Need help examining behavior of Russian/Ukrainian women and their potential as a long-term partner

TheLongGame

Chicken
Orthodox
I'm moving to Ukraine in September to hopefully meet someone serious after scoping the scene and understand the culture and people better, learning the language, etc. I intend to stay in Eastern Europe after meeting her.

My experience with Ukrainian girls from the time I visited and the ones I met abroad is that they actually someone fall into two categories: terrible users/gold-diggers and genuinely sweet and undramatic.

My (longer) experience with Balkan women is that they smoke too much, are too dramatic, and very tied to their social circle. The issue with this last part is that you have to deal with that social circle quite a bit and if there's some shitheads on top of it, well that's your new best buddies like it or not. Ultimately I did not have the patience to build a social circle worth a damn (even if I did actually know the language), which is the only solid way to meet women for something serious over there. The Balkans is basically one big village. I can't change my feathers that drastically, I appreciate the not as pozzed aspect of the northern slavosphere on top of its more worldly perspective and geopolitical importance. Settling down in a balkan village feels too small time-y for me, I want to be part of a bigger story.

Ukraine was also much better for me because you can meet many more women much more quickly and easily without having to jump through social circle hoops. I don't believe the hype that they're all deep down rotten, I am sure there are many decent ones even if some are kind of materialistic.

However, I will be adhering to the following rule: no marriage until preggers. Had issues with that once already, not making that (sad) mistake again (full disclosure: married a good woman who was unfortunately barren, did not want to do IVF). Actually speaking of my ex, she was also materialistic, but in a realistic way and not looking to trade up at every turn.

Question: can you actually meet Ukranian/Russian girls in churches over there?
 
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vstk

Pigeon
Huh, interesting. Could you go into more detail. I was thinking about checking the place out.
As usual it depends a lot on your personal preferences, what you value most... some of my reasons below

- It is one of the most atheist countries in the world, what they really believe in is technology and "progress".
14% of Estonians gave a positive answer to the question: “Is religion an important part of your daily life?”
You can imagine how that translates when it comes to the odds of finding an agreeable traditional wife.

- Veganism, rainbow coloured / short hair, piercings and tattoos,... these trends are present in most parts of the world but Estonia is at the forefront.

- I personally can't stand the Estonian accent. A girl can look like a mermaid, if it hurts when she speaks then I will lose any attraction I felt for her. I have the same reaction than to hearing a woman with a loud and deep masculine voice.

- Estonian girls are the tallest in the world. You better be very tall if you want to compete. (I am not)

- Estonian culture is cold and lots of people are socially awkward to the point of autism. I wouldn't want that kind of influence on my kids. They have to get wasted to relax and open up to new people.

There are Russians in Tallinn but there are better places to go to meet Russian ladies.

(Apologies for replying that late, I am not coming on this forum frequently.)

I'd question that)) C'mon, you can't make such crazy generalizations...

How many Estonian women have you gotten to know? All of them?...
Enough of them

Would you recommend going to a tiny country where the overwhelming majority is atheist to someone seeking a "religious trad wife"? Well, I wouldn't.
I am aware that one can find a good woman to marry in the most unlikely places, with some luck. However, I would not count on luck that much.
 
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As usual it depends a lot on your personal preferences, what you value most... some of my reasons below

- It is one of the most atheist countries in the world, what they really believe in is technology and "progress".
14% of Estonians gave a positive answer to the question: “Is religion an important part of your daily life?”
You can imagine how that translates when it comes to the odds of finding an agreeable traditional wife.

- Veganism, rainbow coloured / short hair, piercings and tattoos,... these trends are present in most parts of the world but Estonia is at the forefront.

- I personally can't stand the Estonian accent. A girl can look like a mermaid, if it hurts when she speaks then I will lose any attraction I felt for her. I have the same reaction than to hearing a woman with a loud and deep masculine voice.

- Estonian girls are the tallest in the world. You better be very tall if you want to compete. (I am not)

- Estonian culture is cold and lots of people are socially awkward to the point of autism. I wouldn't want that kind of influence on my kids. They have to get wasted to relax and open up to new people.

