NFL player kills girlfriend, drives to stadium and commits suicide

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Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Giovonny said:
Samseau said:
high status guys > fucked up guys > normal guys

I don't know, I think you are giving "fucked guys" too much credit. "Fucked up" guys are often fuck ups and can't keep their shit together long enough to maintain a consistent flow of cute girls.

That's not what I mean by fucked up. I'm talking about guys who use people for their own ends, i.e. evil men. They will do whatever it takes to get what they want. Criminals of all stripes.

I think.. having game > being fucked up
.
Would you be better with girls if you were more fucked up?

That's part of the process to become an efficient player. You deliberately make yourself evil in your dealings with women in order to acquire sex from them more efficiently.

I don't even bat an eye when I dump girls I've been fucking for weeks.

I find it interesting that you.. a) think all girls are sluts and b) say girls like fucked up guys. It seems such a nihilistic view for a Christian to have???

"The truth will set you free."
 

Timoteo

Crow
This tragedy brought back the whole Steve McNair murder/suicide for me. I've been observing how the media has been trying to handle this, and you can see them fumbling around with it. How do you honor what was obviously a troubled young man, yet also take into account that he was also a murderer? How do his teammates and loved ones separate the person they love from the person who, as the last two actions he took on this Earth, murdered the mother of his child, then took his own life? In the case of McNair, he was the murder victim, yet the media struggled with his loss because it came at the hands of his 20 year-old mistress. They were forced to make a moral judgment, almost saying in the process that he was less of a victim because his adultery placed him in the position to allow it to happen. His murderer was painted as a victim also. I didn't know much about Javon Belcher, but I had followed McNair since college, and by all accounts, he lived an exemplary public life. He was one of my favorite players. He was a leader by all accounts. He organized relieve efforts and delivery of supplies to his home Gulf region after hurricanes. He was a great teammate. He opened his own restaurant, largely to serve college kids that didn't have a lot of money. He was there himself, every day with an apron on, working and interacting. But he was also cheating on his wife, with a waitress from another restaurant where he went with his family (the chick actually served him and his family). He ended up being defined by the way his life ended, not how he lived it.
 

Giovonny

Crow
Gold Member
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
But Gio, none of this solves the primary issue.

Oh, whats the primary issue?

I didn't understand your post?

Are you saying "evil" guys have game? Or, that girls like "evil" guys. Or, that girls are "evil"???

I would disagree with all of that and just say girls like guys who are good looking, cool, charming, and with high social value.

The only girl that will take a evil guy over a high status, good looking, charming guy is a fucked girl.
 

theIVth

 
Banned
i have a homeboy that I grew up with that was my ace. Pulled and smashed hoes together and everything. Was one of the first guys that I ever encountered that was totally fearless when it came to hollering at a chick. Was witty as hell and just all around a cool guy.

Somewhere along the line my homey got diagnosed with schizophrenia and is crazy as hell.

I think this dude more than likely was just mentally ill.
 

Giovonny

Crow
Gold Member
Samseau said:
I'm talking about guys who use people for their own ends, i.e. evil men. They will do whatever it takes to get what they want. Criminals of all stripes.

So, you're saying "evil men" and criminals have better game then normal, well adjusted guys?

I don't know. I have known quite a few criminals and most of them had weak game. They are often so dysfunctional and delusional that they can barely function in normal society. In and out of jail, on and off of drugs, unstable relationships, low quality of life. They are mostly losers.

Again, I think you are giving these guys too much credit. Most of them are losers who can't pull quality women. They can only pull other fucked up chicks.

Girls want to move up in society, not down.

Having status and game is better then being a criminal.

