Normies and coronavirus

bucky

Ostrich
Other Christian
I should of stated, all of the above mentioned have been vaccinated.
Clown world. I heartily agree that there just doesn't seem to be any benefit to getting vaccinated, at least for most people. It's my understanding that the vaccines do absolutely nothing to prevent transmission, which seems to line up with what you're saying here.

I'll concede that if someone in the high risk categories (very old, very obese, etc.) believes the vaccines really help against symptoms, OK, maybe they should make a personal decision to get the injection. Maybe. That said, it should never be on pain of losing their job or something like that.

But for the vast majority of people, since there's no obvious benefit and there could be downsides, it seems like a no brainer to me that that you shouldn't get it. That's without even considering the implications of letting the powers that be set the precedent of mandatory injections, which to me is an even bigger problem.
 

Pinch

Robin
Other Christian
Yes, that's exactly what I said above.

I was very afraid of COVID when the "pandemic" started. It's strange to thing of it now, but so was most of RVF. We saw those scary videos of people dropping dead from it in the streets over in China that we didn't realize were fake at the time. We knew the MSM often lies, but surely, we thought, they wouldn't deceive us about something this serious. There were active threads here about megadosing vitamin C to survive it, things like that. Coincidentally, I just found my big bottle of unfinished vitamin C from last year this evening.

Then after a few months it dawned on me that I didn't know anyone who'd even caught COVID, or "coronavirus" as we called it back then. I had a coworker who's father in law died from it, but the coworker was in his sixties, so I'd guess the man who died was at least in his eighties. Ron Paul pointed out that most of the COVID deaths weren't probably actually caused by COVID because, as he put it, "when you subsidize something, you get more of it." There was just a general lack of evidence that an actual plague was going on, and many pretty simple explanations for the claims in the MSM to the contrary. The true believers shifted from threatening us with imminent death to threats of "permanent lung damage" (remember that?) but I rapidly realized I didn't know anyone who'd had that either.

Then the vaccines, or "vaccines" came out. All the normies I know in the blue state where I lived still somehow believed we were going through some modern day Black Death and jumped at getting it, wanted it as soon as possible. I shook my head, but whatever. Vox Day and his ilk started their prophecies of imminent suffering and doom for the mudbloods. Not gonna lie, I got scared for my family because they're all a bunch of goodwhite tradcons and SJWs. Then nothing happened to them or the other goodwhites I know who keep enthusiastically getting whatever injections the TV tells them they need to get to continue being good people.

You can see the pattern, I think.

Neither COVID or the vaccines seem to have much effect on most people. Yes, most of the views that the vaccines are safe come from the MSM. I don't disbelieve things just because they're reported in the MSM. Orwell once said that the fact that the Party claims something is true is not evidence that it is false. Will there be long term effects from the vaccines? Definitely possible. I don't imagine a situation where you'll be able to point at dying mudbloods and laugh and say "AH HA!!! I was right all along" because whatever the effects, the MSM will almost surely have other explanations that normie goodwhites will lap up. But who knows.


The legacy media outlets have straight up fabricated, manipulated and outright lied so many times in the past six years. Even over the past year, the amount of flip flopping and damage control is enough for me to conclude that nothing they say should ever be taken seriously. I usually take everything they say with a massive grain of salt or consider it false and seek out alternative sources first.

I truly hope that the vaccines are not going to cause many problems and that we might be wrong about a few specifics. I would never laugh or mock somebody who passed away from a mistake. It's not about being right in this situation but the insanity has been charging forward so quickly, I think we're all waiting or hoping it will change course and end. These adverse reactions, as terrible as they are, almost seem like a sign that a massive shift in public awareness is going to come soon. Especially now that the pressure and manipulation has come down to the kids. It's the most shameful thing I've ever witnessed but I do believe it's waking people up fast.

Covid has driven people absolutely insane. The vaccines are just a consolation prize for their troubles. Theatrics, no real solutions. It's had a massive effect on all of us.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Other Christian
The legacy media outlets have straight up fabricated, manipulated and outright lied so many times in the past six years. Even over the past year, the amount of flip flopping and damage control is enough for me to conclude that nothing they say should ever be taken seriously. I usually take everything they say with a massive grain of salt or consider it false and seek out alternative sources first.

