No point in working

ilostabet

Pelican
The Middle Ages are really a great case study for all lies by the powerful. Even when not referred to as 'dark ages', it is the 'middle', which suggests an in between state between two (more important) things. The truth however is that the men of that era had not only better lives than during Roman Imperial rule but also during the periods that followed - the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution and whatever we call our era. Even amidst all the lies, the truth comes up, and you will find evidence of this (one example I recently found out about was the 'tall men of the Middle Ages', which runs completely against the picture that is carefully painted for us).

There is a vested interest, thus, in painting this period of history as the worst of all - when in fact it was not only the age of Faith in Christ, but it was better in many other, more materially palatable ways. The powerful always wanted to make the weak work more and more. One of the most underrated benefits of the Church during the Middle Ages was to multiply greatly the number of holidays, which all would observe (from the slave to the King) and in which work was not performed - because, remember, it is a punishment, it is not inherent to our nature, but only part of our corrupted nature and the corruption brought about in the world because of our own corruption). This benefit of the Church was much to the dismay of the powerful, be them statesmen or businessmen. Eventually, through political reform and revolution, while abolishing slavery in principle, they instituted a new form of it much more degrading to our bodies, minds and souls.

Dispelling the myth of the 'dark ages' is one of the most important educational goals we have.
 

DanielH

Pelican
A farmer today simply could not survive working medieval peasant hours even with modern equipment. The modern farmer works around 60 hours a week. Goes to show how much is stolen from us and how out of whack the economy is in favor of more usurious enterprises.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I am finishing up a work contract this month. I have lots of work and things to do to keep me busy. I am not feeling a rush to plug back into Globohomo at the moment as I have some savings and some projects to keep myself busy.

The projects and work I will do are tangible, so they will have alot more VALUE than the work for globo homo. Globohomo work provides wages though, even though the work feels like it is without value, I'll probably start to miss the monthly paycheque after a while and get pulled back in.
 

lookslikeit

Woodpecker
Giving poor kids laptops by taxation is theft. If you want to help, buy them a laptop yourself. Which you could easily do if government didn't steal 40%, spend 30% to pocket, write papers and pay people to buy the actual laptop.
There is no free education. Only indoctrination. It is particularly telling in my country where you are forced to go to school by the State Gun. No homeschooling allowed. Looking back, I am lucky enough to see how I was manipulated and I think many people on this forum are as well.

At which point should the government intervene or the government stops being a government. There is lots of wasted tax $$$ and lots of bureaucracies and what I'm saying is that if I were to complain about gov. wasted $$$ then giving an education to kids would be the lowest on my list. Also not giving these kids an education will guarantee that they'll end up just like their parents or even worse. At least they now have a shot to integrate into the productive society.

Now the educational content is a whole other story we can argue on.
 

DanielH

Pelican
At which point should the government intervene or the government stops being a government. There is lots of wasted tax $$$ and lots of bureaucracies and what I'm saying is that if I were to complain about gov. wasted $$$ then giving an education to kids would be the lowest on my list. Also not giving these kids an education will guarantee that they'll end up just like their parents or even worse. At least they now have a shot to integrate into the productive society.

Now the educational content is a whole other story we can argue on.
I would actually argue closing all public elementary schools and most or all high schools would be a good thing. Clearly wasted on most of the population. We're spending hundreds of thousands on kids in some places for them to just go on welfare. Also it's literal torture and brainwashing for kids. At a minimum adopt a trade school system. This all goes towards destroying the fake usurious economy and building a family oriented real economy.
 

username

Ostrich
Gold Member
use the system to your advantage. If you are self-employed (I assume you have something like an LLC or a C-Corp), you should be paying much less, close to 0.

I was thinking about doing a thread about this exact topic. United States of course... If you have an S Corp or LLC there are so many advantages. If your married, you can double up your savings. And with kid(s) there are even more savings. A scenario I just calculated... married couple, 100k income before taxes, 15k business expenses, live off of $35,000/year (part via distribution), and the rest is dumped into retirement accounts (IRA/401k), health savings account, while only paying a few thousand in income taxes and fica/medicare/ss. Plus getting almost free healthcare through the marketplace and subsidies.
 

