My view on dating in the USA.....is this accurate?

Days of Broken Arrows

Crow
Gold Member
Over the last 2.5 years I have been on dates with over 100 different women. Some weeks I had a new woman every day. Some months I'd spend $2000 just on dating alone. Within that period of time I had about 3 relationships that lasted 2-3 months. I met all these women either through online dating or going out to the bar.

It is absolutely brutal out there. Most women are crass, over-confident, combative/competitive, egotistic, masculine and greedy. Not a single woman has been worth my time. Everything you say is accurate. Most of these women overvalue themselves and act as if you are worth nothing to them. Even the 200 pound fat girl feel entitled to you. Women see relationships as purely transactional. You are nothing more than an accessory to their lifestyle. I don't think the majority of women understand love at all or desire it.

I'm just going to second that other guy regarding Russians. Stay the fuck away from Russians. They look and sound good on paper but they're the most selfish and uncompromising out there.

I've really been at a loss lately on this subject lately which is why I'm on here. It's the one thing in my life I wish I could complete. My latest probably bad idea is I'm going hiking with a group of Mormon on Sunday.

Sadly, I think romantic relationships are pretty much over. You can find business partnerships out there that you can engage in if you're willing to settle for a woman your heart will never truly desire who will never truly excite you but if you seek love, passion and intimacy, you're pretty much out of luck. Almost every country worth living in has been compromised and if you bring any woman back to a civilization that has promoted sexual liberation and cultural marxism (almost all developed countries), she'll eventually turn on you as she becomes greedy like everyone else.

You have to find women who have a solid grounding in an impersonal morality. I think silos of extremely religious women or women from small towns in countries where they don't speak English might be the only places left.
" I met all these women either through online dating or going out to the bar."

1). Online dating: Despite what you read in the media about technology changing the world, this much still holds true: Most of the women who do online dating have personalities (or other qualities) so awful that no man could deal with them in the real world.

People still meet in school when they're young and pair off. I see this firsthand with my nephews now. People also still meet at work (most HR departments are oblivious to what goes on). For the most part, the women dating online are the ones who either never got asked out...or turned down all the good guys...or something else of the sort.

When you get older, the online crowd expands to also feature angry divorced women. Do I really need to explain this any further?

One final thing. OKCupid, Tinder, Bumble, and other dating sites and "apps" (gag) provide a good source of advertising revenue to media outlets. So you can bet the media is going to write positively about how "influential" and "game-changing" they are.

Don't believe it. Whenever you read a "technology is changing humans" story, follow the money and look for company who is indirectly paying the writer's salary with advertising money.

2). Going out to the bar: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

The end.
 

Graft

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Modern dating, especially in coastal cities, is like a game of blackjack.

In blackjack, the dealer draws one card at a time for you. The goal is to add the numbers on the cards together and get them as close to 21 as possible. Just say the dealer draws a 9. You say: "hit me," so that he draws another card. If he draws a 3 on the next card, almost everyone will say "hit me" again, as the only way you'll go over 21 is if he draws a 10.

Picture the 21 in blackjack as the 21 favorable qualities that a woman looks for in a man.

From ages 18-26, the bitch could have 19 or 20 added up and she'd still say: "hit me." That's because there is no sense of urgency for these women to settle down. There is absolutely zero stigma for good looking successful men to marry a chick in her thirties-even if he's around the same age. Women understand that they will have time and options in their late 20's and even 30's, so their 20's are spent looking for perfection, or using their beauty to have as much "fun" as possible.

Once women get into early 30's, they will stop saying "hit me" once they hit 15 or so. I've seen plenty of broads hit their early 30s and settle down with a decent, hardworking, relatively good looking guy, but not a guy who has the X factor of slaying hotties 10 years younger than him.

There are plenty of young hot women in relationships, but these relationships are almost always convenient to her current social situation (school, friend group, etc.) Women just don't seem to get serious about a husband in the Northeast until they are in their late 20s or early 30s.

This phenomenon is region by region, country by country. In other regions, other countries, there is more social stigma to being an unattached chick in her mid 20s. In this environment, you have more of a shot if youre an 18 or 19 or 20 on the blackjack table-the chick will get clout just by having a boyfriend with an SMV that high, even if he is not relevant to her current social group.

I happen to think dating would be pretty easy for me if I stayed in my age bracket (late 20s early 30s). If I hit above 15 on the blackjack table, she'll probably keep me, as the biological realities of her fertility and beauty are hitting her.

Unfortunately, unlike ultra red pill countries like China, Ukraine, India, etc, plenty of high SMV men feel that it's absolutely acceptable and normal to marry a person whose entire 20s they missed out on.
 
