My suburb is getting pozzed and I would like to avoid confrontation and stay out of trouble. Tips?

Easy_C

Peacock
Don’t bother with most mace or pepper spray. Get bear spray from an outdoors store
3. Get a weapon, mace at least. The dog is better since the dog will prevent bad situations and is less likely to get you into trouble. But if things get really bad you have that last option.

But that said, move. A lot of places in KS/SD/WY are rural and homogeneous.
 

get2choppaaa

Pelican
I live in a mostly working class black/mexican neighborhood currently. We are making plans to move into the country.

I would highly suggest you and the old lady getting conceal carry permits. I also would get a very large dog that you know how to handle and command a little breathing room when walking. (GSD/Dobermans/any Mastiff breed) Blacks do not like dogs. Everyone know this. I have a 100 lb American Bulldog that I walk every day after work. I make a point to do so whenever the neighbors are out just so they associate me with the dog and know if the come knocking he's at the house. No-one says anything to me and everyone walks on the other side of the street when we go walking. I am also not friendly with people petting the animal either.

As far as the comments go, I would just keep quiet. Its easier to turn the other cheek knowing you have a firearm on you than to get into a fist fight with a gang of hoodlums.

Ultimately you need to move to a more favorable environment.
 
You're in a real bad-situation, and it is only going to get worse in the coming years.

1. Don't engage. "No thank you." Saying that is a good way to disengage. Just say that, and keep moving. "Do you have the time?" "No thank you." "Do you have spare change?" "No thank you." "Want to buy some girl scout cookies?" "No thank you."

Remember: On the street, the answer to every question is "No." or "No thank you." It's not uncommon for people to ask someone the time, and in the instant they look down at their watch, they sucker punch them.

2. Make plans to move out. Do your research for a future location. Build up a marketable skillset that you can take with you, and will allow you to move. You can code from anywhere there's an internet connection. A trade would be an excellent thing to invest in.

3. Start hitting them gym, lift heavy compound weights, and eat at a calorie surplus. If you "look like you can fight" people will be less likely to fight you, it's camouflage.
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
I think I've psyched myself out into thinking "No, I'm not acting like them - I never act poorly unless I'm responding to someone. However, if someone starts something, then I can just Hulk out to my heart's content because they asked for it. They need to know they provoked the wrong person." It's like I feel a lesson needs to be taught, and someone needs to teach it.
"But he started it" is the cause of probably 90% of the stabbings, shootings, and violence you are speaking as if you want to avoid. If you don't believe me, go make friends with a local cop and do a ride-along with him on a Friday or Saturday night. See if you have any sympathy for any of the crimes you see that were all done in retaliation for something.

Hell, even George Floyd was resisting because from his point of view, some guys came along, roused him up from a nice sleep, and started pushing him around and trying to shove him into a car and kidnap him, and he was merely reacting to their aggression. After all, passing a fake $20 is not an aggressive act.

If you are reacting with violence to a stranger, you are acting poorly, period (Unless we are talking about some extreme example of like a home invasion which we are not.)

You cannot teach people lessons these days. We don't have a stable society where that is even possible. You cannot even run a simulation where you control all the variables and the outcome is that someone learns something from the encounter. We have simply broken society where that no longer works. Frankly I'm surprised you can get people to remove their headphones but probably all you are doing is intimidating them, they are not learning anything about noise levels or private space or whatever and they probably go right back to their old behavior the next day.

No one cares who started something. Actually I probably look down more on the person who reacts, because they are both uncivilized, but the second party is uncivilized and lacks self control.
If you react poorly, violently, aggressively, or as a degenerate, then you are the one who failed. Maybe the other party failed first, but two failures are not better than one; they are worse. You are actually behaving badly, mimicking the behavior of those you supposedly criticize.

It is almost impossible for someone to trigger me with language, unless a good friend is really, really upset at me, which doesn't really happen. A stranger who is using profanity is someone I view mentally and spiritually so far below me, I struggle not to sneer or laugh at them. It's something I picked up in the PUA days. I remember being with a pretty successful good looking buddy and we were with some girls and one was making mildly critical comments, calling us weird or something. The friend of course, got all offended and became defensive proclaiming how he was a normal guy, what did she mean? What was he doing that was so weird anyway!