I truly hope that the vaccines are not going to cause many problems and that we might be wrong about a few specifics. I would never laugh or mock somebody who passed away from a mistake. It's not about being right in this situation but the insanity has been charging forward so quickly, I think we're all waiting or hoping it will change course and end. These adverse reactions, as terrible as they are, almost seem like a sign that a massive shift in public awareness is going to come soon. Especially now that the pressure and manipulation has come down to the kids. It's the most shameful thing I've ever witnessed but I do believe it's waking people up fast.

Covid has driven people absolutely insane. The vaccines are just a consolation prize for their troubles. Theatrics, no real solutions. It's had a massive effect on all of us.
All true. Even when the MSM says something that's technically true, it's almost always wrapped in deception.

The part about vaccinating kids enrages me. What a bunch of ghouls, the people who want this.
 

GuitarVH

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I truly hope that the vaccines are not going to cause many problems and that we might be wrong about a few specifics. I would never laugh or mock somebody who passed away from a mistake. It's not about being right in this situation but the insanity has been charging forward so quickly, I think we're all waiting or hoping it will change course and end. These adverse reactions, as terrible as they are, almost seem like a sign that a massive shift in public awareness is going to come soon. Especially now that the pressure and manipulation has come down to the kids. It's the most shameful thing I've ever witnessed but I do believe it's waking people up fast.

I hope so too but I'm not that optimistic about it. Most of my family, just like many of yours, has gone injection crazy. It doesn't matter what you say to them if you're lucky enough to even get them to listen to anything. The only hope is a few in the younger generation are starting to understand the situation much more than the older generation. That's actually pretty positive. The brainwashing of the "over 40" crowd is pretty bad.
 

Lian

Sparrow
Gold Member
Except maybe in March 2020 when the scaremongering hazmat pics were going viral and we were all waiting to see what would happen, after April I was never worried about covid at all and assumed the charade would be over by that summer, greatly underestimating the madness of the herd. I never considered getting a vaccine once they rolled out. Looking at the numbers, my risk profile, and the overall situation, it would have been astronomically stupid to do so.

I eventually got covid according to the tests anyway (I would have stayed home, I only went wanting to get a recovery cert if positive). It sucked for weeks, especially the peak coughing/breathing difficulty, and I'm fairly fit. Then I recovered completely, like after any cold or flu.


Other than a couple people who felt unwell or had some soreness for a day or two, I don't know anyone who had any negative effects from the vaccines, and except some fellow badthinkers almost everyone in my circles has had them. If someone close to you has had serious issues, my deepest condolences, if they did it due to coercion I'd be seeing red.

With such huge numbers of doses given there are bound to be outliers, even just incompetence in administering them or faulty batches, and just like the screeching, mentally deranged plane Karens on the other side who helped turn a bad cold into the black plague, I do think there's a tendency for people on our side to do the same, especially since we're fighting not just them but the huge money/power incentivizes behind them. Plenty of reputable experts like Dr. McCullough who are researching and using preventative protocols like HCQ/Ivermectin/VitD/Zinc, and actively fighting the mandates and coercion, are even today pro-covid vaccine and have taken it themselves.

For what it's worth my current best guess is once the final analysis is done, they probably did help a little bit for the very elderly/vulnerable, just enough to have plausible deniability and justify all the money made (and bribery/corruption by those in government signing the contracts), they were close to but not 100% useless for the majority who took them, and no long-term side effects for the overwhelming majority.

Still, I think due to the widespread, unapologetic, and blatant violation of the Nuremberg Code, if even one single person is proved to have been coerced against his will into taking this which was then linked to a life-altering injury or death, which does seem likely to be the case in at least one if not many instances, there are numerous people who will deserve to be publicly hanged.
 
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Redcrosse

Woodpecker
Other Christian
With such huge numbers of doses given there are bound to be outliers, even just incompetence in administering them or faulty batches, and just like the screeching, mentally deranged plane Karens on the other side who helped turn a bad cold into the black plague, I do think there's a tendency for people on our side to do the same, especially since we're fighting not just them but the huge money/power incentivizes behind them.
We do have reliable statistical analyses enabling ballpark estimates of the number of dead from the Pfizer jewce, and it’s safe to say close to 400,000 people have been killed by them in America alone. That’s not screeching, that’s straight number crunching:

 

Lian

Sparrow
Gold Member
We do have reliable statistical analyses enabling ballpark estimates of the number of dead from the Pfizer jewce, and it’s safe to say close to 400,000 people have been killed by them in America alone. That’s not screeching, that’s straight number crunching:

Obviously a vaccine killing 400k Americans is a shocking, even if it is a small percentage of the countless hundreds of millions, such raw numbers are huge, even one single person if coerced would merit a thorough investigation, at the very least. But let's dig in a bit...

