Non-steroids performance boosters

[joecolombia]

Have you looked into SARM's like Ostarine?

I've heard good things about them.

I'll second ostarine--I learned about it from a Good Looking Loser post a few months back and was curious enough to try it out, I'm finishing up an 8 week run now and have been happy with it. I already ordered more and will be running it again after taking some downtime.

My background was similar--I wanted faster gains than just whey + creatine would give me, without having to run a full supported cycle followed by PCT like steroids require--and SARMs fit the bill best. Also, they're legal...I ordered mine right online without having to go through a research chemical site or the like.

I haven't researched other SARMs to quite the same extent. I also considered LGD-4033 as people report greater gains from it, but the side effect profile is much larger. In particular, T suppression is far more common on LGD so I went with Osterine in the hope that I don't get suppression from it.

Here's some cliff notes on osterine:

• SARMs ("Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator") bind only with certain androgen receptors, rather than steroids which also effect organs like the prostate
• You don't have the direct testoreone-to-estrogen increase you get from steroids, so unless you're prone to gyno you can pass on an taking an anti-estrogen
• T suppression is a possibility, I couldn't find hard data on frequency so going from reading people's logs it seems roughly a 50/50 risk. The only research papers are on low doses used to treat muscle wasting and it wasn't suppressive in those studies, however, using it at a bodybuilder does (ie 25 or 37.5mg) does risk suppression over a longer period of time. If you do get suppressed, you can either wait it out or use over-the-counter PCT as the effects are more minor than a steroid cycle
• You're not going to get steroid level results. Your results should exceed natty by quite a bit. Personally, I dropped creatine and took just ostarine to test it out, and the performance boost was considerably more noticeable than on creatine. I haven't ran steroids so I can't compare it to them.

Is there a 100% safe supplement or any kind of aid that boosts your performance apart from the good ol` roids?

I want strength and physical condition, since crossfit requires both.

What kind of supplements are you having and how does that workout for you?

While there's no such thing as 100% safe, ostarine is the closest I know of. Gains are moderate but satisfying, and at least for me I haven't had sides. I've been adding weight and reps much faster than I was before taking it.

If you're curious, check out the GLL post here and also I learned quite a bit from reading user experiences in this thread on Anabolic Minds

Sounds like a good bet. I am not against steroids, i just think it is a big leap i am not willing to take, at elast not yet.

How many pounds have you increased since you began with ostarine? and how are the side effects treating you?

is it worth it?

 

[rudebwoy]

Some will argue over supplements that supposedly work, I will say if you train hard enough you can get the desired results.

I am not a fan of crossfit, it seems a bit neurotic for me and a fad that needs to go away.

Have you thought about a personal trainer or getting a workout partner?

 

[CPG]

Sounds like a good bet. I am not against steroids, i just think it is a big leap i am not willing to take, at elast not yet.

How many pounds have you increased since you began with ostarine? and how are the side effects treating you?

is it worth it?

Yeah that's my attitude on steroids as well, I've read up and thought about them but I'm not yet ready to go to the dark side. I've enjoyed my dalliance in the grey with SARMs, I'll come back to 'roids if/when I feel a need for something more extreme.

The pounds on the bar have gone up steadily. I've yet to have a workout where I haven't progressed at least a few of the lifts, while when I followed the same bulking protocol on creatine I did sometimes plateau.

My recovery has also been better, before taking ostarine I occasionally overdid it on a workout early in the week and was dragging later on, while since adding it in I've rarely been sore.

Unfortunately I didn't track my LBM change carefully, as this was a personal experiment and not something I planned to post about it until I saw your thread. I can see a clear difference and I got some compliments from friends over the holidays, but to show you hard numbers I'll have to point you to some of the progress logs out there.

Before starting it I skimmed over a bunch of logs on body building forums, the consensus came down to much of what Chris said in the GLL post: do 6 to 8 weeks and expect somewhere in the 5 to 10 lb gain range, as long as you're not already at your genetic limit. If you Google "osterine bulking log" you'll get plenty of reading material on other people's results.

Sides-wise I've gotten off easy. No change in libido or mood, so either it hasn't been T-suppressive or the effects are weak enough not to affect me.

In week 2 I had a couple days in a row where I was getting flushed after meals (like I had just had a carb load) which was strange but harmless, and around week 5 I noticed some headaches and fuzziness for a few days which have since passed.

It's worth it for me--clear benefits, minimal sides, acceptable cost. Whether it makes sense for you or not depends on if the cost is reasonable and if you have troublesome sides. The risk factors for trying it are low--if you notice a sudden plummet in libido you can stop taking it and it'll clear up shortly.

