Need help examining behavior of Russian/Ukrainian women and their potential as a long-term partner

I've dated two, plus a Serb lady. The first Ukrainian was a gold-digger. Very attractive, ultra feminine, had excellent girl-game. It was old RVF days and I was lucky to read that she was just monkey-branching from one good deal to the next better deal. I ran into her recently and she is still looking for another trade up. Dodged an expensive bullet on that one.

The Serbian woman was an excellent lady, willing to commit to me, low/manageable hypergamy behavior. Closer age gap than the first woman. She was a good catch that I let go, maybe too easily. Again, very feminine. Literally said "I will cook healthy meals for us and keep a clean house always, if that is what you want." I believe she was sincere.

The second Ukrainian is, I believe, a keeper. Very feminine, traditional, and much lower hypergamy tendency. The age gap between us is closer than on either other woman. She's really a catch; practicing Orthodox, proud of appearance but not excessive, thrifty, considerate, and has reasonable expectations.

Younger FOB women are high threat/high reward. They know their advantages over US women, and how to play them. You must control your emotions and see your relation for what it is, not what you want it to be. Do not idealize/pedestalize them, but appreciate the good they bring and be willing to understand some of them are ice cold exploiters.

Generally speaking, age gap isn't as big a deal with these women. They don't mind dating someone 15+ years older. Instead, YOU better understand that the bigger the age gap, the more likely this relation is about resource extraction. Don't be a 45 year old 6, dating a 27 year old 8 and think you have upper hand. You likely don't. The age gap:wealth ratio is meaningful. The "score" gap is also meaningful.

My EO church has a surprising number of single women in the 30-50 range. Old guys will warn you about crypto-bimbos reforming themselves overnight, but it should be worth considering.
 
Not really much advice but just an anecdote from the little experience I have.

I just recently started dating one (and she is (was) actually somewhat famous there too). I'm slightly older than her but her two ex's were millionaires and 10-15 years older and it has been the most expensive dates I've had. While other Western girls usually offers themselves to buy at least some drinks or whatever, she hasn't and I'm expected to burn my wallet. But I appreciate gender roles and she believes in it and is more feminine and traditional than others too on the other hand, which is refreshing, so I have no problem with it(yet).

But I might sense some gold-digger vibe just judging by a photo I saw of one her ex (he was like a 5 and some nerd, so if it weren't for his looks, what was it?). Might have a better update to this later.
 
99 percent of the girls dating a guy 10-15 years her senior is doing it for the moneyz.

That's a fact that many here still seem to have problems with accepting. Flashbacks from RVF 1.0 when this 'the age gap doesn't exist in these countries' mantra had become some sort of PUA Internet knowledge - yet it was never to be witnessed first hand in any of those countries, unless there were a lot of green bills involved of course.

Ask yourself, have you ever seen a 38 year old Filipino/Colombian/Ukrainian construction worker with a 23 year old University student by his side?

As for the OPs question, I have been around Ukrainian/Russian women for years. The better-looking they are, the more insufferable they become. 24/7 bitchiness with a daily reason to quarrel. The plain(er) looking ones have by far the best character, and can be very pleasant and considerate people to be around. Many of them are at least nominally Christian too.

Also rest assured that there are millions of them willing to enter a relation with a decent (definitely don't need to be rich) foreign guy that's not a complete failure in life.

The problem is that many dudes only start realizing this when they are in their late 30s or early 40s and that's when you get these painful, frictious, overtly transactional relationships
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
Awesome thread. Also a question on my mind.

My experience to share:

I was engaged to a 15 years my junior Russian woman. She was from a wealthy background (e.g. richer than me - wasn't in it for my money), and was a real keeper. We met and lived in Australia. In the end I found her too quiet/shy/boring (she missed home too much) but extremely feminine, pleasant and lovely (stupid me, I know).

I know of one Ukrainian woman married to an Aussie guy living in Australia. She was a real naive small town/village type, good looking, prob an 8 locally based on looks alone. There is a big SMV discrepency here, he's an ugly pimply nerd loser who works for his parents and she's software developer out earning him as well. I fully suspect they met on some kind of marriage agency tour. They have two kids together and she constantly cheats on him with higher value guys. He knows about it but can't do anything. Sounds like hell for him.

I know of a second Ukrainian-Aussie marriage. The girl is probably an 7.5-8 locally (based on looks alone, which really all you need to do here in Australia is not be fat). Never met the guy. They had split up after having a kid together. So she's a 28yo single mum with a 6 month old baby. Sounds horrible also. Not sure who left who.

I know of another example same as above but with a Russian woman. She tried to date my friend whilst (not visibily) pregnant with some other guys child. Wtf? I have no idea why a woman would have baby by herself like this esp after she has nuked her SMV down 50%.

