My view on dating in the USA.....is this accurate?

I have found dating in the United States to be a demoralizing pursuit. I am not posting here to complain, but simply to gauge the accuracy of my observations/conclusions.

There are a few avenues an American man can take to meet women....

-Online dating
-"Going out" and "gaming"

I don't buy the whole meeting women at church. At the church I have attended the average age of women there is 50+.

That's besides the point....

The point is I have found American women to be extremely shallow, narcissistic, competitive, and judgmental. I say this as a fit, educated, and somewhat young (mid-twenties) man.

I am by no means perfect. However, I am sober enough in my thought to see that many women who would make below average mothers/mates have an inflated sense of self.

Again, I try to gauge the accuracy of my conclusions. I have spoken to other male friends and family members who have participated in modern dating.

Ghosting seems to be a very common theme. I have also had friends who have separated from long-term girlfriends only to see these women hop back on the hookup apps just weeks/months later.

When I step back and analyze this all from a macro perspective: In a post corona....mask wearing, social justice world the trend of dating will continue to move towards online (where the average man is steeply disadvantaged).

Through my twenties living in the United States the dating market has deteriorated more and more each year. I am open to reality checks......but this is the way I see it. Is anyone else experiencing this?
 

kel

Pelican
That's an accurate reflection of the dating market in the US (and everywhere else I've been in the industrialized world, pretty much. Basically anywhere with a welfare state and plentiful 4g data).

Dating and relationships are broken badly right now. Sex and intimacy have been completely commodified (ironically by women who often identify as some variety of communist). It's a product. Your average woman is basically a whore, one that is paid in status if not in material goods. It sucks. Best you can do is recognize this fact and act accordingly, namely b*ng if you want you and understand that it is that and just that and can never be more and attempting to make it more will only leave you disappointed or try to drop out of that as much as possible and work to find women who are doing likewise.
 

bucky

Pelican
It's not easy out there. It wasn't easy then years ago when I was single, but with much effort I had some success. It's probably even tougher now though.

I spent a lot of time in the FSU and Latin America too when I was single and found I'd almost always get better women with less effort in those places. Caveats:

1) I personally don't think Russian and Ukrainian women make very good wives in most cases.

2) Many Latina women are good wife material, but if marry one you'll be connected to her country for the rest of your life and odds are it's a total hellhole, to use a softer version of the term our president got in trouble for when he used it to describe Haiti.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
There are a few threads covering this. That I can think of:

 

Zeknichov

Pigeon
Over the last 2.5 years I have been on dates with over 100 different women. Some weeks I had a new woman every day. Some months I'd spend $2000 just on dating alone. Within that period of time I had about 3 relationships that lasted 2-3 months. I met all these women either through online dating or going out to the bar.

It is absolutely brutal out there. Most women are crass, over-confident, combative/competitive, egotistic, masculine and greedy. Not a single woman has been worth my time. Everything you say is accurate. Most of these women overvalue themselves and act as if you are worth nothing to them. Even the 200 pound fat girl feel entitled to you. Women see relationships as purely transactional. You are nothing more than an accessory to their lifestyle. I don't think the majority of women understand love at all or desire it.

I'm just going to second that other guy regarding Russians. Stay the fuck away from Russians. They look and sound good on paper but they're the most selfish and uncompromising out there.

I've really been at a loss lately on this subject lately which is why I'm on here. It's the one thing in my life I wish I could complete. My latest probably bad idea is I'm going hiking with a group of Mormon on Sunday.

Sadly, I think romantic relationships are pretty much over. You can find business partnerships out there that you can engage in if you're willing to settle for a woman your heart will never truly desire who will never truly excite you but if you seek love, passion and intimacy, you're pretty much out of luck. Almost every country worth living in has been compromised and if you bring any woman back to a civilization that has promoted sexual liberation and cultural marxism (almost all developed countries), she'll eventually turn on you as she becomes greedy like everyone else.

You have to find women who have a solid grounding in an impersonal morality. I think silos of extremely religious women or women from small towns in countries where they don't speak English might be the only places left.
 
Dating in the US is basically a rip off and generally not worth the squeeze for the most part.

1. The legal system is anti-marriage/anti-family/anti-middle class.

2. The legal system "believes all women" and so you better not make a innocent harmless wrong move when interacting with a woman.

