Need help examining behavior of Russian/Ukrainian women and their potential as a long-term partner

Coja Petrus Uscan

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
One thing that has not been directly mentioned here is the testing. Russia is the only country I have been to and know less about for having done so. Ukraine seems easier to get a handle on, but more materialistic. Some time ago there was a guy (@Lighthouse ?) who posted how he learned Russian, got on an Orthodox dating site and got married. He was and hopefully still is married to a woman who he could not converse fully with. Sounds like he was not fully conversational and he mentioned that there are often big problems with being able to understand his wife, culturally. But still it sounded he married a traditional, homely women. So the chances of failure are going to be much lower than The West.

I have been to all kinds of counties and spoke with people at length via translator. But it's only Russians there is this huge gulf in being able to understand their intentions. Particularly if you don't speak the same language. Trying to get a grasp on that would be a good place to start.

I have been to Kazkhstan and will possibly go again in the summer. The nature of Russians/Europeans in Kazakhstan is very different. In my experience it did not have this same cultural chasm as Russia does. Further the Kazkhstan Russians are a lot more feminine. I had one Russian girlfriend there, fluent in English, and she would accept my "baby girling", which virtually any other Euro-girl will reject as an affront to their status as your equal. Baby girling is saying and doing things that reduce a girl to a more child-like state of being in which she is the junior partner. They will speak of themselves in the third person, speak in soft undulating tones, say things like "Tell something cute", "Tell about true love". In my opinion the proper relation between a husband and wife is the husband continues the role of the father. The husband protects and the wife cares. It is symbiotic and makes you both stronger in fulfilling your role.

I would say Russians in Kazakhstan are the most feminine Europeans; more so than Turks, at least the city ones.

So in answer to OP, you have to have some sort of grasp of what it is Russian women often expect, which is something along the lines of a killer, to use the words of Jorge Biden. Someone else will be better place to say what that is. But my general conception is they expect you to be dominant and maybe cruel. There are going to be women less/not like that, though I don't know enough of how to delineate them. For me, those kind of women are too high-level and luckily I don't tick their boxes, so am immune to them... unless they are married and having a casual 1+ on the husband, which it seems happens a lot.

Another observation in this vein - Russian women seem to generally want a killer who is very loving and attentive to them, which are virtually mutually exclusive. Nor is that congruent with Western Civ. heritage. I heard a lot about marriages where the woman was initially impressed by the husband's chest-thumping, but he grew bored of her. Married women complain a lot about emotional neglect. The whole situation is quiet alien to us, because to be a normie in Russia is to be red-pill in The West.

This is all very fallen-state though. General rules apply as in The West, but via the lens of a red-pill society, that is one that is actually highly materialistic and competitive.

In my limited experience, the older a woman is, the more likely she is to drop her killer attraction. Not that is necessarily a good thing.
 

bucky

Ostrich
asdf
Divorce rate seem to be very amongst high Russian/Ukrainian women who marry out and settle in the West.
On my observation these do not make good wives mother when they marry non-Russian/non-Ukranian men...
This is true, although they don't even seem to do very well as wives when they marry their own men. The divorce rate is very high in Ukraine and Russia and anecdotally, when I lived over there, I saw lots of pretty young wives engage in the same kind of hypergamous shenanigans they're famous for in the West and leave their local guy husbands.
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
Awesome thread. Also a question on my mind.

My experience to share:

I forgot to add an additional real life example:

Ukrainian girl, Aussie guy. Guy was a dating instructor living the 'poly' life. They married, she moved to Australia, and AFAIK she dumped him practically ASAP and is living it up here in Australia. She def had a scammy vibe, her ex in Ukraine was a legit gangster. As far as I can tell she fully used him for a passport.

So yeah, my personal real life stats are horrific with Ukrainians. Russians seem better.
 
Typical problems of Americans married to Americans: "I found in my wife's phone pictures of an unknown naked man, and my wife is suddenly hostile towards me, what now?"

Typical problems of Americans married to Russians: " I found in my wife's phone pictures of the nearby military base, but my wife acts still very lovely towards me, what now?"

