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News: Random pedestrian selflessly gives life to forward science of autonomous cars.
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<blockquote data-quote="BlueMark" data-source="post: 1179233" data-attributes="member: 13298"><p>This thread has really gone off the rails (hah) into straw man and conspiracy territory. People have raised valid concerns about surveillance, control, computer failure, etc.</p><p></p><p>I get that AI might not be the best solution. I agree that there's potential for abuse. So I'm not going to defend AI driving here.</p><p></p><p>But keep a few things in perspective.</p><p></p><p>(1) Urban areas in the US, where most of the job opportunities are, have shown their inability to handle population growth. This is due to poor planning.</p><p></p><p>Autonomous cars are offered as a solution to the problem. They are hardly the best.</p><p></p><p>IMO the proper solution is to transition toward more high-density developments along existing rail transit lines. But there is no political will to do that.</p><p></p><p>(2) Road traffic causes so many fatalities and injuries. Let's take a look at Singapore (subway-oriented) vs Arizona (car-oriented).</p><p>Population: 5.6 million vs 6.9 million (4.6 in Phoenix metro)</p><p>Number of traffic deaths: 197 (2013) vs 962 (2016)</p><p></p><p>In Arizona, there were 196 pedestrian deaths alone, almost as many as the total road deaths in Singapore. So many people have died in Arizona because the state's major city is completely car-oriented. People have no choice but to drive.</p><p></p><p>Hell, there were <a href="https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-breaking/2018/03/13/arizona-official-10-pedestrian-deaths-week-show-major-crisis/422808002/" target="_blank">10 pedestrian deaths in Arizona</a> in a week shortly before this incident. Where's the outrage over that?</p><p></p><p>Let me say this again if it's not clear: <strong>The real root cause behind road traffic deaths is the orientation of our transportation system in favor of road transit</strong>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As both a car owner and a gun owner, I am hardly the domesticated city dweller that you have in mind. I don't like a lot of things about my current city; in fact I hate those things. But the city is where it's at for access to job opportunities and women.</p><p></p><p>I used to live in the suburbs. I experienced firsthand how dehumanizing the commute was, especially after taking subways in Europe and Asia and realizing that it didn't have to be that way. I felt a lot more like a corporate pet back then, compared to being able to take the subway to work today.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nobody is trying to force autonomous cars into rural places. I don't have a problem with dense cities or rural places. It's the low-density, high-sprawl, high-traffic cities/suburbs like Los Angeles that I can't stand.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Chill out. I am very well aware of these types. They are the result of left-wing policies and lax policing, but don't blame public transportation for it. You won't see much of that in Japan or Singapore.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Modern American car culture is a mid 20th century invention, where the costs are hidden from you -- taxes to pay for roads, laws that mandate parking spaces, etc. You don't get those things for free; of course it's different if you're living in a rural area with private roads (and more power to you if you do). Don't conflate it with freedom and the Second Amendment.</p><p></p><p>BTW the Swiss take their guns onto public transit. <a href="http://archive.is/6G4fY" target="_blank">http://archive.is/6G4fY</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BlueMark, post: 1179233, member: 13298"] This thread has really gone off the rails (hah) into straw man and conspiracy territory. People have raised valid concerns about surveillance, control, computer failure, etc. I get that AI might not be the best solution. I agree that there's potential for abuse. So I'm not going to defend AI driving here. But keep a few things in perspective. (1) Urban areas in the US, where most of the job opportunities are, have shown their inability to handle population growth. This is due to poor planning. Autonomous cars are offered as a solution to the problem. They are hardly the best. IMO the proper solution is to transition toward more high-density developments along existing rail transit lines. But there is no political will to do that. (2) Road traffic causes so many fatalities and injuries. Let's take a look at Singapore (subway-oriented) vs Arizona (car-oriented). Population: 5.6 million vs 6.9 million (4.6 in Phoenix metro) Number of traffic deaths: 197 (2013) vs 962 (2016) In Arizona, there were 196 pedestrian deaths alone, almost as many as the total road deaths in Singapore. So many people have died in Arizona because the state's major city is completely car-oriented. People have no choice but to drive. Hell, there were [url=https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-breaking/2018/03/13/arizona-official-10-pedestrian-deaths-week-show-major-crisis/422808002/]10 pedestrian deaths in Arizona[/url] in a week shortly before this incident. Where's the outrage over that? Let me say this again if it's not clear: [b]The real root cause behind road traffic deaths is the orientation of our transportation system in favor of road transit[/b]. As both a car owner and a gun owner, I am hardly the domesticated city dweller that you have in mind. I don't like a lot of things about my current city; in fact I hate those things. But the city is where it's at for access to job opportunities and women. I used to live in the suburbs. I experienced firsthand how dehumanizing the commute was, especially after taking subways in Europe and Asia and realizing that it didn't have to be that way. I felt a lot more like a corporate pet back then, compared to being able to take the subway to work today. Nobody is trying to force autonomous cars into rural places. I don't have a problem with dense cities or rural places. It's the low-density, high-sprawl, high-traffic cities/suburbs like Los Angeles that I can't stand. Chill out. I am very well aware of these types. They are the result of left-wing policies and lax policing, but don't blame public transportation for it. You won't see much of that in Japan or Singapore. Modern American car culture is a mid 20th century invention, where the costs are hidden from you -- taxes to pay for roads, laws that mandate parking spaces, etc. You don't get those things for free; of course it's different if you're living in a rural area with private roads (and more power to you if you do). Don't conflate it with freedom and the Second Amendment. BTW the Swiss take their guns onto public transit. [URL]http://archive.is/6G4fY[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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