NoFunInAus

Kingfisher
I really appreciate the comments in this thread and I'm glad I started it as it was somewhat impulsive and something I normally would regret the next day but it seems more and more men are thinking alike. This is great, not the subject but the opportunity to converse with each other over this, as in the "real" world I have no one to talk to unless I bore my wife with this subject she is already familiar with.

Since I have started this thread I have quit my menial job, (almost) renovated my home, learned new skills, purchased tools I never knew of and now we are close to the "escape". I use quotations as I know there is no escape as only God can provide judgement; but to accept the abuse I was submitted to (which trickled down to my family) and now the realization of the laughable existence I was living and not using any of my talents... well it's quite something.

I feel blessed. Do what you feel is right, it's your God given right.
 

lookslikeit

Woodpecker
I was thinking about doing a thread about this exact topic. United States of course... If you have an S Corp or LLC there are so many advantages. If your married, you can double up your savings. And with kid(s) there are even more savings. A scenario I just calculated... married couple, 100k income before taxes, 15k business expenses, live off of $35,000/year (part via distribution), and the rest is dumped into retirement accounts (IRA/401k), health savings account, while only paying a few thousand in income taxes and fica/medicare/ss. Plus getting almost free healthcare through the marketplace and subsidies.
Many people think this is smart when it is actually what the system wants you to do. They can already print money, the whole tax thing is a way to discourage/encourage people to do things and channel them on their planned ways. But along these ways there is a way that can be a win for you and you just gotta figure that out.
 

typtre

Robin
At which point should the government intervene or the government stops being a government. There is lots of wasted tax $$$ and lots of bureaucracies and what I'm saying is that if I were to complain about gov. wasted $$$ then giving an education to kids would be the lowest on my list.
My lowest would be infrastructure or law enforcement. No way would I send my kids to public school [end sentence] through lush forest with Joggers and Trannydrags roaming the area.
Also not giving these kids an education will guarantee that they'll end up just like their parents or even worse. At least they now have a shot to integrate into the productive society.
Assumption here seems to be kids with bad parents will be better off by being given a waste-of-cash prison-like school environment where they themselves will somehow realize the importance of applying themselves to get an obedient-worker-oriented education and if they only graduate the doors to Globohomo Inc. and a career will be open and they can finally produce something back to Society.

Sounds like the EU 2015 Immigration Plan.

Now the educational content is a whole other story we can argue on.
Agreed.

I would actually argue closing all public elementary schools and most or all high schools would be a good thing. Clearly wasted on most of the population. We're spending hundreds of thousands on kids in some places for them to just go on welfare. Also it's literal torture and brainwashing for kids. At a minimum adopt a trade school system. This all goes towards destroying the fake usurious economy and building a family oriented real economy.
Agreed. Although at minimum maybe just a school teaching Math and Language. Everything else is, for a kid with the brain yet to be developed and capable of critical thought, will be indoctrinated through repetition by passing tests. I think trade schools would thrive outside of this, because no kid knows he really wants to be a carpenter or a welder at age 12.


Public schools throughout the West is meant to produce obedient workers for the previous industrial era. The Boomers were the only ones to benefit but the cost was the future. It has not caught up with the times and instead been further subverted, not even producing workers for non-existent factory lines, but mindless drones. Drones who excel at obedience and genuinely believe the solution to every problem is a slogan ("ban fossil fuels", "go green", "equality for all", "because Men"). By working and paying tax, this is further enabled.
 

Mike_Key

Woodpecker
Interesting topic.

I've heard that Federal Govt work is slowing too. The USA Govt GIS map is all red, which means that Feds are not working investigating, inspecting or monitoring Firms/Businesses. If a county in the USA is Blue, Green or Yellow then work can happen or may happen, but little work is actually taking place. There is other "user fee" Fed work that is probably being questioned now, firing may happen.

Also, some Homeland Security Border / Import type employees that worked on "fee for service" contracts surrounding Federal work were being furloughed/fired.

I wouldn't say people will stop working, at the flip of a switch - it can all Start again. If certain conditions are met. Don't forget the Democrat Coup attempt, 3 years of Daily lying.

This friend of ours invited us to his "land". Sweet deal but I don't think it will be needed.

If it turns to that type of living, people can't forget "trade/barter" systems.