I have dated 2 other Russian women met here in Australia. Both of them seemed like good catches, caring and loyal (non-gold digger) women. They were both 26/27 and I was early 40. Both only had 1-2 boyfriends previously (estimated). One was very active on social media (Insta) with all kinds of posy pictures they all do but got married and instantly put it onto private like a good girl.

I dated another Russian woman here in Australia, she was 30/31. Career focused moron, she was a 7.5 who thought she was a 10. I was stuffed around by her for a bit before I learned to avoid her.

Another Russian living in Australia for 7 years. 33/34-ish, I'd give her a 9. Extremely intelligent and career focused, possible baby rabies. Very focused on settling down, it didn't work out for us due to timing. I was also unsure on the age thing but in hindsight it would have been fine. I had just finished dating a 25yo and 33/34 seemed too old at the time (not to mention I needed a post breakup break).


I suspect the best odds of success are to:

1. Avoid having a huge SMV gap - e.g. if you are 40-45 and an '8' man (with strong game and decent finances) go for a '8' late 20-something woman and no more (you will still be doing very well). If you are a 7 go for a 7, 6 a 6, etc.

2. Meet her over there and not in a Western country. Live over there for at least 5 years and have your kids there. Babysitters/her parents/schools/food/everything is much cheaper over there during your expensive baby years.

3. Consider moving back to your Western country once you have popped our your 3 kids and are very settled as a family.

4. Do you best to find the pleasant village type girl rather than the city gold digger type. Use your local Russian/Ukrainian guy and girl friends for their opinion on her (i.e. private 1 on 1 girl chat should be good).

5. Expand your search to Poland, Serbia, Solvenia, Romainia, etc.


I think if you take her back to your Western country before you've started your family hypergamy is a greater risk, even though yes it's much nicer to live in a 1st world country and the winters are bitter. Maybe live in Thailand/Mexico/Greece/Portugal for 3 months during euro-Winter.

Just my theory (plan) at the moment. Keen to hear comments/feedback.
 
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There is a big difference in everything (culture, human personalities) between Russia, Ukraine, and the East EU (current members of EU).
Also between Balkans and EE.

Russian, Ukraine, Balkans population and personality are much tougher, wilder, masculine. Living there was always harder.
That's why women here could be seen often as cold gold diggers. They want to escape poverty and enter that shining western world seen only on tv. And a western man is a ticket to that.

EE on other hand is a much more "soft" version of the eastern world.
Closer to the old EU, more civilization, and also more "soy food".
Women here are more delicate, and not so much driven by a desire to escape. But maybe more spoiled too.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Is she a devout Orthodox Christian? If not then she is a hyper-materialist who is going to be way more advanced than you when it comes to game (even if you have studied game), and you will be "happy" with her as long as she sees a material benefit, but if she believes an additional benefit can be found elsewhere, she will end things in a ruthless matter. American men who are used to American women with bad attitudes easily fall under the spell of even sub-par Slavic women.
 

DanielH

Pelican
Is she a devout Orthodox Christian? If not then she is a hyper-materialist who is going to be way more advanced than you when it comes to game (even if you have studied game), and you will be "happy" with her as long as she sees a material benefit, but if she believes an additional benefit can be found elsewhere, she will end things in a ruthless matter. American men who are used to American women with bad attitudes easily fall under the spell of even sub-par Slavic women.
My wife is half Ukrainian, just got her over here to comment on this thread. She says Roosh's post is spot on. She says Ukrainian women born and raised here with just the ethnic background are a safer bet than those straight from Ukraine.

We got married in a Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and they're still requiring masks and social distancing, for what that's worth. The immigrants, in our experience, are pretty progressive unfortunately. We're changing jurisdictions.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
Is she a devout Orthodox Christian? If not then she is a hyper-materialist who is going to be way more advanced than you when it comes to game (even if you have studied game), and you will be "happy" with her as long as she sees a material benefit, but if she believes an additional benefit can be found elsewhere, she will end things in a ruthless matter. American men who are used to American women with bad attitudes easily fall under the spell of even sub-par Slavic women.
Ahh yes, the catch-22 of finding a needle in a haystack of the orthodox world, then, since percentages are likely low across the pond regarding devoted believers. And if faithful women, sadly less likely to be interested in foreigners due to their being traditional - but I'm hope I'm wrong about that.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
I've dated two, plus a Serb lady. The first Ukrainian was a gold-digger. Very attractive, ultra feminine, had excellent girl-game. It was old RVF days and I was lucky to read that she was just monkey-branching from one good deal to the next better deal. I ran into her recently and she is still looking for another trade up. Dodged an expensive bullet on that one.

