Most Relationships Built Using Game Will Fail

Roosh

Cardinal
Originally posted on RooshV.com

I occasionally hear men exclaim how they successfully used game to find a beautiful girlfriend or loving foreign bride. They didn’t need God at all to land her but a set of social skills they learned from a book, or merely the ability to purchase a ticket to Thailand, and now intend to live happily ever after. While a few secular men will hit the lottery and get lucky with relationships, most will find that theories of attraction and game are nowhere near enough to create and maintain a lifelong bond.

Game is a secular tool and therefore any woman you get from it will also be secular. The more that game “worked” on your woman, the more secular she is, and if you successfully used game on a self-described “Christian” woman, she may need to examine her faith. All secular unions that involve game or physical attraction are transactional, driven by temporary feelings of happiness, pleasure, and pride. Such a relationship may give you a high amount of satisfaction in the short-term, but those feelings will quickly change. The eyes will start to roam, the desire for something novel will grow, and the cold heart will move on to something more exciting, causing the relationship to deteriorate or end.

If you find a woman who doesn’t have God in her life, no matter how beautiful or moral she may be, her thoughts, words, and deeds are being driven by a secular and materialistic foundation. She may give you pleasure in the here and now, and she may even give you children, but what happens when she inevitably gets bored of you or tired of being your wife? What happens when another man offers her a better deal that makes her believe she will be happier? Besides, how loyal can a secular woman really be? Outside of our loyalty to Christ, there is no loyalty among man, and what may seem like loyalty to you is really a feeling of resignation that you’re the best she could get from sampling all the other goods on the sexual market. She stays with you just like how I stay with the car I’m driving—it would be too arduous and perhaps too expensive to swap it out for another. I’ll deal with it until it completely breaks down, which in the secular female mind means “I’m not happy” or “I’m bored.”

A devout Christian woman has loyalty to Christ. She wants to serve Him now and be fully rewarded in the next life for her faith. This means allowing her husband to serve as priest of the “little church” they created through the sacrament of marriage, to follow Him as she would Christ. She is not constantly looking for a better deal because there is no better deal beyond Christ, and she knows that a lasting union will aid in her salvation. Satan will tempt her, and she may make mistakes, but we pray that such a woman can maintain her faith and serve her husband as he serves her.



A spiritual union that fails is a spiritual battle that was lost, the triumph of evil over good in that particular church, instead of the case of a secular woman who just wanted to feel sexy or get attention from men who knew how to push her emotional buttons. For those men who found a secular woman, and are convinced that game will preserve the relationship, they will learn the hard way that only God can preserve a relationship. The temporary joy they are receiving will soon be exposed for what it really is—a fleeting transaction that resembles the buying and selling of stocks like we see today in a culture that promotes the constant swapping in and out of romantic partners.

“But Roosh, game really does work! I started using it and I got a girl!” Tell me about that girl. Tell me about her lack of faith, her lack of daily prayer rule, her lack of desire to serve as the Body of Christ in his Church. Are you sure your game reward is not a punishment? Are you sure that the social moves and tricks you learned didn’t thrust you into bed with a woman who knows even more tricks than you? Game is simply the exercise of becoming a bad actor to attract a bad actress—you will receive exactly what you are. So what if you lack confidence or are socially awkward. So what if you’re nervous around women and don’t know what to say. As a Christian man, put your faith in God to match you with a woman who is suitable for you and all your flaws instead of acting like a clown for the short entirety of any union you create through your own power.

When I meet a woman today, I’m nice, perhaps excessively so. I may slouch my body, smile in meekness, and not use any of the game tricks I’ve spent nearly two decades mastering. If she is a worldly woman, she will be turned off immediately and run into the arms of a man who spends more time at the bench press than bowing before the Holy Altar, who knew that she needed entertaining stories, a cocky attitude, and a t-shirt one size too small, but a Christian woman would not be turned off by me, for she will see me as a faithful servant of Christ. “He is like Christ; he is a man who will bring me closer to Him. Lord, if this man is for me, let your will be known.” And if there is no woman like this then I will exist in my little church of one, and serve Him alone instead of a worldly woman who, through ignorance or pride, serves Satan.

