N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during press conf.

RIslander

 
Banned
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

Goldin Boy said:
RIslander said:
TigerMandingo said:
I don't get the outpouring of sympathy for this idiot.

A 21 year old went on a four day vacation and was tortured and murdered by an entire nation for absolutely no reason (I don't buy the banner story).

Who the hell goes on a vacation to a

1) Hostile, totalitarian country;
2) which is still technically at war with their neighbor
3) and also has a history of detaining travelers for petty reasons and straight-up outright fabricated pretenses?

Shit man, I knew N. Korea was a fucked up place when I was ten. Age isn't a factor here.

Vacation?? That's like saying a drunk guy going 100 MPH with no seatbelt in a schoolzone who dies in a crash was just "joyriding". What pray tell are the "touristy" activities in N. Korea? Counting the ribs on starving gulag prisoners? Waiting in the ration line? Your sympathy is overriding your higher faculties on this one.

This situation isn't funny but it was 100% avoidable. He gets no sympathy from me for putting himself in harm's way. I hope the Trump Administration doesn't acknowledge this.

Hey I'm not saying he wasn't foolish. He didn't deserve what he got though. One can still be sympathetic toward a young kid who made a foolish decision. I wouldn't of dared go to NK at any age but remember that those of us on the forum are far more educated and intuitive of the ways of the world than your average westerner.
 

...

Crow
Gold Member
Well...now is the time for Donald Trump to show his true colors, if he's all talk or a cuck.

3D Trump or Tic-Tac-Toe Bunk?

Also, a nice way to lower unemployment via the military welfare state (surge in troops), military industrial complex (contracts), and add some debt. I mean, our ChinaMEX credit card bill is already high...what's a trillion or two more?
 

Jetset

Ostrich
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

Goldin Boy said:
This situation isn't funny but it was 100% avoidable. He gets no sympathy from me for putting himself in harm's way. I hope the Trump Administration doesn't acknowledge this.

Issuing a foreign national a visa to legally enter your country and then straight-up murdering him for no good reason is not usually something that goes unnoticed in international diplomacy, nor should it.

It might have been goofy as hell for him to be there, but that doesn't mean North Korea gets to go "LOL, should've read the newspaper first". It's not like he died in random street violence or a natural disaster. There's good reason to suspect they did this to him.
 

Repo

Hummingbird
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

TigerMandingo said:
Goldin Boy said:
This situation isn't funny

I only disagree with this part of your post. This is the dude in question:

[IMG=400x400]http://i65.tinypic.com/155lbg5.jpg[/IMG]

:laugh:

Yes visiting NK is incredibly dangerous and stupid, but its not like thousands of Westerners don't visit NK every year, the chances of this happening were literally under 0.1%.

Sad that laughter is the reaction that comes to mind when you see a fellow man who has been tortured beg for his life. I can only assume you have either never witnessed true violence and suffering, or you have witnessed so much of it that you have become numb to it.
 

Atlanta Man

Ostrich
Gold Member
It is possible he attempted to take his own life, it is possible he got diarrhea (it can kill you), it is possible he did get botulism, or this could all be the result of torture-whatever it was , the government of North Korea is responsible for it. He was a dumb 21 year old, made a dumb decision, and suffered the ultimate penalty. He deserved better, he should not be dead.
 

Gmac

Peacock
Gold Member
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

TigerMandingo said:
Goldin Boy said:
This situation isn't funny

I only disagree with this part of your post. This is the dude in question:

[IMG=400x400]http://i65.tinypic.com/155lbg5.jpg[/IMG]

:laugh:

Sure dude... I'll bet if the shoe were on the other foot you'd have your head held high and you'd tell those North Korean commie bastards to go straight to hell amirite!

:facepalm:
 

Goldin Boy

Pelican
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

Jetset said:
Issuing a foreign national a visa to legally enter your country and then straight-up murdering him for no good reason is not usually something that goes unnoticed in international diplomacy, nor should it.



I'm 98% positive the poster theft was hyperbolic, if not ficitious. I just re-watched the apology, totally scripted by some DPRK grunt.

So what do you want to US to do? Wage war against North Korea? More sanctions that will only hurt the hurting destitute? All for some foolish kid put himself in harms way? This isn't fucking Archduke Franz Ferdinand or Helen of Troy it's just a regular citizen. Should we attack Korea before or after we bomb the Netherlands for the Natalee Holloway disappearance?

About 2,000 American visit Corea annually, 1999, 99%, of them return safely. This is fucked up but statistically insignificant. The best response is no response.

It might have been goofy as hell for him to be there, but that doesn't mean North Korea gets to go "LOL, should've read the newspaper first". It's not like he died in random street violence or a natural disaster.