When the girls went the bathroom, my buddy couldn't believe how I was able to "keep my cool" at being criticized. That wasn't what happened at all. I didn't even notice criticism. I wasn't holding my breath in the face of a harsh condemnation. These drunk vixens simply did not matter to me in the slightest, particularly their opinion about my personality or behavior or something they couldn't possibly know anything about. Likewise with a street thug. Do I accept anything he says as valid? No. Am I curious of his opinion of me, or my hair style, or my girlfriend? These people do not matter to me. That may sound anti-social or bizarre, and perhaps it is, but people must first prove themselves before I give anything they say credence. Why would you validate the words of a stranger anyway, and allow them to interrupt your thoughts? My silent thoughts are far more important than whatever they are telling me (except in the case of offering polite assistance as I mentioned before).

If you care what a girl's opinion of you is, or the words that a stranger yells at you are important, or you feel some obligation to act because someone you do not know takes an action you don't like, then that is a problem you need to correct yourself, or you will face a difficult life.


I'll also, honestly, begin thinking seriously about teaching English abroad for awhile - this time I may intend on staying semi-permanently. Let's just say I felt far safer in Casablanca than I ever did in the Chicago loop. Maybe running away isn't that bad of an idea.
The only reason I am in America is for my nuclear family (I am unmarried). If you can go live in a more sane society, it's not a bad plan.

But you don't *have* to go that far. I visited the upper peninsula of Michigan last year for a week and don't recall seeing a single minority.
 
Last edited:

stugatz

Pelican
Thanks everyone for the moral support. While I am still angry at all of this, I now look at my altercation as one of the best things that's happened to me in recent memory. I blindly assumed "suburb = safe" and assumed that once I was out of the city I was home free. I now plan on channeling that anger into bettering myself - and moving even further out as soon as I can.

The relative I am living with is the one who picked this complex blindly without checking where it was. He may have also assumed that a black community in the suburbs, if it existed, would be a different flavor from those in nearby Minneapolis/St. Paul. But at this point it's all water under the bridge and I need to deal with his mistake.

Just some logistics about my suburb - it has close to 100,000 people, so it's definitely large enough to not be a "small town". It's about 80% white and 6% black - probably at least 5% of that white number is hispanic, so I'm dealing with 75% white at best, it could possibly be as low as 70%.

The low-income community I wrote about that is about half a mile from me has (from what I can see) 50 living units intended for families, so that's easily well over 100 people, probably far below 300. (However, like I said, this just considers those LIVING there and not those who visit and shuffle in and out.) The other two low-income apartment complexes in town - same company runs the other two - are thankfully miles away, but one is as close as one-and-a-half miles and the furthest out is maybe three. From what I can tell, they don't seem to really want to interact with the other people who live in this area. I always see them at the local Wal-Mart, but never, comparatively, at the nearby Target.

So this is thankfully not nearly as bad as my situation was when I lived in majority-minority Milwaukee, and it's a damn sight better than living in Minneapolis, St. Paul, or any of their completely ruined suburbs like Brooklyn Center. However, with numbers like this, how bad is my situation really? Am I a fool to think that I can stick this out a year (until fall of 2021) if I can just keep my overly proud nature in check? I have no means to move out again just yet - the original plan was that I live here two years and get back on my feet financially.

I have no real clue how badly they want to dilute the suburbs in the next few years. Step one might be to get to know some likeminded people in my complex just in case we have a bad situation this summer, but this is a 50/50 purple suburb full of people that might want to cancel me if I ever spoke aloud about that (according to my office manager, we have a few communities online, one on I think Nextdoor).
 

SlickyBoy

Hummingbird
Not to be pedantic, but "verbal judo" is responding to someone non-aggressively to take the air out of their balloon. That "may god be with you" response you suggested is sort of a version of it. I'll have to learn.

Small town 95% Caucasian America doesn't exist outside of maybe Idaho or Wyoming, and I don't have the resources to move out there. An 85% Caucasian purple suburb of a hellscape city is the best I can do for now, & it's going to have to do.