3. Men are openly discriminated against professionally and personally; potentially affecting cash flow and opportunities. If you're white and conservative, it's even worse; especially if you live/work in a blue zone.

4. Many of the men are soyboys, cucks,, thirsty, and/or have no spine; which leads to their being no pressure on women to clean up their act.

5. Many of the women are militant feminists and have fucked up values; much of them learned from corrupt (((media))) and their feminist moms.

6. Outside of Miami, LA, and NYC, there is virtually no environmental pressure on women to take care of their appearance and maintain a healthy figure.

In short, there are overwhelming forces working against decent men in the US and it's not going to change easily nor quickly anytime soon excluding some catastrophic event like a war killing half the men or something.. The rot and damage is very severe and runs deep.

The best case if you're in the USA:

1. Find a church with a younger crowd.

2. Focus on places where higher quality women hang out (Example: library vs bar. Volunteer work vs nightclub).

3. Find a niche activity and become a prominent respected figure within it.

4. Discriminate extremely aggressively early on in dating to avoid wasting time on low quality women. The faster you can cycle through prospects, the more likely you'll hit gold eventually.

5. Travel outside the US and regain some sanity there from time to time.

6. Import a woman (but at great risk due to environmental corruption).

7. Leave the US permanently and write it off as a lost cause.

It's not impossible to have success in the US but you have to understand the screwed up circumstances and combat them accordingly.
 
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FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
I have found dating in the United States to be a demoralizing pursuit. I am not posting here to complain, but simply to gauge the accuracy of my observations/conclusions.

There are a few avenues an American man can take to meet women....

-Online dating
-"Going out" and "gaming"

I don't buy the whole meeting women at church. At the church I have attended the average age of women there is 50+.

That's besides the point....

The point is I have found American women to be extremely shallow, narcissistic, competitive, and judgmental. I say this as a fit, educated, and somewhat young (mid-twenties) man.

I am by no means perfect. However, I am sober enough in my thought to see that many women who would make below average mothers/mates have an inflated sense of self.

Again, I try to gauge the accuracy of my conclusions. I have spoken to other male friends and family members who have participated in modern dating.

Ghosting seems to be a very common theme. I have also had friends who have separated from long-term girlfriends only to see these women hop back on the hookup apps just weeks/months later.

When I step back and analyze this all from a macro perspective: In a post corona....mask wearing, social justice world the trend of dating will continue to move towards online (where the average man is steeply disadvantaged).

Through my twenties living in the United States the dating market has deteriorated more and more each year. I am open to reality checks......but this is the way I see it. Is anyone else experiencing this?
I feel sorry for people under the age of 30 right now. You came of age in a time when online dating was THE way to meet people, where I've always been under the impression its a garbage heap. So your lives are dependent on the internet/social media and you think it reflects real life. And there's a lot of social skills lost when you've built your whole social life online. Young girls also don't have these skills either, which means normal men (like me) who have social skills have little to work with. I prefer older chicks for this reason.

Younger guys don't really understand what it was like 10-20 years ago, so they don't have the tools to navigate the dating market. I've actually talked to some 25 year olds who have never approached a girl before, all they know is dating apps. Most girls aren't into hooking up on the first date. This is a small number of girls, and usually the ones in big cities. If you look at survey research, sex among teens and 20 year olds is actually down. Most people don't actually ever meetup online -- this is part of the social autism that has inflicted 20 somethings in the US. I think there's a perception vs. reality issue here. Perception: girls are hooking up with guys left and right, because they're so hard to get on dating apps. Reality: most girls aren't leaving the house. They're stuck in their online worlds where they get a lot of fake praise and attention. It's even worse after COVID. The girls I know that are hooking up online are land whales or over 40.

There are plenty of chicks all over the place that aren't completely socially lost but you can only find them offline. Personally, I don't like the younger girls (<26). They're obsessed with their phones and always have ear buds in. At least here in Dallas, they own too many dogs, which is also a tell of being immature. Do you really think these girls are hooking up with guys left or right? Most of them are socially weird, even if they're very pretty. People are maturing at a much later age than in the past, which is also a problem. Gen X helicopter parents don't cut the cord early enough and that's also part of why girls have bad behavior. I grew up in a single parent Boomer household, my mom was never around. This is how Gen X grew up and they're overcompensating with their own kids. My sister is a year younger than me, she's not like this at all. Has kids and a husband and everything. Not even religious. Loyal to a fault.

