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<blockquote data-quote="stugatz" data-source="post: 1479593" data-attributes="member: 11515">Well, on the Israeli side of it, where are they supposed to fire their rockets to stop the incoming attacks?&nbsp; Do they just shrug their shoulders and allow the population to be at risk of getting on the wrong side of an RPG?My main reason that I don&#039;t like the Palestinians is because the only way they can fight is by intentionally targeting civilians and innocent people (Munich massacre, Achille Lauro hijacking, etc.).&nbsp; I understand they don&#039;t have a military and you have to use whatever leverage you have, but I chafe when I hear stories about old women or children getting stabbed in the head by agitators in settlement areas.&nbsp; (I do have my own mixed feelings here - the settlements are a huge provocation, and Israel is horrible for letting them happen.&nbsp; I also know that I can&#039;t talk too much smack about targeting civilians, as the United States did plenty of that in the Civil War and WWII.&nbsp; I still don&#039;t like it when it&#039;s used as a common tactic, though, and can&#039;t see anyone doing so as sympathetic.)I also really have a hard time being coherent on this subject, as I think that Israel has no real rights to this land.&nbsp; They lost it in the 100s AD, that was nearly 2000 years before the creation of the modern state of Israel (and THAT was created through overt political pressure and terrorism).&nbsp; However, since they exist, and they&#039;ve existed for nearly 100 years at this point...I look at it as a foregone conclusion.Oh, I admit that wasn&#039;t the best comparison - I just think that African-Americans could be described as stateless people, since they never really assimilated, and as a result I don&#039;t really consider them Americans.&nbsp; (They&#039;re not really Africans either - I can tell you that some black peers of mine were looked at with contempt when they met Africans in their travels abroad.)&nbsp; What&#039;s happening in Israel is de facto apartheid.I ought to visit there, to be honest, I&#039;ve always wanted to.&nbsp; I&#039;ll check out the documentary.(Thank you for engaging me on this.&nbsp; You&#039;re talking to a recovering Israel fanboy, and living in the Middle East cured me of that, at least.&nbsp; I just tend to see either two sides portrayed - the neocon &quot;Israel can never do any wrong, and you&#039;re an anti-Semite for thinking so&quot; side, and the &quot;Palestinians are oppressed angels that can never do any wrong&quot; side.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="stugatz, post: 1479593, member: 11515"] Well, on the Israeli side of it, where are they supposed to fire their rockets to stop the incoming attacks? Do they just shrug their shoulders and allow the population to be at risk of getting on the wrong side of an RPG? My main reason that I don't like the Palestinians is because the only way they can fight is by intentionally targeting civilians and innocent people (Munich massacre, Achille Lauro hijacking, etc.). I understand they don't have a military and you have to use whatever leverage you have, but I chafe when I hear stories about old women or children getting stabbed in the head by agitators in settlement areas. (I do have my own mixed feelings here - the settlements are a huge provocation, and Israel is horrible for letting them happen. I also know that I can't talk too much smack about targeting civilians, as the United States did plenty of that in the Civil War and WWII. I still don't like it when it's used as a common tactic, though, and can't see anyone doing so as sympathetic.) I also really have a hard time being coherent on this subject, as I think that Israel has no real rights to this land. They lost it in the 100s AD, that was nearly 2000 years before the creation of the modern state of Israel (and THAT was created through overt political pressure and terrorism). However, since they exist, and they've existed for nearly 100 years at this point...I look at it as a foregone conclusion. Oh, I admit that wasn't the best comparison - I just think that African-Americans could be described as stateless people, since they never really assimilated, and as a result I don't really consider them Americans. (They're not really Africans either - I can tell you that some black peers of mine were looked at with contempt when they met Africans in their travels abroad.) What's happening in Israel is de facto apartheid. I ought to visit there, to be honest, I've always wanted to. I'll check out the documentary. (Thank you for engaging me on this. You're talking to a recovering Israel fanboy, and living in the Middle East cured me of that, at least. I just tend to see either two sides portrayed - the neocon "Israel can never do any wrong, and you're an anti-Semite for thinking so" side, and the "Palestinians are oppressed angels that can never do any wrong" side.) [/QUOTE]

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