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Part of the problem, is men have been told to live as women through their 20s (indulgence, travel, material goods, casual sex, etc.), because it's "the best time of your life". This is wrong, Men should be primarily focused on building their worth and confidence well into their mid-20s. A man's prime arguably doesn't even begin until nearly 30. Part of the problem I see, is that men are effectively stunted by wasting their youth trying to chase casual sex , fun, and short term validation from women, rather than focusing on their growth. So you have a generation of women increasingly trained and armed to filter out the simps, and milk them for fun and resources in the meantime. Women don't date the men they really want, they fawn over them and instantly submit to his whims. Women date men they don't respect.
 
The worst thing to happen to dating (unless you're in the top 10%-20% of looks) is the technological revolution resulting from smartphones, dating apps, and social media. Unless there's a concerted effort to reverse this I don't see things getting anything but worse for the average male as time goes by (not to mention the negative societal effects of having an increasing population of young, sexually frustrated males).
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Collectively out society has reaped what we have sown. Our fathers thought they could have a good prowl. In doing so there was nothing they could do to stop their daughters having multiples of their notch count. And their sons - it's got so bad some have even landed themselves on The SPLC hate list for hate crimes. Now their granddaughters are fighting for rights for sex workers.

Seemingly all civilisations, bar the Muhammadans, stringently enforced monogamy, because they will have found a sessed up society was easily picked off. Until it begins to make a comeback the situation will get worse. There are now probably more girls 18-21 who have engaged in some sort of sess work than have given serious thought to marriage.

There is a key difference in a lot of foreign countries. Western countries have been steeped in worship of pop culture icons who promote sinful and care-free lives. Although this permeates every country, the extent it taints varies. In Western countries, social hierarchies are dominated by the concept of cool - a satanic illusion created by pop culture. Cool is a combination of sins and vices and being steeped in this is what many western women have been programmed to bend over for. While in many other countries such concepts are still widely condemned. Many Asian girls will still choose the stable, decent-looking beta with a business over a flashy bad boy. But in The West, the value of such men, who our society depends on, has been smashed, denigrated and ridiculed. A woman is shamed by having to siddel up with such a pathetic creature.

As such there is a big difference in some countries between the dating/casual market and marriage market. The former consists of girls who have fallen to Westernisation. However, in The West, the marriage market primarily consists of girls who end up in marriage by chance, often after being in a relation for many years; or by panic sealing a beta.

Of non-Western countries there are the trashy ones (Latin, Philippines, parts of Africa) that are highly sessed and the more conservative (like Vietnam, Morocco). In the highly sessed you may be able to generate casual interest from a portion of women; while you will be able to generate marriage interest from a large number of women. Women in those countries often want to get married young due to insecurity, but the country is highly polluted by low trust-relationship based on a transnational-sex based society. In the more conservative ones it will be difficult to generate any casual interest, but you will have a lot of marriage interest.

In conservative countries women will likely become enamoured by attributes that Western women are turned off by. Things such as being caring, protective, serious etc. In those countries they often value men who have good morals; while in equally poor and sesed up countries they will be attracted to men with bad morals (bad boys). Latinas, for example, may like qualities like caring, protective, serious; but they likely want them on top of attributes that are converse, like being a bad boy.

In The West we have the worst of both worlds, in that traits like being caring, protective, serious are liable to be seen as demeaning and patriarchal.

I have been meaning to write a thread on my way of generating romantic relationships. I can't do the fake game thing at all. I can only be myself. And when it comes to women I think of what I do as baby-girling. I talk to them in a way and about topics, which positions me as the senior and them as the junior and I reduce them to being more child-like and vulnerable. It's taking the batton from the role their father (should have) played. A simple one is talking to them in the third person, e.g. "What did Natalya do today?", talking about fairly-tales, princes and princesses; playing games; things like lifting them up and telling them "You are so tall. You are the tallest girl in {country}." This works incredibly well with traditional girls. It is exactly what their hearts long for. But Western women usually despise it. They think it's demeaning - they are full women, experienced, professional, adult. They cannot allow you to take a senior position.
 
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Collectively out society has reaped what we have sown. Our fathers thought they could have a good prowl. In doing so there was nothing they could do to stop their daughters having multiples of their notch count. And their sons - it's got so bad some have even landed themselves on The SPLC hate list for hate crimes. Now their granddaughters are fighting for rights for sex workers.