People are fighting back.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-yor...0201206-q7evw2qyx5di3d7l34tjlyzdra-story.html
 

rainy

Kingfisher
I was previously a corporate recruiter with two asshole bosses, stuck at my desk 8 hrs per day, working 10-12 hr days (interviewing from my home at night), the pressure of the department mostly on my shoulders, only to hope for a decent % of the much large commission going to my boss/owners. It was terrible. A grown man busting my ass, with a wife a newborn at home and my boss questioning me if my bathroom break was longer than 5 mins.

So a few years ago after saving I had the opportunity to purchase a landscape design/build/maintenance company with my brother. Moved out of state for it. Dug in and suddenly was responsible for everything from accounting/finance to networking and business development. Strategy, marketing, advertising, hiring/firing, improving customer relations, everything which goes into running a business. If you're ambitious you literally learn every aspect and detail of the business. I've learned more in the last 3 years than the 10 prior. Long hours but mentally stimulating. Engaging. Out and about all the time knowing what I put in equates to what I get out of it. Hustle. Grind. See the reward for oneself. Not for a boss.

I would encourage others to seek a similar opportunity if it arises, whatever the industry. In my time here in this new career I went from working in a corporate office to dealing with a large number blue collar subtractor types in connected industries. What I noticed is they value hard work, trust and relations with customers and, the quality of their service. They take pride in their work. And you know what, they're successful, they're small business owners and they're happy.

We work with multiple lawn applicators who own companies of 1-3 employees, make well into the 6 figures each year and get three months off every winter to go down south. Who would think of becoming a lawn applicator? Well one of the ones who works with us has a 1M+ house, a boat and a 2-3 month time share in Florida he goes to every off season. Work with lighting and irrigation owners who make 300-500K per year, just killing it. A family owned mason company, making well into the six figures each year. Then there's the guys who started the nurseries which companies like mine purchase from, who make high six figures each year. One of our suppliers is a husband/wife working out of their home who provides debris removal services and supplies top soil/mulch. Pretty sure they're make 7 figures. Their house we've landscaped is easily 3M.

The majority of people I do business with, and we're a high end firm, have jobs and own companies which require no college degree. It requires street smarts, ambition, hustle and pride. And they're making good money working for themselves and leaving a lasting impression on many around them. And they're happy. Serious. But happy. Not stuck behind a desk. Out and about most of the day. There's just so much more pride, energy, care for their work and again, happiness and enjoying of life with this crowd than the white collared people I used to work with.

My latest endeavor is expanding to offering Christmas lighting. Partnered with a sub, got him to light our office for free for advertising which he obviously would see the rewards from, put up a sign, marketed, sent out mailers, go from one estimate to the next, a good amount of rejection but hey, I get a few thousand here, a few thousand there, get some extra cash for the company for the off season and slowly grow a new revenue stream. While getting on new properties. Maybe it works out. Maybe it doesn't. But it's a challenge, it's interesting and no one is there to tell me not to do it. The best thing about owning a business is there are no limits on what you can do and there is no one tell you you can't do or try something. You strategize. You try. You fail. You succeed. You grow. You learn.

I would encourage anyone with the means to find something similar. Work for yourself. Build it yourself. Save and go in with a trusted friend and buy a successful company. Do anything you can so you create the dynamic where you directly see the rewards from your hard work. Nothing can be more motivating. Whatever the industry. And the harder I work and more successful I am, the more I can give back to the community. To local non-profits. To charities. To churches. The good karma builds. The purpose builds. I donate to every church fundraiser in our community. I recently lead a huge effort for a Thanksgiving food drive. I help museums. Schools. Boys & Girls clubs. YMCA. And my real point is if I was slaving away as a recruiter still, I wouldn't have the means to help everyone that I do help.

Compare that to slugging away in a cubicle for someone else who reaps the benefits of your hard work, while you hope for a little bonus at Christmas.

I strongly feel that for many, the money spent on college/education would be better spent in learning a trade, starting your own company and hustling like crazy. By 25 you would be debt free, make 6 figures, own a home and be set to raise a family while business growth compounds.
 
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rainy

Kingfisher
Something I have observed related to my above post.

