Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europeans"

[Lizard King]

I think the Indians integrate more completely than the Eastern Euros.

The Indians have family roots and businesses in the UK. They already have a tradition of immigration to the UK.

The Eastern Euros are very different. Many don't bother to speak English. They are all very insular.

They are hard workers, no doubt about that, but that aspect of them is actually detrimental to the UK in some ways, as many of them are taking most of the money they earn back home.

The most noticeable difference is the attitude towards the natives. Indians on the whole are incredibly polite and make their gratitude known. Eastern Europeans in the UK are often very rude, or will completely ignore natives as if they are above having anything to do with them. There are exceptions but they are few.

 

[floor7]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

....

How does an Indian fit in to Madagascar better than UK?

I didn't say that. I said that while I think there are some countries, like the UK, for which eastern European immigrants are a better fit than Indians, there are other countries, like Singapore and Madagascar to give random examples, for which Indian immigrants are probably a better fit than E. European immigrants.

Anyway, listen man, I think we've both presented our stances on this issue, on a high level. Playing rhetorical pong with ever longer walls of text isn't going to add much value at this point. We're just going to have to agree to disagree over the extent to which shared cultural and ethnic identity matters in selecting immigrants who are a "good fit."

Peace.

If you have ever lived in or visited the UK for a long time you will realize that this concept of 'pan-white' or 'judeo-christian' (which are really American rhertorical concepts) is not nearly the same in the UK. WalterBlack has it nailed on.

And that's where your argument fails. You are ascribing a pretty American standard and view to a native British person just because they happen to look 'white' in the American sense. A british person on the other hand does not really feel such racial/ethnic 'kinship' with an EE.

EE's in the UK are looked upon the same as many Hispanics/Mexicans are in the US.

Indian people integrate better into british society than EE's and they are of higher economic standing.

I think your initial point, if taken in a vacuum, is a valid hypothesis but it fails when applied in this particular case and the empirics tease that out.

 

[gusfring]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

Farage has to do better on immigration policy if he wants my vote.

UNLIMITED immigration for slim, attractive, single women.
- A panel of men will assess their photos, which will be as tightly regulated as passports, no duckface or myspace angles to hide fatness.
- BMI limits apply, with regular health checks providing advice on nutrition and portion control for those who slip.

Completely agree. In this new era of full blown feminism, lets flip the immigration issue. Lets ban all male immigration and just hand out free visas to hot women. Lets just make it one huge taco fest.

Because Taco fest >>>> Saussage fest. It solves two issues at once. First of all the insatiable feminists and other groups are happy. They get more of their kind. Secondly, most importantly its going to swing the ratios in favor of dong owners.

As to the "hotness" factor lets ditch the BMI thing and check them for herpes...I mean what worthile hotgirl is std free.To top it off, we say no marrying the locals. You can screw around all you want but, no you cant marry anyone.

 

[Constitution45]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

They do fit in yeah.

The gripe is more economical; they're basically better at just about every entry level job than our lazy useless natives.

They have brought a fair amount of crime with them too and also exploit our benefits systems to the max (which is entirely our own fault for being so lax on our own people).

Essentially since Thatcher, those who were dynamic and innovative in the business or work world in general. Either got themselves established in high positions or became 'international'. They are still around, but a lot of the British population broke off and got weaker, mentally, emotionally and physically. Which you can see with our obesity rates and what passes as television by popular demand. `

Eastern Europeans have a different mentality altogether. They are mostly economically minded and don't take on that weak mentality which we have in the U.K. They see how things are and say them on the most part. However you are starting to see changes to EE university students who are starting to enter the professional world either in London or any other financial hub.

 

[Constitution45]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

Farage has to do better on immigration policy if he wants my vote.

UNLIMITED immigration for slim, attractive, single women.
- A panel of men will assess their photos, which will be as tightly regulated as passports, no duckface or myspace angles to hide fatness.
- BMI limits apply, with regular health checks providing advice on nutrition and portion control for those who slip.

Completely agree. In this new era of full blown feminism, lets flip the immigration issue. Lets ban all male immigration and just hand out free visas to hot women. Lets just make it one huge taco fest.