There are Russians in Tallinn but there are better places to go to meet Russian ladies.

(Apologies for replying that late, I am not coming on this forum frequently.)


Enough of them

Would you recommend going to a tiny country where the overwhelming majority is atheist to someone seeking a "religious trad wife"? Well, I wouldn't.
I am aware that one can find a good woman to marry in the most unlikely places, with some luck. However, I would not count on luck that much.

Interesting, I have a friend who is a scientist, and she relocated there and apparently likes it. I think she actually moved there for work. And she is currently raising a daughter alone, who has spent the bulk of her life in Estonia, though she is not of Estonian ancestry.

She did say that the people/culture was very "rules oriented" and that despite being no slouch intellectually, it was a lot of work to gain citizenship. You basically have to be near fluent in their language.
 

vstk

Pigeon
Interesting, I have a friend who is a scientist, and she relocated there and apparently likes it. I think she actually moved there for work. And she is currently raising a daughter alone, who has spent the bulk of her life in Estonia, though she is not of Estonian ancestry.

She did say that the people/culture was very "rules oriented" and that despite being no slouch intellectually, it was a lot of work to gain citizenship. You basically have to be near fluent in their language.

Life in Tallinn is not bad at all. It is a clean, quiet and safe place. People are professional and things tend to work (as opposed to latin countries). There are both economic growth and job opportunities. Quality of life has been steadily improving.
The lack of sunlight for many months a year absolutely killed me though. Very unhealthy. And nature is not great compared to many places in western Europe. It is abundant but very monotonous.

Learning Finno-Ugric languages is high effort / low reward.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Remember you also have:

Moldova
Romania
Serbia
Poland
Georgia
Russia
Croatia
Estonia
Armenia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Hungary
etc etc etc

All worth exploring for the religious trad wives we seek. Yes some of these are partially Westernised but still far better than where we are from.


What kind of trad woman from countries like Armenia, Georgia and Serbia, would want to date & potentially marry a foreigner?

Especially so in the former two. The social pressure they will have from families to marry within their kind would excacerbate this. The ony girls who would be interested are Westernised. Also chances are a trad girl from those countries won't even speak English, not to any accomplished level at least.

And if you did, what would you want to do? Take a trad Armenian girl back to your Western country? Why?

If you want to emigrate, just go to a country and stay there and live your life, meeting women as and when, and finding a wife from osmosis, related to your life within that country.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Life in Tallinn is not bad at all. It is a clean, quiet and safe place. People are professional and things tend to work (as opposed to latin countries). There are both economic growth and job opportunities. Quality of life has been steadily improving.
The lack of sunlight for many months a year absolutely killed me though. Very unhealthy. And nature is not great compared to many places in western Europe. It is abundant but very monotonous.

Learning Finno-Ugric languages is high effort / low reward.
I can't imagine trying to learn Estonian. The Finno-Ugric languages supposedly make Russian look simple, and learning Russian is probably the hardest thing I've ever done. Then, on top of that, I don't know how you'd even find materials for a language as obscure as Estonian. I tried to learn some Ukrainian once and it was difficult to find materials even for that.

You make a good point about Latin American countries. While I'll argue all day that Latinas in general make the best foreign wives, a major downside is that you have to deal with her home country where pretty much nothing works and, if you have a daughter, you have to constantly worry about her being sexually harassed or molested if you ever live there. Latin America is a lot of fun as a single guy, but a nightmare if you're trying to raise a family.
 

vstk

Pigeon
I can't imagine trying to learn Estonian. The Finno-Ugric languages supposedly make Russian look simple, and learning Russian is probably the hardest thing I've ever done. Then, on top of that, I don't know how you'd even find materials for a language as obscure as Estonian. I tried to learn some Ukrainian once and it was difficult to find materials even for that.

You make a good point about Latin American countries. While I'll argue all day that Latinas in general make the best foreign wives, a major downside is that you have to deal with her home country where pretty much nothing works and, if you have a daughter, you have to constantly worry about her being sexually harassed or molested if you ever live there. Latin America is a lot of fun as a single guy, but a nightmare if you're trying to raise a family.