Seemingly all civilisations, bar the Muhammadans, stringently enforced monogamy, because they will have found a sessed up society was easily picked off. Until it begins to make a comeback the situation will get worse. There are now probably more girls 18-21 who have engaged in some sort of sess work than have given serious thought to marriage.

There is a key difference in a lot of foreign countries. Western countries have been steeped in worship of pop culture icons who promote sinful and care-free lives. Although this permeates every country, the extent it taints varies. In Western countries, social hierarchies are dominated by the concept of cool - a satanic illusion created by pop culture. Cool is a combination of sins and vices and being steeped in this is what many western women have been programmed to bend over for. While in many other countries such concepts are still widely condemned. Many Asian girls will still choose the stable, decent-looking beta with a business over a flashy bad boy. But in The West, the value of such men, who our society depends on, has been smashed, denigrated and ridiculed. A woman is shamed by having to siddel up with such a pathetic creature.

As such there is a big difference in some countries between the dating/casual market and marriage market. The former consists of girls who have fallen to Westernisation. However, in The West, the marriage market primarily consists of girls who end up in marriage by chance, often after being in a relation for many years; or by panic sealing a beta.

Of non-Western countries there are the trashy ones (Latin, Philippines, parts of Africa) that are highly sessed and the more conservative (like Vietnam, Morocco). In the highly sessed you may be able to generate casual interest from a portion of women; while you will be able to generate marriage interest from a large number of women. Women in those countries often want to get married young due to insecurity, but the country is highly polluted by low trust-relationship based on a transnational-sex based society. In the more conservative ones it will be difficult to generate any casual interest, but you will have a lot of marriage interest.

In conservative countries women will likely become enamoured by attributes that Western women are turned off by. Things such as being caring, protective, serious etc. In those countries they often value men who have good morals; while in equally poor and sesed up countries they will be attracted to men with bad morals (bad boys). Latinas, for example, may like qualities like caring, protective, serious; but they likely want them on top of attributes that are converse, like being a bad boy.

In The West we have the worst of both worlds, in that traits like being caring, protective, serious are liable to be seen as demeaning and patriarchal.

I have been meaning to write a thread on my way of generating romantic relationships. I can't do the fake game thing at all. I can only be myself. And when it comes to women I think of what I do as baby-girling. I talk to them in a way and about topics, which positions me as the senior and them as the junior and I reduce them to being more child-like and vulnerable. It's taking the batton from the role their father (should have) played. A simple one is talking to them in the third person, e.g. "What did Natalya do today?", talking about fairly-tales, princes and princesses; playing games; things like lifting them up and telling them "You are so tall. You are the tallest girl in {country}." This works incredibly well with traditional girls. It is exactly what their hearts long for. But Western women usually despise it. They think it's demeaning - they are full women, experienced, professional, adult. They cannot allow you to take a senior position.
Nice insight. I wonder if single motherhood and other symptoms of decline are slowly increasing in Asian communities of the US? I suspect the biggest factor holding Asians together is Tiger Moms.

It seems to me that humans simply weren't designed for lives of relative material comfort and leisure. A human's default "mode" is struggle. We're living in an unprecedented experiment of human success, and excess. Marriage and having children are now a "lifestyle choice" in rich countries. This has really only been the case in what? The last 50 years or so? For the vast amount of human history, getting married and having children was an essential survival tactic as much as anything. And even when it wasn't absolutely necessary, there was still a fairly strong social and cultural pressure to get married and have children (post World War 2 America). Most women didn't have the luxury of living alone in luxury lofts and spending their weekends flirting in in their LBD at nightclubs and wine bars. And for that matter, most men didn't have the time and resources to tend to a home, cook their own food, and support a career/business/farm, whatever. We have more choice to wake up and do whatever we want with our lives, but it turns out when left to their own devices, most people flounder and simply collapse under their own impulsiveness (myself, for most of my blue pill adult life). Most people need some sort of survival impulse to give them purpose and direction. When men are providing and overcoming, women are turned on. Soys and even high betas can't get women off anymore because they aren't hitting their provider/survival instinct, they are just an equal or even lesser social and genetic class of office drone, rather than a genetic compliment and superior to a female (strength, resilience, logical minds, etc.). Since elite males are obviously rare, bad boys fill in the gaps with their emotional roller coasters and outward displays of physical and social assertiveness. The black American community is a perfect example of this. A tiny number elite, successful, intelligent males, with a vast pool of broken, emotionally volatile bad boys, mostly looking for a short term "come-up", to temporally inflate their SMV and impregnate an entitled and bored black female gene pool numbed by welfare and social programs.