Because Taco fest >>>> Saussage fest. It solves two issues at once. First of all the insatiable feminists and other groups are happy. They get more of their kind. Secondly, most importantly its going to swing the ratios in favor of dong owners.

As to the "hotness" factor lets ditch the BMI thing and check them for herpes...I mean what worthile hotgirl is std free.To top it off, we say no marrying the locals. You can screw around all you want but, no you cant marry anyone.

Yeah but we all know that feminism is essentially a sexual trade union for ugly women. These types hate competition, especially from attractive girls who are nice people.

 

[Fast Eddie]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

If you have ever lived in or visited the UK for a long time you will realize that this concept of 'pan-white' or 'judeo-christian' (which are really American rhertorical concepts) is not nearly the same in the UK. WalterBlack has it nailed on.

And that's where your argument fails. You are ascribing a pretty American standard and view to a native British person just because they happen to look 'white' in the American sense. A british person on the other hand does not really feel such racial/ethnic 'kinship' with an EE.

EE's in the UK are looked upon the same as many Hispanics/Mexicans are in the US.

Indian people integrate better into british society than EE's and they are of higher economic standing.

I think your initial point, if taken in a vacuum, is a valid hypothesis but it fails when applied in this particular case and the empirics tease that out.

Haha, I had told myself that I said what I wanted to say and would not be further commenting in this thread, but it seems my arguments are being misinterpreted in a fundamental way, so it's worth it to throw in this last comment to clear it up.

So here is the thing: we're discussing who are better immigrants to the UK, not who British people think are the better immigrants. I know they drive on the wrong side of the road over there, but 2+2 still equals 4, even in the UK. For all I care, Brits could say they prefer evil brain eating blood-sucking worms from Alpha Centauri over eastern Europeans, and it would make no difference to me. I'd laugh and say "nah, Eastern Europeans will be better for you guys than blood sucking worms from Alpha Centauri. Just take my word for it."

Whether British people subscribe to the notion of a "Western Civilization"or a "Judeo-Christian-tradition" or even a "white people" category is completely irrelevant. There exist blank-slatists but there exists no blank-slate. The entirety of recorded history tells us that there will be friction whenever you have people who have different cultures and appearances occupying the same territory. That's just a fact, and its factuality is completely independent of how British people feel about it. I don't like gravity keeping me down but that doesn't mean it's not there, and all that.

Anyway, that's my argument. It may or may not be correct, but the point is that it's completely agnostic of any British idiosyncracies of looking at the world. If the prevailing wisdom in Britain held that Islamic fanatics from Boko Haram are the best immigrants, would that make it so? Of course not. Objective reality is ascertained by examining empirical evidence, not people's (often ludicrous) beliefs or fancies.

[Edit, and completely off topic from the rest of this post, but when I say "Eastern Europeans" I obviously exclude Gypsies from that group. Yes, they currently dwell mainly in eastern Europe, but it would be rather perfidious to use them as a weapon against Eastern Europeans. Especially in the context of this thread, which is basically discussing the merits of Indians vs Eastern Europeans as immigrants. As we all know, the gypsies, or "Roma," are Indians who emigrated to Europe over a thousand years ago and even after more than a millennium are still not integrated and are a scourge to their host societies. I'm not saying the gypsies should be used as an argument against Indian immigrants, but it would likewise be rather strange to have them weigh against Eastern Europeans. ]

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

Anyway, that's my argument. It may or may not be correct, but the point is that it's completely agnostic of any British idiosyncracies of looking at the world. If the prevailing wisdom in Britain held that Islamic fanatics from Boko Haram are the best immigrants, would that make it so? Of course not. Objective reality is ascertained by examining empirical evidence, not people's (often ludicrous) beliefs or fancies.

Honestly I vowed to not comment on that thread since it's a potential powder keg, but I will try to keep it civil and also remind that spiritually I see everyone identical.

Still in terms of cultures and civilizations there are differences.