The best shot I had was my relationship with a Brazilian who had just moved to Portugal because she'd had enough of safety problems. Portugal is a hotspot for Brazilian immigrants. I agree with you, I would never want to live in Latin America long term unless I was single.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
While I'll argue all day that Latinas in general make the best foreign wives, a major downside is that you have to deal with her home country where pretty much nothing works and, if you have a daughter, you have to constantly worry about her being sexually harassed or molested if you ever live there.

TBF if you live in the UK in a town that has any kind of Pakistani population, you will have the same problem, but without the sunshine.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I recall hearing the same thing about living in a city in Germany that had a large Turkish population. Or a Swedish city with a middle eastern population neighborhood/ghetto...

iu
 

Australia Sucks

Kingfisher
I don't think anybody on this forum is claiming that Russian/Ukrainian women are angels but they still aren't anywhere near as awful as western women, not even close!

Also I suspect a lot of the problems as has been discussed ad-nauseam on Rooshv is guys marrying the girl and taking her out of her country. If you find a good girl in a foreign country and want to get married leave where you found her and move yourself to where she lives. You might take a hit financially but in the long run you will be better off especially if it means you dodge the bullet of being divorce raped.
The effect of pozzed western culture polluting a girl is so powerful that even despite how much its talked on Rooshv its still very understimated!! When I spent 6 weeks in Colombia in 2017 for vacation I met numerous girls that appeared to be marriage-worthy. In Australia I have met dozens of Colombian girls over the years and every single one of them was trash.
 

Australia Sucks

Kingfisher
Also when looking at divorce statistics regarding Russian and Ukrainian women we need to take the above into consideration. It’s no surprise if a Russian or Ukrainian couple will get divorced if Borris is only earning $500 per month working at the local vodka factory. You can’t support a family at a comfortable standard of living on that salary. I suspect that’s what causes a lot of divorces in Ukrainian and Russian Marriages. As for Ukrainian/Russian marriages to foreigners most men make the mistake of ringing the girl home as I wrote in my post above.

To me the relevant divorce statistics would be how often does a Russian/Ukrainian woman divorce a foreigner that has existed to her country and earns at least $2000 per month?
And secondly how often does a Ukrainian or Russian divorce a local man that earns at least $2000 per month?
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I'm very happily married to a great Ukranian girl. IMHO most of the stuff you see besmirching any large block of women, 9 times out of 10 is a cope from someone who had a bad experience.

There's plenty of attractive, trad minded, Christian girls in Ukraine. Not that many in the West. I think a lot of the issues stem from the fact that there's this idea that in places like Ukraine Western men can automatically get way above their SMV. I dunno, maybe that was the case in the 90s and early 00s, but now, it's not that different to anywhere, in that department.

But the numbers of eligible partners, who are Christian, feminine and wanting a trad family life, are still considerably higher than the West. That and the culture in Ukraine is nowhere near as malign in terms of Pozz, feminism etc etc.
 
I'm very happily married to a great Ukranian girl. IMHO most of the stuff you see besmirching any large block of women, 9 times out of 10 is a cope from someone who had a bad experience.

There's plenty of attractive, trad minded, Christian girls in Ukraine. Not that many in the West. I think a lot of the issues stem from the fact that there's this idea that in places like Ukraine Western men can automatically get way above their SMV. I dunno, maybe that was the case in the 90s and early 00s, but now, it's not that different to anywhere, in that department.

But the numbers of eligible partners, who are Christian, feminine and wanting a trad family life, are still considerably higher than the West. That and the culture in Ukraine is nowhere near as malign in terms of Pozz, feminism etc etc.

El Draque, do you live in the Ukraine? Or did you take your foreign bride home to the West?
 
I'm moving to Ukraine in September to hopefully meet someone serious after scoping the scene and understand the culture and people better, learning the language, etc. I intend to stay in Eastern Europe after meeting her.

My experience with Ukrainian girls from the time I visited and the ones I met abroad is that they actually someone fall into two categories: terrible users/gold-diggers and genuinely sweet and undramatic.