As far as meeting girls at church, it's wholeheartedly possible. But you have to get really involved and go on the regular. Texas has a lot of churches with a ton of cute young chicks, it's not 50 year olds everywhere. If you go to church in the Northeast it's different, young people don't go to church in the Northeast. Where you live in the country decides what options you have in terms of women. Going overseas to find religious women is a bad idea, they will only view you as a meal ticket. What do you have to offer over a local man except your American Citizenship?

My point is, the "woe is me" stuff needs to stop.
Guys need to stop being so negative, especially the really young guys who have a lot of time to figure this out.
 

Zeknichov

Pigeon
I feel sorry for people under the age of 30 right now. You came of age in a time when online dating was THE way to meet people, where I've always been under the impression its a garbage heap. So your lives are dependent on the internet/social media and you think it reflects real life. And there's a lot of social skills lost when you've built your whole social life online. Young girls also don't have these skills either, which means normal men (like me) who have social skills have little to work with. I prefer older chicks for this reason.

Younger guys don't really understand what it was like 10-20 years ago, so they don't have the tools to navigate the dating market. I've actually talked to some 25 year olds who have never approached a girl before, all they know is dating apps. Most girls aren't into hooking up on the first date. This is a small number of girls, and usually the ones in big cities. If you look at survey research, sex among teens and 20 year olds is actually down. Most people don't actually ever meetup online -- this is part of the social autism that has inflicted 20 somethings in the US. I think there's a perception vs. reality issue here. Perception: girls are hooking up with guys left and right, because they're so hard to get on dating apps. Reality: most girls aren't leaving the house. They're stuck in their online worlds where they get a lot of fake praise and attention. It's even worse after COVID. The girls I know that are hooking up online are land whales or over 40.

There are plenty of chicks all over the place that aren't completely socially lost but you can only find them offline. Personally, I don't like the younger girls (<26). They're obsessed with their phones and always have ear buds in. At least here in Dallas, they own too many dogs, which is also a tell of being immature. Do you really think these girls are hooking up with guys left or right? Most of them are socially weird, even if they're very pretty. People are maturing at a much later age than in the past, which is also a problem. Gen X helicopter parents don't cut the cord early enough and that's also part of why girls have bad behavior. I grew up in a single parent Boomer household, my mom was never around. This is how Gen X grew up and they're overcompensating with their own kids. My sister is a year younger than me, she's not like this at all. Has kids and a husband and everything. Not even religious. Loyal to a fault.

As far as meeting girls at church, it's wholeheartedly possible. But you have to get really involved and go on the regular. Texas has a lot of churches with a ton of cute young chicks, it's not 50 year olds everywhere. If you go to church in the Northeast it's different, young people don't go to church in the Northeast. Where you live in the country decides what options you have in terms of women. Going overseas to find religious women is a bad idea, they will only view you as a meal ticket. What do you have to offer over a local man except your American Citizenship?

My point is, the "woe is me" stuff needs to stop.
Guys need to stop being so negative, especially the really young guys who have a lot of time to figure this out.
Men are only negative because the situation causes it. Hope when you're never rewarded with success is only sustainable for so long in every person.

In the words of Thomas Sowell: " It always amazes me how many people there are who never seem to understand that what they have done has contributed to the consequences that followed."

Women treat men so poorly that it leads to the "woe is me" attitude and you can try to break men out of it with the delusion of hope every now and then but eventually they'll sink back into this attitude because it is a reflection of the reality.

But yeah, I think church might be the only way to go at the moment. It's where I've ended up to try and meet women. Every other avenue has failed.
 
I am an American expat and don't even think about women when I am back in the US. For better or worse, the women there don't rise to a standard that would stimulate a heterosexual response. My main concern when I am there is to avoid interactions with mentally ill service workers so I don't have a confrontation. The level of social retardation has reached a level where it is hard to conduct the business of daily life without fighting with belligerent women. Dating is out of the question.

If you are in your 20s, there are still women in your age range who aren't physically grotesque, although mental problems seem to already be rampant in that group as well.
 

asdf

Sparrow
There really is no point in trying to push in the current dating market. My advice to the younger guys from me who is happily engaged in their late 20s: Either search in niche social groups in the US that you are in, or start making exploratory trips abroad, especially latin america.