1. Indians emigrating to Europe / turban wearing Sikh included are of higher education and they do exceedingly well - if they intermarry, then they integrate excellently also. If they don't intermarry with the local population, then many do create a society within a society. I dated an Indian girl in the UK some years ago and met a few guys. Also plenty of people of my kind of spiritual movement in the UK are Indians - cool people too. (Also 2 acquaintances of mine are Indian Alphas - one living in Hungary and another model-looks in Austria. The model guy has a blonde mother as his father became wealthy and got himself a blonde bombshell - heh. The Hungarian Indian Alpha is fucking 20-somethings in Budapest while being 44.)

2. EE is not some kind of monolithic bloc. You simply cannot compare Romanian gypsies to Polish call-center workers or construction engineers. Granted - plenty of low-level Polish people went to the UK & Ireland, but also quite a few highly educated specialists - I would estimate it personally to be 50-50. 50% low-brow vs. 50% medium to high brow. Regardless of the percentages practically 100% of those will be full British in the second generation - you will not even see a difference to the local people - sometimes you don't even see one in the first generation. I doubt that this can be said the same for Indian immigrants - all this despite the fact that Indians in the UK do certainly much better financially than the average EE.

So integration is truly a matter of definition.

That said you certainly have different problems with some Romanian, Albanian, Pakistani, Somali immigrants. Not all are created equal and integrate similarly.

African Christians, Persians (yes - despite many being Muslims those that emigrate are often long way off from their Arab brothers), Jewish, most EE - from the Baltics down to Serbia - all of them integrate exceedingly well (Romania & Albania are special cases and usually they cause the most difficulties). We know it from the experiences in Germany, Sweden, Austria where many came to those countries in the 1980s to 1990s.

Frankly I find the comments by Nigel Farage - if he said something like that at all - completely counter-productive. Of course if a country was more sane and prosperous, then it could and should select it's immigrants more consciously taking a closer look at nationalities which have been proven to be problematic for lack of a better word.

Simply put - you select and pick and choose what nationalities you prefer, if monetary policy was highly expansive (and best interest free), everyone was getting wealthy, then there would be little reason as to not invite more people in who have been proven to be somewhat positive to a country.

But that is simply not happening - immigration is a weapon and UKIP won't change much - even if they come to power which they probably won't.

So essentially for us debating what nationality or race is "better for Britain" is superfluous - at current economic climates probably none is. Otherwise you simply have to take a look, read some news, compare your own experiences in life and then you see who you prefer to live with.

And despite our different nationalities and races here I can virtually guarantee you that we all meeting on the street would instantly recognize a kindred soul going along perfectly well with each other - regardless of race, religion, heritage.

I personally have friends from Norway, Germany, Austria, USA, Afghanistan, Israel, Persia (Iran), Iraq, UK, Singapore etc. I recognize a good person I want to associate with pretty fast. But I also recognize an asshole / someone way too different from me. Unfortunately clever assholes are ruling almost all countries, so that's why we can discuss forever those topics which are served to us only to separate us. All of this won't change much.

I hope this doesn't get me banned. I am writing here almost like a New Age version of the United Nations. If I cannot write it like that then we need to close such threads instantly.

 

[WalterBlack]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

Haha, I had told myself that I said what I wanted to say and would not be further commenting in this thread, but it seems my arguments are being misinterpreted in a fundamental way, so it's worth it to throw in this last comment to clear it up.

So here is the thing: we're discussing who are better immigrants to the UK, not who British people think are the better immigrants. I know they drive on the wrong side of the road over there, but 2+2 still equals 4, even in the UK. For all I care, Brits could say they prefer evil brain eating blood-sucking worms from Alpha Centauri over eastern Europeans, and it would make no difference to me. I'd laugh and say "nah, Eastern Europeans will be better for you guys than blood sucking worms from Alpha Centauri. Just take my word for it."

So British people don’t know what’s best for their country? I was born and raised in UK, my close family is all there and I go there annually. I think I should be allowed to comment on this...

Whether British people subscribe to the notion of a "Western Civilization"or a "Judeo-Christian-tradition" or even a "white people" category is completely irrelevant. There exist blank-slatists but there exists no blank-slate. The entirety of recorded history tells us that there will be friction whenever you have people who have different cultures and appearances occupying the same territory. That's just a fact, and its factuality is completely independent of how British people feel about it. I don't like gravity keeping me down but that doesn't mean it's not there, and all that.