My brother and I bought this company from...a pair of brothers who were mid 60's, had built the company over three decades and were looking to cash out. Pitched hard and sold them on seeing their younger selves in us. That we had great respect for their brand, their accomplishments, their legacy and would build it further. Make them proud. Sell yourself and your vision!

Look at the landscape. Look at society. Look at boomers who started, built and ran family owned companies. They are arriving at the point where they want to retire. They had their ride. They also have a reputation/brand, customer base, and repeat business locked up. And a younger, energetic person(s) can come in and improve it. That's much less risk than going the VC route, getting financial backing and going with a startup. The base and revenue is already there. Year on year. In a service industry.

There is massive opportunity there.

Another observation from experience. You don't need the capital to buy the company outright many times. A down payment and pay as you operate guarantee is often reasonable. Say their net is 300K. Take a loan out for 100K, put down the down payment, offer 150K per year for 10 years. That can get you a company valued around 1.3-1.5M, 5X net which is a standard valuation. You're at first left with 150K net minus your loan amount. Then because you're young and ambitious, you hustle and grow that 150K to 200K, then 250K. Still pay out that 150K each year to the previous owner. Pay off your loan. In 10 years you should be clear of all debt, you doubled income from 150K to 300K, then you get that extra 150K you were previously paying out.

Do that at 30 and at 40 you're an owner netting 450K per year. Grow it a little more, hire a trusted GM, then travel the world while he runs the company.
 
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SilentCal

Sparrow
Something I have observed related to my above post.

My brother and I bought this company from...a pair of brothers who were mid 60's, had built the company over three decades and were looking to cash out. Pitched hard and sold them on seeing their younger selves in us. That we had great respect for their brand, their accomplishments, their legacy and would build it further. Make them proud. Sell yourself and your vision!

Look at the landscape. Look at society. Look at boomers who started, built and ran family owned companies. They are arriving at the point where they want to retire. They had their ride. They also have a reputation/brand, customer base, and repeat business locked up. And a younger, energetic person(s) can come in and improve it. That's much less risk than going the VC route, getting financial backing and going with a startup. The base and revenue is already there. Year on year. In a service industry.

There is massive opportunity there.

Another observation from experience. You don't need the capital to buy the company outright many times. A down payment and pay as you operate guarantee is often reasonable. Say their net is 300K. Take a loan out for 100K, put down the down payment, offer 150K per year for 10 years. That can get you a company valued around 1.3-1.5M, 5X net which is a standard valuation. You're at first left with 150K net minus your loan amount. Then because you're young and ambitious, you hustle and grow that 150K to 200K, then 250K. Still pay out that 150K each year to the previous owner. Pay off your loan. In 10 years you should be clear of all debt, you doubled income from 150K to 300K, then you get that extra 150K you were previously paying out.

Do that at 30 and at 40 you're an owner netting 450K per year. Grow it a little more, hire a trusted GM, then travel the world while he runs the company.
Most people just don’t have this opportunity because they

1) don’t know retiring boomers looking to sell an established business

2) don’t have the savings to buy even if they did

3) couldn’t convince the boomers to sell anyway

4) don’t have the credit to take out 100k of loans

5) can’t afford the risk of being 100k in debt, with interest accruing, if the business fails.

I am happy that you are successful but I feel like advice like this makes “wage slaves” feel even worse than they already do, because it makes them feel like it’s their own fault that their lives suck (because they just don’t know how to “hustle).
 

rainy

Kingfisher
Most people just don’t have this opportunity because they

1) don’t know retiring boomers looking to sell an established business

2) don’t have the savings to buy even if they did

3) couldn’t convince the boomers to sell anyway

4) don’t have the credit to take out 100k of loans

5) can’t afford the risk of being 100k in debt, with interest accruing, if the business fails.

I am happy that you are successful but I feel like advice like this makes “wage slaves” feel even worse than they already do, because it makes them feel like it’s their own fault that their lives suck (because they just don’t know how to “hustle).
Well, here in the NY region I'm surrounded by hustlers. One could argue you either have it or you don't.

However I was a "wage slave" who accomplished this and believe many more can with the right mind set and confidence. Nothing is handed to you in life. Circumstance impacts motivation. A wife and a newborn was enough for me.

To you points:

1) If you're motivated, that reality is accessible. Study the current market.

2) I did not have the savings when I first thought about this. I cut expenses to create this opportunity, as did many of our generations before us.