Absolutely do not go out to clubs and bars or anything that involves alcohol. Do not go the social mainstream route, youll mostly find either braindead ditzes that are into TV, insta, and pop culture or sjw-tainted bitches. Do not compromise what you want with what is currently offered to you. You are much better off staying single than taking the low hanging fruit.
 

GibsMeDat

Sparrow
There really is no point in trying to push in the current dating market. My advice to the younger guys from me who is happily engaged in their late 20s: Either search in niche social groups in the US that you are in, or start making exploratory trips abroad, especially latin america.

Absolutely do not go out to clubs and bars or anything that involves alcohol. Do not go the social mainstream route, youll mostly find either braindead ditzes that are into TV, insta, and pop culture or sjw-tainted bitches. Do not compromise what you want with what is currently offered to you. You are much better off staying single than taking the low hanging fruit.
Late twenties for a man sounds good to me -- do you recommend going for the early 20s girls?
 

asdf

Sparrow
Don't "go" for anything. Firstly you should be compatible in a spiritual, conversation, activities lifestyle etc... , and girls who are worth being in a relationship (not sleeping around, not drinking, taking care to be thin) dont age like shit generally. If youre 24-30, the girl you will naturally be compatible with will be 20-27.
 

Zeknichov

Pigeon
Late twenties for a man sounds good to me -- do you recommend going for the early 20s girls?
It depends more on the girl herself than her age. An early twenties girl who values chastity and does not believe in divorce would probably be fine. These are extremely rare though. If you're trying to date the average girl who has embraced modernity, I would say the sweet spot is 23-27. Lots of modern women use their late teens/college year to fuck around with men then after they've established a career, they decide they want to settle down. The sweet spot for this is 23-27. Past 27yo chances are they are were in a long-term serious relationship that damaged them, they never truly got off the fuck around track or they overvalue themselves.

This is just a general rule based on my experience. There are always exceptions.
 
Over the last 2.5 years I have been on dates with over 100 different women. Some weeks I had a new woman every day. Some months I'd spend $2000 just on dating alone. Within that period of time I had about 3 relationships that lasted 2-3 months. I met all these women either through online dating or going out to the bar.
From what I get out of your posts is that you put quantity over quality. You attract what you are. Don't compromize on your character and values and you will filter out all the girls that you don't value. You may have a dozen dates in your 2.5 years, but they will be more worthwhile than your 100+ during that time. 23-27 is too old. Traditional minded girls who are 23 and not married have, in my experience, a severe issue they are trying to hide or are not even aware of it. Usually it is that they don't trust men or are extremely desperate. Aim for 16-22 years of age. Now 16 years of age might sound pretty young, but there can be girls that are mature for their age and likely they will have no sexual experience; and, of course, you have to keep everything halal™ until you marry her.

Taking a non-virgin is a risk of taking a girl who is not mentally sound. Think about it: she was already used by her first love, so, how much will she trust other men afterwards? The distrust and emotional pain increases with every additional notch. Sure, by being an example of a man you can alleviate her issues (to some degree), but on the other hand it is not your job to be the psychiatrist.

Also, bars and online dating are trash. As @asdf said, find a niche group and integrate yourself there.
 

Zeknichov

Pigeon
From what I get out of your posts is that you put quantity over quality. You attract what you are. Don't compromize on your character and values and you will filter out all the girls that you don't value. You may have a dozen dates in your 2.5 years, but they will be more worthwhile than your 100+ during that time. 23-27 is too old. Traditional minded girls who are 23 and not married have, in my experience, a severe issue they are trying to hide or are not even aware of it. Usually it is that they don't trust men or are extremely desperate. Aim for 16-22 years of age. Now 16 years of age might sound pretty young, but there can be girls that are mature for their age and likely they will have no sexual experience; and, of course, you have to keep everything halal™ until you marry her.

Taking a non-virgin is a risk of taking a girl who is not mentally sound. Think about it: she was already used by her first love, so, how much will she trust other men afterwards? The distrust and emotional pain increases with every additional notch. Sure, by being an example of a man you can alleviate her issues (to some degree), but on the other hand it is not your job to be the psychiatrist.

Also, bars and online dating are trash. As @asdf said, find a niche group and integrate yourself there.
Thanks for the advice. I actually don't think I put quantity over quality despite how that may appear. I happen to be pretty good looking and all of these women, except for the rare ones with tricky photos appeared to be quality to me. I might be a little too forgiving in the sense that I give people the benefit of the doubt. Women lie so much it's tough to figure them out without an in-person meet. I'm getting better at being able to judge based on looks and small interactions alone but I hate being judgemental like that; however, I'm realizing now that I need to be to save myself the time/effort/money.