Anyway, that's my argument. It may or may not be correct, but the point is that it's completely agnostic of any British idiosyncracies of looking at the world. If the prevailing wisdom in Britain held that Islamic fanatics from Boko Haram are the best immigrants, would that make it so? Of course not. Objective reality is ascertained by examining empirical evidence, not people's (often ludicrous) beliefs or fancies.

UK Indians have been living in UK in large numbers for 50 years now, and they:

• Have almost zero ethnic tension with the white population
• Don’t make their religions an issue with anybody
• Are very entrepreneurial
• Are highly educated
• Have above average income
• Have very low unemployment rate
• Have very low percentage on welfare
• Have a high marriage rate, and low level of divorce
• Have a very low percentage of single mothers.
• Very low percentage of illegitimate kids. Most kids are born to married parents.
• Have very strong family values
• Have a very low level of criminality
• Have a very low percentage of prison population
• Have a very low level of drug abuse issues

Is that not good enough for an immigrant group? Is 50 years of evidence not good enough?

African Christians, Persians (yes - despite many being Muslims those that emigrate are often long way off from their Arab brothers), Jewish, most EE - from the Baltics down to Serbia - all of them integrate exceedingly well

My list above could apply to these groups too.

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

African Christians, Persians (yes - despite many being Muslims those that emigrate are often long way off from their Arab brothers), Jewish, most EE - from the Baltics down to Serbia - all of them integrate exceedingly well

My list above could apply to these groups too.

I agree. Indians currently living and moving to Britain are integrating exceedingly well and can be certainly in that list. And some from EE certainly don't and Nigel Farage is correct if he meant that.

 

[Fast Eddie]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

@WalterBlack

As I've said multiple times in the past, I am in complete agreement with you that Indians make great immigrants from an economic perspective. Not disputing that whatsoever.

What it their % of the UK population now? It's about 3% right? What happens when they become a significant minority, on the order of 25% or so? Will they be content to passively exist as individuals who happen to be of Indian ancestry, or will they feel like it's in their best interest to represent themselves as an "Indian community" within the larger UK society? Indians are no dummies, and at any rate, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is strength in numbers and organization.

I'm no prophet, but it seems like it's at least reasonable to suppose that in the future as the Indian community grows larger, it will increasingly start to assert itself politically and begin to define its interests as those of the "Indian community". We have seen this over and over again in multicultural societies, whether it is advanced nations like the US where this merely results in sickening racial politics, or in extreme cases, like Rwanda or Serbia where it results in actual violent strife.

The above scenario is again very different from what would happen with E. European immigration. Eastern Europeans will completely melt into the larger UK society. It's ludicrous to consider a political movement arising 50 years from now among a "my grandparents came from Poland" community.

So British people don’t know what’s best for their country?

How about Swedes and Sweden?

 

[WalterBlack]

What it their % of the UK population now? It's about 3% right? What happens when they become a significant minority, on the order of 25% or so? Will they be content to passively exist as individuals who happen to be of Indian ancestry, or will they feel like it's in their best interest to represent themselves as an "Indian community" within the larger UK society? Indians are no dummies, and at any rate, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is strength in numbers and organization.

I'm no prophet, but it seems like it's at least reasonable to suppose that in the future as the Indian community grows larger, it will increasingly start to assert itself politically and begin to define its interests as those of the "Indian community". We have seen this over and over again in multicultural societies, whether it is advanced nations like the US where this merely results in sickening racial politics, or in extreme cases, like Rwanda or Serbia where it results in actual violent strife.

Racial tensions between whites and Indians are in the past, There was a period of low level violence in the 1960s and 70s started by extreme right wing parties but that stopped a long time ago.

There’s almost zero no chance of the whole of UK becoming 25% Indian. There’s pockets of the UK which do have a high percentage of Indians and those areas are doing very well, such as Wembley and Southall.