You just reminded me that I need to watch the final season of the great tv series, The Americans. : )
 
After coming from a rather brutal breakup with an EE girl who was 15 years my junior (I misjudged her girl game and bought the lie that a secular lifestyle / relationship ever ends in anything other than misery for everyone), and seeing the many experiences of other men, and more of my own, it can work but:
  • Your permanent home must be in her country of origin:
    • E Michael Jones talks about this in "The Slaughter of Cities". The gist is that your morality comes from your social group. And when you shift people around they go morally crazy. The temptation for an EE girl (at least in my own western shit hole) is insane daily. And if she makes any friends it multiplies (even if you somehow restrict her friend group to the church alone).
    • But living in these places might be unideal. They're polluted. Bad health services (though there's ways around this). Bad policing (but in a mono-culture/ethnos the need is far less). Bad infrastructure. (PM me for more details).
  • The age difference isn't as big a deal for sure but if, visually, it looks ridiculous (you look way older for e.g.) it'll be a big strain on the relationship (murmuring).
    • Also, just like in the West looks matter. This surprised me but it's not the 90s any more or even the 2010s. Guys, at least in the country I'm thinking of (the best one imo--PM), dress well and are fit.
    • The bankroll factor is something only misguided people think will overcome these limitations. And it might, for a while, for a purely secular transactional relationship. If you can beat the girl game here though... good freaking luck. In my experience, for the good ones, a basic Western level income will put you well into the necessary category for that anyway.
  • You must know the native language at a very good level

  • Most important: You should be religious and of the same religion.
    • No having premarital sex.
    • Family focused
Given that, I really think it can work out. And I've seen it. But it's rare because 99% of the time these conditions are not met.

"The gist is that your morality comes from your social group."

So true! As an American expat, I definitely see this with my Filipina partner, who lives in fear of what her family and friends think of her. If she were to be seen as a "cheating slut and bad mom" it would make her life pure hell.


"And when you shift people around they go morally crazy."

And moving to America would over time show a whole new side to her...

"The temptation for an EE girl (at least in my own western shit hole) is insane daily."

I attended university in the late nineties, and at my school there was a program where around 500 Russian students attended to major in business and become good little capitalists. Of those 500 Russians, a little over half were female. And I mean tall, beautiful, highly intelligent, good at math and science, sexy, straight A student, usually humble, dressed to the nines Russian young women who were largely from elite families back in Russia. When these ladies first showed up on campus, you could hear the teeth grind of the American coeds who recognized that they were outclassed! Lol But to the relief of the local girls, the Russian women rarely dated American men due to the social pressure from their culture and ever watching and scowling male counterparts. But there were some exceptions, like an acquaintance of mine, who could have been a young version of Egon from Ghostbusters, who married a gorgeous tough talking Russian woman who lead our now award winning school ballet team. She could swear like a sailor, and it turned out had come from a long line of them!

I had a friend who dated a Russian gal, who just adored him. He was definitely an alpha chad, and was basically catnip for women. But she was a very kinky young woman, and liked extreme physical abuse as a form of sexual foreplay. And this nearly got him literally killed! Her Russian labor union leader of a father, invited my friend to Russia for a few weeks of relaxation, and to get to know him better. This American young man had no idea what was planned for him. The father had noticed lots of bruises on his sweet daughter and assumed my friend was beating her up. And so he had my pal go hunting with him in the Russian wilderness, with a few of his union goons along for the ride. At a certain point they grabbed my friend and held him by his ankles as he was dangled off a bridge with a long drop to the bottom! When the father said "this is for what you do to my daughter!," my friend screamed out the truth and that he didn't even like doing it. The father must have sensed the ring of truth and spared his life, at least for the time being. A phone call was made by the father to his daughter that confirmed that my friend was not lying and so he was not killed! What a conversation between father and daughter...

When I think about it, I've had kind of an interesting life.
 
Are there noticeable personality differences between Russian/Ukrainian women vs. other eastern european nationalities? (Romanian, Baltic Countries, Balkans, etc.)
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
My understanding is that Ukrainians (esp. to Russians etc) are all known for being 2-5% scammer deep down. They have a word for it that translates to 'sly'. Of course, this is a generalisation, however when you think of what they went through with the Holodomor that situation would have selected for the craftier (and potentially better looking) ones.