That Anabolic Minds thread had a number of suggestions on things to keep on hand in case you saw any gyno or the like, I don't think it's a big risk but if you're feeling cautious you could grab some of that too. I picked up a few of their recommendations in case I feel anything off when I go back to normal.

 

[joecolombia]

Sounds like a good bet. I am not against steroids, i just think it is a big leap i am not willing to take, at elast not yet.

How many pounds have you increased since you began with ostarine? and how are the side effects treating you?

is it worth it?

Yeah that's my attitude on steroids as well, I've read up and thought about them but I'm not yet ready to go to the dark side. I've enjoyed my dalliance in the grey with SARMs, I'll come back to 'roids if/when I feel a need for something more extreme.

The pounds on the bar have gone up steadily. I've yet to have a workout where I haven't progressed at least a few of the lifts, while when I followed the same bulking protocol on creatine I did sometimes plateau.

My recovery has also been better, before taking ostarine I occasionally overdid it on a workout early in the week and was dragging later on, while since adding it in I've rarely been sore.

Unfortunately I didn't track my LBM change carefully, as this was a personal experiment and not something I planned to post about it until I saw your thread. I can see a clear difference and I got some compliments from friends over the holidays, but to show you hard numbers I'll have to point you to some of the progress logs out there.

Before starting it I skimmed over a bunch of logs on body building forums, the consensus came down to much of what Chris said in the GLL post: do 6 to 8 weeks and expect somewhere in the 5 to 10 lb gain range, as long as you're not already at your genetic limit. If you Google "osterine bulking log" you'll get plenty of reading material on other people's results.

Sides-wise I've gotten off easy. No change in libido or mood, so either it hasn't been T-suppressive or the effects are weak enough not to affect me.

In week 2 I had a couple days in a row where I was getting flushed after meals (like I had just had a carb load) which was strange but harmless, and around week 5 I noticed some headaches and fuzziness for a few days which have since passed.

It's worth it for me--clear benefits, minimal sides, acceptable cost. Whether it makes sense for you or not depends on if the cost is reasonable and if you have troublesome sides. The risk factors for trying it are low--if you notice a sudden plummet in libido you can stop taking it and it'll clear up shortly.

That Anabolic Minds thread had a number of suggestions on things to keep on hand in case you saw any gyno or the like, I don't think it's a big risk but if you're feeling cautious you could grab some of that too. I picked up a few of their recommendations in case I feel anything off when I go back to normal.

That actually sounds pretty good. Enough to improve and get better benchmarks, but not so much to "commit" into a bigger thing. That`s my drill.

I will look into it before I take a final decision but the way you are showing it to me looks like the best bet for a non steroids user, since the thing that worries me the most is the libido problems, hypergonadism and all of the side effects related to roids.

Ostarine looks like the perfect grey area between the two.

Will look foward into avaliability and pricing around my area!

 

[joecolombia]

Some will argue over supplements that supposedly work, I will say if you train hard enough you can get the desired results.

I am not a fan of crossfit, it seems a bit neurotic for me and a fad that needs to go away.

Have you thought about a personal trainer or getting a workout partner?

It is a bit neurotic, but if you take it apart, it is basically a standard training but arranged in different ways. You end up training the same muscle groups you would in a globo gym or somthing like that.

Everyone has its preferences though...

For me, the workout partner is the best mental booster you have avaliable. It is as simple as finding someone better than you, sticking to his process and reaching his time caps, pr`s, etc.

Pushing yourself with others.

 

[CPG]

That actually sounds pretty good. Enough to improve and get better benchmarks, but not so much to "commit" into a bigger thing. That`s my drill.

I will look into it before I take a final decision but the way you are showing it to me looks like the best bet for a non steroids user, since the thing that worries me the most is the libido problems, hypergonadism and all of the side effects related to roids.

Ostarine looks like the perfect grey area between the two.

Will look foward into avaliability and pricing around my area!

That's my take on it regarding the perfect middle ground, though as always I encourage doing more research on your own--the information is just my opinion, YMMV, etc.

If you end up trying it, let me know how it works out for you!

 

[MrFish]

I'm currently in my 7th week of an 8 week cycle LGD-4033. I've packed on 11lbs and my performance keeps increasing steadily. Each week I set new PR's.

I do notice some change in my libido though, but as far as I've read this is only suppression instead of actually shutting down T production. Users have reported their T levels to be normal again within 2 weeks after they stop their cycle.

LGD is, as far as I know, the strongest SARM you can get and I must say the results are amazing! There are some sides due to the T suppression, but nothing too bad in my experience.