Immigrants get assimilated over time and there is more intermarriage over the generations. The fastest growing ethnicity is mixed kids.

The 2011 census revealed a country that is decreasingly white and British: England’s ethnic-minority population grew from 9% of the total in 2001 to 14%. But the biggest single increase was in the number of people claiming a mixed-ethnic background. This almost doubled, to around 1.2m. Among children under the age of five, 6% had a mixed background—more than belonged to any other minority group ... Mixed-race children are now about as common in Britain as in America—a country with many more non-whites and a longer history of mass immigration.

Indians, who began arriving in large numbers in the 1960s, were slower to mix. They are now doing so—but along Jewish, rather than Irish, lines. For them, assimilation follows education: according to research by Raya Muttarak and Anthony Heath, Indians with degrees are far more likely to marry whites. Indians are not so much marrying into the white majority as into its suburban middle class, says Shamit Saggar at the University of Essex.

Their children are quietly transforming Britain’s suburbs and commuter towns. Whereas Asians are still concentrated in cities such as Leicester and in London boroughs like Tower Hamlets and Harrow, mixed Asian and white children are widespread (see maps). In Chiltern, an affluent commuter district in Buckinghamshire, 5% of children under five years old were mixed Asian and white in 2011—more than in most of London. Their parents may have met at university or while working in the capital. Within Birmingham, too, mixed Asian and white children are especially common in the largely middle-class white suburbs of Edgbaston, Moseley and Harborne.

[img=595x314]http://cdn.static-economist.com/sit...mages/print-edition/20140208_BRC137.png[/img]

The UK is more concerned with class than race. In UK Asian means Indian/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis. As you can see from the map, their kids are becoming more mixed.

Britain’s newer minorities are blending into the larger population, too, but in ways that defy easy categorisation. Mixed black- African and white children are particularly common in working-class suburbs and commuter towns such as Croydon and Southend-on-Sea, possibly because black Africans are rarely tied to city centres through social-housing tenancies. They are also mixing with new immigrants from continental Europe. Most of the 21,000 children born to Polish mothers in 2012 had Polish fathers; but of the rest, 23% had African or Asian fathers.

Seems like a lot of the Eastern European women mix too.

How about Swedes and Sweden?

I’ve never lived in Sweden, I’m here to comment about UK. From what I can tell, Sweden has a smaller population, so cannot absorb immigrants on the scale of the UK. Also the immigrants to Sweden are mostly not Indian.

 

[Flying Donkey]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

I think the Indians integrate more completely than the Eastern Euros.

The Indians have family roots and businesses in the UK. They already have a tradition of immigration to the UK.

The Eastern Euros are very different. Many don't bother to speak English. They are all very insular.

They are hard workers, no doubt about that, but that aspect of them is actually detrimental to the UK in some ways, as many of them are taking most of the money they earn back home.

The most noticeable difference is the attitude towards the natives. Indians on the whole are incredibly polite and make their gratitude known. Eastern Europeans in the UK are often very rude, or will completely ignore natives as if they are above having anything to do with them. There are exceptions but they are few.

I have some connection, indirectly, with law and order in the uk, and I work in an area with high EE, Indian and Bengali / Pakistani migrants. In my experience, I rarely have professional dealings with the Indian community. In my personal life, I see Indian Doctors, pharmacists and hard working ordinary people. I enjoy visiting their ethnic restaurants on a regular basis. They have been here ages, and hundreds of thousands of their soldiers fought for our country in two world wars. Can't say the same for the Bengali's and Pakistani's. The police stations are very busy dealing with assaults / thefts / drug offences. Far less likely to speak English (not just the older relatives, but the primary immigrant too). Still enjoy their food, but often you cannot consume alcohol with it, but hey, they are entitled to enforce their cultural norms in their restaurants. Don't like the I'm a Muslim and I will kill the White Devil narrative. Hear this often. Farrage is right, the Enemy Within, and we need to deal with. EE's. Mixed feelings. I have met many EE's who work hard and pay taxes, but many more who just come here to get pissed, pass out and claim benefits. I have literally watched some EE's pissing in the street at 8 am in the morning against peoples houses. Inbetween, you have to watch out for ATM fraud and being stabbed by some pissed Lithuanian arsehole. Women are ok though.