Go to a prison at visiting time, you will see very few cute girls but you will see a bunch of fatties!
 

jammer

 
Banned
Timoteo said:
This tragedy brought back the whole Steve McNair murder/suicide for me. I've been observing how the media has been trying to handle this, and you can see them fumbling around with it. How do you honor what was obviously a troubled young man, yet also take into account that he was also a murderer? How do his teammates and loved ones separate the person they love from the person who, as the last two actions he took on this Earth, murdered the mother of his child, then took his own life? In the case of McNair, he was the murder victim, yet the media struggled with his loss because it came at the hands of his 20 year-old mistress. They were forced to make a moral judgment, almost saying in the process that he was less of a victim because his adultery placed him in the position to allow it to happen. His murderer was painted as a victim also. I didn't know much about Javon Belcher, but I had followed McNair since college, and by all accounts, he lived an exemplary public life. He was one of my favorite players. He was a leader by all accounts. He organized relieve efforts and delivery of supplies to his home Gulf region after hurricanes. He was a great teammate. He opened his own restaurant, largely to serve college kids that didn't have a lot of money. He was there himself, every day with an apron on, working and interacting. But he was also cheating on his wife, with a waitress from another restaurant where he went with his family (the chick actually served him and his family). He ended up being defined by the way his life ended, not how he lived it.
Same thing happened with Chris Benoit
 

Enigma

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Jovan Belcher's girlfriend was leaving him and going to get as much money as possible

This was the result of a long term conflict. I'm referring to the rumors that this was solely related to an argument about her attending the Trey Songs concert... It wasn't. Kasi had left and taken Zoe (their daughter) to a relatives house without his consent and refused to come home. In addition to that she made it clear that she was leaving and wild contact a lawyer to "get as much money as possible". Her friends are speaking to the media so, I only feel write providing his perspective to this situation. It had little, if anything to do with one isolated argument..

Exactly.

[On the Thursday night after the Nov. 12 Chiefs-Steelers Monday Night Football game] he came home and Kasi had taken the baby (Zoe) to Jamaal Charles residence because she is cousins with Jamaals wife Whitney. They had been arguing for quite a few weeks prior which was nothing new. The majority of the arguments were due to Kasi failing college classes that Jovan was paying for and quitting her retail job where she worked two 4 hour shifts a week. From my perception, she was lazy and after learning she was introduced to him through her cousin who is married to Jamaal I can only assume she was after money. I'm in no way trying to defame her character, however; she is the catalyst to this incident. With friends/associates of hers speaking out to the media and saying that this incident stemmed from am argument about her staying out late for a concert, I have to disagree and provide the full spectrum. Jovan loved her and more importantly loved Zoe. After their argument and she left with the baby he convinced her to move back in for the sake of the baby. As far as what led to this tragic incident, I would say a combination of alcohol, concussions, and prescription drugs put him in a state that he would not otherwise be in.

When it comes to prescription medication it is unclear from my perspective whether it was diagnosed and authorized by the team or not. However I know he was under the influence of narcotics for pain and I'm sure the toxicology report will reflect this. However, Jovan drank ALOT. On a nightly basis. This is not a mystery as he did so in public and private.

When it comes to his concussions; if you review the footage of the Cincinnati game he took a few hits to the head directly [...] he was dazed and was suffering from short term memory loss. He could not remember the events that had taken place prior to that game or what he had said to get Kasi to return home.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Oh, whats the primary issue?

I didn't understand your post?

Are you saying "evil" guys have game? Or, that girls like "evil" guys. Or, that girls are "evil"???

Close but no cigar. My moral of the story is that women have created a society where being an evil man is (either intentionally or indirectly through recklessness) strongly rewarded.

Might not matter for any of us personally, but this is at odds with anything that I consider civilized, let alone sustainable.
 

painter

Woodpecker
I thought Bob Costas looked like a real douchebag with his rant during the Sunday Night Game. Whatever point he wanted to make it wasn't the place for some half baked gun control theory. Then he goes on talk shows and says he didn't have enough time in that format to make his point. Shut the fuck up about politics during the game!
 

rearman

Pelican
painter said:
I thought Bob Costas looked like a real douchebag with his rant during the Sunday Night Game. Whatever point he wanted to make it wasn't the place for some half baked gun control theory. Then he goes on talk shows and says he didn't have enough time in that format to make his point. Shut the fuck up about politics during the game!
Plus his statistics are all right from the Brady Campaign's distorted and misleading data. Wouldn't surprise me if he consulted with them before going on talk shows.

