Faith Moving to Russia for spiritual reasons

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
In the previous iteration of the forum, there were endless discussions of where to move for a better material situation. So far, I don't know anyone who has moved countries to improve their spiritual situation (though I do know people who have moved within their country to live near monasteries). If persecution intensifies in the future then that calculus could change.

Here's a short Russian documentary featuring Fr. Joseph Gleason, who moved to Russia with his large family. Is he an outlier or the beginning of a trend?



I can see the draw to move for those who have children. Single people, however, may have less justification for the time being.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I have been to Russia four times. Two times I stayed in the cities and two times I shuffled off into what they call the provinces. When I've asked people about their thoughts on certain topics it seems clear to me that most Russians fit into the bracket of not seeing much difference between a German and a Russian, in terms of immigration. Few people would care much if their daughter married a German. Whereas they are liable to have some barriers against other people, such as Georgians and Armenians. I think this is the same as the default position in Europe, which has only shifted due to excessive propaganda. But I think it goes a bit deeper than that. People want others to look like them. There is also a deeper thread that you will find in the more Orthodox and nationalist circles, which lend themselves a bit more to pan-Slavicism. And why not? Since they were all the same people a little over 2,000 years ago. Though the groups that move have obviously blended with the Celtic, Dacian and Thracian people. At least that I have heard, sensed, you don't find the same giant wall that may be put up against Russian in The West. Most relatively smart Russians are aware on the insanity that is going on in America and the West in general and they are unlikely to put you aside because of it. There is really very little apatite for things like having gay culture pop it's head up. Even people who I would say would obviously have ended up as Democrats in the US, are anti-sodomy. That's one of the best things going for the country, as it does have some quite serious social problems, which I think stem from the USSR.

You can, of course, go and meld yourself in the milieu of a modern urban centre. This has it's benefits, but it's like the 80s. You can also keep yourself in the corner of an Orthodox sphere. I met some English-speaking Orthodox people in Moscow and they live well, but I'd say the level of knowledge of what is happening is much lower among them, as it is on this forum and the broader US dissident right. I think most Orthodox Russians are quite naive as to the nature of the modern world.

Where I felt most at home in Russia were the most provincial cities. These were Lipetsk, which is considered very provincial, not for from Moscow; and Ulan-Ude, which is a few hundred miles from Mongolia. I walked from the centre of the city right to the edge a huge portion of the city is actually a huge extended village, with homes like this:

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In such places you will find people of simple concerns. I feel when you talk to such people there is much less of a web of modern shrouding you need to plough through. Everywhere I have been I've always felt more at home with the villagers.

I also went to an attraction that had this Old Believer church.

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And found this sign.

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Which says - the lief of a person begins with conception! Stop abortion.

This was set in a huge cedar forest. I guess it looks similar to places like CO or IA. When I was there I got a strong urge to go into the nature for a few days.

I have found Russia an interesting place to move to for some time, due to its well earned mysterious quality and it being the European country that is most set against gloablism (globalism is a well-used word in Russia). And I think it offers a lot more spiritual sanctuary than anywhere in Western Europe, but not necessarily places in Eastern Europe. There is a lot of rot in the cities. Most people are rootless at the end of a different pedigree than Westerners. You have the same situation as in the US, where to be spiritual, you would be living apart from most people. The difference is the Russian establishment doesn't attack the spiritual quarters.

The notion of spiritual migration is interesting, because it is very clear that almost all people immigrate for economic reasons. Even people who move to say Ukraine from the US only do so as they are shielded against the Ukrainian economy. For the most part, anyway. Many people in Russia know of what is happening in the West and would like to move there anyway. Regarding the debauchery, they may say "Oh, I know there are stupid things happening, but I don't need to partake in that." Like everyone else who has moved to the US, they will reap what they sow. The righting has and is clear what moving to the US means, and people have been blinded by money and lifestyle anyway.

To me it seems that spiritual battle will be fought in America, and there is plenty of room and lax enough laws that you can move outback and have a life where the machinations of globo-homo do not reach. That's not something you can really do in Western Europe, because there aren't really any holdouts and it's much more expensive to do something like this.