Like I said, though, 85% is who lives here as the crow flies...it doesn't take into account neighborhoods or who regularly comes in and visits.
How could you live there, not have the resources to move, and only just now realize you are a couple of blocks from a housing project? It doesn't sound like you grew up there so what's keeping you from looking elsewhere other than a paycheck or two of saved expenses?
 

STG

Woodpecker
I live about 20 miles from Minneapolis, but always suspected that since the nearby Wal-Mart is a far different demographic than most of this suburb, that they weren't coming from six miles away. I've confirmed that I live a mere few blocks away from public housing - gee, no wonder our garage has break-ins that the cops shrug at.

The other day I was walking on a nature trail with my visiting father. I've always noticed that about half a mile down it, we have a group of rowdy children (like 15 of them) that run around and overturn their own trash cans, but I've always just ignored them and kept walking, as it's not my apartment complex and they don't bother us. Well, a couple of days ago, I actually listened to what they were yelling, and it was racial epithets & taunts directed at me and my father. (And I'm talking X-rated stuff that I wouldn't have known at that age - the oldest one was probably 11 at most.) One kid even threw a stick at us as we walked past, as they wanted us to "keep walking and go away". We sadly had to end up turning around at the end of our walk and walking the same way back, as this is a straight trail with no curve. Taunting was worse the second time, and I ended up shooting one of them the bird, knowing that likely anyone they told wouldn't believe them. (I am in no way proud of this.) I stared all 4 of them down on the way out, just in case I ended up getting a rock thrown at my head as I looked the other way.

I've now gotten a lot more nervous about potentially having racial problems come near where I live. An 85% Caucasian demographics listing isn't exactly a fair way to spin it if you're living within proximity of probably two or three low-income complexes. Our local Wal-Mart was boarded up before Floyd verdict dropped for a reason. I'm afraid of three aspects of my personality:

1) I have a very troubling tendency to want to respond to any insults or disparaging comments I hear, and sadly, it doesn't matter how old they are. I was bullied for most of my life (including college) and I have chronic anger & rage problems as a result. I'm really bad at what Active Self-Protection calls "verbal judo".
2) On top of this, I feel a self-righteous indignation when I see someone not acting politely like they ought to, and I feel like I'm entitled to call him out & put a stop to it or even humiliate them. (For example, I've definitely told a person or two in a coffee shop to put their music on earphones so I can study in peace - usually name-calling and a raised voice is a part of this confrontation, and the few times I've done it, the person is too shocked and afraid to tell me no. I guess maybe it's the look on my face or the tone of my voice.)
3) Making *this* worse is the fact that I moved out to the suburbs at a great effort and a great cost, only to have a junior version of the problems I ran away from. I'm just flat out pissed that I lucked out and have all of these amenities at my disposal...and I can't use many of them for fear of a bad confrontation. I can't walk around at three in the morning or dare to leave my car unlocked.

Ultimately, though, I know that all of this stuff is on a collision course sooner or later. I just want to keep my head down and stay out of trouble before I get the opportunity to move out even further when my lease is up.

I guess my question is this - how exactly do I get a thicker skin and just shrug at more things? How do I let things like this roll off my back? Should I just keep a mental log of the clientele of every place I go and only go to certain places? I feel the right to feel angry about all of this, but I also know that someone like me these days is in a world of hurt if he berates the wrong person in this day and age. And it's really only a matter of time.
This is a sign its time to pack up and move. Get out of dodge while you still can.

Your ancestors likely made much more difficult moves.

There is nothing good in the future of American cities especially ones that have largely replaced the native populations that built up these areas. Most people know this, which is why there is a booming real estate market in rural areas of America.
 

stugatz

Pelican
How could you live there, not have the resources to move, and only just now realize you are a couple of blocks from a housing project? It doesn't sound like you grew up there so what's keeping you from looking elsewhere other than a paycheck or two of saved expenses?
Easy, I spent the rest of my money on my move here - I was jobless in Wisconsin because of mounting health problems and the pandemic. (The former have now been eased enough where I am looking for work outside of the freelance stuff where I make maybe 1K a month. My roommate covers the rent as a favor to me until I can kick in.)