My (longer) experience with Balkan women is that they smoke too much, are too dramatic, and very tied to their social circle. The issue with this last part is that you have to deal with that social circle quite a bit and if there's some shitheads on top of it, well that's your new best buddies like it or not. Ultimately I did not have the patience to build a social circle worth a damn (even if I did actually know the language), which is the only solid way to meet women for something serious over there. The Balkans is basically one big village. I can't change my feathers that drastically, I appreciate the not as pozzed aspect of the northern slavosphere on top of its more worldly perspective and geopolitical importance. Settling down in a balkan village feels too small time-y for me, I want to be part of a bigger story.

Ukraine was also much better for me because you can meet many more women much more quickly and easily without having to jump through social circle hoops. I don't believe the hype that they're all deep down rotten, I am sure there are many decent ones even if some are kind of materialistic.

However, I will be adhering to the following rule: no marriage until preggers. Had issues with that once already, not making that (sad) mistake again (full disclosure: married a good woman who was unfortunately barren, did not want to do IVF). Actually speaking of my ex, she was also materialistic, but in a realistic way and not looking to trade up at every turn.

Question: can you actually meet Ukranian/Russian girls in churches over there?
so you are going to begin your relationship in sin and expect it to work out somehow later?
 

Marco B.

Chicken
Its already 21 years ago, but i still remember many things about my first (and probably last) ukrainian girlfriend, cause it was a intense experience.
I met her at a big New years eve party 1999/2000 in germany.She was 20 years old and definitely the most beautiful girl
at this party.I was 31 years old.I approached her and i got her phone number.Man, i was soo happy because the new millenia "started so great".
She lived in germany since a few months and worked as au pair girl.
Few days later i picked her up at her place.She saw my car.It was "only" a VW Golf II.She immediatly asked me "Do you intend to buy
a new car in near future....?" My car was actually okay.Not the best, but very clean.My alarm bells already started to ring.
But i slightly fell in love and therefire ignored this first red flag.
One month later i moved into another much bigger, better and nicer appartment located in a very good area.This appartment was actually big enough for two people, except the kitchen was a little tiny.But already on the very first day in this new appartment she started a heavy drama..
She said that while living in Ukraine, people told her that every german in germany lives in his own house.....
She displayed her dissatisfaction, because she didnt like the kitchen.She was also angry, because at that first evening i have had no time to cook and therefore we only ate some kind of fast food.She then went into the bedroom and started to smoke in it.I told her not to smoke in the bedroom, cause i didnt like it.But she replied " I dont care!" So our first day in our new appartment was totally ruined!!
Few days later she said " Dont expect me to cook for you.I am not the kind of woman who cooks for a guy"
Some days later we were walking down the streets.A beggar approached us and asked me for money.She asked me" What did he want from us?" I said "Money, of course". She said: "Oh really? I didnt know that there are poor people in germany too".
At this point of course i already knew that this relationship would not last much longer.At least she never rejected sex and because
of her looks it was a kind of great PR. My friends envied me.But deep down i got more and more unhappy.

Some days later she asked me if i can lend her some money.She said she needs to buy a present for a friend of her.She promised
me to return the money some days later.Some days later i asked her about the money. She replied "Dont be a jerk.Dont be stingy.You gave me the money.Just forget this money!"
Some days later she called her much younger sister (12 years old) who still lived in Ukraine.They were talking ukrainian for a longer time.
When it was over i asked her: "How is your sister? What did she say? " She said: " Fine.I told my sister that i have a new boy friend.She wants to know if you are a man who has money........" !!!!!!!

CAN YOU IMAGINE??? A ONLY 12 YEAR OLD UKRAINIAN GIRL IS ALREADY INTERESTED IN GUYS WITH MONEY....!!!!!!!
HOW DECADENT IS UKRAINIAN CULTURE?????

Some days later we decided to take a short trip for only a half day to Amsterdam.I spent about 300 Deutsche Mark /150 Euro/150 dollar.
This trip was much more expensive than expected.Therefore i told her: "This trip was great, honey.But too expensive.I cannot
spent every weekend so much money." But she wasnt thankful at all.Instead she became angry and said that if i really love her, that from now on i have to spend that much money INDEAD every weekend......
THAT WAS ENOUGH, I WAS REALLY ANGRY and i FINALLY DUMPED her after 3 months.
Few weeks later some people told me, that she complained about my behaviour "cause i treated her badly".