Interesting to see the dichotomy between the liberal sports media (anyone catch Whitlock comparing the NRA to the KKK?) and the NFL players, many of whom estimate that 75% of the players own guns.
 

Timoteo

Crow
painter said:
I thought Bob Costas looked like a real douchebag with his rant during the Sunday Night Game. Whatever point he wanted to make it wasn't the place for some half baked gun control theory. Then he goes on talk shows and says he didn't have enough time in that format to make his point. Shut the fuck up about politics during the game!

I disagree here. Whether you disagree with what he said or not, I don't think it was the wrong place for it. This incident was intertwined with football. It was the lead sports story. You can't separate the two. This wasn't "politics." It was human interest, that involved a football player. A football player that went to his place of employment, the practice facility, and offed himself in front of his coach and general manager. Disagree with his point, but to say that it wasn't the right place to make his point is being dishonest. This forum is about "game," but guys go on political rants in any number of threads that don't have anything to do with politics per se. If Costas had said something like "Guns don't kill, people do," the many that are criticizing him for using his sports platform to make this statement would instead be patting him on the back, and wouldn't be complaining about it being inappropriate for him to say it.
 

Timoteo

Crow
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...urrender_several_firearms_last_month/12382630

Baltimore Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs had to surrender several firearms last month as part of a court order related to a domestic dispute, the Baltimore Sun reported on Thursday.

According to the Sun, Suggs and his girlfriend, Candace Williams, are involved in a custody dispute over their two children. The report says Suggs filed a custody complaint on Nov. 19. Williams filed a complaint sometime afterward. A court order led to Suggs surrendering the guns.

“The guns were surrendered over to police pursuant to the court order, and they [Suggs and Williams] are resolving their issues,” Suggs’ attorney told the Sun. “All I can tell you is that he’s in rightful and lawful possession of the guns but turned them over pursuant to the requirements of the law.”

The Baltimore Sun says two 911 calls were received from Suggs’ address on Nov. 21, but that no reports were taken.

The two have a history of domestic problems.

Williams filed a complaint against Suggs in December 2009 alleging domestic violence. The complaint arose in Williams’ application for a protective order. She received the protective order but rescinded it and a $70 million lawsuit a month later as the two attempted to reconcile.


As Suggs' lawyer stated, he was in completely lawful possession of these guns, but the judge looked at this situation and thought "domestic issues + guns = potential for someone to get shot." It was purely a preventive measure. These domestic issues can be EXPLOSIVE. Many cops will tell you they hate getting these calls because they never know what kind of shit they're walking into.
 

Cincinnatus

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Timoteo said:
Many cops will tell you they hate getting these calls because they never know what kind of shit they're walking into.

Cops in my neighborhood always show up for domestic calls as a pair, never alone, because like you said, they never know what's really going on.

One of my friend's neighbos is a cop, said cop has told me more than once he can't stand domestic calls.
 

beta_plus

Pelican
So from the sounds of it she threatened to take his kid and his money away from him and he snapped.

It's depressing how predictable this stuff becomes once you understand the conflict between hypergamy and paternal love.
 

rearman

Pelican
beta_plus said:
It's depressing how predictable this stuff becomes once you understand the conflict between hypergamy and paternal love.
And the love women have for violent men.

On another forum I'm on, one of the members says he went to high school with Belcher and the guy was apparently a thug back then.
 

painter

Woodpecker
I agree with the point that it makes sense to say something like "Our hearts go out to the murder victim and the families involved." But to go off on a gun control rant was inappropriate and insulting to the victim and her family. To say guns are evil and nobody would have died if guns were illegal is about as naive as it gets.

