Must-not read books

[Hannibal]

The Koran. It's a complete waste of time.

I tried to read it before my first deployment to Afghanistan to get a try to gain insight into their culture. I tried a couple of different translations. All were awful and I gave up with disgust. I have zero clue how Islam can be so spiritually inspiring to anyone. I can see where and why people would be inspired and devoted to many of the other world's religions, but Islam is drawing a complete zero on that front. The Koran read like bragging and posturing and was short of a sense of spirituality or intellectuality.

I still remember being in middle school and listening to the men who went to church and farmed and what they had to say about Islam.

One guy said, "Well, it's all 'death to the infidels' and that's us."

The other guy said, "Then they praise God for it."

Third guy, "Yep."

That was fifteen years ago.

It's amazing how such a simple explanation could get mired down with so much political correctness and bullshit.

It's not like Islam hides it's aggression or anything, the pseudo intellectuals among us crave a more "nuanced" explanation for everything because they don't believe anything could be that simple.

 

[Phoenix]

Worth noting that the Koran isn't considered "all Islam". All the details are filled in by the model life of the prophet Muhammed. And if anything that makes it much worse.

 

[XPQ22]

I did read Dune as a 14 year old. I liked it then and I like it now. Some people just can't get into science fiction, which is fine.

I like some science fiction. Part of the issue I have with Dune and many other "science fiction" novels is there doesn't seem to actually be much science to it. What is the Spice, exactly? Why does it do what it does? AFAIK we never find out the "whys" of stuff like that; they're just vehicles for the story. Might as well be magic. For my taste it feels too much like regular "wizards and dragons" fantasy, but set in space.

I like some stuff by authors like Stephen Baxter, Clarke, Larry Niven (Lucifer's Hammer was one of the better books about the aftermath of a comet impact, though a lot of people didn't like its 'race war' overtones...Niven also seems to be one of the few sci-fi writers who can write about relationships as if he might have actually had sex with a woman in his life; George Lucas certainly hasn't.) William Gibson is pretty good, too.

 

[Germanicus]

Lol, I loved Atlas Shrugged. Still my favourite book ever. I can't remember what I searched for to discover it, something like "what is a book thats actually against leftist bullshit". Man it really was that. I used to come home every day after work, pour a drink, and enjoy. It certainly doesn't belong in this thread. I recognize that Ayn Rand was messed up in the head, but so was Mozart. If you ignore her fucked up or empty attitudes towards sex and family, everything else is great. Give credit where it's due.

Oh god no. Atlas Shrugged is an utter pile of dog crap. Severely poorly written, poor characterization, poor plotting, severely ham-handed spouting of dogma, and utter shit pacing-- did it really take 1100 pages to say what it had to say?

There are plenty of much more valuable anti-left books, although, there aren't many quality anti-left works of fiction. Atlas is to the literary anti-left kind of like the Republican Party is to the political anti-left-- talks a good game; not quite walking that talk.

I will credit Rand for some good things in it, though. Specifically she nailed the portrait of the socialite parasite class and the whole "You'll think of something Mr Rearden" theme as they expect other people to pay and sweat for their brainless schemes. Also the steady and stealthy implementation of leftist policy while they deny doing any such thing and the third party observers saying "oh, they can't possibly mean it" while those leftists do mean it and once they achieve it start shifting things even farther leftward. That has been the exact homosexualist and immigration agendas over the past 50 years and Rand called it exactly right. And Ragnar Danneskjold's anti-Marxist piracy is a badass concept that would make a great series of anti-leftist adventure stories.

One day I may sit down and write out a long essay on just why Atlas was poop, Objectivism is retarded, and Rand was an insane cunt. Not today, though. If you found solace in her stuff that's cool with me. I don't want to take that away from you. I just like a good heated but respectful debate. I'm definitely down for guys who see things differently from me coming back at me with facts and having some fun with the debate.

 

[XPQ22]

^ I'm pretty sure that Rand was cognizant of the fact that to leftists, as a white male everything is always your fault, even when it's not. I dated a woman who used to say when I talked to her about my past and daily life "Wow, you always seem to be getting in trouble." No, my life is pretty trouble-free compared to probably 90% of guys out there. That "trouble" is just the normal everyday bullshit men have to go through day in and day out while alive, you've just never experienced it because you're a college-educated feminist-leaning urban white girl. You wouldn't be able to live with it for two weeks without breaking down sobbing in a psychiatric ward.