Don’t believe all the men online who brag about their “perfect” girlfriends or wives. It’s a simple matter to broadcast to the world how secular strivings lead to secular results. A huge part of the American economy is based on schemes, technology, and social networking platforms that cater to this very fact. Through photos or text, you can share the news of your hot girlfriend, awesome vacation, or expensive car. “Look at me, I’m permanently happy! And if you give me your attention, praise, or money, you’ll be happy too!” Yet I’m sure you know someone who makes their lives appear fabulous online when in reality they’re miserable. The lie here is “my life is better than yours” or “my girl is hotter than yours.” If someone required strangers online to validate them, their life is not as good as they make it out to be, because a genuinely good life is validation enough.



The more someone publicly boasts of their “happiness,” the less happy they are. They want people to compliment or praise them to keep their pyramid scheme of pleasure going. I did the very same thing with my travel efforts. I presented sex stories with foreign women in such an adventurous and rewarding light that many men wanted to duplicate my efforts, but if my sex travels were so great, why did I stop? Why did I renounce it all, including the lucrative writings that came from it?

The less game you know and have to use, the better. You’ll still have to embrace your God-given masculinity, and you must possess the basic confidence and strength to keep your wife and future family safe, but you don’t need to be outgoing, cocky, or smooth. You don’t even need to be attractive beyond maintaining basic hygiene and refraining from sloth and gluttony when it concerns your bodily physique. I can’t stress that the more secular methods you use to “improve” yourself—and we must take self-improvement to mean “being prideful and falling out of God’s grace”—the more you will get a secular woman. On the other hand, the more spiritual means you use to find a woman, the more spiritual she will be, and before you start complaining that there are no spiritual women out there, the reality is that God keeps his best women away from those with weak faith. Develop your faith and you will meet more women while you practice that faith, and one may become your wife.

You can argue that I’ve internalized so much game that I’m using it without knowing. I am still adept at reading body language and maintaining conversations, for example, but the seeds of those skills were within me from the beginning, just like how you may have naturally-given social or intellectual abilities that others don’t. Everything else I’ve thrown overboard. All my lines and moves which I shared in my books are atrophying at a rapid pace, soon to be forever forgotten. I don’t consciously use game anymore, because I know that if I do, I will just get me the same old result of the past, of a woman looking for a man to save her existence when really she needs Christ to save her soul. Let the blind pair bond with the blind, but I am no longer blind, and only a woman who has eyes to see will be a match for me.

Read Next: Game Is For Fallen Women


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I just had to block another former lover I gamed back in the days when I practiced seduction as a past time. She was throwing victim drama at me just like the other one. I was keeping contact just in case I wanted to get laid again. I felt bad for a bit, then immediately went on rooshv.com and read this article. Funny, he is completely right. You get bad results long term and it's not worth it.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
The vast majority of relationships in general will fail. "Game" at its core, at least to me, is about self confidence and self improvement. Those are valuable aims for men regardless of what type of relationship he's looking for.
Self-confidence is pride. All the confidence you need comes from Christ, not your own power.

As for self-improvement, who creates the standard for what "improvement" really is? The secular world.

If you use either to find a wife, you will simply find a secular wife.
 
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jakester318

Sparrow
This reminds me of 2 Timothy, a passage that is truly worth meditating on (in italics):

"But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

This dynamic is two-fold: men who fit the bill of being lovers of themselves seek to exploit weak women weighed down with sin. I don't know exactly what Paul has in mind when he says weak women weighed down with sins, but I can at least surmise some of the following:

1) women who have embraced feminism are weakened by the fact that they have made themselves an enemy of God, going again his natural order for women, that they would be led by a man and be a help to him.

2) women have also become sold out to their own pride and arrogance, to believe they are inherently more valuable (princesses) than they really are. they have become vain and full of pride, as if their very existence is proof that they are like God, to be worshiped.

3) they have embraced the same form of men, fornicating without concern for their future or of the long-term damage it causes to their souls.

I think if we have escaped the temptation and snare of being the type of man described above, we should thank God that we realized the folly of it and embraced the truth.
 