I had never heard of Steve Kirsch before, had you? I can't find info that he has any background at all in the field, except that he runs the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation: https://www.vacsafety.org

What's that?

Well, according to the WHOIS lookup, the site was created less than three months ago:

Yet apparently Dr. McCullough and Dr. Malone with whom we're all familiar are "backing" it: https://www.vacsafety.org/about

What, exactly, does "backing" mean? As far as I can tell, it doesn't give us any clues.

But let's take a great leap of faith and say there is a strong (or any meaningful) association between these world-renowned experts and this guy. Now you've got one of them (I've read about Dr. Malone, don't know his vaccine stance), Dr. McCullough, arguing against the mandates and coercion, advocating and utilizing early protocols, yet talking about the potential benefits of the vaccine, advocating taking it in some cases, and has taken it himself and given it to his family, while this Kirsch guy is fearmongering the hell out of it. That strikes me as extremely odd, doesn't it?

Now look at the link you gave. The 388k estimate is based on an "under-reporting factor" of 45, and 9.1k deaths in VAERs. VAERs which is just a reporting system in the first place, with hundreds of millions of doses, is it not possible there might be issues with even just that 9.1k number, especially given the widespread chaos of the last two years?

Anyway, where does he get the 45x multiplier?

First, he admits that it could be totally wrong:
"Some people have quibbled with that assumption, including my friend Professor John Ioannidis, who argued that there is no evidence that that is true and it could be the other way around. It’s a fair point and I told John it’s only an estimate and I’m happy to modify it when we have more data."

Who is this Professor? A simple search tells us he's a well established scientist and doctor at Stanford, of high expertise and experience like both Dr. Malone, and Dr. McCullough. But just like with these two, we have no evidence that Dr. Ioannidis has any association whatsoever with this guy, either. Just as his above quote could be representing a long, intellectual discussion over a coffee, his "I told John" could just have easily been an email to him that was promptly deleted or ignored.

Then, he tells us where he gets the multiplier, by linking to someone called "WayneTheDBA":

But first, who is WayneTheDBA? He tells you here https://vaersanalysis.info/about/:

"I am just a concerned citizen reporting on often overlooked public data regarding adverse events related to the new Covid-19 vaccines. I work with data for a living and have been in the technology field for over two decades.

Ironic fact about me: I spent the better part of a decade building websites for big Pharma. There is likely not a single big Pharma company I have not built a website for."

So... a website designer.

And on this Wayne fellow's site, as support for his claim he actually links to another sparse, questionable site, with text citing "Kirsch/Rose/Crawford," none of whom as far as I can tell have any expert background at all, either. So Kirsch about whom we know very little linked to someone, who links to another three randoms, two others and himself.

Don't get me wrong, do I think there have been injuries and deaths? Yes, it definitely seems so. There's all sorts of evil and wrong going on with this, on the individual level, and with various groups often with competing interests. I'm just trying to take a balanced view.

With all the misinformation and distortion of reality over the last two years, using my own eyes, my own experience and wisdom, has been by far the most reliable way to navigate this. In the beginning, quickly I saw myself that covid was hugely overhyped, people were in fact not dropping dead in the streets, and hospitals were not overcrowded. Just as with this, billions of doses globally have been given out, yet no one I know or they know is dropping dead from those either.
 
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JoeChill

Robin
Protestant
Gold Member
I've managed to convert one normie to covid-19 skepticism. Giving him a free copy of Alex Berenson's "Unreported Truths About Covid-19 and Lockdowns: Combined Parts 1-3" helped a lot. It's a good entry-level point for normies.

Also, I find it very curious (and disappointing) that the discussion over the covid-19 vaccines is entirely focused on whether or not the vaccines are helpful or harmful. There is almost no focus on the fact that aborted fetal cells were used in the development of these injections nor has the MSM ever refuted this. For me, this is reason enough to reject the injections as unethical.
 