I don't see how you'd "fix" the culture in the West at this point. I am not comfortable with any sort of government censorship and edicts for such (like Islam would prefer). It would have to come from an organic resurgence of church and religion as an influence in people's lives (or a massive, collective red-pilling), and the only way for that to happen is likely a massive, sustained, economic downturn, and/or massive global conflict. Women will quickly abandon their novelty bad-boys when their do-nothing office jobs no longer exist, they can't lease SUVs way out of their budget, and obtain endless credit to sustain their own shopping habits. The only hope I see, is the likely collapse of "mainstream" media in the coming decade, at least traditional broadcast and print, but the SJWs still have big tech, which doesn't appear to be going anywhere.
 
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Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
@sanbruno - I think it's true that most people aren't built for excess. It has never happened before to any considerable extent, and thus those who make bad decisions in those circumstances have not been pruned.

I think there are about 10% of people who always act conservatively, that is they will be careful, even if they are in considerable surplus. Give the average person a surplus and they will consume it until they are on their knees. There are a lot of people who can abstain from bad habits, so long as they don't have the money to entertain them, e.g. cocaine, ladies of ill repute. But give them access and they will destroy their lives in consumption. There are a lot of people who win the lottery and end up ruined after blowing it all.

In the good old days middle class families often had servants of various descriptions. That is now completely gone as increasingly only the Bezos class have servants and employees. In terms of servants, it was a case of the middle- employing the working-class, i.e. ~90 IQ people living under the direction of ~110 IQ people. I think that makes a big difference. Put a bunch of 85-90 IQ people together with no moral leadership and you get Latin America. Lower IQ people make poorer life choices, but make better ones when under instruction and influence of higher IQ people. High IQ people have to act as their guardians if they are to have a life anything like middle-class. But the modern left likely thinks the middle class getting servants again would be horrible. It's the probably the best solution.

Asian single mothers in The US have increased by about 1/3 over the last 20 years. I suspect the same is the case in their homelands. You can see various type of thots, mentalheads etc. in their countries.

I can't see any turn around for the whole welfare - cultural degeneracy mixer in the near-future. Anyone who speaks any truth, no matter how quantifiable, is savaged. It's baked into the mainstream that there are essentially no differences between people, other than the inherit terrible nature of men and whites. Even though virtually nobody behaves as if that is the case in the private life and know that is not true.

Who knows how things will go. With the Brave New World rearing it's head it becomes difficult to say. But I suspect it would require a dictatorship to reinstall order and stability. Though I suspect such damage to be done in the era of globalism that it would take centuries to recover, if at all.
 
In the good old days middle class families often had servants of various descriptions.
Jonathan Haidt sort of touched on this his book, The Righteous Mind. He observed different patterns of values and behavior between the working/servant class and middle/upper classes in places like Latin America and India, and how the perceived classism or exploitation from a Western viewpoint wasn't exactly so. I think what you allude to with servants, in the US would really be a large return of lower and middle class blue collar jobs, and yes, unions (whatever your thoughts are on them). Lowish skilled jobs often gave impulsive, dumb, or just down on their luck people a structure and purpose in their lives. Unions often helped them make informed decisions about health care/retirements/finances etc. That doesn't mean we need to throw out automation in favor of packed factory floors of cheap human labor, but a dedication to national self sufficiency, and ensure we have viable production and transport infrastructure for most everything we need. While high value trades like plumbers, electricians, HVAC, etc. won't be for everyone, the vast majority of Americans are still smart enough to be trained to reliably operate machinery and such. That also means changing a school system that tries to turn everyone into an academic or white collar STEM/FIRE economy professional, into something much more reactive and hands on with the needs of industry and changing technologies. You will pay more for consumer goods and even food, but your money will be largely staying in the "real" economy, rather than globalist corporations and Wall Street voodoo economics.
 
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Nice insight. I wonder if single motherhood and other symptoms of decline are slowly increasing in Asian communities of the US? I suspect the biggest factor holding Asians together is Tiger Moms.