I am very very sure that meanwhile my former girlfriend at the age of 41 and her 33 years old sister are somewhere high class professional Golddiggers.
Dear Reader, don´t be fooled by beauty!
 
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El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Its already 21 years ago, but i still remember many things about my first (and probably last) ukrainian girlfriend, cause it was a intense experience.
I met her at a big New years eve party 1999/2000 in germany.She was 20 years old and definitely the most beautiful girl
at this party.I was 31 years old.I approached her and i got her phone number.Man, i was soo happy because the new millenia "started so great".
She lived in germany since a few months and worked as au pair girl.
Few days later i picked her up at her place.She saw my car.It was "only" a VW Golf II.She immediatly asked me "Do you intend to buy
a new car in near future....?" My car was actually okay.Not the best, but very clean.My alarm bells already started to ring.
But i slightly fell in love and therefire ignored this first red flag.
One month later i moved into another much bigger, better and nicer appartment located in a very good area.This appartment was actually big enough for two people, except the kitchen was a little tiny.But already on the very first day in this new appartment she started a heavy drama..
She said that while living in Ukraine, people told her that every german in germany lives in his own house.....
She displayed her dissatisfaction, because she didnt like the kitchen.She was also angry, because at that first evening i have had no time to cook and therefore we only ate some kind of fast food.She then went into the bedroom and started to smoke in it.I told her not to smoke in the bedroom, cause i didnt like it.But she replied " I dont care!" So our first day in our new appartment was totally ruined!!
Few days later she said " Dont expect me to cook for you.I am not the kind of woman who cooks for a guy"
Some days later we were walking down the streets.A beggar approached us and asked me for money.She asked me" What did he want from us?" I said "Money, of course". She said: "Oh really? I didnt know that there are poor people in germany too".
At this point of course i already knew that this relationship would not last much longer.At least she never rejected sex and because
of her looks it was a kind of great PR. My friends envied me.But deep down i got more and more unhappy.

Some days later she asked me if i can lend her some money.She said she needs to buy a present for a friend of her.She promised
me to return the money some days later.Some days later i asked her about the money. She replied "Dont be a jerk.Dont be stingy.You gave me the money.Just forget this money!"
Some days later she called her much younger sister (12 years old) who still lived in Ukraine.They were talking ukrainian for a longer time.
When it was over i asked her: "How is your sister? What did she say? " She said: " Fine.I told my sister that i have a new boy friend.She wants to know if you are a man who has money........" !!!!!!!

CAN YOU IMAGINE??? A ONLY 12 YEAR OLD UKRAINIAN GIRL IS ALREADY INTERESTED IN GUYS WITH MONEY....!!!!!!!
HOW DECADENT IS UKRAINIAN CULTURE?????

Some days later we decided to take a short trip for only a half day to Amsterdam.I spent about 300 Deutsche Mark /150 Euro/150 dollar.
This trip was much more expensive than expected.Therefore i told her: "This trip was great, honey.But too expensive.I cannot
spent every weekend so much money." But she wasnt thankful at all.Instead she became angry and said that if i really love her, that from now on i have to spend that much money INDEAD every weekend......
THAT WAS ENOUGH, I WAS REALLY ANGRY and i FINALLY DUMPED her after 3 months.
Few weeks later some people told me, that she complained about my behaviour "cause i treated her badly".

I am very very sure that meanwhile my former girlfriend at the age of 41 and her 33 years old sister are somewhere high class professional Golddiggers.
Dear Reader, don´t be fooled by beauty!

This is the same everywhere, by degrees. Ultimately a normal 31 year old guy with a 20 year old 9, will only be able to maintain that relationship through leverage, be it finance, lifestyle or high social status.

I guess that period of time (late 90s with EE women) inflated things a bit, but it just underlines the fact that you shouldnt try to artificially go far beyond your own SMV, at least for long term relationships.
 
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