My view on dating in the USA.....is this accurate?

I agree with some of your points- If you've read Aaron Clarey's "book of numbers"- indeed, the odds are very bad in the US. If your goal is to be happily married, it's about 4 in 1,000. And the other 996 stand to lose around $260k in the procurement, maintenance, and disposal of the marriage relationship. If you had put that into an Index fund as you accumulate the $260k- You stand to gain $7+ million at retirement. That's the cost of pursuing marriage in the USA.

The book is extremely rigorous in its empiricism, data, and solid economic modeling. I'd use it as a definitive authority on the matter.

I disagree with a couple of points though-

"Most good women will be held onto for dear life by men": Sure. Dating market is market for lemons. However, no matter how hard these "good women's" husbands hold onto them, they are going to cheat with the right guy.
There is no stopping in the West for this kind of behavior. In the end, a "good woman" really is just a woman who hadn't been caught. That's all. I've seen enough to tell you there's no such "good woman".

By the way, about 9 outta 10 women I met across all ages on dating sites are in an LTR of some sort. They are always spinning plates and monkey branching, even the not-so-attractive ones. The reality is, the simps far outnumber the low-value women, so they have no fear of repercussions acting in such a way.

"Especially past 30. In America, age gaps of more than 3 years are tough to reconcile. Past age 40, you really have no viable options at all in America.":

I strongly disagree with this. I married someone 11yr my junior. Every girl I dated before her is around the same range. And now, at the age of 41, I am going out with 24-30yr olds. I don't even look at a woman's profile unless she's under 30. And it isn't because I'm somehow better than anybody else, or that I'm trying to brag, at all. If you look around at folks like Rich Cooper or his friends- old dudes have a real edge when it comes to getting young girls, if the old dude has put in the work. I am in good shape, have nice style, live in a trendy place with a view, ride cool motorcycles, have a great network/preselection, and income. Get a few professional photographers and take some solid profile pics. Travel wide, speak another language, have fun hobbies... There is absolutely an advantage for men in their late 30s and 40s to pick up young girls. Men age very well, but again- you gotta put in the work.


The bottom line is, the state of a dating market depends entirely on your goal. If you wanna get married and have kids- Move out of the English-speaking Western world. Do not get married, especially in the US. The vast majority of Western men today do not stand a chance and a non-trivial number of men kill themselves as a result. However, if your goal is to spin plates, then it's fine, in fact, Western women's vapid, materialistic, and ADHD nature, plus social media and handheld devices have made it much easier to spin them.

On the whole, if your goal is to have genuine experiences with women of higher quality, without having have to compete with 1,000 other men (and instead, only 10 other men), on a higher statistical probability.... then you have to move out to SE Asia, or Eastern Europe. And even these places have their issues (you got to speak the language somewhat), and you definitely still have to put in the work.
I think spinning plates into old age is a lifestyle compromise, ego crutch, and huge loss to the gene pool (if you’re really a successful man). To each their own and it’s not a bad life if that’s your only and best option.

But honestly the men who do that are part of the problem. They are providing temptation to young women. The older man with good game who put in the work makes it easy, carefree, and fun for young women to upgrade their life without doing the work themselves.

The trade off is supposed to be her youth, beauty, child bearing, rearing, caring, cleaning abilities, etc. Now the young girls don’t even have to be polite, punctual, or even go on an actual date. We are enabling the deterioration of the woman-to-man dynamic.

It’s not the natural guys who pretend to be in a James Bond movie in their 40s and beyond. It’s the incel guys who couldn’t get a date in high school and spent their early adulthood grinding it out.

Most natural guys I know got over being promiscuous and settled down in their early 30s to 40s. They did not pedestalize women and were under no illusion as to their own dropping SMV. They had their fun and wanted stability and a family.

Mostly though they just complained about the purposelessness of continuing the college party decade after decade. They matured.

Pretty much all of them settled for 7s, too. They couldn’t control the 8s they dated. It was too much trouble to even get them. let alone keep them.

There are good 8s out their but probably 1 in 10,000 or more. I qualify for things like not from a broken home, diets and exercises, has actual recreational hobbies, wants to travel 6 months or more per year, etc. My options are near zero.

As a digital nomad I find myself in a real pickle. I bounce around on tourist visas and follow the weather. I’m comfortable and fulfilled being a budget traveler for the rest of my life. However, that lifestyle does not appeal to 7s and above. They want luxury and expect me to provide it. If I won’t, you (ie other men) will.

Even the Asian women had trouble traveling around their own country. Mot couldn’t do it. A few were able to do about two months.

Japanese and SEA women did not annoy me. EE and Latin women had a nasty side to their personality that came out daily. There is no way to be around the latter society’s females 24/7 while traveling. They’ve been raised to be assholes and take it out on men.