Self-confidence is pride. All the confidence you need comes from Christ, not your own power.

As for self-improvement, who creates the standard for what "improvement" really is? The secular world.

If you use either to find a wife, you will simply find a secular wife.
Just to continue this, as this is vital... fearing God above fearing man is the beginning of wisdom and the beginning of the path towards the acquisition of the Holy Spirit. This is where true “confidence” lies alongside faith in the Lord.

Working for the Lord and not for man is where excellence comes from. Work not to impress your boss, your wife, or anyone else. Work to impress the Lord. This is true “self-improvement.”

Seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you.

I’ve heard (even though I’m single right now) that when you aren’t looking is when you usually when God’s providence provides what/who is needed for your salvation each and every day. Trust in the Lord and ask for strength and endurance my brothers!

-Patrick Bateman
 

Jay

Pigeon
Because short term game is about incel's standards to get prostitutes to give out sex. Results depend upon-
The Chad ingredient (looks) establishes your initial game value.
The alpha ingredient (cocky & funny) improves your initial game value.
The beta ingredient (sympathising with her bullshit) further improves your game value.
The simp ingredient (money & social connections) improves your game value to it's maximum potential.

But the long term relationships include men expecting women to have (moral) standards too. Hence the failure of applying short term game here.
 

placer

Woodpecker
As for self-improvement, who creates the standard for what "improvement" really is? The secular world.
I think we can use a Biblical basis to define self improvement (which is probably better worded “submission to God’s will”).

For example, 1 Timothy 4:8 (“For bodily exercise has some value, but godliness has value in all things”) shows that there is value in body building and physical exercise, as long as one realizes that being in touch with the Holy Spirit and doing God’s will comes first. God’s will is many things, such as the 10 Commandants (Exodus 20:1-17), and to love God and others (Luke 10:27, spoken by Jesus: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”)
 
I think I have learned a lot from the manosphere about male and female nature, and the necessity for male leadership, however, I can see there are big problems with the paradigm established in the manosphere. Chief among them is the lack of emphasis on establishing trust in a relationship. I recall Roosh saying that when he was fornicating, he would tell women his name was spelled differently so they wouldn't find his writings on game. In a situation like that, where you keep a huge part of your life hidden, how can trust be established?

I also think it is worth noting that all the couples I know with the best relationships are ones where both people are very wholesome, but the man is not particularly alpha.
 
Withholding game from women during the initial courtship is reminiscent of a woman withholding sex from a man for 9 dates plus, in order to see if he is truly interested in a long-term relationship. For women this strategy is basically fool-proof; for men I think it has a couple of small disadvantages:

  1. A woman may be looking for a provider to later cheat on. In this scenario your lack of game will only embolden her because it signals to her that you're not socially savvy enough to pick up on the small cues that would usually give her away.
  2. It may repel women who are genuinely looking for a long-term and loyal relationship. Although somewhat superficial, some things like posture and social ability are things that are somewhat linked to your ability to lead others, have a successful career, and your willingness to stand up to others and defend yourself and family.

Disadvantage #1 is not that big of a deal because a woman like this will eventually give herself away. With regards to disadvantage #2, I think a way to solve it would be to intentionally avoid game elements that focus on giving her tingles, but maintain those elements which would be attractive and congruent in a Christian man.

Lastly, and this is something I'm still struggling with, is the question of approaching women. Does it make sense to keep our approaching abilities sharp in order to be able to take advantage of opportunities that present themselves? Should we give up the idea of approaching women altogether and focus on meeting women through our Church community, volunteering events, etc...?
 

Elipe

Robin
I generally agree that "gaming" women is doomed to failure for long-term relationships, but I also can't deny the fact that learning Game has taught me a lot about the meaning of masculinity and femininity, and in how to present a strong foot in any interpersonal relationship, even in the office or with a simple friend. It taught me that there are positive attributes of masculinity that, if presented, influence people into liking and respecting you more. I'm thinking of the difference between Pajama Boy and a manly guy who stands up straight, makes eye contact, smiles confidently, and gives firm handshakes.