It seems to me that humans simply weren't designed for lives of relative material comfort and leisure. A human's default "mode" is struggle. We're living in an unprecedented experiment of human success, and excess. Marriage and having children are now a "lifestyle choice" in rich countries. This has really only been the case in what? The last 50 years or so? For the vast amount of human history, getting married and having children was an essential survival tactic as much as anything. And even when it wasn't absolutely necessary, there was still a fairly strong social and cultural pressure to get married and have children (post World War 2 America). Most women didn't have the luxury of living alone in luxury lofts and spending their weekends flirting in in their LBD at nightclubs and wine bars. And for that matter, most men didn't have the time and resources to tend to a home, cook their own food, and support a career/business/farm, whatever. We have more choice to wake up and do whatever we want with our lives, but it turns out when left to their own devices, most people flounder and simply collapse under their own impulsiveness (myself, for most of my blue pill adult life). Most people need some sort of survival impulse to give them purpose and direction. When men are providing and overcoming, women are turned on. Soys and even high betas can't get women off anymore because they aren't hitting their provider/survival instinct, they are just an equal or even lesser social and genetic class of office drone, rather than a genetic compliment and superior to a female (strength, resilience, logical minds, etc.). Since elite males are obviously rare, bad boys fill in the gaps with their emotional roller coasters and outward displays of physical and social assertiveness. The black American community is a perfect example of this. A tiny number elite, successful, intelligent males, with a vast pool of broken, emotionally volatile bad boys, mostly looking for a short term "come-up", to temporally inflate their SMV and impregnate an entitled and bored black female gene pool numbed by welfare and social programs.

I don't see how you'd "fix" the culture in the West at this point. I am not comfortable with any sort of government censorship and edicts for such (like Islam would prefer). It would have to come from an organic resurgence of church and religion as an influence in people's lives (or a massive, collective red-pilling), and the only way for that to happen is likely a massive, sustained, economic downturn, and/or massive global conflict. Women will quickly abandon their novelty bad-boys when their do-nothing office jobs no longer exist, they can't lease SUVs way out of their budget, and obtain endless credit to sustain their own shopping habits. The only hope I see, is the likely collapse of "mainstream" media in the coming decade, at least traditional broadcast and print, but the SJWs still have big tech, which doesn't appear to be going anywhere.
People would start having kids again if the taxes and deductions would not eat away all the salary. For that to happen, women (being the major beneficiary of the social state) need to give up on all the "free" goodies, and actually be "strong and independent". The only solution is to let the current system run its course, and to be prepared for the collapse of the currency. About 24% of all USD in circulation were created in 2020. Just let that sink in for a minute.
 

Zeknichov

Sparrow
" I met all these women either through online dating or going out to the bar."

1). Online dating: Despite what you read in the media about technology changing the world, this much still holds true: Most of the women who do online dating have personalities (or other qualities) so awful that no man could deal with them in the real world.

People still meet in school when they're young and pair off. I see this firsthand with my nephews now. People also still meet at work (most HR departments are oblivious to what goes on). For the most part, the women dating online are the ones who either never got asked out...or turned down all the good guys...or something else of the sort.

When you get older, the online crowd expands to also feature angry divorced women. Do I really need to explain this any further?

One final thing. OKCupid, Tinder, Bumble, and other dating sites and "apps" (gag) provide a good source of advertising revenue to media outlets. So you can bet the media is going to write positively about how "influential" and "game-changing" they are.

Don't believe it. Whenever you read a "technology is changing humans" story, follow the money and look for company who is indirectly paying the writer's salary with advertising money.

2). Going out to the bar: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

The end.

I mean, I don't disagree with your assessment. Church, work and activities I'm interested in were already tapped out so I didn't have many options.

I just thought I'd follow up here after seeing this reply because you're actually wrong about the bars. I met much higher quality women from the bars than online dating, ironically and unexpectedly. The somewhat decent women were all out for some group event where they normally wouldn't be out at a bar if it weren't for the event. Basically, bars at least provided a potential opportunity to catch a normal woman outside of her natural habitat of reading with her cat at home. Online dating doesn't provide that potential opportunity because these women just don't sign up for it.
 
I have found dating in the United States to be a demoralizing pursuit. I am not posting here to complain, but simply to gauge the accuracy of my observations/conclusions.

There are a few avenues an American man can take to meet women....

-Online dating
-"Going out" and "gaming"

I don't buy the whole meeting women at church. At the church I have attended the average age of women there is 50+.

That's besides the point....

The point is I have found American women to be extremely shallow, narcissistic, competitive, and judgmental. I say this as a fit, educated, and somewhat young (mid-twenties) man.

I am by no means perfect. However, I am sober enough in my thought to see that many women who would make below average mothers/mates have an inflated sense of self.

Again, I try to gauge the accuracy of my conclusions. I have spoken to other male friends and family members who have participated in modern dating.

Ghosting seems to be a very common theme. I have also had friends who have separated from long-term girlfriends only to see these women hop back on the hookup apps just weeks/months later.

When I step back and analyze this all from a macro perspective: In a post corona....mask wearing, social justice world the trend of dating will continue to move towards online (where the average man is steeply disadvantaged).