Oh well. It is what it is. But I don't need to read 1000 pages to understand this...

 

[Germanicus]

I did read Dune as a 14 year old. I liked it then and I like it now. Some people just can't get into science fiction, which is fine.

I like some science fiction. Part of the issue I have with Dune and many other "science fiction" novels is there doesn't seem to actually be much science to it. What is the Spice, exactly? Why does it do what it does? AFAIK we never find out the "whys" of stuff like that; they're just vehicles for the story. Might as well be magic. For my taste it feels too much like regular "wizards and dragons" fantasy, but set in space.

I like some stuff by authors like Stephen Baxter, Clarke, Larry Niven (Lucifer's Hammer was one of the better books about the aftermath of a comet impact, though a lot of people didn't like its 'race war' overtones...Niven also seems to be one of the few sci-fi writers who can write about relationships as if he might have actually had sex with a woman in his life; George Lucas certainly hasn't.) William Gibson is pretty good, too.

It's been said that there are two kinds of science fiction-- world building and world exploring. Explorers will build enough of a world to have their characters experience an imaginative story. Builders will explore enough of a story to ensure their world gets built.

Herbert's scientific background was in biology and psychology and it shows. Those are the topics he wants to concentrate on. He's not too focused on the physics of orinthopters or the exact chemical composition of the spice. The spice itself is supposed to be a mystery and the physics of things are supposed to be a bit alien and confusing-- the story takes place something like 30 thousand years from now and it's part of the psychological effect on the reader.

Other science fiction fans eat up the physics and the hard science elements of writers like Clarke or Niven. Clarke is a bit too mechanical for my taste and I've never read Niven by himself but I've read some of his collaborations with Pournelle and those were decent books.

Both approaches have their merits. Me, I'm most into the mind fuck style of SF novel -- Phillip K. Dick, JG Ballard being two of my favorites. I never got into fantasy-- it's silly and anything interesting or cerebral about it you can get from reading European medieval history instead. Fuck Game of Thrones, read a Distant Mirror.

Gibson's not bad, I enjoyed Neuromancer and its sequels, but how you feel about Dune is how I feel about a lot of the Cyberpunk stuff-- it's light on science and heavy on talk about "information" and computer bio-augmentation implants while putting the burden on the reader to scientifically understand it on his own.

Double co-sign on a lot of authors (across all genres) not having a clue on how human sexuality works in the social sphere.

 

[Phoenix]

did it really take 1100 pages to say what it had to say?

Of course not, but it was enjoyable! Just like I'm sure the Muslim gets all fuzzy inside reading page after page of "God is Great, disbelievers will be punished!". I got all fuzzy inside reading pages and pages of dialogue of leftists being told why they're degenerate anti-social pieces of shit. I'd never experienced anything like that at the time I read it. At the time I just assumed everyone was a brain-dead leftist idiot and that every other book out there aligned with that.

 

[Stirfry]

Lol, I loved Atlas Shrugged. Still my favourite book ever. I can't remember what I searched for to discover it, something like "what is a book thats actually against leftist bullshit". Man it really was that. I used to come home every day after work, pour a drink, and enjoy. It certainly doesn't belong in this thread. I recognize that Ayn Rand was messed up in the head, but so was Mozart. If you ignore her fucked up or empty attitudes towards sex and family, everything else is great. Give credit where it's due.

Oh god no. Atlas Shrugged is an utter pile of dog crap. Severely poorly written, poor characterization, poor plotting, severely ham-handed spouting of dogma, and utter shit pacing-- did it really take 1100 pages to say what it had to say?

There are plenty of much more valuable anti-left books, although, there aren't many quality anti-left works of fiction. Atlas is to the literary anti-left kind of like the Republican Party is to the political anti-left-- talks a good game; not quite walking that talk.

I will credit Rand for some good things in it, though. Specifically she nailed the portrait of the socialite parasite class and the whole "You'll think of something Mr Rearden" theme as they expect other people to pay and sweat for their brainless schemes. Also the steady and stealthy implementation of leftist policy while they deny doing any such thing and the third party observers saying "oh, they can't possibly mean it" while those leftists do mean it and once they achieve it start shifting things even farther leftward. That has been the exact homosexualist and immigration agendas over the past 50 years and Rand called it exactly right. And Ragnar Danneskjold's anti-Marxist piracy is a badass concept that would make a great series of anti-leftist adventure stories.

