Music is a better business than writing...

[RouteBackwards]

I'm curious if anyone has written any music and uploaded to itunes?

After spending a year and half of hell writing my first book, I started to realize the MUSIC is SOOO much more profitable than writing. Although I am doing pretty good ($200 first 45 days), writing a book is a TON of work.

Writing a book takes forever, and then it is hard to even get your good friends to review it. Asking someone to read a book takes effort on their part, asking someone to listen to your song does not.

Think about all the classic albums that have probably been made within one or two weeks? Nirvana's Nevermind and Guns and Roses Appetite for Destruction come to mind. You just go inside a studio, and BAM, a week or two later you come out with some music. And if you play live it's even better because you make revenue's from the show's, AND at the same time it helps your albums sales. "Live" records from concerts are the easiest money makers in music history.

Of course I am oversimplifying everything, but has anyone on here recorded music for Itunes? I am working on a new work out book, but after that I want to consider getting back into music.

Thanks,
captain P

I've made quite a bit of music and I've worked closely with a lot of indie bands. They make enough off their music to keep making more music/upkeep of travel vehicle/new instruments and instrument maintenance, but that's all.

The music industry is incredibly cut throat and it's incredibly hard for even a great indie band with a good fanbase to make money off of what they are doing. All of these gentlemen have to work as well in order to make ends meet, they literally do this music shit for the enjoyment.

 

[Kitsune]

Some of these DJ's like Tiesto must be making some serious bucks, but once again, one in a million...

...

Tiesto is well into his 40's, spent years doing the shit jobs before he got big, and even then, he's one in a million, like you say.

...

Music is better than writing in one respect. Someone like Tiesto can be making big bucks even if he doesn't sell one legal album or track. Ever been to any of the big clubs or techno parties in Europe? They're popular, expensive, and obviously the organisers can pay their headline acts a decent fee. Selling music isn't the only game in town. The record companies don't like that, because they'd rather have the old days back when they were making money passively just by burning and distributing CD's, but who is interested in sympathising with a bunch of histrionic rich LA dudes anyway? The music industry model nowadays seems to be to generate interest online on free sights like youtube, HOPE that at least some people will buy your tracks on itunes, but aim to make most of your money on actual live gigs.

But a writer must sell what he writes. Sure movie rights are another avenue, but that is really just an extension of what he has written. For the rare charismatic writer the speaking circuit might be an option, ut would need a personality not usually associated with good writers.

That'd all be fine and dandy if the current model worked... it doesn't.
Free sites like youtube, (and napster before it) mean that music is a commodity that people aren't paying for. So the actual medium of music is worth intrinisically less than it used to be. Its value as a product has gone from a $15 a CD model to the $0.06 per 1000 views model. Only youtube and itunes win from that.

This'd all be ok if live music covered the costs - it's how a lot of indie musicians think they are going to make it. "Yeah, we'll sell merchandise at our gigs!" Except it doesn't really work like that either. Most people who have huge gate takings are already established stars - Bruce Springsteen can sell out an arena, but then he has sold a hundred million records. A new band won't get paid anything to show - I've got a friend who is a drummer who not only has an established rock band, but also does professional work for orchestras. He's been doing this since I've known him. He makes travel expenses, plus the odd $50 or so here and there. This is a guy with a music degree from a top university who plays multiple different styles of music from rock to jazz to classical. And he is one of the most 'successful' musicians I know because he can vaguely get by just by tutoring and his music.

People don't tend to go to gigs to socialise much, they go to clubs. Most clubs won't hire a DJ for good money because if it's Tiesto he costs too much and if it's a local pro you can get your mate/cousin/brother/your ipod to mix the tracks for less than $100 per night.

Most upcomers won't get paid for a night because there are too many bands that'll do it for 'exposure.' i.e no pay. Most people won't spend more than a few dollars for a ticket unless it's their favourite band, because due to the internet their niche is being filled by their playlist at home. If what you really love is Scandinavian Black Metal, whereas once you would have gone to the rocker club down the road for a Kiss cover act because it was the closest thing, now, you get whatever you want in as small a niche as suits you for nothing. The social side is something divorced from it entirely.