Sorry for slightly drunkposting.

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

I have some connection, indirectly, with law and order in the uk, and I work in an area with high EE, Indian and Bengali / Pakistani migrants. In my experience, I rarely have professional dealings with the Indian community. In my personal life, I see Indian Doctors, pharmacists and hard working ordinary people. I enjoy visiting their ethnic restaurants on a regular basis. They have been here ages, and hundreds of thousands of their soldiers fought for our country in two world wars. Can't say the same for the Bengali's and Pakistani's. The police stations are very busy dealing with assaults / thefts / drug offences. Far less likely to speak English (not just the older relatives, but the primary immigrant too). Still enjoy their food, but often you cannot consume alcohol with it, but hey, they are entitled to enforce their cultural norms in their restaurants. Don't like the I'm a Muslim and I will kill the White Devil narrative. Hear this often. Farrage is right, the Enemy Within, and we need to deal with. EE's. Mixed feelings. I have met many EE's who work hard and pay taxes, but many more who just come here to get pissed, pass out and claim benefits. I have literally watched some EE's pissing in the street at 8 am in the morning against peoples houses. Inbetween, you have to watch out for ATM fraud and being stabbed by some pissed Lithuanian arsehole. Women are ok though.

Sorry for slightly drunkposting.

That is certainly true - living in Poland I have heard that after 2006 the country got much safer. 2005 or before people have told me that it was very unsafe in many areas, muggings, rapes, robberies, much more drunks. Now those men who otherwise would be homeless or criminals moved to UK. I would estimate roughly 50.000-100.000 of them among the 500.000-1.5 mio. Polish who moved to UK & Ireland.

And yes - what Walterback said is true - the plan for the immigrants is to interbreed and I guess many will do so. Sometimes it works exceedingly well as in the case of my friend in Austria who turned out to be male 9 with a height of 6'6. Father is butt-ugly and smart and mother is blonde and pretty.

So my tip for Indian brothers: Get yourself some white sugar - results can be interesting.

 

[Saweeep]

One of the big, unspoken taboo subjects in the UK is the NHS resources used combatting Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Bengali mutations due to constant familial inbreeding.

The constant cousin fucking is real and not just a myth.

Nobody will say it openly, but if you speak to any medical professional they will tell you in private. The numbers just don't lie.

It's truly awful for the poor kids involved.

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

One of the big, unspoken taboo subjects in the UK is the NHS resources used combatting Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Bengali mutations due to constant familial inbreeding.

The constant cousin fucking is real and not just a myth.

The problems of certain parts of the population is known.

But I want to stress also one point as it somehow here comes across as if EE immigrants (mostly Polish) integrate worse than the average Indian.

The thing is that the Polish people are way closer to the British one by an overwhelming margin - I am not even talking about race, but also culture and various similarities.

What people fail to grasp is that they compare the bottom barrel of the Polish society who get drunk on Sunday morning and claim benefits with the top 20% of the Indian one who move the UK. I don't know why I have to point out the fact that a large part of the Indian population does not even accept toilets (government programs to convince them otherwise fail constantly) and if those guys came over to Britain, then we would see a different side of India than with the high-performing intelligent well-educated ones moving over.

Currently a country like Poland has 80%+ of youth being college educated and the old bummed out worker population who does not even learn any foreign language is dying out. The criminal part of the youth - they moved to Britain as well.

But long-term inter-generational examples from Germany have shown that even those more simple people have progeny which in overwhelming numbers studied and prospered. Essentially they became indistinguishable to Westerners.

Indian culture however is highly different by default - sometimes adhering to very foreign standards and mental patterns after 2-3 generations. After that time any Polish or Croatian immigrant would have long forgotten what country his grandfather or father came from.

So the building pissing Polish bums you see in the UK cannot really be compared to the programmers and entrepreneurs from India. As much as it hurts the pride of my Indian brothers here - we have to take things with a grain of salt.