Through my twenties living in the United States the dating market has deteriorated more and more each year. I am open to reality checks......but this is the way I see it. Is anyone else experiencing this?
I know it's an old thread and you probably have a good amount of answers by now but figure I will offer my own perspective.

Yes, your perceptions are pretty accurate and not just a suspicion when it comes to American Dating.

To begin with, even foreigners, most girls who are foreigners even from the worst Feminist countries in Europe admit that things are not very straightforward and are extremely complicated in the USA when it comes to dating, along with a lack of standards and no understanding of expectations and strange entitlement ideas in the dating realm.

This is because dating in America is very mechanical and transactional. Americans are also a rootless, uncultured and unsophisticated people. The culture of America, just like Canada and other countries is one based on Exploitation as a means of survival and having an existence, so there is no people of common heritage or values to fall back on. This makes even more awkward social interactions and superficial behavior in people.

The large majority of people in America, especially the girls, do not have a sense of novelty and do not like anything unique or unfamiliar.

If something is not in line with a trend, a movie or other popular item or attribute of the times, they will not even be remotely curious about it.

Expectations are usually very robotic, most dates in America the Man expects to sleep with the girl by the third date, and the girls are always thinking that if a Man pays for her restaurant bill that she will owe him something.

Dating in Europe even with its drawbacks with the women is completely different and much more unfolded. There can be a chance someone might sleep with someone in 4 months, vs 4 weeks or maybe in 4 hours, but it's done on a more natural level of getting to know someone and see where things go, when such things do happen, rather than demanding expectations.

Also, in Europe, going out for long dinners even with family members or friends of your date can be a lot more common, and you can even expect dinners / dates that absolutely last 4 hours and even going to several places.

In America, almost all women are coming off from a previous date with another guy before "your date" that same evening, and are off to another date or something she doesn't want you to know about as soon as she gets off of her date with you. So dating is really pointless and useless anymore.

It has been said that the only people in America who really still "date" are Christians and Boomers. Everyone else is only hooking up.

So between too many rules and mixed expectations and mind games, dating is absolutely absurd at this point in America.

Women are supposed to be the ones who approach the Men first-hand, however...
 

Lian

Pigeon
Gold Member
Good thread.

Though 40 is around the corner, I refuse to marry a girl who isn’t a virgin. It was a soft consideration beginning from ten years ago when I was already a seasoned "player" obsessively pursuing superficial intimacy with girls, in the ensuing years due to even more experience and wisdom, especially with "near" virgins, it has become a hard and fast rule. If I have to move across the world (already done/doing that anyway), if I have to settle on X Y or Z, if I have to go to the middle of nowhere and court and "buy" a bride from a father (if this even exists in an actionable way), if she's unattractive or undesirable in some other terrible way, etc... would all and more be considerations before marrying a girl who isn't a virgin. Or of course just never getting married and living a life of celibacy. None of this is ideal to me, but, for better or worse, the virgin requirement is here to stay.

Like BDL, I also have extensive experience with China. If you’re motivated enough and have a bit of a talent for languages (not everyone does), you can get reasonably fluent in a few years, and it's certainly an option with its own pros and cons. Some of the best, most feminine girls I’ve come across can be found in Asia, especially Taiwan. The concept of a “leftover woman,” a girl who past around 25 is basically undateable except for the lowest SMV men, is actually a thing. Large age gaps are not a big deal.

Having said that, I left Asia mostly because I could no longer see myself casually dating if not for long term and marriage, didn't see myself getting married if not for kids, and I didn’t see myself having mixed-race kids. Also as some like STG pointed out, I would personally get out of China and the Chinese world while the getting is good. Even Taiwan, which for feminine and attractive Asian girls is probably the best in the world, would not be a place I’d want to put down long-term roots. Things might seem OK now but can deteriorate rapidly. Read up on the Fall of Singapore, the horrors at Changi prison, etc. Even if not, unlike say in Europe if you're Caucasian, you will always, always be an obvious foreigner there, which I have never not seen take its toll on expats in Asia, even the relative few who stay more than a decade.