And even if you do success despite all this, live music is shit hours for little pay. (Gig is 9.30 - 11.30. You're there for sound checks from 2pm because you have to do it before the venue opens. You don't leave until hours later because you have to pack all your gear away and stick it in the van which you have to sleep in.)

etc.

The reason I rant about it so much is two-fold: First, it bugs the shit out of me that the music industry failed so fucking badly with adopting new technology. Secondly, I get genuinely upset when I think about smart friends who basically give everything up for 'the dream.'

I suppose lastly, it bugs me because the quality of sound you get on an album has gotten exponentially worse for the past thirty years despite the technology improving manifold.

 

[tiggaling]

Well, even the music that manages to float to the top of the pile is mostly pretty shit these days.

There are plenty of people who put the work in and think that by being the latest guitar hero they can make money through their music. It is not really about talent insomuch as does what you are doing really prick the ears of critics and music enthusiasts - if you can get through to them.

 

[Blaster]

My experience with real-life musicians matches up with Kitsune's pretty closely. Most make money through teaching or a non-music job and do gigs on the side for fun and a little extra cash. Pianists can make money accompanying church and community choirs as well as teaching. Singers and conductors may also find work in the church/community sphere. The church choir stuff can pay well in some cases (especially in the right neighborhoods/parishes) and is far more steady than a typical musician job, however they still tend to be only a few of the most inconvenient hours per week (eg Sunday mornings).

Personally I've made a grand total of $500.00 lifetime from performing and $0.00 from composing.

 

[thegmanifesto]

Think about all the classic albums that have probably been made within one or two weeks? Nirvana's Nevermind and Guns and Roses Appetite for Destruction come to mind. You just go inside a studio, and BAM, a week or two later you come out with some music. And if you play live it's even better because you make revenue's from the show's, AND at the same time it helps your albums sales. "Live" records from concerts are the easiest money makers in music history.

Captain,

Don't take this the wrong way, but it seems like you are coming unglued.

(Trust me, it happens to me too every now and then).

First, "Suits Don't work in Manhattan".

Now, "I am going to write the next Nirvana's Nevermind in two weeks".

Why not be the first man to walk on Mars too while you are at it?

Or win the Superbowl, Kentucky Derby and NBA Championship in one fell swoop? (so to speak)

I suppose lastly, it bugs me because the quality of sound you get on an album has gotten exponentially worse for the past thirty years despite the technology improving manifold.

Is that really true?

Why?

 

[cardguy]

Good article here from a (crappy indie) band on how poor the royalties from Spotify and Pandora are...

http://pitchfork.com/features/articles/8993-the-cloud/

 

[kosko]

The only saviour for music is that now it is quite cheap to get into it. But even then you won't make any money and have to devote a ton of time to making the actually product and then shilling it on-line. In the viral age you can go from your basement to Arena shows in no time at all (A$AP Rocky) but this is a angel/devil situation because the quicker you blow up the quicker people will get sick of you. There is only money in touring in music, if you have a good following you can live nicely simply by going on tour twice a year.

Unless your lucky though generally to be skilled at music your looking at 6-10 years or its hours equivalent in practice. You will be no good and just will be riding hype/trends if you try to by-pass that time. Nobody I know whom has had a legit career in music was able to by-pass that, sure some newbies can creep out out of knowhere but the Vets whom put in the time always stay on course making that money. I have been doing music more or less now for 10 years with some gaps in their for creative reasons and I have not made a real dime.

 

[Pete]

I work in the music business. You've got to get your facts straight.

I have an independent label. It's my passion, though I don't do it full time, I've been involved with music since I was 12.

First. Sure, maybe making a shitty album can take you one week. Say you do make it in one week. You still got to pay engineers to edit, mix, and master the album. It can easily run you $10,000.