This is why you think spinning plates is good. You can be around assholes for tacos and fun. Then be done with them and enjoy your life. Online dating gives you abundance with little effort besides what you have already put in.

You’re a beta bux simp in sheep’s clothing. No hate. I’m hoping to get their myself. I can’t wait to have a million dollars to DHV to women half my age.

Life will finally be worth living when I gain marginally more interest from 20 year old spoiled brats. Mmm. I’m dead serious. That’s all I’ve been left with.

I do wish I learned Japanese and went their at 20 to be a loser English teacher. Or came up with a more lucrative money situation. My government pension is enough to live in the developing world. But it doesn’t impress locals anymore. Too many guys like you taking vacations and spending all their time on the few skinny women.

The world ha fattened up good and proper. 80% of the world is undatable on obesity alone.

I wish I was one of those people who was motivated by money. I turned down a billionaire lifestyle to travel around the USA in a van during my 20s. Then live in 50 countries in my 30s.

Wearing fancy tailored clothes and flying private wasn’t what I wanted. I wouldn’t mind it now but the opportunity will require significantly more work. Not sure I want to put myself out there like Roosh did.

Most people do not have a 140 or even 120 IQ. Without the protection of an industry career and laurels I’m not sure it’s worth the hassle. There are other ways to get money, stay under the radar, and have fun.

I even think I figured out the family and life partner situation, too. If I go back to Asia I’ll just implement my backup plan and golden parachute.
 
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Won't date an American woman. Ever. They're probably the worst women of the anglosphere. Maybe there are some good girls in mormon, amish or quaker communities or so, but they also tend to be easily corrupted by woke stuff.
 

stugatz

Pelican
It's relatively easy to do, I found my wife there.
At first I discouraged this kind of stuff, saying "they only like you because you have status as a foreigner". I had a foreign friend tell me one time, though, to not feel bad about it - it carries the same kind of weight as you being from a wealthy family or owning an expensive car.

That blue passport still is seen as something special to a lot of people, even if we all feel bummed about the USA's current status. (It's probably much the same way if you're from a Western European country.) Still be on the lookout for people who don't really love you, but don't hesitate to use your advantages.
 

Aubert

Chicken
@stugatz
I see where you are coming from. But do American women really love you? Or are just there for their benefit. Just because they can speak English and are from the same country doesn't mean much nowadays. I had a friend who marry his high school "sweetheart" and not some foreign "gold digger" as many naysayers say.

What was the outcome?After only five years, he is now divorce having to pay both alimony and child support. While his sweetheart is at yoga class and already found another guy.
 

stugatz

Pelican
@stugatz
I see where you are coming from. But do American women really love you? Or are just there for their benefit. Just because they can speak English and are from the same country doesn't mean much nowadays. I had a friend who marry his high school "sweetheart" and not some foreign "gold digger" as many naysayers say.

What was the outcome?After only five years, he is now divorce having to pay both alimony and child support. While his sweetheart is at yoga class and already found another guy.
Oh, I'm not discouraging marrying foreign women - in fact, it's probably a better bet. For years, though, I've always been wary of it since they can turn on you just as fast as any American woman.

I would probably be inclined to just stay abroad forever if I ended up marrying one, I wouldn't want to move her here and have her get indoctrinated with a bunch of feminist hogwash.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
At first I discouraged this kind of stuff, saying "they only like you because you have status as a foreigner". I had a foreign friend tell me one time, though, to not feel bad about it - it carries the same kind of weight as you being from a wealthy family or owning an expensive car.

That blue passport still is seen as something special to a lot of people, even if we all feel bummed about the USA's current status. (It's probably much the same way if you're from a Western European country.) Still be on the lookout for people who don't really love you, but don't hesitate to use your advantages.
They may very well like you because you are a foreigner, but treat them like a man should treat a woman and you have a wife for life.
 
Oh, I'm not discouraging marrying foreign women - in fact, it's probably a better bet. For years, though, I've always been wary of it since they can turn on you just as fast as any American woman.

I would probably be inclined to just stay abroad forever if I ended up marrying one, I wouldn't want to move her here and have her get indoctrinated with a bunch of feminist hogwash.
Sure they can turn on you, you can never be 100%. But if you screen pretty hard, you elimate many red flags and with a bigger pool of prospects you can screen harder.

If you find your 0-1 notch count, tattoo-free, family oriented 20-29year old asian woman, your odds are much better than if you settle for the ex-cc tattooed, 29-39 year old western woman who you share the same messed up cultural background with.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
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I have found dating in the United States to be a demoralizing pursuit. I am not posting here to complain, but simply to gauge the accuracy of my observations/conclusions.