I was only giving advice based on if he wanted to date a woman who embraced modernity. For wanting an ideal woman then I agree with you on your age category completely. I would even suggest younger were it legal. You have to be careful here though because even if she's 16 and a virgin it doesn't mean she has a good sense of morality. Without a solid moral foundation, she will likely still leave you still but the chances will be lower.

Virgins are always preferable, always, but arguably you are better off with a 23yo with strong morals than a 16yo without them. There are valid reasons for a 23yo to not be married with kids already. Some religions bar women from that path until they are 20yos for example but still enforce chastity. Circumstance (moving locations; lack of available men) might have denied her the opportunity and she might actually be quite ready to finally settle-down. But I'm probably doing my usual giving people the benefit of the doubt problem. It's just such slim pickings out there that I'm willing to check anything that has potential out just to see.

I mean realistically how does a 32yo marry a 16yo virgin with a solid moral foundation that simply wants to have children and raise a family these days? Doesn't seem practical. A 23yo virgin religious girl who just hasn't found the right guy yet seems a little more reasonable.
 

GibsMeDat

Sparrow
The world has changed so much -- even in the Philippines the average age of marriage for women is 25 years now. So unless you go to caveman Afghanistan, you're out of luck to find a solid (non-mail-order-bride) girl to marry before she's 20.


I say this as someone with roots in a few third world countries. My mom got married at 20. My female cousins are getting married at 29. Shit has changed.
 

Zeknichov

Pigeon
The world has changed so much -- even in the Philippines the average age of marriage for women is 25 years now. So unless you go to caveman Afghanistan, you're out of luck to find a solid (non-mail-order-bride) girl to marry before she's 20.


I say this as someone with roots in a few third world countries. My mom got married at 20. My female cousins are getting married at 29. Shit has changed.
Yeah, I agree with you. Just a note on those stats though, they are going to be inflated by all the 30yo+s getting married... So those places listing 20-22yo as average age for women getting married likely have a lot of women <20yo in that mix.

While 16yo might be ideal from a biological perspective, it doesn't mean 27yo is undesirable. No relationship is ever truly perfectly ideal.

With that being said, the previous poster is 100% right in correlating the strength of the relationship to the woman being younger in age when she engages in it but a large portion of this correlation has to do with chastity so a 29yo virgin is going to be superior to a 23yo whore. The previous poster just thinks that a 29yo virgin has no business still being a 29yo virgin but I disagree with this because especially these days, it's actually difficult for chaste women to find men that value chastity and intend to marry her after taking her virginity so these women have to be more cautious which leads to them marrying older.
 
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Speculation

Kingfisher
I mean realistically how does a 32yo marry a 16yo virgin with a solid moral foundation that simply wants to have children and raise a family these days? Doesn't seem practical. A 23yo virgin religious girl who just hasn't found the right guy yet seems a little more reasonable.
I see this concept or some variant so often on this board and throughout what was the manosphere - "Marry some girl in her early 20's. Any older than that and they've hit the wall".

It completely goes against anything I've seen as functionally practical in the real world. If you're in your 20's, fine. But if you're in your 30's or older in the West, you're really stretching to get a girl more than 10 years younger than you for a stable relationship. Even if you can get them, you can't rely on them as a partner who can think for themselves. They're often in a different place where they haven't explored the world and constructed a solid basis for their core personality based on life experience. This makes it difficult to relate to them and they can end up breaking away from you after they've self-actualized.

I understand that girls who reach their 30's without settling down often have some mental obstacle or issue which they haven't overcome. But so do guys (and there are numerous examples of this on this ex-pua board). The best thing to do if you're older is to find a girl that has overcome those issues and is truly repentant.

Don't even get me started on the concept of only marrying a virgin. Its great if you can get them, but if you have this as a deal breaker you risk waiting for a very long time. More so if you've left the green fields of the university dating environment. Virginity is fantastic for pair bonding, but its no guarantee of long term compatibility. You're relying on the chemical bond to do the heavy lifting for you with a much younger woman.

I don't mean by any of this that men should settle down with the toxic trash that infests the West. What I'm saying is that realistic compromise is needed, particularly while we age.
 
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