I forgot. Renting a studio (a decent one) can cost anywhere from $5,000 to 20,000. If you want to make your own studio, maybe you could with about $15,000. That is, without a large console, that alone costs $100,000+. Hence the high price of renting a professional studio.

That's just not including collaborations. I made a "Featuring" with a Grammy nominated artist and it cost me almost $8,000. That's because we had a mutual friend... If not, the price would've been $12,000... And that was before he was nominated. After his nomination, he was charging $20,000+.

Say you do that. If you're an independent (which you'll be unless you sign with sony, universal, emi, etc.) you're gonna need investors.

Just to give an example. I went to a latin american country a few weeks ago to meet with a few people and find out how much it would it would cost me to have a media tour and get my music on the radio etc. Turns out it would be about $10,000 for one song. Plus travel expenses for artists, manager, promoters, and investors.

If you're going to promote, you're gonna need to have a music video which can cost anywhere from $2,000 to $15,000. That's just what the director might charge you. You'd have to find the cars, models, houses, or anything like that.

And if you think you're going to make a profit by selling music on iTunes. You're just dreaming.

You make a profit from touring.

You think doing all that is easy? Think again, please.

 

[Pete]

Good article here from a (crappy indie) band on how poor the royalties from Spotify and Pandora are...

http://pitchfork.com/features/articles/8993-the-cloud/

Haven't read the article. But those royalties are amazingly low. I was checking some sales for a few of my songs and one day for about 60 streams I got less than 25 cents..

 

[TheCaptainPower]

@ Pete Good info! So is itunes pretty much paying youtube revenues?

What would a 99 cent download commission be for the artist?

 

[Pete]

@ Pete Good info! So is itunes pretty much paying youtube revenues?

What would a 99 cent download commission be for the artist?

Downloads on iTunes are $0.99 (unless it's in the top 100 which it is $1.29). For those $0.99, you get about 0.70.

You could get revenue from Youtube from various ways. Monetizing your channel, and claiming the rights to your music, videos, etc. and getting a cut from the ads. Becoming a youtube partner so you could get your revenue directly from them it's pretty hard. So most people do it through an intermediary like Rumblefish.

Anyways, it's not big money. I think you get about $2,000 if your video gets 1,000,000 views... Which is pretty hard.

Truth is most will never make profit from the sales of music itself. As maybe you sell 1,000,000 singles on itunes or albums, but how much did you had to spend on marketing to achieve that?

 

[thebassist]

I work in the music business. You've got to get your facts straight.

I have an independent label. It's my passion, though I don't do it full time, I've been involved with music since I was 12.

First. Sure, maybe making a shitty album can take you one week. Say you do make it in one week. You still got to pay engineers to edit, mix, and master the album. It can easily run you $10,000.

I forgot. Renting a studio (a decent one) can cost anywhere from $5,000 to 20,000. If you want to make your own studio, maybe you could with about $15,000. That is, without a large console, that alone costs $100,000+. Hence the high price of renting a professional studio.

That's just not including collaborations. I made a "Featuring" with a Grammy nominated artist and it cost me almost $8,000. That's because we had a mutual friend... If not, the price would've been $12,000... And that was before he was nominated. After his nomination, he was charging $20,000+.

Say you do that. If you're an independent (which you'll be unless you sign with sony, universal, emi, etc.) you're gonna need investors.

Just to give an example. I went to a latin american country a few weeks ago to meet with a few people and find out how much it would it would cost me to have a media tour and get my music on the radio etc. Turns out it would be about $10,000 for one song. Plus travel expenses for artists, manager, promoters, and investors.

If you're going to promote, you're gonna need to have a music video which can cost anywhere from $2,000 to $15,000. That's just what the director might charge you. You'd have to find the cars, models, houses, or anything like that.

And if you think you're going to make a profit by selling music on iTunes. You're just dreaming.

You make a profit from touring.

You think doing all that is easy? Think again, please.

Truth.