm a LOSER. Well maybe, but how can you be so sure? What is it that allows you to know the future all the way to the end? Are you a seer and a prophet as well as a "loser"? You just "know" it will never change. HOW do you know that?

And again, suppose it never changes. Suppose you always remain fat, suppose you don't achieve some other goals. Does that mean that you can't enjoy your life in other ways? Of course not. If you let go of your self-loathing and just RELAX you could enjoy it a great deal. You don't have to win every battle. It's best to address a flaw; but sometimes it can be accepted. Either way, it's not a catastrophe, you're just making it into one.

All you really need to do is not drink alcohol because that IS a path that can quickly become something like a catastrophe. There are ways to come back from that as well but it's best to just not go down that path. And of course there is no need to.

You may benefit from reading the following thread about REBT/CBT and reading Albert Ellis' "Guide to Rational Living". All these extreme emotions are the result of irrational ideas and bad habits of thought; if you challenge and dispute the irrational ideas, the emotions will change as well:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-28873.html

I hope you find these thoughts to be of some use.

 

[etwsake]

Thank you TLOZ.

And thanks to everyone that posted in this thread or sent me PMs. Thank you for reading my words and having empathy for a stranger's struggle.

I haven't made the progress I want to. When I do, and I have something to report, I will make an update here.

 

[Suits]

Thank you TLOZ.

And thanks to everyone that posted in this thread or sent me PMs. Thank you for reading my words and having empathy for a stranger's struggle.

I haven't made the progress I want to. When I do, and I have something to report, I will make an update here.

Post your current weight once every week to keep yourself accountable, regardless of your success each week.

 

[rainy]

Not to come down too hard on anybody in this thread, but a lot of this advice is worthless.

So much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin, nor do I have the patience to pick the whole thing apart.

"Commit to a new, healthy and active lifestyle" is worthless pablum that you can find in any diet book, and that's plastered over the walls of every doctor's office in the country.
Same with advice like "You have to want to lose weight!" and "No one can do it for you!"

It's a worthless platitude if you don't have a clue what you're talking about. OP didn't ask for a diet plan, a workout plan, some HIIT programs he can do. But by and large, anyone who goes from 300 lbs and can barely get off the couch to being fit and healthy absolutely adopts a different lifestyle, a healthy lifestyle.

If you phrase it as "You have to make permanent lifestyle changes, and ensure that your diet is something you can maintain long term rather than thinking this is something you do short-term and then stop" then yes, it's useful, but it's ONLY useful to someone who's already dieting currently. To a guy who's breaking 300 pounds and has no idea where to begin it's useless.

Nope. The idea adopting a healthy lifestyle which you can undertake long term only works for someone who's currently dieting is a bunch of nonsense. OP doesn't even need to diet, just make healthy changes and switch to lower calorie and healthier foods which are more filling.

Samuel will have you believe eating 1lb of fresh salmon with a large green salad and greek yogurt mixed with chocolate protein powder for desert will produce the same "lack of feeling full" feeling that pigging out on McDonald's will. It's bullshit.

I despise the "You just need more willpower! Stop embracing your laziness!" school of thought in regards to dieting more than about any other modern ideology, except perhaps fat acceptance. People who've been trying to lose weight have been hearing this throughout my entire lifetime, and the number of people who successfully lose weight and keep it off is essentially negligible. Every year people hear "Diet harder!" and every year the obesity rate goes up. It has a worse track record than global warming. IT DOESN'T WORK. It very clearly didn't work for you, because you had to do it several times despite being a personal trainer.

Hate it all you want but you're pure emotion at this point. You've been triggered. And it sure as hell does work, eating healthier and adopting a healthier lifestyle. Worked for me, worked for my clients, worked for numerous others despite your hysterics.

Morbidly obese people like OP have incredibly fucked up hunger hormones, and trying to fight these hormones is basically impossible. FAT PEOPLE DON'T GET FULL.