I finished high school in this suburb about a decade ago - reason I didn't realize we had a project near us was because 1) I was unable to look for the apartment myself being a state away, so I trusted my housemate to do so and 2) when I lived here in oh, 2008, we lived in a community of large houses that was insulated from any and all vibrancy. I stupidly assumed the entire suburb was exactly like it and now I'm kicking myself.

As neither of us really have the funds to move a second time and break this lease (he's on a fixed income and I'm on an extremely limited one), I'm likely going to be stuck here until October unless some kind of windfall comes my way. Adding to this - I've also noticed my downstairs leasing office is trying to pre-emptively talk people into renewing for a second year. In the middle of April. They probably know that those that can afford it are moving at least to a part of town that isn't two feet away from a project.
 
I don't think safety is necessarily assured by choosing a majority white neighborhood. There are plenty of white neighborhoods that I wouldn't go to. Even median income isn't always a good indicator, since there are nicer cheap places where working class people live. The key is avoiding the projects and similar places where people are paid just to exist and not expected to contribute anything to society. Since these people have no stake in the success of their neighborhood, they act impulsively (sometimes violently) because either they know there will be no consequences or they believe those consequences are the necessary outcome of their lives (more than half of black men go to jail at some point). It seems like a cop-out to blame "the system" for the way they act, but it is an intentionally created system that produces people like this. The people at the top of the pyramid find it useful to have the equivalent of a rabid dog in their midst so that they can scare everybody else into submission.

As several previous commenters have pointed out, take whatever action you can within the limits of your situation to reduce your vulnerability to these people. If these kids regularly gather outside your complex, just keep calling the cops until they move on to a less disruptive spot. If you see a large group of them standing around, turn right around and walk back where you came from. Even if you could physically win a fight with these kinds of people, you would be the only one who loses. They have nothing to lose.
 

SlickyBoy

Hummingbird
As several previous commenters have pointed out, take whatever action you can within the limits of your situation to reduce your vulnerability to these people. If these kids regularly gather outside your complex, just keep calling the cops until they move on to a less disruptive spot. If you see a large group of them standing around, turn right around and walk back where you came from. Even if you could physically win a fight with these kinds of people, you would be the only one who loses. They have nothing to lose.
Are there skunks in your neighborhood? Find some skunk scent and put that out near the curb, or by areas you want to protect. Hey, it may be extreme but they probably won't come around much. I know of convenience stores that played elevator music in the parking lot to keep kids from hanging around outside. It worked.

 

stugatz

Pelican
I know of convenience stores that played elevator music in the parking lot to keep kids from hanging around outside. It worked.
That's hilarious, not a bad idea at all to suggest to the front office if we get loiterers.
If these kids regularly gather outside your complex, just keep calling the cops until they move on to a less disruptive spot. If you see a large group of them standing around, turn right around and walk back where you came from. Even if you could physically win a fight with these kinds of people, you would be the only one who loses. They have nothing to lose.
Thankfully nobody from the next-door project hangs around my complex yet - not really, anyway. Some people hanging out in the common areas (we have a lot of lounges) I've suspected aren't residents, but I haven't really had a lot to go on there (they seem to in general behave themselves and not tear the place up). I think they realize this is a suburb and they're surrounded, and generally act accordingly for now. (Although yeah, if we get more unrest this summer and oh, 25 swarm the lounge areas, it would be tough to control.)

That foulmouthed little girl screaming at me is probably just an example of typical childhood overconfidence where she's too young to realize it could be risky behavior. I'm a little embarrassed that I let it bother me this long (I admit that it still does when I think about it).
 

paninaro

Pelican
Do not engage. Also, I'd think very carefully about being armed because you may pull it on them in anger. Then those kids are going to go screaming back to their mothers (I highly doubt any fathers are on the picture, and they probably don't know who is the father anyway), and the mothers are going to call the cops. No matter what you say, the prosecutor and jury will see it as "evil bullying adult with gun vs. innocent honors-student kids who never did anything wrong." You're going to lose that one.

A dog is the way to go if you are able to get one.