I’ve dabbled with churches but I either didn’t feel completely right, or felt I was doing it for the wrong reason, namely to find a good girl. I believe God will put the right girl in my life if or when the time is right, or not. I’m trying to find God these days, for years really. I think if I’m looking for a chick for marriage without getting right with God, I’m doing it backwards. I struggle with faith tremendously, one day the truth of God is “obvious" and Christianity makes sense, other days I wallow in negativity and it’s all "BS" and nihilism and despair… if anyone especially anyone who has gone through this and emerged through the fog has any recommendations or books please post.
I don't see how you'd "fix" the culture in the West at this point. I am not comfortable with any sort of government censorship and edicts for such (like Islam would prefer). It would have to come from an organic resurgence of church and religion as an influence in people's lives (or a massive, collective red-pilling), and the only way for that to happen is likely a massive, sustained, economic downturn, and/or massive global conflict. Women will quickly abandon their novelty bad-boys when their do-nothing office jobs no longer exist, they can't lease SUVs way out of their budget, and obtain endless credit to sustain their own shopping habits. The only hope I see, is the likely collapse of "mainstream" media in the coming decade, at least traditional broadcast and print, but the SJWs still have big tech, which doesn't appear to be going anywhere.
I agree on the economic downturn and global conflict, though that's something we can do nothing about. In terms of actionable items, I think men not requiring virgins for marrying, in other words not having the basic standard men had for ages, and men funding their own demise through (excessive) taxation, are two of the biggest problems. I think if all men, especially high value men, ceased pursuing casual encounters with broken bicycles (like I did so often for so many years), only dated with marriage in mind, and demanded a virgin for marriage plus weren’t ashamed to make such views known within their circles, and didn't pay tax to fund the swamp that promotes and pays for everything and everyone who seeks to destroy us, a lot would fix itself. On the tax issue, obviously living in the USA makes this near impossible - I no longer do.
 
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GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Good thread.

Though 40 is around the corner, I refuse to marry a girl who isn’t a virgin. It was a soft consideration beginning from ten years ago when I was already a seasoned "player" obsessively pursuing superficial intimacy with girls, in the ensuing years due to even more experience and wisdom, especially with "near" virgins, it has become a hard and fast rule. If I have to move across the world (already done/doing that anyway), if I have to settle on X Y or Z, if I have to go to the middle of nowhere and court and "buy" a bride from a father (if this even exists in an actionable way), if she's unattractive or undesirable in some other terrible way, etc... would all and more be considerations before marrying a girl who isn't a virgin. Or of course just never getting married and living a life of celibacy. None of this is ideal to me, but, for better or worse, the virgin requirement is here to stay.

Like BDL, I also have extensive experience with China. If you’re motivated enough and have a bit of a talent for languages (not everyone does), you can get reasonably fluent in a few years, and it's certainly an option with its own pros and cons. Some of the best, most feminine girls I’ve come across can be found in Asia, especially Taiwan. The concept of a “leftover woman,” a girl who past around 25 is basically undateable except for the lowest SMV men, is actually a thing. Large age gaps are not a big deal.

Having said that, I left Asia mostly because I could no longer see myself casually dating if not for long term and marriage, didn't see myself getting married if not for kids, and I didn’t see myself having mixed-race kids. Also as some like STG pointed out, I would personally get out of China and the Chinese world while the getting is good. Even Taiwan, which for feminine and attractive Asian girls is probably the best in the world, would not be a place I’d want to put down long-term roots. Things might seem OK now but can deteriorate rapidly. Read up on the Fall of Singapore, the horrors at Changi prison, etc. Even if not, unlike say in Europe if you're Caucasian, you will always, always be an obvious foreigner there, which I have never not seen take its toll on expats in Asia, even the relative few who stay more than a decade.

I’ve dabbled with churches but I either didn’t feel completely right, or felt I was doing it for the wrong reason, namely to find a good girl. I believe God will put the right girl in my life if or when the time is right, or not. I’m trying to find God these days, for years really. I think if I’m looking for a chick for marriage without getting right with God, I’m doing it backwards. I struggle with faith tremendously, one day the truth of God is “obvious" and Christianity makes sense, other days I wallow in negativity and it’s all "BS" and nihilism and despair… if anyone especially anyone who has gone through this and emerged through the fog has any recommendations or books please post.

I agree on the economic downturn and global conflict, though that's something we can do nothing about. In terms of actionable items, I think men not requiring virgins for marrying, in other words not having the basic standard men had for ages, and men funding their own demise through (excessive) taxation, are two of the biggest problems. I think if all men, especially high value men, ceased pursuing casual encounters with broken bicycles (like I did so often for so many years), only dated with marriage in mind, and demanded a virgin for marriage plus weren’t ashamed to make such views known within their circles, and didn't pay tax to fund the swamp that promotes and pays for everything and everyone who seeks to destroy us, a lot would fix itself. On the tax issue, obviously living in the USA makes this near impossible - I no longer do.
Aren't you being way too picky refusing to marry someone who isn't a virgin? You aren't 20 and you aren't a virgin yourself. I think you need to be a little more realistic. Anyone could be a non-virgin and make a great wife. Not being a virgin is not the unpardonable sin. Focus on being a great husband. God may not want you to marry a non-virgin either. Grace will come in very handy if you get married.
 