Then the problem is, who do you live such a life with? My finding is that almost no women are intersted in a simple spirtual-oriented life.
 

majag

Chicken
Orthodox Catechumen
In America the only way you can raise kids away from the spirit of the antichrist is through homeschooling, and maybe living near an Ephraimite monastery. There have been many saints who have said that Russia would be the only country not under control of the antichrist, that America would be destroyed and people would flee to Russia, the salvation of the world will be from Russia etc. Most sane people can see the writing on the wall that America is slowly marching in the direction of rest of Western Europe in its gayness and globalism, but Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphou said that God would make a fool of his prophets out of his love for people. While immorality is growing, so is Orthodoxy which means repentance is growing as well. So if America or parts of it end up repenting through miraculous means then at least parts may be spared, who knows.

Whats the difference between moving near an Ephraimite monastery and moving to an entire Orthodox country with monasteries everywhere? The only barriers would be language and family. Language is not hard, it just takes time, and leaving your parents, say to marry someone in Russia, you get more family through that anyways. And your own parents can visit, or you can visit your parents still. Its not like you will never see them again. If you are already married in America, then it may be more attractive to leave your families and raise your kids in Russia so they don't succumb to the zeitgeist. And Christ did give precedence to flee to the mountains. Its not like we have to always stay in the same spot for the rest of our lives.

A point that I heard that was a bit morbidly funny, and while maybe not quite as comparable, was that for the most part, at least the Christians who didn't flee the soviet union had the luxury of being martyred. We don't, we just become degenerates and condemn our children to degeneracy, which is arguably worse. It would be challenging to raise kids in America and not have them become degenerates.

Sorry if this is all scattered, I am very scatterbrained.
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Other Christian
Gold Member
I can see the draw to move for those who have children. Single people, however, may have less justification for the time being.

The exact opposite. Single people can pack their lives in a suitcase and flit from one country to the next without consequence because no one is depending on them and they have nothing to lose. This forum glorified the single expat life in a previous iteration because a) it was easy and b) it was of no consequence. You could live on a meager English teachers paycheck and still get by. Parents lose the income they depend on to feed their children, their support system, their extended family, the homes their children are familiar with.

I could do it as a single man (and did, several times) but wouldn't dare attempt it with a family relying on me for stability. The priest given as an example had guaranteed income and guaranteed integration into a community. Those are rarities for the majority of parents.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
The exact opposite. Single people can pack their lives in a suitcase and flit from one country to the next without consequence because no one is depending on them and they have nothing to lose.
Except their souls if they make the wrong choice, by running away from their cross. I'm not discussing material justification but spiritual justification. This tread is about "spiritual reasons" as denoted in the title.
 

Danthomas78

Chicken
Catholic
I remeber watching a video on the RT channel on youtube about ethnic german refugees moving to a self built and self sustaining settlement in russia. They where interviewing school children and a man that built his own airpane. I cannot find this video anywhere anymore after Feb 24. Does anyone have it?
 

Kiwi

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
Except their souls if they make the wrong choice, by running away from their cross. I'm not discussing material justification but spiritual justification. This tread is about "spiritual reasons" as denoted in the title.

As someone that's both travelled the world and also wanted that place in the mountains in the past, do you still feel called to stay put at this current time?
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Other Christian
Gold Member
Except their souls if they make the wrong choice, by running away from their cross. I'm not discussing material justification but spiritual justification. This tread is about "spiritual reasons" as denoted in the title.

The two are closely related. Fleeing for spiritual reasons cannot happen without the financial means to do so. The New Testament is filled with examples of Paul giving thanks to those who made his travels and missionary work possible through their gifts and financial support (e.g. Philippians)

Another thing to consider -- did the religious families fleeing godless Communism fare better after fleeing to the West for spiritual reasons? Within a generation their children were absorbed into another godless culture and back at square one, or worse.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Yes.

A red line for me is if Orthodox Churches are closed and I can't participate in the sacraments. I will use discernment for other crises.

Yep, this is pretty much the common sense approach we should keep for folks with a family already.

I expect no nation on earth to solve the problems of the Antichrist and social engineering.

Russia currently seems like a good place. But how quickly these things change with in lifetimes. Go from 1900 Russia to 1935 Russia. Look at faithful Russian priests being replaced by communists appointed ones ECT...

Then also look at

Go from 1995 USA to 2020 USA.

These things are often cyclic and we are left riding waves.

Best to find you little community, insulate yourself as best possible, and stay put. Become anti-fragile through some land, agricultural basic knowledge, know how to do hard work, and build relationships and a community with like minded people.

Moving a family from one city to a other is already incredibly hard. Hard on the family, hard on the finances, and hard all the way around for the marriage.

Now magnify that by language barriers, laws, customs, lack of community, ECT.

Maybe this works for some, but for overwhelming vast majority this is not a recipe for success.