There are a few avenues an American man can take to meet women....

-Online dating
-"Going out" and "gaming"

The point is I have found American women to be extremely shallow, narcissistic, competitive, and judgmental. I say this as a fit, educated, and somewhat young (mid-twenties) man.

I am by no means perfect. However, I am sober enough in my thought to see that many women who would make below average mothers/mates have an inflated sense of self.

Again, I try to gauge the accuracy of my conclusions. I have spoken to other male friends and family members who have participated in modern dating.

Ghosting seems to be a very common theme. I have also had friends who have separated from long-term girlfriends only to see these women hop back on the hookup apps just weeks/months later.

When I step back and analyze this all from a macro perspective: In a post corona....mask wearing, social justice world the trend of dating will continue to move towards online (where the average man is steeply disadvantaged).

Through my twenties living in the United States the dating market has deteriorated more and more each year. I am open to reality checks......but this is the way I see it. Is anyone else experiencing this?
@Mikeyd03

Some thoughts -

Other venues exist:
- church (in view of your statement, it depends on the church you go to)
- the gym
- community/volunteer service
- farmer's markets
- social groups (i.e. like meetup if you can stomach the propaganda these mainstream organizations throw at you)

Ghosting is a recurring phenomenon. In general, most have no incentive nor accountability nowadays; that is simply something one needs to adapt to.

Post-corona online dating dynamics may change in my opinion.

Also, the social environment varies state to state, city to city, some more locked down than others.
 

TrifeLife

Woodpecker
My only advice to guys trying to find a girl that is wife material is to signal your beliefs publicly and hope that one makes herself known to you. I was extremely lucky to pull a needle out of the haystack that is NYC when I was living there. In 2016 during the primary I was open about my supporting Trump in my workplace (not corporate setting). I did this mostly to trigger the woke types I was surrounded by, but tempered it by treating everyone in a friendly and generally good natured manner. In doing so I made myself a target for ridicule from many, but also positioned myself in stark contrast to soy boys and male feminists. The girl i'm still with told me a short time after we had started dating that this was what originally caught her attention. She wanted someone who acted like a man, because she wanted to act like a woman.

Showing your cards in the workplace may not be an option for some because it could put your job at risk. However, hiding your beliefs so as not to preclude potential relations with women will only lead to you wasting your time. Just know that there are girls out there that don't buy into the globohomo propoganda, even if they are few and far between.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
My only advice to guys trying to find a girl that is wife material is to signal your beliefs publicly and hope that one makes herself known to you. I was extremely lucky to pull a needle out of the haystack that is NYC when I was living there. In 2016 during the primary I was open about my supporting Trump in my workplace (not corporate setting). I did this mostly to trigger the woke types I was surrounded by, but tempered it by treating everyone in a friendly and generally good natured manner. In doing so I made myself a target for ridicule from many, but also positioned myself in stark contrast to soy boys and male feminists. The girl i'm still with told me a short time after we had started dating that this was what originally caught her attention. She wanted someone who acted like a man, because she wanted to act like a woman.

Showing your cards in the workplace may not be an option for some because it could put your job at risk. However, hiding your beliefs so as not to preclude potential relations with women will only lead to you wasting your time. Just know that there are girls out there that don't buy into the globohomo propoganda, even if they are few and far between.
I agree with you, best to say what you believe in. That's what I did. How else is a woman supposed to know who to be serious about?
 

Parmesan

Woodpecker
To be unapologetically yourself is truly the only way to go in life.
To the young men on this forum, please, please listen to this. I'm in my late 30s, and only through years of personal and career failures, lost opportunities with beautiful women, and pointless indulgences and masturbation, have I come to realize I wasted my healthiest years as an agreeable, weak, feminized chump. I never had the balls to risk failure, seize life by the horns and work for what I wanted, and believe me, it's a HARD fucking pill to swallow at this age.

I kind of understand why many blue pillers adopt the militant, cancel culture/antifa mentality, as admitting your life was a lie is arguably more depressing and degrading than being a martyr.
 
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SingularityOne

Robin
Orthodox
To the young men on this forum, please, please listen to this. I'm in my late 30s, and only through years of personal and career failures, lost opportunities with beautiful women, and pointless indulgences and masturbation, have I come to realize I wasted my healthiest years as an agreeable, weak, feminized chump. I never had the balls to risk failure, seize life by the horns and work for what I wanted, and believe me, it's a HARD fucking pill to swallow at this age.

I kind of understand why many blue pillers adopt the militant, cancel culture/antifa mentality, as admitting your life was a lie is arguably more depressing and degrading than being a martyr.
Would you say 26 is too late?
 
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