3) One of the most valuable skills in life is the ability to sell yourself and sell your vision. Learn to do it. Don't be scared to fail at first as you will. I had multiple rejections before success.

4) Then improve credit. I raised mine from low 500's to mid 700's in two years. Or save and go in with a partner. Or get financial backing from friends/family with profit share. Start thinking like a businessman.

5) Debt equates to opportunity with the right mindset. Why would you approach a similar deal thinking you would be a failure? Bust your ass, have a plan, have faith and handle the obstacles. Can't risk 100K for a 1.5M company with a solid customer base? Then you're not serious about business.

This isn't about me. I presented a blueprint I have seen successful for a number of people around me with no college education. With all due respect you presented a laundry list of reasons why it can't be done. That's a poor mind frame. You listed five excuses. A motived, confident entrepreneur would list his 5 keys and paths to success. Then pivot as needed.
 

NoFunInAus

Kingfisher
Well, here in the NY region I'm surrounded by hustlers. One could argue you either have it or you don't.

However I was a "wage slave" who accomplished this and believe many more can with the right mind set and confidence. Nothing is handed to you in life. Circumstance impacts motivation. A wife and a newborn was enough for me.

To you points:

1) If you're motivated, that reality is accessible. Study the current market.

2) I did not have the savings when I first thought about this. I cut expenses to create this opportunity, as did many of our generations before us.

3) One of the most valuable skills in life is the ability to sell yourself and sell your vision. Learn to do it. Don't be scared to fail at first as you will. I had multiple rejections before success.

4) Then improve credit. I raised mine from low 500's to mid 700's in two years. Or save and go in with a partner. Or get financial backing from friends/family with profit share. Start thinking like a businessman.

5) Debt equates to opportunity with the right mindset. Why would you approach a similar deal thinking you would be a failure? Bust your ass, have a plan, have faith and handle the obstacles. Can't risk 100K for a 1.5M company with a solid customer base? Then you're not serious about business.

This isn't about me. I presented a blueprint I have seen successful for a number of people around me with no college education. With all due respect you presented a laundry list of reasons why it can't be done. That's a poor mind frame. You listed five excuses. A motived, confident entrepreneur would list his 5 keys and paths to success. Then pivot as needed.
I can relate to both your view points.

The best thing I did was quit my job as stated in a previous comment, the time available opened up the opportunity to learn new skills which developed in to new tools I thought would be impossible "for someone like me". This mindset of "too good for me" is actually a sign of abuse, yes the government is in the business of rape.

The whole "get a full time job" gig is set up to not make you discover these hidden treasures just waiting for you to tap in to. It's called "full time" for a reason.
Look I'm nowhere near to the monetary success of @rainy but there are more important things than to make your boss happy. Or Netflix. Popcorn, porn etc. It's all related.

Making money is nice but with the Schwab's in control of your monetary destiny, you will have to make your own.

Live frugal, learn how to live frugal and you will find out you never needed it in the first place.

“The Richest Man Is Not He Who Has The Most, But He Who Needs The Least.”​

 
Well, here in the NY region I'm surrounded by hustlers. One could argue you either have it or you don't.

However I was a "wage slave" who accomplished this and believe many more can with the right mind set and confidence. Nothing is handed to you in life. Circumstance impacts motivation. A wife and a newborn was enough for me.

To you points:

1) If you're motivated, that reality is accessible. Study the current market.

2) I did not have the savings when I first thought about this. I cut expenses to create this opportunity, as did many of our generations before us.

3) One of the most valuable skills in life is the ability to sell yourself and sell your vision. Learn to do it. Don't be scared to fail at first as you will. I had multiple rejections before success.

4) Then improve credit. I raised mine from low 500's to mid 700's in two years. Or save and go in with a partner. Or get financial backing from friends/family with profit share. Start thinking like a businessman.

5) Debt equates to opportunity with the right mindset. Why would you approach a similar deal thinking you would be a failure? Bust your ass, have a plan, have faith and handle the obstacles. Can't risk 100K for a 1.5M company with a solid customer base? Then you're not serious about business.

This isn't about me. I presented a blueprint I have seen successful for a number of people around me with no college education. With all due respect you presented a laundry list of reasons why it can't be done. That's a poor mind frame. You listed five excuses. A motived, confident entrepreneur would list his 5 keys and paths to success. Then pivot as needed.