To me Russia, Romania, Serbia, XYZ are all pursuits of something that is never going to be the perfect ideal.

It's also very very rare a woman will give up all family relationships to move away like that. Maybe hundreds of years ago this was common... But now it's often not the case.
 

majag

Chicken
Orthodox Catechumen

majag

Chicken
Orthodox Catechumen
So Russia is going to stop the AntiChrist and Revaluations?
I encourage you to read the links. I was talking about how the coming antichrist won't reign in Russia, at least the antichrist that will come after the coming war, as St. Paisios said that these events will likely just be a strong intercession (ie. this iteration of the antichrist may not be the final true antichrist, but that's always a maybe). Why not go somewhere the antichrist won't reign? Did Christ not set the precedent to flee to the mountains?
 
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fortyfive

Kingfisher
Other Christian
Russia presents itself as a based country and probably is, but some troubling developments going underway are present there too.


Presumably, all countries in the world will be affected to some extent by the incoming beast system.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
[
I encourage you to read the links. I was talking about how the coming antichrist won't reign in Russia, at least the antichrist that will come after the coming war, as St. Paisios said that these events will likely just be a strong intercession (ie. this iteration of the antichrist may not be the final true antichrist, but that's always a maybe). Why not go somewhere the antichrist won't reign? Did Christ not set the precedent to flee to the mountains?
I am very happy for this priest, and I'm not questioning him or passing any comment on him, but for many many many many pious families, the solution to "just move to Russia" is neither practical nor even possible.

I don't know where Christ told us to flee to the mountains specifically and to withdrawal from any nation. But maybe I'm missing something and am happy to be corrected.

I don't pretend to have the wisdom of the saints. It's beyond my worldly knowlegde.

I'm just skeptical that moving from point a to point b is going to change the inevitable.

If this were the case that we had clear answers, i would expect to have hear this more from my priest, who was under ROCOR for a while and often speaks about the Russian Church and the world now.

I think Russia may be better than say Germany, but I don't think it's going to matter when the end times are here.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
The prophecies suggest the Russians will resist and fight the Antichrist... to "go down fighting" if you will. But they will still be impacted greatly.
Thank you, I guess I have to look into some more of these prophecies and inquire how they might fit into my life now... I looked at the scripture also referenced... There's a lot more there for me to try and understand, and a humble moment for me to remember I know less about Christ, and God than I think I do.... let alone pretend to understand fully.... but I digress......


Regarding resistance to the inevitable, I'd simply offer the below for thought from my background.... and there are others who are also aware of our current system (@Easy_C ) who can confirm or deny my general gist.

I'm sure that this will occur in the rural areas, devoid of major government infrastructure.... but the cities of Russia are no different than China/USA/London/Germany ect...Rural Germany/Ukraine/Russia/East Texas will all continue the same compared to Detroit/Moscow/DC/London ect.......

This is the same with living outside Houston in the country as I do now vs in the downtown area. Good luck trying to enforce CRT/wokeism with a town full of rednecks and working class farmers. That dog dont hunt. We have co-ops, FFA events, people trade animals ect...Last week I bought a half cow and split it with my neighbor. My wife has 5 people she sees through out the week for Eggs/Milk/ect ect ect. My neighbor (`60), who also has a couple acres, always needs help, so my boys and I go over to do work over there. We fill my truck up with wood, bricks/construction supplies ect. Sometimes we go shooting, I help him with big expensive gun purchases, he allows me to come shoot his big expensive guns.... haha.....

How many people here wondering about russia, have even considered the above? You dont have to be in Texas for that. You can do that in almost literally every state.

I grew up in a small town in East Texas, where the carpet bagger yankees got slaughtered by guerilla warfare in occupation post Civil War. No kidding, I've got a 100 year old+++ original confedrate battle flag in my house. Why? To remind me that there is such a thing as personal independence.

No amount of surveillance and state occupation can stop a determined resistance populous who also is attuned to the tech employed by the occupying force (NOT ADVOCATING... just pointing out) Its been over a hundred years and that area is relatively unchanged. Blacks and Whites dont eat dinner together, blacks with money do very well for themselves, there's little mexicans in the area, and only filth (strip clubs) are ran by Jews.... whom my father calls "shrewd unscrupulous soulless men who hate their neighbors" with out ever knowing about the JQ.



Fast forward many years....

The surveillances state and control mechanisms are in place and unfortunately our patterns of life are mapped to the minute by the mechanic behind the machines if they so choose to wield that control.