I'll be running a second cycle after an interval of month or two. The one thing I'm going to change is lower the dosage and keep the dosage steady throughout the cycle. I've been upping the dosage periodically during this cycle and I stopped noticing a significant change in positive effects after my latest increase.

 

[joecolombia]

Update so far:

Yesterday I did some research and decided to try something before ostarine or any other type of SARM`s, since I`ve been basically a raw lifter, and only began drinking and getting supplements this year. I am probably escalating too quickly expecting results that not even roids would give me...

The thing is i want to qualify into a competition that starts 3 months from now, so trying my best to find the better way.

I decided to go for a natural test booster, usually used for after cycle of trt or something around those lines. Went to the better reviewed one, Animal stak.

Read some reviews and apparently it would give me around 4 to 5 pounds if used correctly. The cycle lasts 21 days and it has little to no side effects. I think it is a good way to start.

Since tomorrow is a rest day and sunday as well, i think i will start on monday, and will keep you updated on my process.

If you are not sure what to do, and are afraid to take a big leap, begin with this. Animal products are accesible and really good i think.

really pumped to see some gainz

 

[YoungAngel1]

People say Natural Test Boosters don't work, and I think for the majority of folks they don't, but I have a buddy who saw serious gains while on it. Personally, I took it, and didn't see crap. So, I think it depends on the person. I will tell you, to stay away from a lot of these supplements, they are shit for the most part. I've taken a crap load of protein, BCAA's, etc, and saw no difference when using those, and when using nothing at all. EC stack will probably be your best for cutting fat, it's safe, and legit. Steroids are probably the only legit supplement that is guaranteed to build you muscle, and cut you up at the same time.

 

[joecolombia]

People say Natural Test Boosters don't work, and I think for the majority of folks they don't, but I have a buddy who saw serious gains while on it. Personally, I took it, and didn't see crap. So, I think it depends on the person. I will tell you, to stay away from a lot of these supplements, they are shit for the most part. I've taken a crap load of protein, BCAA's, etc, and saw no difference when using those, and when using nothing at all. EC stack will probably be your best for cutting fat, it's safe, and legit. Steroids are probably the only legit supplement that is guaranteed to build you muscle, and cut you up at the same time.

I`ve actually gotten a bit of an edge with BCAA`s, creatine and protein shakes, but that is probably because my body was not used to so much shit.

on the other side, i can understand you since they don`t give you a boost per se, only increase the avaliable aminoacids for your hipertrofied muscles. Plus, they act a lot different on different bodies.

I read a lot of oposing thoughts with test boosters, but you never know until you`ve tried them... The real deal is finding the right supplement for your body.

Roids are just plain good for all bodies.

 

[Endurance]

Read some reviews and apparently it would give me around 4 to 5 pounds if used correctly. The cycle lasts 21 days and it has little to no side effects. I think it is a good way to start.

Its either water weight or the test booster is spiked.

 

[CPG]

I'm currently in my 7th week of an 8 week cycle LGD-4033. I've packed on 11lbs and my performance keeps increasing steadily. Each week I set new PR's.

I do notice some change in my libido though, but as far as I've read this is only suppression instead of actually shutting down T production. Users have reported their T levels to be normal again within 2 weeks after they stop their cycle.

LGD is, as far as I know, the strongest SARM you can get and I must say the results are amazing! There are some sides due to the T suppression, but nothing too bad in my experience.

I'll be running a second cycle after an interval of month or two. The one thing I'm going to change is lower the dosage and keep the dosage steady throughout the cycle. I've been upping the dosage periodically during this cycle and I stopped noticing a significant change in positive effects after my latest increase.

When picking a SARM I considered LGD-4033, as it was consistently reported as getting better LBM gains than the other SARMs.

The main thing that stopped me is the greater side effects--many ostarine users were able to take it without needing anything on-cycle or afterwards, while the LGD seemed to call for a PCT run afterwards. Some users suggested having cycle support, and at that point I'd be tempted to go for the gold and use steroids instead.

Have you noticed any sides besides the lower libido? Are you planning on PCT when you're done?

Update so far:

Yesterday I did some research and decided to try something before ostarine or any other type of SARM`s, since I`ve been basically a raw lifter, and only began drinking and getting supplements this year. I am probably escalating too quickly expecting results that not even roids would give me...

The thing is i want to qualify into a competition that starts 3 months from now, so trying my best to find the better way.

I decided to go for a natural test booster, usually used for after cycle of trt or something around those lines. Went to the better reviewed one, Animal stak.

Read some reviews and apparently it would give me around 4 to 5 pounds if used correctly. The cycle lasts 21 days and it has little to no side effects. I think it is a good way to start.