Lian

Pigeon
Gold Member
Aren't you being way too picky refusing to marry someone who isn't a virgin? You aren't 20 and you aren't a virgin yourself. I think you need to be a little more realistic. Anyone could be a non-virgin and make a great wife. Not being a virgin is not the unpardonable sin. Focus on being a great husband. God may not want you to marry a non-virgin either. Grace will come in very handy if you get married.
Virginity is just one quality, another guy might be picky or have a hard line for some other quality. I'd say I'm a higher than average SMV guy and I don't think it's too far fetched, just a year ago while flying I met a (European) 18 year old virgin about to start college who I found very attractive and for the most part red flag free, with whom I was in good contact for a while, I even flew to go visit her and spent a few days together meeting for coffees during the day and then dinners/later, though obviously it didn't work out for a few reasons. She thought I was late 20s, though I don't think it mattered much as we already had some connection. I also had a lot going on in my life at the time causing me considerable stress and maybe a bit of desperation/need, I wasn't "ready" anyway, I almost surely gave off that vibe. Plus serious geographic distance that was going to (and did) decrease a lot, but not as it turned out until very recently. Basically, it was not in the cards, but it wasn't far off either.

Regardless, it's not about sin for me here, and I get that I'm not one either. I just know myself, and I don't think I could accept a girl as "mine," through sickness and health, etc., once those initial feelings wore off. So many painful lines of thought, or I'd have to bury the thought all the time. It would bother me way too much, even if I bury those feelings deep down, they will come to the surface when the going gets tough. I get this is a controversial topic, especially as this has not been a hard and fast requirement for many men for so long, so most men are with girls who aren't.

Never say never has its place, because who knows... but, basically, I'm saying never.
 
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William Faulkner

Pigeon
Orthodox
Has anyone here ever had any experience with women from Bhutan? Bhutan supposedly has an incredible quality of life. I'm just curious what kind of women such an ideal place has -
 

Mikeyd03

Woodpecker
@William Faulkner I actually dated a woman from bhutan. She was very mild mannered, however had fallen for feminist propaganda after one year of university in the USA.

that being said she was affectionate and pretty intelligent. A large upgrade from the demeanor of most American women.

To put my finger on it....humility. Most American women lack this trait entirely.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
@William Faulkner I actually dated a woman from bhutan. She was very mild mannered, however had fallen for feminist propaganda after one year of university in the USA.

that being said she was affectionate and pretty intelligent. A large upgrade from the demeanor of most American women.

To put my finger on it....humility. Most American women lack this trait entirely.
Yup, a shred of it doesn't come in until at least age 35. As opposed to the culturally enforced or normalized "leftover woman" that is a known concept at age 25 in other sane places, like the East, as Lian mentions above.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Virginity is just one quality, another guy might be picky or have a hard line for some other quality. I'd say I'm a higher than average SMV guy and I don't think it's too far fetched, just a year ago while flying I met a (European) 18 year old virgin about to start college who I found very attractive and for the most part red flag free, with whom I was in good contact for a while, I even flew to go visit her and spent a few days together meeting for coffees during the day and then dinners/later, though obviously it didn't work out for a few reasons. She thought I was late 20s, though I don't think it mattered much as we already had some connection. I also had a lot going on in my life at the time causing me considerable stress and maybe a bit of desperation/need, I wasn't "ready" anyway, I almost surely gave off that vibe. Plus serious geographic distance that was going to (and did) decrease a lot, but not as it turned out until very recently. Basically, it was not in the cards, but it wasn't far off either.

Regardless, it's not about sin for me here, and I get that I'm not one either. I just know myself, and I don't think I could accept a girl as "mine," through sickness and health, etc., once those initial feelings wore off. So many painful lines of thought, or I'd have to bury the thought all the time. It would bother me way too much, even if I bury those feelings deep down, they will come to the surface when the going gets tough. I get this is a controversial topic, especially as this has not been a hard and fast requirement for many men for so long, so most men are with girls who aren't.

Never say never has its place, because who knows... but, basically, I'm saying never.
I appreciate you going deeper into your thoughts.

I don't understand your comment about not being able to accept a girl as "mine".

My wife is definetely my baby, my lover, my companion, my partner, all of those things and it is so good to have that.

Maybe certain feelings wear off but I can tell you I feel stronger feelings for my wife now after being married for six years this May. That happens with time and devotion. Having someone as "yours" is something I think we all want don't we?
 
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