A theory I have on why they are so good looking - as horrible as it sounds if you have three children and two need to starve would they favour the better looking one? Obviously a dark and horrible thing to think about. RIP the victims of this genocide.
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
Remember you also have:

Moldova
Romania
Serbia
Poland
Georgia
Russia
Croatia
Estonia
Armenia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Hungary
etc etc etc

All worth exploring for the religious trad wives we seek. Yes some of these are partially Westernised but still far better than where we are from.
 
Remember you also have:

Moldova
Romania
Serbia
Poland
Georgia
Russia
Croatia
Estonia
Armenia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Hungary
etc etc etc

All worth exploring for the religious trad wives we seek. Yes some of these are partially Westernised but still far better than where we are from.

I've heard Serbian women are something else, and full of fire! I first took notice of Serbians when as a teen I took a taxi somewhere, and the proudly Serbian cab driver shook with rage as he shared the accounts of war crimes committed by Muslims 800 years ago, upon his people! Damn! I only know one Serbian woman, but she is both beautiful, athletic, educated, very intelligent and highly pugnacious. Anyone who mistreats her will reap the whirlwind! Lol And yet she was married for quite some time and has three adult children who seem to have turned out well.
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
"The gist is that your morality comes from your social group."

So true! As an American expat, I definitely see this with my Filipina partner, who lives in fear of what her family and friends think of her. If she were to be seen as a "cheating slut and bad mom" it would make her life pure hell.

Agreed. This is why I think for best odds of success you really need to live in their country (surrounded by her social circle, her family, her church) until at least you have had your 3 kids and a very solidified as a family. Not to mention - you can benefit from her younger parents helping with raising the kids.

So part of this deal is sacrificing our comfy Western lifestyle but more importantly away from your own culture, friends and family.

But instead, we will live among the top 5% in a poorer country so still a good life.
 
I was reading through the thread about Dating in the USA and was hoping you guys could elaborate on your thoughts and views(and experiences) with Russian/Ukrainian women

Could be any kind of evidence, anecdotal or not.

@bucky @Zeknichov @griffinmill
I married a Ukrainian woman. We have been married 14 years and together 16 years. We have two children. She has been a great wife. She is a fabulous mother. She is intelligent, beautiful, has aged well, and is cultured. Just go there to meet a woman. Avoid the ex-pat hang outs. Go to clubs near the Opera House, especially during the day in Kiev. Chevchenko University is nearby and there are a lot of students there. Just chat one up in English. Most will take advantage of the opportunity to speak with a native. Be respectful, a gentleman, and dress well and you will have an embarrassment of choices. Brush up on Ukrainian and Russian history and culture before you go, learn some Russian.
 

Pointy Elbows

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I've heard Serbian women are something else, and full of fire! I first took notice of Serbians when as a teen I took a taxi somewhere, and the proudly Serbian cab driver shook with rage as he shared the accounts of war crimes committed by Muslims 800 years ago, upon his people! Damn! I only know one Serbian woman, but she is both beautiful, athletic, educated, very intelligent and highly pugnacious.

That describes well the one Serb lady I dated, and my one ethnic Serb buddy sounds like your cab driver!
 

Pointy Elbows

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I married a Ukrainian woman. We have been married 14 years and together 16 years. We have two children. She has been a great wife. She is a fabulous mother. She is intelligent, beautiful, has aged well, and is cultured. Just go there to meet a woman. Avoid the ex-pat hang outs. Go to clubs near the Opera House, especially during the day in Kiev. Chevchenko University is nearby and there are a lot of students there. Just chat one up in English. Most will take advantage of the opportunity to speak with a native. Be respectful, a gentleman, and dress well and you will have an embarrassment of choices. Brush up on Ukrainian and Russian history and culture before you go, learn some Russian.
Tough to beat this for sound advice.
 

iop890

Peacock
Gold Member
Wouldn't Asia or South America be better when it comes to loyalty? Even though it would take some investment to assimilate the next generation fully.

Maybe, but if you're Orthodox like many on the forum are that kind of narrows the options down. I don't know much about EE but surely it's easier to find a loyal girl there than it is to find an Orthodox girl in Asia.