The Serbian woman was an excellent lady, willing to commit to me, low/manageable hypergamy behavior. Closer age gap than the first woman. She was a good catch that I let go, maybe too easily. Again, very feminine. Literally said "I will cook healthy meals for us and keep a clean house always, if that is what you want." I believe she was sincere.

The second Ukrainian is, I believe, a keeper. Very feminine, traditional, and much lower hypergamy tendency. The age gap between us is closer than on either other woman. She's really a catch; practicing Orthodox, proud of appearance but not excessive, thrifty, considerate, and has reasonable expectations.

Younger FOB women are high threat/high reward. They know their advantages over US women, and how to play them. You must control your emotions and see your relation for what it is, not what you want it to be. Do not idealize/pedestalize them, but appreciate the good they bring and be willing to understand some of them are ice cold exploiters.

Generally speaking, age gap isn't as big a deal with these women. They don't mind dating someone 15+ years older. Instead, YOU better understand that the bigger the age gap, the more likely this relation is about resource extraction. Don't be a 45 year old 6, dating a 27 year old 8 and think you have upper hand. You likely don't. The age gap:wealth ratio is meaningful. The "score" gap is also meaningful.

My EO church has a surprising number of single women in the 30-50 range. Old guys will warn you about crypto-bimbos reforming themselves overnight, but it should be worth considering.
Have you been traveling throughout EE for a while? I'm curious if a faithful orthodox woman would actually be open to someone from a different country, as I noted above in my catch 22 example.
 
Have you been traveling throughout EE for a while? I was wondering in the other thread how likely it would be to find a faithful orthodox woman who would actually not shun someone from a different country.
Only over the last 4 years, primarily 2 long trips. I'm not a big world traveler, but I'm not afraid of a new location either. Of the three Slavs I've dated, 2 had already immigrated to the US. The third I met in UA after some online connections. I have the same concern and know there are no guarantees, but I've time tested this one for several years and have a good hunch she's a fit. I am OCA and see devout people of all kinds at liturgy weekly, including such marriages. Personally, I see Orthodox Christianity as properly delivered Christianity to all people. It was Orthodox Priests that codified Aleutian Alaskan language. Orthodox Priests created Church Slavonic to witness to the Slavs. I am aware of some of the contradictions between the EO branches, but I am resource limited where I live, so I go where I can. My Priest is devout and very traditional. My girlfriend was baptized in a secret baptism, in the woods, as a child, during USSR times. She's younger than me by 6 years, so I'm probably pretty old compared to many RVF brothers. She's into the faith, and she doesn't see my foreign nature as a hard obstacle. Actually, with all the political BLM turmoil, she's been trying to persuade me to move to UA!
 
Typical problems of Americans married to Americans: "I found in my wife's phone pictures of an unknown naked man, and my wife is suddenly hostile towards me, what now?"

Typical problems of Americans married to Russians: " I found in my wife's phone pictures of the nearby military base, but my wife acts still very lovely towards me, what now?"
 
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Feyoder

Kingfisher
After coming from a rather brutal breakup with an EE girl who was 15 years my junior (I misjudged her girl game and bought the lie that a secular lifestyle / relationship ever ends in anything other than misery for everyone), and seeing the many experiences of other men, and more of my own, it can work but:
  • Your permanent home must be in her country of origin:
    • E Michael Jones talks about this in "The Slaughter of Cities". The gist is that your morality comes from your social group. And when you shift people around they go morally crazy. The temptation for an EE girl (at least in my own western shit hole) is insane daily. And if she makes any friends it multiplies (even if you somehow restrict her friend group to the church alone).
    • But living in these places might be unideal. They're polluted. Bad health services (though there's ways around this). Bad policing (but in a mono-culture/ethnos the need is far less). Bad infrastructure. (PM me for more details).

  • The age difference isn't as big a deal for sure but if, visually, it looks ridiculous (you look way older for e.g.) it'll be a big strain on the relationship (murmuring).
    • Also, just like in the West looks matter. This surprised me but it's not the 90s any more or even the 2010s. Guys, at least in the country I'm thinking of (the best one imo--PM), dress well and are fit.
    • The bankroll factor is something only misguided people think will overcome these limitations. And it might, for a while, for a purely secular transactional relationship. If you can beat the girl game here though... good freaking luck. In my experience, for the good ones, a basic Western level income will put you well into the necessary category for that anyway.

  • You must know the native language at a very good level

  • Most important: You should be religious and of the same religion.
    • No having premarital sex.
    • Family focused
Given that, I really think it can work out. And I've seen it. But it's rare because 99% of the time these conditions are not met.
 
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