I would advocate the point that there is most probably an oversupply of silent/boomers willing to either sell their business, or train a quality apprentice in a specialised niche. A lot of it won't be glamourous, or lucrative work, though it will be sustainable. It certainly won't be a 40 hour work week, and Award rates.

In a lot of specialised fields, and areas of expertise, the main cohort of staff is over 55, and most young people are dissuaded by any sort of trade that isn't WFH, or an office job. The craft would mostly go when they do, save for the very few who have trained in it.

Outside of buying into franchises, very few people would realise that a successful business can be purchased, or that vendor finance is a concept.

It is a scalable concept, which would be applicable for smaller sized businesses. Working as a business over as an employee, will be worthwhile for the tax deductions, and reduced tax bill.
 

SilentCal

Sparrow
Well, here in the NY region I'm surrounded by hustlers. One could argue you either have it or you don't.

However I was a "wage slave" who accomplished this and believe many more can with the right mind set and confidence. Nothing is handed to you in life. Circumstance impacts motivation. A wife and a newborn was enough for me.

To you points:

1) If you're motivated, that reality is accessible. Study the current market.

2) I did not have the savings when I first thought about this. I cut expenses to create this opportunity, as did many of our generations before us.

3) One of the most valuable skills in life is the ability to sell yourself and sell your vision. Learn to do it. Don't be scared to fail at first as you will. I had multiple rejections before success.

4) Then improve credit. I raised mine from low 500's to mid 700's in two years. Or save and go in with a partner. Or get financial backing from friends/family with profit share. Start thinking like a businessman.

5) Debt equates to opportunity with the right mindset. Why would you approach a similar deal thinking you would be a failure? Bust your ass, have a plan, have faith and handle the obstacles. Can't risk 100K for a 1.5M company with a solid customer base? Then you're not serious about business.

This isn't about me. I presented a blueprint I have seen successful for a number of people around me with no college education. With all due respect you presented a laundry list of reasons why it can't be done. That's a poor mind frame. You listed five excuses. A motived, confident entrepreneur would list his 5 keys and paths to success. Then pivot as needed.
I feel you, but still, most business ventures fail. While this would be a worthwhile risk for some, some others will find themselves in debt with no job if they take the same risk. And if I’m not mistaken, a plurality of working people don’t even make enough money to have any left over to save at the end of the month. That’s why I think that, in general, it would be better if we had decent-paying jobs that were more humane.
 

NoFunInAus

Kingfisher
I feel you, but still, most business ventures fail. While this would be a worthwhile risk for some, some others will find themselves in debt with no job if they take the same risk. And if I’m not mistaken, a plurality of working people don’t even make enough money to have any left over to save at the end of the month. That’s why I think that, in general, it would be better if we had decent-paying jobs that were more humane.
But we don't.


This was the whole point of the thread man.
 

bucky

Ostrich
I feel you, but still, most business ventures fail. While this would be a worthwhile risk for some, some others will find themselves in debt with no job if they take the same risk. And if I’m not mistaken, a plurality of working people don’t even make enough money to have any left over to save at the end of the month. That’s why I think that, in general, it would be better if we had decent-paying jobs that were more humane.
I'm very far into the camp that categorically rejects the idea of not working and going on the dole. While recognizing that the system is unfair, I see it as unmanly and cowardly. Sure, the job market is tough but you can reject being a failure and weakling, be better than the average guy and carve out a worthwhile niche for yourself in an unfair system. I did it, and if I've done it anyone who isn't actually handicapped in some way can.

That said, all of that would be far easier if we weren't importing the entire third world to undercut wages for the average Westerner. One of the many things about the left that makes me shake my head is the idea that blue collar jobs should pay a living wage, but we should also important hundreds of millions of third worlders who will happily work for even less than that living wage.
 

SilentCal

Sparrow
But we don't.


This was the whole point of the thread man.
I know, I’m just trying to say that hustling your way out of the anti-worker economic situation isn’t a general solution to the problem. I don’t think getting money from the government is the solution either, by the way. But it’s not impossible that we can achieve a more pro-worker economy legally and politically, which is what workers really deserve.
 
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