One day I may sit down and write out a long essay on just why Atlas was poop, Objectivism is retarded, and Rand was an insane cunt. Not today, though. If you found solace in her stuff that's cool with me. I don't want to take that away from you. I just like a good heated but respectful debate. I'm definitely down for guys who see things differently from me coming back at me with facts and having some fun with the debate.

I half agree with you regarding "Atlas Shrugged." Essentially, its a work of science fiction/ fantasy, and like many science fiction writers of that time the characters are stiff and two dimensional, used merely as oafish foils or mouthpieces for different aspects of the author's philosophy. The dialog between the main characters is so awkward that if I met someone at a party who spoke to me that way I would suspect they had some mild form of brain damage. It probably wouldn't hold up well if you tried to poke holes in Objectivism, because there are so many parts that are easily criticized.

However, that being sad, if you have the patience to wade through it there are a few salient passages that are quite intelligent and insightful. For example, Francisco d'Anconia's long speech at the wedding party about the evils of money, or Hank Reardon's struggle against government mandated mediocrity, are very relevant to today (probably more so than Rand's America at that time).

But I would tend to agree- as a novel it's difficult to read the dreck between the valuable passages, and as a story it leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. Quite honestly, the essays published after her death are a much better summary of Objectivism, and much easier to read.

 

[Alsos]

I did read Dune as a 14 year old. I liked it then and I like it now. Some people just can't get into science fiction, which is fine.

I like some stuff by authors like Stephen Baxter, Clarke, Larry Niven (Lucifer's Hammer was one of the better books about the aftermath of a comet impact, though a lot of people didn't like its 'race war' overtones...Niven also seems to be one of the few sci-fi writers who can write about relationships as if he might have actually had sex with a woman in his life; George Lucas certainly hasn't.) William Gibson is pretty good, too.

Oh, Baxter. Avoid "Proxima". The plot goes nowhere, the premise for major parts of the book make absolutely no sense (examples: how the "settlers" are chosen, and how they are placed on the planet), and the science makes as much sense as something a five-year-old would concoct.

Niven is one of my favorite SF authors, but you made me chuckle there - I've been reading his stuff since I was about twelve, and even back then the sex-and-nudism parts of his books seemed weird and naive, in a peculiar, dated, 1960s free-love way. Or perhaps "gamma" in a way very common in SF (see Heinlein, Robert). The stuff he co-wrote, especially over the last 20-ish years, tends to be far more realistic and mature in its portrayals of sex and relationships. Which is a nitpick as I see it - his stuff is all quite good regardless.

 

[ElFlaco]

In the past, when I wanted to learn a subject, I would look for a textbook. It finally dawned on me that textbooks are written to sell to a captive audience, college students. They are written to raise the profile of the professor/author among his peers. The student reader isn't actually the primary audience. Professors don't get points for making their subject area look easy. To see this, ask yourself: how would this text have been written differently if the professor faced torture if his readers failed to learn?

 

[MajorStyles]

There is a good thread about must read books. Here you can post shitty books you didnt enjoy. I will start

Dianetics by Steve Hubbard. Couldnt make it past the first chapter.

The Koran.

I just picked up a copy of Dianetics in a used book store, since I have heard so much about about. I second your emotion - it's unbearable.

I actually feel like my IQ is sinking with each page. I'll never be able to look at Tom Cruise with a straight face again...

 

[storm]

Crime and punishment. The Great Gatsby. Pride and Prejudice. Walden. The Catcher in the Rye.

A good rule of thumb is if it on an 11th grade summer reading list: skip it.

 

[Hermetic Seal]

I think Atlas Shrugged's enduring appeal has a lot less to do with the philosophy, and more to do with two particular aspects: the chillingly vivid depiction of a society ruined by leftist pseudo-altruism, and a very original plot idea. The concept of productive people disappearing from society was compelling enough to keep me reading the book all by itself, even if the philosophy/characters/dialogue don't hold up.

I'm a big fan of science fiction but I never liked Dune much, either. While well-written, the world of the novel bored me, and I never cared about the plot or characters. Part of it is that the groundbreaking ideas from Dune were polished and refined by later works it influenced, and which I experienced first - making the original seem under-developed in comparison.