As for where to live, the best way to avoid Section 8 housing is check the zoning laws where you are looking. Some areas are zoned only for single family homes, and Section 8 housing is usually apartments or maybe smaller townhouses. Where I live, all the lots are minimum quarter-acre and the zoning prevents any construction of multi-family dwellings. I'd have to drive a few miles to find the nearest apartment building, and the people living there aren't going to drive a few miles to hang out in my neighborhood and harrass the residents.

Who wants to take bets that half the kids you encounter will be in the prison system in the next 10 years?
 
I live about 20 miles from Minneapolis, but always suspected that since the nearby Wal-Mart is a far different demographic than most of this suburb, that they weren't coming from six miles away. I've confirmed that I live a mere few blocks away from public housing - gee, no wonder our garage has break-ins that the cops shrug at.

The other day I was walking on a nature trail with my visiting father. I've always noticed that about half a mile down it, we have a group of rowdy children (like 15 of them) that run around and overturn their own trash cans, but I've always just ignored them and kept walking, as it's not my apartment complex and they don't bother us. Well, a couple of days ago, I actually listened to what they were yelling, and it was racial epithets & taunts directed at me and my father. (And I'm talking X-rated stuff that I wouldn't have known at that age - the oldest one was probably 11 at most.) One kid even threw a stick at us as we walked past, as they wanted us to "keep walking and go away". We sadly had to end up turning around at the end of our walk and walking the same way back, as this is a straight trail with no curve. Taunting was worse the second time, and I ended up shooting one of them the bird, knowing that likely anyone they told wouldn't believe them. (I am in no way proud of this.) I stared all 4 of them down on the way out, just in case I ended up getting a rock thrown at my head as I looked the other way.

I've now gotten a lot more nervous about potentially having racial problems come near where I live. An 85% Caucasian demographics listing isn't exactly a fair way to spin it if you're living within proximity of probably two or three low-income complexes. Our local Wal-Mart was boarded up before Floyd verdict dropped for a reason. I'm afraid of three aspects of my personality:

1) I have a very troubling tendency to want to respond to any insults or disparaging comments I hear, and sadly, it doesn't matter how old they are. I was bullied for most of my life (including college) and I have chronic anger & rage problems as a result. I'm really bad at what Active Self-Protection calls "verbal judo".
2) On top of this, I feel a self-righteous indignation when I see someone not acting politely like they ought to, and I feel like I'm entitled to call him out & put a stop to it or even humiliate them. (For example, I've definitely told a person or two in a coffee shop to put their music on earphones so I can study in peace - usually name-calling and a raised voice is a part of this confrontation, and the few times I've done it, the person is too shocked and afraid to tell me no. I guess maybe it's the look on my face or the tone of my voice.)
3) Making *this* worse is the fact that I moved out to the suburbs at a great effort and a great cost, only to have a junior version of the problems I ran away from. I'm just flat out pissed that I lucked out and have all of these amenities at my disposal...and I can't use many of them for fear of a bad confrontation. I can't walk around at three in the morning or dare to leave my car unlocked.

Ultimately, though, I know that all of this stuff is on a collision course sooner or later. I just want to keep my head down and stay out of trouble before I get the opportunity to move out even further when my lease is up.

I guess my question is this - how exactly do I get a thicker skin and just shrug at more things? How do I let things like this roll off my back? Should I just keep a mental log of the clientele of every place I go and only go to certain places? I feel the right to feel angry about all of this, but I also know that someone like me these days is in a world of hurt if he berates the wrong person in this day and age. And it's really only a matter of time.
Make those bastards famous on Twitter... give them a taste of being called out. Parents ought to be ashamed of themselves.
 

Cr33pin

Peacock
Gold Member
200.gif
 

Leonard

Chicken
I live about 20 miles from Minneapolis, but always suspected that since the nearby Wal-Mart is a far different demographic than most of this suburb, that they weren't coming from six miles away. I've confirmed that I live a mere few blocks away from public housing - gee, no wonder our garage has break-ins that the cops shrug at.