Remember you also have:

Moldova
Romania
Serbia
Poland
Georgia
Russia
Croatia
Estonia
Armenia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Hungary
etc etc etc

All worth exploring for the religious trad wives we seek. Yes some of these are partially Westernised but still far better than where we are from.

Georgia seems pretty cool. I've read a few negative posts about it but they're mostly coming from a secular PUA perspective complaining that the girls aren't as hot as Ukrainians, Russians, etc. Which isn't really my top priority, though I'd be lying if I said it didn't matter to me at all.

Thinking of checking it out for myself.
 
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ZAMSKI

Robin
I've dated two, plus a Serb lady. The first Ukrainian was a gold-digger. Very attractive, ultra feminine, had excellent girl-game. It was old RVF days and I was lucky to read that she was just monkey-branching from one good deal to the next better deal. I ran into her recently and she is still looking for another trade up. Dodged an expensive bullet on that one.

The Serbian woman was an excellent lady, willing to commit to me, low/manageable hypergamy behavior. Closer age gap than the first woman. She was a good catch that I let go, maybe too easily. Again, very feminine. Literally said "I will cook healthy meals for us and keep a clean house always, if that is what you want." I believe she was sincere.

The second Ukrainian is, I believe, a keeper. Very feminine, traditional, and much lower hypergamy tendency. The age gap between us is closer than on either other woman. She's really a catch; practicing Orthodox, proud of appearance but not excessive, thrifty, considerate, and has reasonable expectations.

Younger FOB women are high threat/high reward. They know their advantages over US women, and how to play them. You must control your emotions and see your relation for what it is, not what you want it to be. Do not idealize/pedestalize them, but appreciate the good they bring and be willing to understand some of them are ice cold exploiters.

Generally speaking, age gap isn't as big a deal with these women. They don't mind dating someone 15+ years older. Instead, YOU better understand that the bigger the age gap, the more likely this relation is about resource extraction. Don't be a 45 year old 6, dating a 27 year old 8 and think you have upper hand. You likely don't. The age gap:wealth ratio is meaningful. The "score" gap is also meaningful.

My EO church has a surprising number of single women in the 30-50 range. Old guys will warn you about crypto-bimbos reforming themselves overnight, but it should be worth considering.
One of the much better, well-balanced comment and advice. Good to know there are still people who got their head in the right place on this forum.
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
I married a Ukrainian woman. We have been married 14 years and together 16 years. We have two children. She has been a great wife. She is a fabulous mother. She is intelligent, beautiful, has aged well, and is cultured. Just go there to meet a woman. Avoid the ex-pat hang outs. Go to clubs near the Opera House, especially during the day in Kiev. Chevchenko University is nearby and there are a lot of students there. Just chat one up in English. Most will take advantage of the opportunity to speak with a native. Be respectful, a gentleman, and dress well and you will have an embarrassment of choices. Brush up on Ukrainian and Russian history and culture before you go, learn some Russian.

Awesome post and sound advice. It's very easy to over complicate things.

Can I ask @Carlos Danger do you live in Ukraine or did you bring her back to your (presumably) Western country?

I'm also interested in your age gap and SMV gap if you are comfortable to share.

If you are in Ukraine, how do you find adjusting to your new life there?
 

bucky

Ostrich
asdf
Maybe, but if you're Orthodox like many on the forum are that kind of narrows the options down. I don't know much about EE but surely it's easier to find a loyal girl there than it is to find an Orthodox girl in Asia.



Georgia seems pretty cool. I've read a few negative posts about it but they're mostly coming from a secular PUA perspective complaining that the girls aren't as hot as Ukrainians, Russians, etc. Which isn't really my top priority, though I'd be lying if I said it didn't matter to me at all.

Thinking of checking it out for myself.
For what it's worth, Matt Forney spent a year or two living in Georgia when he was still podcasting regularly. He liked it a lot and it sounded like a great place.
 

thedonald

Pigeon
What would you advise are the steps you'd take supposing you had the finances in place to move.

Would you simply turn up and run standard day game on these potential wives?

Or do you guy's have any stories on how you've previously met a quality girl.
 
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