I'm the computer nerd type of guy, so for most of my life I was just...... so horribly beta. I slouched, I didn't take care of myself as well as I should have, I didn't make eye contact as much as I should, my handshakes were limp, and I was horrible about taking initiatives.

Then one summer, I studied Game and decided to go balls to the wall with applying it, and I was shocked at the results I got with women. I scored my first real kiss (it almost went further), women were actually interested in chatting me up, I was just getting attention I was completely unaccustomed to getting. Seriously, this stuff works, and I know Roosh knows it. And it even helped me get into a nice, high-paying job whereas I was struggling trying to find employment before that.

I have since cleaned up my act and stopped using Game as a tool to have sex, but looking back, I still can't deny that Game carries with it many morsels of truth that, applied to your life, definitely raises the quality of your interactions with other people. I think at its heart, the real message of Game is that men should strive to be better versions of themselves, and that most of your failures in life are not because of external circumstances (despite the claims of leftists), but because YOU were YOUR OWN obstacle. And I personally believe that this is also a core concept in Christianity; after all, discipline and hard work are supposed to be fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Another name for Game back in the day was "applied charisma". Of course, this was taught with the "fake it until you make it" philosophy, but charisma is definitely a very real thing, and life definitely does get better when you improve your ability to project charisma. But I think the Christian view on that is that the display of charisma should be a honest display of who you are... not a mask. Don't pretend to be a better person. Be a better person.
 

Blade Runner

Woodpecker
Let's just be real: as society degrades and concomitantly elevates women (whether truly, or in status/perception) you see all of the factors working right now to make finding mates/marriage near impossible for most. In a certain sense that's why this forum always existed, as "players" before or now more nobly, as virtue seeker.

I would argue that few relationships are built at all these days, since most people are under delusion in the first place - even in the churches. When societies lose male leadership, from God all the way down to the family head, short of winning the lotto all you can do is wait it out. For most, that means nothing will happen --- the corrective measure is collateral damage so that women finally are forced to return to their senses, but that means economically a ton of men will get beat up as well. So be it, just do your best and be grateful for the things we have, there's not much you can do otherwise.
 

Mr Freedom

Sparrow
The vast majority of relationships in general will fail. "Game" at its core, at least to me, is about self confidence and self improvement. Those are valuable aims for men regardless of what type of relationship he's looking for.
to be honest if you look at it this way "Game" is just a Hack in the Secular Matrix System

You can use "Game" to have an advantage in the secular hypergamy female worship system that wants you to either be hooked on Porn for life or be a worthless beta orbiter. However aside from getting a chance to have sex you won't have achieved much. A relationship that resulted from using "game" will still adhere to the rules of the secular matrix system in which a man will have to jump through an immeasurable amount of hoops just to keep up. However at the point the gig is essentially up as the women is in control of the dynamics. Once that occurs it's pretty much over as you will eventually get cucked either overtly or covertly or if she is nice enough will end the relationship before such a thing happenings.

After all I once told a friend of mine whats the point of passing shit tests if they are coming at you at all directions every day of the week? He thought he was doing well in the relationship because he maintained decent frame. Turns out his girl was cheated on him on work days whilst she worked at a bar 2 nights a week which meant she had another 5 days off to cuck him whilst he was nowhere to be seen. Sad but true. If you can game a women to bed then prepare for another male to do exactly the same thing. I suspect that in these modern times covert cuckoldry happens in relationships a lot more than we think.,,

Of course there is a way around this and that is by getting serious very quickly and introducing the girl you used game on to religious matters and marriage. However I would wager that at least 95% of those girls who used game on will think your crazy and instantly remove themselves from your life because no true bad boy alpha would wast his time on religion or marriage.
 

robinman

Newbie
Roosh, what about relationships that are built on a man being extremely good looking? A good looking man doesn't need "game" in the same sense a normal man does. (assuming no autism).

studies do indeed show that physical attraction is the ultimate predictor of success in relationships







https://www.reddit.com/r/confessions/comments/6cn5qb
It seems to me as if "game" is just being a "clown" to woman. In fact, those are YOUR WORDS, not mine.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Roosh, what about relationships that are built on a man being extremely good looking? A good looking man doesn't need "game" in the same sense a normal man does. (assuming no autism).

studies do indeed show that physical attraction is the ultimate predictor of success in relationships







https://www.reddit.com/r/confessions/comments/6cn5qb
It seems to me as if "game" is just being a "clown" to woman. In fact, those are YOUR WORDS, not mine.
Over 50% of "science studies" are not reproducible. So I don't live in a paradigm where a study is going to impact what I've learned through the Church, which is that following your passions will lead to failure. Most men who have dated attractive women can tell you that you get used to a woman's beauty very quickly.