I've never seen a man Whiteknight for another man before. I should rep you for making history. Your hamster is doing Mach 3 to absolve him all responsibility for taking the effort to fly to North Korea. When you're in a foreign country you are subject to their rules, not matter how kooky those laws are. You don't like that? Don't go there.

The outpouring sympathy from the rvf for this man, he's not a kid, is just as baffling to me as when BLM rallied for Trayvon Martin: In both situations you have a young man, dumber than a box of rocks, did something really impulsive and put himself in a situation that got his ass killed by someone else.


There's good reason to suspect they did this to him.

9b3.png
 

Tokyo Joe

Woodpecker
Gold Member
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

TigerMandingo said:
I don't get the outpouring of sympathy for this idiot.

^^^ That's because you're a pathetic piece of shit.--

TigerMandingo said:
Vicious said:
And now Warmbier had passed. RIP.
North Korea has killed an American citizen.

Good. Fuck him. I'm about to bust out my tiny violin. If you don't wanna get imprisoned by a hostile foreign government, don't go to said nation. It's really quite simple. Stay the fuck in Cincinnati.
 

Jetset

Ostrich
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

Goldin Boy said:
So what do you want to US to do? Wage war against North Korea? More sanctions that will only hurt the hurting destitute? All for some foolish kid put himself in harms way? This isn't fucking Archduke Franz Ferdinand or Helen of Troy it's just a regular citizen. Should we attack Korea before or after we bomb the Netherlands for the Natalee Holloway disappearance?

In point of fact, the Franco-Mexican War was mainly fought over the harassment of ordinary French nationals on Mexican soil and the Mexican government's refusal to compensate them. Likewise, the Royal Navy's bombardment of Kagoshima was triggered by the brutal murder of an ordinary British national for disrespectfully failing to dismount from his horse in front of a samurai (supposedly, the Englishman's last words were "don't worry, I know how to deal with these people" before he was stabbed repeatedly), and the Japanese government's subsequent refusal to pay compensation and punish the samurai involved. Whether they were acting provocatively or not, there is plenty of precedent to start shelling when it goes too far, because there's some reason to worry that failing to set limits may teach the world that your citizens can be brutalized for fun.

With that said, no, I don't think we should go to war. However, your statement was that the Trump Administration should simply ignore it. These are not the only two choices.

Your hamster is doing Mach 3 to absolve him all responsibility for taking the effort to fly to North Korea. When you're in a foreign country you are subject to their rules, not matter how kooky those laws are. You don't like that? Don't go there.

You're confusing his personal responsibility for his own safety (and there's some room to debate just how irresponsible he was, given that you acknowledge he likely did not actually violate their laws) for the government's responsibility for the nation's safety (which may not be served by letting a suspected unjustified and deliberate torture and murder of a citizen at the hands of a foreign government slide, especially given that whether he broke the law or not, he was not sentenced to death).

Your judgment is clouded because you disagree with his choices and don't want to see him "white knighted". I get it. However, the petty moral hazard of enabling his questionable decision to travel to North Korea is a moot point: he died. This is not relevant to whether or not it's in the best interest of the United States to take punitive measures to make an example of North Korea's conduct.
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
I'm going to be following this story...

I'm going to talk to some doctors I know and ask their opinion on what could have caused the massive brain tissue loss in this case. I don't think blunt force trauma does that. His captors may have experimented on him with bacteriological weapons, nerve agents, psychotropic drugs...we just don't know.

This looks like a message. This was a clear message from Pyongyang: don't push us too far. Just like Kim Jong Un sent a message when he murdered his half-brother with sarin. He actually wants the world to know he's capable of atrocities.

And it wouldn't surprise me to see the US try to cover up the details. Why? If the public knew that this kid was out-and-out murdered, they might demand some response. And the sad truth is that, as long as Kim Jong Un and his pathetic country is hiding behind Beijing's skirts, there is little we can really do. Maybe there are more ways we can put the screws to Pyongyang, but it's not easy when the Chinese protect and coddle him. No matter how bad Pyongyang acts, the Chinese are not going to want the regime deposed.

.
 

Repo

Hummingbird
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

Quintus Curtius said:
I'm going to be following this story...

I'm going to talk to some doctors I know and ask their opinion on what could have caused the massive brain tissue loss in this case. I don't think blunt force trauma does that. His captors may have experimented on him with bacteriological weapons, nerve agents, psychotropic drugs...we just don't know.

This looks like a message. This was a clear message from Pyongyang: don't push us too far. Just like Kim Jong Un sent a message when he murdered his half-brother with sarin. He actually wants the world to know he's capable of atrocities.

