The Catalyst said:...
Yes that is true. However if government didn't force war/communism which created decades-long economic ruin then the Hungarians around me would be way richer than they are now, so instead of worrying about 180 euros here or there working for scraps I'd be sitting in a cushy job :s
You're making the classic libertarian mistake of assigning "government" as some kind of sentient alien entity that created itself and enforces itself on hapless humans. Nope. Communism may have been foisted on the Hungarians by outside forces but those forces were human beings too. Then the Hungarians chose suffering rather than rebellion. Human choices with human consequences.
You will realize that the idea of libertarianism is a joke when you accept that we are living in it right now. Right now, as of this second, everyone can get up in the morning and do whatever they please. However the vast majority of people all decide to go along with yesterday's tentative agreement (including enforcement of code breaches) to carry on as per usual because it's generally in their best interests.
The standard reply from libertarians is that the threat of violence is the only thing keeping them from doing otherwise but they can't really explain why they're entitled to the childish notion of operating without limitations in a society that has been built from the ground up on rules and regulations. They figure they were born here and now nobody is allowed to simply kick them out or force them into line.
If they were able to take their ideology to its reasonable conclusion then they would have to ask "Hungary" or "New Zealand" to be allowed entry into the tribal lands only without any rules or limitations (except for the fabled non-aggression principle of course). Inevitably they would be told to piss off back into their canoe and get out of territorial waters.
Stay on tribal lands, accept tribal rules. This applies especially to you since you have gone out of your way to leave your tribe and ridicule them while absent from their lands. In a truly libertarian society they would revoke your citizenship and treat you as a hostile foreigner. And when you tried to go back "home" they would inquire about what part of New Zealand you owned, and finding you owned no land they would tell you that you have no right to be anywhere in the country. Make sense? You can't be on land you don't own unless you have permission from the owners. The only permission you have currently is the permission of the government formed by the people of New Zealand as per your (self derided) birthright. You have the wonderful PRIVILEGE by act of government to navigate unmolested around lands that you do not specifically own without being rousted off at gunpoint and marched into the sea or contracted to serve a master in order to gain temporary permission to exist on his land holdings.
tldr Most libertarians are like spoiled children who live in a habitat created by others but who think they're not even obligated to conform to the principles that built that habitat much less wash the dishes for free or babysit their kid sister once in a while.
p.s. this has become a massive derail. If you want me to debate libertarianism you should create a thread.