The Polish culture was pretty backwards too even in the 1960s. As I visited a museum in Krakow with a girl I saw pictures of peasants in the 1960s who were given appartments in the city for the first time (forced moves in order to influence the intelligentsia there) and I saw pics of them moving in with their cows and chickens into apartments! That is literally how backwards they were.

Now there was also an advanced side of it and by 2015 Poland has a highly educated workforce and an average IQ of 106 (one of the highest in the EU). That said - economy is still shit, girls are pretty and kind, so I take everything with a grain of salt and without any cultural or generational pride.

I personally have Austrian, Russian & Polish ancestry (some Jewish one as well), but I don't really care about all of that. I try to see things as objectively as I can not averting my eyes from the good or the bad.

 

[Constitution45]

Im not too sure whether the Polish immigrants in the U.K will completely forget their heritage. Take in mind that to take a flight back to Poland is incredibly cheap and fast. There is such a large Polish community in the U.K, that they don't really have to integrate a great deal. And even if they were to, it will be in the modern u.k city communities. So there will be blacks, asians and all other sorts of nationalities, that will probably outnumber the working class Brits. I am just playing devils advocate however, there will be a lot of Polish who will forget their heritage and adapt to the U.K. Especially as Poland is now becoming very wealthy and is well integrated with the EU.

America on the other hand had a long period of assimilation, well until relatively recently with all the large scale mexican immigration. The U.K over the last decade, just hasn't had that and never will have that, because our government and even country doesn't recognise a national culture. Aside from being 'tolerant, fair and diverse'.

From growing up in a major city in England, I can tell you that the country does take away any positives that immigrant culture x and perverts it. Something about this country, just allows for any inhibition or sense of responsibility to be taken away.

 

[Genghis Khan]

But I want to stress also one point as it somehow here comes across as if EE immigrants (mostly Polish) integrate worse than the average Indian.

Average Indian or average Indian immigrant? Because yes, the average Indian immigrant does integrate extremely well. Far better than EE immigrants. It's a fact.

What people fail to grasp is that they compare the bottom barrel of the Polish society who get drunk on Sunday morning and claim benefits with the top 20% of the Indian one who move the UK. I don't know why I have to point out the fact that a large part of the Indian population does not even accept toilets (government programs to convince them otherwise fail constantly) and if those guys came over to Britain, then we would see a different side of India than with the high-performing intelligent well-educated ones moving over.

Because they don't immigrate. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. The backward, average Indian is not going to immigrate to the UK. The people who refuse toilets...they can't afford plane tickets. There's also a huge selection bias at play. Indians who immigrate tend to do so because they want a much better life. I can't speak for the UK, but in the US not all Indian immigrants are highly educated or skilled. Quite a few own motels and gas stations. But they all work extremely hard and I was personally surprised to know that some of them are genuinely self-made multi-millionaires.

Indian people who want to live off welfare or criminal Indians...they can do so quite easily in India. You seem to imagine that if the UK had an open immigration policy for Indians, the UK would get overrun with Indians. It's just not going to happen.

Indian culture however is highly different by default - sometimes adhering to very foreign standards and mental patterns after 2-3 generations. After that time any Polish or Croatian immigrant would have long forgotten what country his grandfather or father came from.

The only thing that stays around after 2-3 generations is the skin color. In all honesty, maybe it's different in the UK. But here in the US I have yet to meet a 3rd generation Indian who is NOT completely Americanized and can speak his grandparents' language. Third generation Indian-Americans are as American as apple pie (as the saying goes). And honestly, I don't know if your argument about Polish/Croatian immigrants forgetting is true. I've met scores of Americans who still identify with the original country of their last name (e.g. people named Franco thinking they're Italian-American even if they're 3-5th generation Americans).

Here's a serious real world example: Japanese-American citizens (despite their skin color) still volunteered to fight in WWII and gave an oath to only support the US. Even if that meant having to fight Japan. That's because they were integrated. The biggest irony: some German-Americans fought for the Nazis.

https://www.quora.com/Did-any-Japanese-Americans-fight-in-the-Pacific-Theater-during-WWII

However, despite the fact that the Japanese-American soldiers of the 100th were near Pearl Harbor during that day of infamy, and despite the fact that all them wanted to take the fight back to the Japanese (Or "Japs", as many ironically called them), the military brass was conflicted as to whether they should be deployed in the Pacific. Even The 100th's insignia showcases their thoughts of the Pearl Harbor attack.