And it wouldn't surprise me to see the US try to cover up the details. Why? If the public knew that this kid was out-and-out murdered, they might demand some response. And the sad truth is that, as long as Kim Jong Un and his pathetic country is hiding behind Beijing's skirts, there is little we can really do. Maybe there are more ways we can put the screws to Pyongyang, but it's not easy when the Chinese protect and coddle him. No matter how bad Pyongyang acts, the Chinese are not going to want the regime deposed.

.

The damage could also be from oxygen deprivation, waterboarding can have this effect.
 

Luvianka

Kingfisher
Well, I guess Dennis Rodman is not doing a good job as a replacement of Zbigniew Brzezinski so far. By the way, who said that Dennis Rodman had just saved the World?

dennis-rodman-bad.png
 

fokker

 
Banned
RIP Otto.

If you go to a country like North Korea, you should obey the fucking local laws, and especially keep your hands away from their commie propaganda posters.
 

Canopus

Kingfisher
It's worth noting his roommate on the North Korean trip, an Englishman in his forties, does not believe Warmbier stole anything.

“When we got to Pyongyang, we were the two single guys, so it seemed logical for us to be put in the same room,” Gratton said. “So basically from the time we got to Pyongyang to the time I left him, we were together.”

Warmbier stood out in the group because he was so young, Gratton said. The two bonded that first night over a couple of beers.

“I got to know Otto really, really well,” he said. “He was such a mature lad for his age.”

[...]

Gratton said that in the four days they spent together, Warmbier never said anything about a banner and that he saw zero evidence that Warmbier was planning any such act — quite the opposite. The first Gratton heard of the alleged attempted theft was when it was mentioned in news reports weeks later. Gratton and Warmbier weren’t together 24 hours each day, but they traveled together during the day and hung out each night.

“I’ve got nothing from my experiences with him that would suggest he would do something like that,” he said. “At no stage did I ever think he was anything but a very, very polite kid.”

So:

1. American
2. Single, on a group tour but otherwise traveling alone with no family/spouse, friends, coworkers, etc.
3. Youngest guy in the group
4. Mild-mannered, polite, and compliant

When you're surrounded by a pack of wolves like NK, that's a lot of targets painted on yourself. (The only way it could have been worse was "5. Female").

Another interesting tidbit from Gratton that makes me frown:

Gratton has stayed in contact intermittently with Warmbier’s parents over the past year-and-a-half. He said he was “stunned” nobody from the U.S. government or the tour group ever tried to contact him to ask him if he had any information about what happened.

Baffling, if true. I'm no private eye, but come on, when I think of the first people I'd hit up for answers on what happened...

Anyway: he was very unwise to agree to this trip, but prolonged torture, the loss of his own identity through brain damage, and ultimately being flown back to the U.S. just to die on a hospital bed in front of his parents - yeah, when I think of people whose lives should meet ends that horrible, I don't think of globetrotting kids who succumb to their dumb urges to see dangerous places. Warmbier put his family through hell and put his government in a terrible position by doing this, but he didn't run over pedestrians, shoot up a nightclub, or molest children. What happened to him isn't unpredictable, but it is undeserved.

It's a shame that circumstances likely won't permit any real justice for his death. Given the current geopolitical climate, I don't know what action a crime like this really allows for. His family may have to be content just to have him home to bury. And that's cold comfort, but at least he died (or his body died) surrounded by his family on American soil, not alone in some desolate shithole prison a world away from home.
 

eskimobobseal

Pelican
Gold Member
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

I doubt this kid tried to steal anything. DPRK is famous for detaining people for BS charges. What makes this case any different? Everything that comes out of the North Korean government is a lie.
 

Seadog

Kingfisher
RE: N.Korea: US student cries & admits to being "severe criminal" during...

I'm not sure why, but this particular incident upsets me more than normal. Perhaps because like many others here, I do things which are somewhat more risky than staying at home in nice safe Canada. Hell, even going to the Philippines they have occasional kidnappings and murder of westerners. Though not in NK, I've done foolish things at least on par with stealing a poster (if he even did that), so perhaps it's a "there but for the grace of god goes me" moment....

TigerMandingo said:
I don't get the outpouring of sympathy for this idiot.

I don't understand the borderline glee a couple people are displaying here at this kid's vegitiblication and subsequent death. People laughing at torture induced Alzheimers at the ripe old age of 22.

A friend of a friend was mowed down by a drunk driver jogging late at night a few years back in Canada. Guess that teaches her for being out late at night? Obviously that's when the majority of drunk drivers will be out. Everyone knows that. Clearly her own fault/no sympathy/guess she learned a harsh but deserved lesson?

While these things happen, the vast majority of people come back from NK safe. Gambling with your life, but likely like a 10,000:1 shot. Do you also laugh at some poor schmuck who catches AIDS fucking a random girl? Or does your sympathy actually extend to the realm of activities that you actually partake in that have high, but also highly unlikely stakes?
 
Top