Your argument is common in the incel community, whose members have lost touch with reality and use Tinder catfishing schemes to determine their entire belief system on women.
 

Barron

Ostrich
Gold Member
to be honest if you look at it this way "Game" is just a Hack in the Secular Matrix System

You can use "Game" to have an advantage in the secular hypergamy female worship system that wants you to either be hooked on Porn for life or be a worthless beta orbiter. However aside from getting a chance to have sex you won't have achieved much. A relationship that resulted from using "game" will still adhere to the rules of the secular matrix system in which a man will have to jump through an immeasurable amount of hoops just to keep up.
This is pretty dead on. Ain't nothing wrong with improving yourself as long as its aim is inwards rather than outwards.
 

mubs100

Pigeon
Roosh, what about relationships that are built on a man being extremely good looking? A good looking man doesn't need "game" in the same sense a normal man does. (assuming no autism).

studies do indeed show that physical attraction is the ultimate predictor of success in relationships







https://www.reddit.com/r/confessions/comments/6cn5qb
It seems to me as if "game" is just being a "clown" to woman. In fact, those are YOUR WORDS, not mine.
That study you posted....

" This study examined the relations between facial attractiveness, aggression, and popularity in adolescence to determine whether facial attractiveness would buffer against the negative effects of aggression on popularity. We collected ratings of facial attractiveness from standardized photographs, and teachers provided information on adolescents' social aggression, physical aggression, and popularity for 143 seventh graders (70 girls). Regression analyses indicated that facial attractiveness moderated the relations between both types of aggression and popularity. Aggression was associated with a reduction in popularity for adolescents low on facial attractiveness. However, popularity did not decrease as a function of aggression for adolescents high on facial attractiveness. Aggressors with high facial attractiveness may experience fewer negative consequences to their social standing, thus contributing to higher overall rates of aggression in school settings. "

Is basically saying people who have higher facial attractiveness (didnt read how they determine that) have higher popularity than others when aggression is equal.

The problem is there are other variables (other social skills) that are not accounted for in the study. Clearly people with higher facial attractiveness will have have other positive qualities (if you disagree you dont understand dna, nature or anything really). Science is pretty stupid and autistic because often it doesnt account for many different associations and thus produces misleading studies.

Also the guy in the photo looks like a low-IQ retard, low-class girls often go for people like that who are 'good-looking' and criminal, due to their not having access to higher quality men and also the fact that retard criminality is glorified in Western Culture.

I'm just surprised you put that photo up as an example of 'physical attractinvess' - I dont see it, I think decent looking intelligent guys would wipe the floor with him for middle-class girls, he seems like a simpleton who would be easy to 'dominate' IRL for any decent looking guy with a brain.

I think those women in the comments are just trolling guys like you...
 

eradicator

Peacock
Gold Member
Ok I don’t understand. Cooking game exists, if you are great at coming up with good meals some girls will totally be into that.

fitness game also exists. I’m not saying join a gym to get girls but if you like staying fit you will meet and date other fitness enthusiasts a lot easier

Beach game definitely exists. If you like going to nice beaches and gaming girls you meet there, then carry on.

I don’t mean to put words into Roosh’s mouth so I may regret this, but it sounds like he is talking about using night game to get laid at a bar. Whether it’s being an effective clown or dancer or whatnot.

But even I don’t think there is anything wrong with being good at dancing or comedy.

If Roosh is saying that being a cocky / arrogant cad to get bar sluts into bed is not going to serve you in a ltr, yeah absolutely he has a point. But putting real work into improving yourself can never be a negative (at least I’d argue)
 
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