So the building pissing Polish bums you see in the UK cannot really be compared to the programmers and entrepreneurs from India. As much as it hurts the pride of my Indian brothers here - we have to take things with a grain of salt.

I personally have Austrian, Russian & Polish ancestry (some Jewish one as well), but I don't really care about all of that. I try to see things as objectively as I can not averting my eyes from the good or the bad.

Uhuh, sure. Because this thread has gone on for 3 pages because of hurt pride of Indian guys on the forum, right? Let's call a spade a spade. The fact is Indian immigrants do extremely well, integrate superbly and do so better than the average EE immigrant. And this entire thread is still going on because guys with some EE heritage can't accept that fact.

Also, are you a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant? Because if so, I hope you see the irony in stating that 2-3rd generation Polish immigrants would have forgotten where their grandfather came from while in the same thread saying you have Polish ancestry.

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

Also, are you a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant? Because if so, I hope you see the irony in stating that 2-3rd generation Polish immigrants would have forgotten where their grandfather came from while in the same thread saying you have Polish ancestry.

Dude - relax. With forgetting I meant that it mattered little to them/no importance to their lives and not forgetting like some Alzheimer patient.

I agree with most of what you said - differences don't make it even worth a thread. So chill.... I am not getting butt-hurt over anything here.

Besides - we don't have to agree 100% on everything in life. So chill - our points of disagreement are minor - if at all. The world is changing anyway not through our own actions. Immigration will continue to the EU & the US - partly bad, partly good, it will change those countries.

In the grand scale of things change is the only constant - 100.000 years from now this place might be all dust and memories in time - nothing to fret about.

 

[Saweeep]

I actually think people are more concerned with Romanians and Bulgarians (the latest wave of EU entrants) than Poles.

We have quite a close relationship with Poland going back to WW2.

 

[Ethan Hunt]

RE: Nigel Farage: "immigrants from India and Australia better than eastern Europe...

I actually think people are more concerned with Romanians and Bulgarians (the latest wave of EU entrants) than Poles.

We have quite a close relationship with Poland going back to WW2.

CBW.

I had the "pleasure" of being spoken to by an 19 year old Polish lass about the Polish war effort for the Brits. She claims that the Brits were never thankful and that Polish should be allowed free roam of the UK because of it. An opinion matched by some long forgotten Polish prince living in London who challenged Farage to a duel earlier this month.


To the wider discussion.

I see mixed reactions to Romanians. Usually people react badly but the ones I've interacted with have all been positive. A cafe I went to in Ireland had a Romanian waitress (I only knew that because I thought she was Italian, she told me Romanian). I'm pretty sure the owner was Romanian too as they both were talking in a language unfamiliar to me. Point is they'd created an enterprise that is a positive. There was nothing that would stop a native Irish person from creating a business but they didn't so it was created by a Romanian instead.

This may be more to do with mixing circles but I know a Romanian immigrant who arrived prior to the inclusion into the Eurozone. He arrived on work permit and stayed because the company valued him. A Nigerian friend done something similar actually. Starting off on a student visa to complete a masters degree before gaining a work permit. He mentioned that he has another two years before he can apply for a permanent residency. Failing that he mentioned he'll apply for an investors permit and invest (I believe) £200,000 somewhere.

Both these guys arrived here in a similar manner that Farage would like. Both add value to the UK economy. The Nigerian is a 40% tax payer. They both work for the same multinational and there are many other non British people work there from around the globe, Indians included. They've all integrated well enough but then they've all had backgrounds desirable to that one company.

Got me wondering if a multinational is willing to sponsor a resident from one country and move them to another should that be included in the freedom of movement that we currently see within the EU?

Personally I think that medium to large organisations should be allowed to sponsor residencies whereas movement between countries should be limited on an application process. I'm not an economist so I can not calculate long term implications of the current system vs any proposed system.