Since tomorrow is a rest day and sunday as well, i think i will start on monday, and will keep you updated on my process.

If you are not sure what to do, and are afraid to take a big leap, begin with this. Animal products are accesible and really good i think.

really pumped to see some gainz

You gotta do what you're comfortable with, let us know if you get benefits from that.

When I checked into natural T boosters, I did find some users posting their bloodwork showing some improvement. I remember an hcgenerate user showing about a 110 ng/dl gain from roughly 400 to low 500's ng/dl, though I've also read of much more modest or non-existent improvements.

If your T levels are deficient (ie below 400 ng/dl), getting them into range will have benefits. If you're already in range, going higher up the scale won't make much of a difference, unless you're going to supraphysical levels with 'roids.

 

[MrFish]

When picking a SARM I considered LGD-4033, as it was consistently reported as getting better LBM gains than the other SARMs.

The main thing that stopped me is the greater side effects--many ostarine users were able to take it without needing anything on-cycle or afterwards, while the LGD seemed to call for a PCT run afterwards. Some users suggested having cycle support, and at that point I'd be tempted to go for the gold and use steroids instead.

Have you noticed any sides besides the lower libido? Are you planning on PCT when you're done?

As far as I've read LGD's side effects, if you've got the pure stuff, are all typical to T production suppression. So lower libido is one of the sides one might experience.

I haven't experienced any other sides and as far as I know there shouldn't be any.

I'm not going to run a PCT cycle as I've read reports that state T production should be at normal levels within 2 weeks naturally. Also, running PCT comes with it's own possible sides which I'd like to avoid.

 

[YoungAngel1]

Where are you guys getting your SARMs from? This might better suit my needs. I know taking test by needle injection is probably the most proven gamble, but the sides that can come to it seem pretty scary.

 

[CPG]

Where are you guys getting your SARMs from? This might better suit my needs. I know taking test by needle injection is probably the most proven gamble, but the sides that can come to it seem pretty scary.

In the US SARMs are legal so you can just order them online (to buy anyway, they're considered performance enhancing and are banned from competition by the World Anti-Doping Agency).

There are a number of supplement companies selling various mixes of ostarine, I went with GLL Chris's mix from his company--you can find a link in my first post in this thread [I have no affiliation]. I heard of a couple different formulas, like one company whose pills combine ostarine with an anti-estrogen, though that seems pointless to me.

I think it's the same for LGD-4033, however, I didn't research purchase options for that one.

 

[MrFish]

Where are you guys getting your SARMs from? This might better suit my needs. I know taking test by needle injection is probably the most proven gamble, but the sides that can come to it seem pretty scary.

Exactly why I went the SARM route.

I've read good things about http://www.sarms1.com/. If I were in the US I would have ordered from them. But I can't vouch for them, as I have ordered my stuff elsewhere.

I ordered from a UK seller which received positive reviews: http://receptorchem.co.uk/. Their stuff is legit and they deliver promptly.

 

[YoungAngel1]

How low is your libido getting? Are you supplementing it with anything?

 

[Menace]

I've ordered ostarine from Southern Sarms (http://www.southernsarms.com/ ). No problems. Can't say I noticed too much of an effect from ostarine, and this is dosing at 25 mg/day for 1 month. Interested in this LGD-4033. Since I'm on TRT, I don't PCT matters for me (but please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[Menace]

I'm currently in my 7th week of an 8 week cycle LGD-4033. I've packed on 11lbs and my performance keeps increasing steadily. Each week I set new PR's.

What are your dosages? What's the bro "accepted dose" ?

 

[MrFish]

How low is your libido getting? Are you supplementing it with anything?

It's not gone or anything, but I do notice it being lower. Normally I have a pretty high libido and can get horny for no particular reason. That hasn't happened for the last couple of weeks.
My supplements consist of natural T boosters like zinc and vitamin D3.

What are your dosages? What's the bro "accepted dose" ?

I started off with 5mg/d for two weeks. Then upped to 8mg/d for another two weeks. Now I'm at 10mg/d. The commonly accepted dosage is anywhere between 5mg and 15mg daily.

I started noticing the sides after switching to 10mg/d. It could be related to the dosage but it could also be because I was already multiple weeks into my cycle at that point, can't tell for sure.
What I do feel is that there wasn't much of a difference in regards to performance between 8mg and 10mg. I actually felt best on 8 and would advise that dosage. My next cycle will be 8 weeks of 8mg/d.

I was actually in the process of writing a post about my diet, supplement intake, workout regime and PED usage. I'll finish that up and put a link to it here once it's done.