 

[stugatz]

I'm a big fan of Dune, but maybe that just comes from my father.

Not a lot of mentions here for the Harry Potter series, surprising. (Other than the fact that they're predictable and not really that well written, maybe some people here could help me out on what's so particularly damaging about the books, as I haven't read them in a decade. All I've noticed is that the worst kinds of people read them - and over and over again, as adults.)

 

[Alsos]

I'm a big fan of Dune, but maybe that just comes from my father.

Not a lot of mentions here for the Harry Potter series, surprising. (Other than the fact that they're predictable and not really that well written, maybe some people here could help me out on what's so particularly damaging about the books, as I haven't read them in a decade. All I've noticed is that the worst kinds of people read them - and over and over again, as adults.)

Wish fullfillment and Secret Kingery. Losers identifying with characters who start off as unloved outcasts like themselves, only to discover how special and important they really are, and eventually become popular, powerful, and the essential center of great things.

 

[Paracelsus]

I'm a big fan of Dune, but maybe that just comes from my father.

Not a lot of mentions here for the Harry Potter series, surprising. (Other than the fact that they're predictable and not really that well written, maybe some people here could help me out on what's so particularly damaging about the books, as I haven't read them in a decade. All I've noticed is that the worst kinds of people read them - and over and over again, as adults.)

Wish fullfillment and Secret Kingery. Losers identifying with characters who start off as unloved outcasts like themselves, only to discover how special and important they really are, and eventually become popular, powerful, and the essential center of great things.

Because of the intervals at which the books were written/released, a fair number of the bluehair set grew up with them, from roughly age 10 to 17. Hook 'em while they're young, as the cigarette business knows. And while you're reading them you can fool yourself, by identifying with the characters, that you actually still have some potential, that you didn't hit your high point in high school, that notwithstanding the fact you're employed as a barista/waitress/retail drone, you are still that important person you have had it drummed into you that you always were.

Someone once pointed out the essential difference between Harry Potter and, say, Pug-Milamber from the Riftwar Saga: Pug has to work his ass off to become what he becomes. Only then, because of what he's become, is he able to save the world. Harry Potter doesn't. He's the Chosen One from birth, already capable as a fucking infant of withstanding death at the hands of the Big Bad. Most of the heavy lifting is done for him by others or by faux-Excalibur devices he's handed, one book after the next. All Harry really does is show up and (eventually) die, and even that doesn't stick. Par for the course when you are a narcissist.

The Matrix was similar, but was aimed at Generation X. See The Last Psychiatrist for the blackpill-laced details.

 

[LeoneVolpe]

I beg to differ. If you're looking for arguments against something these two books are gold for shutting down "true" believers.

Must not read books include:
The Hunger Games
Eat, Pray, Love
50 Shade of Grey

Agreed.

In the summer of 2012, I couldn't go anywhere without seeing females reading copies of "Fifty Shades of Grey." Seriously, bitches were on that book like stink on shit. I'll be the first to admit, I was morbidly curious to see what all the fuss was about. I decided to pick up a copy in the hope of being able to extract from it something useful I could put to work in my own seductions. At the time, I thought of it as a "reconnaissance mission" of sorts, a sneak peek inside the female mind and what it finds arousing. Something Sun Tzu might've approved of in the name of getting to "know your enemy."

Now I wasn't expecting much from the book yet somehow got even less. To say it was complete and utter tripe would be an insult to tripe. I couldn't even finish it.

I'd say more, but this meme pretty much says it all...

[attachment=34700]

Moral of the story: If you're a rich, handsome billionaire -- women (even virgins) will let you grab 'em by the pussy...and more!

 

[They Call Me Mister Tony]

The strangest thing is that there are even MORE book sequels to Fifty Shades of Grey, and a movie that's supposed to come out next year or something.

 

[Alsos]

... "Fifty Shades of Grey"...

Talked with my 72-year-old mother yesterday. She said she'd started reading it at the suggestion of a couple of her friends.

I told her I didn't want her hanging around with those girls anymore as they were plainly a bad influence on her.

To her credit, she thought it was poorly-written.

 

[Off The Reservation]

If you agree with a must not read but somehow find yourself curious, then at least make it a must not buy. Get a used copy so that the author does not profit any further.

Perfect examples cited here, Eat Pray, 50 Shades, etc.