There was an epiphany this week in my MBA vourse. The director of the program and a a major investor who regularly testifies to congress about China and their trade practices is my professor. He set up the whole Online MBA program I'm attending (top 50 business school in the country and well known in the south for being an elitist school that white trash like me shouldnt be allowed in....) No one wanted to touch the "social credit score" likely because everyone is in finance/health care and that's part of the way of their job security.

Since I'm in Oil and Gas and actually move products and have a clue about how economies really work, I laid it all out there. After 10 minutes of having the microphone and telling all the truth we all know here, the professor said "wow, excellent summary, and you're correct... if congress knew what you knew I'd be out of a job" huzaahhhh pat on the back ect.... I get to be smarter than my rich kid peers or minority check in the boxes who work at goldman sachs/major defense contractors ect... ect... ect... but the point is that greedy idiots only promote their bottom line so far.... and the peter principal reigns supreme in business and law at a certain point.

America is a country driven by greed and successful in our pursuit beyond any nation here to fore. Rome/the Spanish/Brittish Empire are weeklings compared to our decisive control over media/finance / culture/ war/ weaponry ect ect ect/ This is reality.

America is also a great nation with potential for overwhelming good, in spite of its recent bouts of degeneracy. Many here on the forum are first to point out our failures (and rightfully so) with NO skin in the game. Few to none have served in the military, have owned a business, none have paid significant taxes ect... yet want to lecture others about the greener pastures of another life in another country.

Think about that for 1 second and recognize your own role in making the world around you a better place. Do you have a shangrilah somewhere else meanwhile your own house is a festering garbage dumpster?

Few here actually take the ideals they preach into practice, at least that's my assessment, and forgive me where I am wrong.... My question to man is simply "what are you doing in your daily life that would build and reflect the place on earth you idealize?" Sadly very very few are capable of giving a substantive answer. That is my concern.

We live in a world where a satellite can identify with facial recognition and track you for hours on end.... and that's just what you're "allowed to know about" never mind the DARPA stuff, or firsthand knowledge of members here about said control/surveillance mechanisms, that is going on which cant be admitted to on a public forum.

Currently Russia would appear to be the best "state" to live in and one of the last places to resist the inevitable China model.... but I don't have fidelity in the resistance of Russia or ANY country on earth. They share a border with China, and it's foolish to think that mentality wont bleed over.....not that youre making that argument.... just saying....

My concern would be what happens when Putin leaves. He's a great leader, he seems to genuinely cares about his country and using The Church to cement culture. I've got nothing but admiration for that element of his leadership.

A government wants to be in control of its people.

2 billion or 200 million doesnt matter. Governments exist to control their populous, only strong populations resist tyranny. Russia has no proof historically or literally that convinces me it will be some bastion against the world to come, Though it may be much much better than other countries in the final hour.

I could quote Cormack McCarthy and say "you cant stop what's coming" .... but we all know that.

My apologies if I've soured the discourse here... just my dos centavos.
 

iop890

Peacock
Orthodox
Gold Member
Since we're discussing which which countries will best resist the antichrist, I'll post a couple quotes from my patron Saint Gabriel of Georgia. Unfortunately the translation is a bit awkward.

The Antichrist will not be enthroned in Georgia and the persecutions here will be considerably less severe. Woe to those who will try to interpret the Holy Testament in their own way. Later, the Antichrist followers will also attend church services; make sign of the cross and preach Holy Testament. True believers will be recognized by the good deeds.

Georgia will be enlightened in the End Days; this will be revealed not materially but spiritually. Believers from many countries will gather in Georgia. The wicked deeds started by communists are only a prologue. The worst is ahead. The world has never witnessed such a sorrow from the time immemorial. Georgia will be protected by the Holy Virgin as Iveria is the country chosen by the Holy Mother of God as Her lot. The fight between the prophets Elijah and Enoch against Antichrist will be shown on TV. The leaving of the Holy Mountain by the icon of the Holy Virgin of Iveron will be followed by the bell ringing. The churches will bow down to commemorate the farewell. This also will be shown on TV, so that the whole world could see that and those, who want to save their souls could come to Georgia.
 

Pete345

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Then the problem is, who do you live such a life with? My finding is that almost no women are intersted in a simple spirtual-oriented life.
This is key. In theory, equally yoked, a couple can together face the worst headwinds that the GloboHomo western rot can throw at them. Most women have no interest in being socially marginalized, however. Best to find a community or culture that is traditional and Christ-centered, otherwise it won't go well for her or your marriage.
 
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