OP, do yourself a favor and disregard this type of nonsense. "Fat people" will get plenty full if eating the right types of food. Eat crap, eat processed food chalk full of chemicals, chemicals which make you hungrier while also releasing opiate like effects on your brain will prevent you from feeling full. Hence why you need to change the types of foods you eat.

If you're morbidly obese and you're reading this, here's my advice:

GET YOUR SLEEP CHECKED.

Yes OP, dismiss exercise, dismiss trying to increase your activity levels, dismiss eating healthier, natural, preferably organic foods which are lower in calories, keep you feeling more satiated, are digested far easier and improve your overall health and instead, just get your sleep checked.

That's sarcasm obviously and I'm sure the OP can see that.

 

[Suits]

Eat crap, eat processed food chalk full of chemicals, chemicals which make you hungrier while also releasing opiate like effects on your brain will prevent you from feeling full. Hence why you need to change the types of foods you eat.

Isn't everything in the world composed of chemicals, the definition of which is any combination of elements?

 

[rainy]

Eat crap, eat processed food chalk full of chemicals, chemicals which make you hungrier while also releasing opiate like effects on your brain will prevent you from feeling full. Hence why you need to change the types of foods you eat.

Isn't everything in the world composed of chemicals, the definition of which is any combination of elements?

Not exactly. There's a difference between what occurs naturally in nature(like the sugar in dates) and pumping processed foods full of salt, MSG, mountains of refined sugar, acrylamide, various coloring and additives, high fructose corn syrup, most flour/gluten, etc.

Just about every major food company, the non-organic ones at least, have scientists and chemists on their payrolls to design chemical reactions which make you crave more and feel less full. That's why people actually start feeling hungry when driving by a fast food burger joint, the smell and release of the chemicals fuck with your brain.

Ever wonder why you can eat a full container of something like Pringles and be hungry 30 mins later but a three egg omelette keeps you full for a few hours?

 

[SamuelBRoberts]

I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself poorly or if some members are just extremely dense.
I don't really care if potato-boy or rainy gets it, but I'm concerned that if they're having trouble following my argument, I'm concerned other people might be as well. So I'll lay it out once more, as simply as I can, using numbered bullet points and short sentences.

1.) The ratio of successful dieters is terrible! One study I read shows that only 7% of people who diet succeed!
2.) The common wisdom is that 93% of people just aren't trying hard enough. They aren't "Committing to a new, healthy and active lifestyle!" If only they would understand that "No one can do it for you!", the obesity problem that plagues the entire west would disappear overnight.
3.) The common wisdom is a horrific failure. Every year people are told the same platitudes. Every year they start diets with the best of intentions. Every year they fail.
4.) One major reason diets fail is that their hormone system is fucked up. This makes dieting nigh-impossible, because your own body is fighting you every step of the way.
5.) The body's hormonal system is complex, and not well-understood. But there are three things we know that affect hunger: sleep apnea (poor sleep in general), stress, and thyroid problems.
6.) But all of these things have fixes and treatments! With a couple doctor's visits and some tests, you can get many of your hormonal problems resolved, and once you realize that stress is a problem, you can start to avoid it.
7.) Once you've fixed these problems, your diet will become much more likely to succeed. You'll have more energy and fewer cravings.

Is this hard? I don't think this is hard, but people keep acting like this is something hard.

 

[Suits]

Eat crap, eat processed food chalk full of chemicals, chemicals which make you hungrier while also releasing opiate like effects on your brain will prevent you from feeling full. Hence why you need to change the types of foods you eat.

Isn't everything in the world composed of chemicals, the definition of which is any combination of elements?

Not exactly. There's a difference between what occurs naturally in nature(like the sugar in dates) and pumping processed foods full of salt, MSG, mountains of refined sugar, acrylamide, various coloring and additives, high fructose corn syrup, most flour/gluten, etc.

But as far as the actual definition of what a chemical is, are eggs not composed of chemicals just as everything else is, including chemical additives?