Now if Costas said people flip out and do stupid, irrational things and that murder and suicide are not the answer to domestic problems I would've respected that. He's a talking head who reads shit off a teleprompter and adds commentary during the football game, not an arbiter of national morality. I lost a lot of respect for the guy.
 

Timoteo

Crow
Costas is known for this. He was the guy that acknowledged the anniversary of the Munich Olympic massacre, when the Olympic Committee refused to make a public acknowledgement. You could say that it had no place, but politics and world affairs have always been intertwined with the Olympics. Again, it isn't about agreement. I appreciate Costas' willingness to put himself out there, instead of spouting the cliched bullshit most talking heads do. He's willing to express an OPINION. Expressing an opinion isn't anointing yourself as an arbiter of anything. He's actually far more than a talking head reading off of a teleprompter. Costas is a JOURNALIST. Just because his area is sports doesn't make him less so, and it doesn't mean he should always limit his positions to just sports. Bryant Gumbel, another outspoken journalist that started in sports, moved into news media, and then came back to sports, is another that does this often. He takes strong positions on issues that others in the sports media avoid.
 

painter

Woodpecker
Good point. I can see how my other post looked like I thought nothing should be said and let's roll the highlight reel. I totally agree it should have been addressed but I thought the way he did it was disrespectful to the family of the girl that got murdered. His last point was basically saying your daughter would still be alive if there were no guns which is naive.

Personally I'm against most people having handguns, they're only purpose is for killing but a lot of people do require them for personal safety and protection. I've got shotguns and rifles and that's all I need for recreation or protection but I'm not in a situation where close quarter combat will ever come up. If I was I probably would have a handgun.
 

Timoteo

Crow
painter said:
Good point. I can see how my other post looked like I thought nothing should be said and let's roll the highlight reel. I totally agree it should have been addressed but I thought the way he did it was disrespectful to the family of the girl that got murdered. His last point was basically saying your daughter would still be alive if there were no guns which is naive.

Personally I'm against most people having handguns, they're only purpose is for killing but a lot of people do require them for personal safety and protection. I've got shotguns and rifles and that's all I need for recreation or protection but I'm not in a situation where close quarter combat will ever come up. If I was I probably would have a handgun.

I disagree with his speech being disrespectful. How is it disrespectful to say that the girl would be alive if Jovan Belcher didn't have access to a gun? Yes, Costas was making a sweeping point regarding gun control, but Whitlock also made the same point specifically about this incident - if Belcher had not had a gun at that moment, this girl would be alive. I see no fault with that opinion. Can any of us be 100% sure she'd still be alive if he didn't have the gun? Of course not. But we know for sure she's dead because he did have that gun. At that flashpoint of anger, it can be over in a second. If you see my above post about Terrell Suggs, that's the exact scenario the judge envisioned when he had Suggs turn in HIS guns. The couple had a history of volitile behavior, so he made a judgment that that wasn't the ideal atmosphere to have guns around. The concern isn't just that HE might use the gun, but SHE might also. In 2000, Carolina Panthers running back Fred Lane was shot dead by his wife, Deidra. She ended up pleading guilty to voluntary manslaughter, probably for his insurance money. Of course, she claimed he was abusing her, but she was actually laying in wait for him to come home, and planned to off him. I believe the moment he walked into the bedroom, she shot him twice. She got 8 years, and got out in '09.

I don't question that some want or need guns for personal protection. I'm not anti-gun by any measure, and tons of athletes have them because they're marks (I can think of two NBA players in Chicago, Eddy Curry and Antoine Walker, a former player, that were victims of home invasion robberies), but some kind of reason has to be applied. On the respect for victims families issue, I recall the NRA purposely holding a rally in a city that had just experienced a child accidentally killing himself playing with his dad's gun. How's THAT for disrespect for the victim and his family?
 
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