The other day I was walking on a nature trail with my visiting father. I've always noticed that about half a mile down it, we have a group of rowdy children (like 15 of them) that run around and overturn their own trash cans, but I've always just ignored them and kept walking, as it's not my apartment complex and they don't bother us. Well, a couple of days ago, I actually listened to what they were yelling, and it was racial epithets & taunts directed at me and my father. (And I'm talking X-rated stuff that I wouldn't have known at that age - the oldest one was probably 11 at most.) One kid even threw a stick at us as we walked past, as they wanted us to "keep walking and go away". We sadly had to end up turning around at the end of our walk and walking the same way back, as this is a straight trail with no curve. Taunting was worse the second time, and I ended up shooting one of them the bird, knowing that likely anyone they told wouldn't believe them. (I am in no way proud of this.) I stared all 4 of them down on the way out, just in case I ended up getting a rock thrown at my head as I looked the other way.

I've now gotten a lot more nervous about potentially having racial problems come near where I live. An 85% Caucasian demographics listing isn't exactly a fair way to spin it if you're living within proximity of probably two or three low-income complexes. Our local Wal-Mart was boarded up before Floyd verdict dropped for a reason. I'm afraid of three aspects of my personality:

1) I have a very troubling tendency to want to respond to any insults or disparaging comments I hear, and sadly, it doesn't matter how old they are. I was bullied for most of my life (including college) and I have chronic anger & rage problems as a result. I'm really bad at what Active Self-Protection calls "verbal judo".
2) On top of this, I feel a self-righteous indignation when I see someone not acting politely like they ought to, and I feel like I'm entitled to call him out & put a stop to it or even humiliate them. (For example, I've definitely told a person or two in a coffee shop to put their music on earphones so I can study in peace - usually name-calling and a raised voice is a part of this confrontation, and the few times I've done it, the person is too shocked and afraid to tell me no. I guess maybe it's the look on my face or the tone of my voice.)
3) Making *this* worse is the fact that I moved out to the suburbs at a great effort and a great cost, only to have a junior version of the problems I ran away from. I'm just flat out pissed that I lucked out and have all of these amenities at my disposal...and I can't use many of them for fear of a bad confrontation. I can't walk around at three in the morning or dare to leave my car unlocked.

Ultimately, though, I know that all of this stuff is on a collision course sooner or later. I just want to keep my head down and stay out of trouble before I get the opportunity to move out even further when my lease is up.

I guess my question is this - how exactly do I get a thicker skin and just shrug at more things? How do I let things like this roll off my back? Should I just keep a mental log of the clientele of every place I go and only go to certain places? I feel the right to feel angry about all of this, but I also know that someone like me these days is in a world of hurt if he berates the wrong person in this day and age. And it's really only a matter of time.
Hi.
From pronouncing your name (and also from the way you write), I thought you might be originally from Italy. I am maybe completely off, but, if I am right, I think you should consider moving back to Italy (if you could, of course). After thirty-five years in the U.S., I would really like to go back ( I'm from there).
If I have to succumb in the fight against Liberalism, I'd rather do it surrounded by the beauty our Christian ancestors built.
Che Dio sia con te, fratello.
L.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Hi.
From pronouncing your name (and also from the way you write), I thought you might be originally from Italy. I am maybe completely off, but, if I am right, I think you should consider moving back to Italy (if you could, of course). After thirty-five years in the U.S., I would really like to go back ( I'm from there).
If I have to succumb in the fight against Liberalism, I'd rather do it surrounded by the beauty our Christian ancestors built.
Che Dio sia con te, fratello.
L.
I wish! My username is the name of Tony Soprano's boat. (Although I'm mostly southern Italian ethnically and a traditionalist Catholic. My grandmother was an immigrant and spoke all Italian until she hit her late teens.)

If I do end up spending time away from the United States to teach English, it would probably be in Italy or Spain (I'm definitely high intermediate level in Spanish, so Italian wouldn't be that much of a difficulty spike). Maybe an Eastern European country if I end learning one of the languages of the FSU, but those are a lot harder.

I spent nine months in the Middle East as a student and probably wouldn't go back. The pressure to convert to Islam wasn't overwhelming, but pretty constant, and I couldn't make any real local friends there as a result.

It's been dawning on me lately, though, that the happiest I've ever been is when I was abroad. I don't really have any roots in any major metro areas in the US (moved a lot as a kid), and I wouldn't lose much if I was an expat for the rest of my life.
 
Top