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Redcrosse

Woodpecker
Other Christian
But let's take a great leap of faith and say there is a strong (or any meaningful) association between these world-renowned experts and this guy. Now you've got one of them (I've read about Dr. Malone, don't know his vaccine stance), Dr. McCullough, arguing against the coercion and advocating and utilizing early protocols, also talking about the potentially benefits of the vaccine, who advocates taking it in some cases, and has taken it himself, given it to his family, while this Kirsch guy is fearmongering the hell out of it. That strikes me as extremely odd, doesn't it?
No, it doesn’t strike me as odd. Malone is strongly against the vaccines and says they’re dangerous. In other words, his stance is consistent with Kirsch’s. As for McCullough, he has to tread carefully as he can lose his medical license if he says the wrong thing. There is no doubt in my mind he would be more severe in his critique if he could afford to. Almost every critic of these jabs frames it as an issue of oersonal chouce, they don’t want to receive the dreaded label “anti-vaxxer.”
Now look at the link you gave. The 388k estimate is based on an "under-reporting factor" of 45, and 9.1k deaths in VAERs. VAERs which is just a reporting system in the first place, with countless millions of doses, is it not possible there might be issues with even just that 9.1k number, especially given the widespread chaos of the last two years?

Anyway, where does he get the 45x multiplier?
The 45x multiplier is consistent with other past studies which have estimated the VAERS underreporting of adverse reactions ranges from a factor of 10 to 100. It’s not some odd quirk or anomaly of Kirsch’s to believe this, it’s very much in line with previous investigations into the accuracy - or lack thereof - of VAERS.


The US system for reporting severe adverse effects of vaccines is broken.

Barbara Loe Fisher, of the private National Vaccine Information Center, has put together a reasonable analysis:

“But how many children have [adverse] vaccine reactions every year? Is it really only one in 110,000 or one in a million who are left permanently disabled after vaccination? Former FDA Commissioner David Kessler observed in 1993 that less than 1 percent of doctors report adverse events following prescription drug use. [See DA Kessler, ‘Introducing MEDWatch,’ JAMA, June 2, 1993: 2765-2768]”

“There have been estimates that perhaps less than 5 or 10 percent of doctors report hospitalizations, injuries, deaths, or other serious health problems following vaccination. The 1986 Vaccine Injury Act contained no legal sanctions for not reporting; doctors can refuse to report and suffer no consequences.”

“Even so, each year about 12,000 reports are made to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System [VAERS]; parents as well as doctors can make those reports. [See RT Chen, B. Hibbs, ‘Vaccine safety,’ Pediatric Annals, July 1998: 445-458]”

“However, if that number represents only 10 percent of what is actually occurring, then the actual number may be 120,000 vaccine-adverse events [per year]. If doctors report vaccine reactions as infrequently as Dr. Kessler said they report prescription-drug reactions, and the number 12,000 is only 1 percent of the actual total, then the real number may be 1.2 million vaccine-adverse events annually.”
Kirsch’s analysis is also consistent with what other researchers have estimated:


Edited to add: I don’t want people to be misled by Lian’s comments into thinking Kirsch is somehow not a serious researcher, so here’s a much earlier paper he co-wrote with his colleagues Jessica Rose and Matthew Crawford that effectively dismantles the fake “safe and effective” narrative about these jabs:

 
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Lian

Sparrow
Gold Member
His "colleagues" Jessica Rose and Matthew Crawford... who are they? I couldn't find anything. To me, it looks like three randoms we have no idea about publishing a PDF on the internet.

Nowhere did I claim the vaccines are universally "safe and effective" if that's what you're implying, though we'd have to define those terms specifically. I'm just saying, simply, with billions of doses administered, there are going to be outliers, and even a tiny percentage can add up in absolute numbers, just as covid deaths, or deaths from the flu. Perhaps in some cases it may make sense to take one, for me it never would, if I had a family I would not allow it, and probably for the majority it makes no sense as well, but rather than it being a black and white death sentence, there is likely a risk/reward analysis to be taken into account, however obfuscated and skewed that analysis has become due to censorship, money/power incentives, and media bias.
No, it doesn’t strike me as odd. Malone is strongly against the vaccines and says they’re dangerous. In other words, his stance is consistent with Kirsch’s. As for McCullough, he has to tread carefully as he can lose his medical license if he says the wrong thing. There is no doubt in my mind he would be more severe in his critique if he could afford to. Almost every critic of these jabs frames it as an issue of oersonal chouce, they don’t want to receive the dreaded label “anti-vaxxer.”
None of that website, and his supposed "backers" and friends who are world-renowned physicians and scientists, who appear nowhere together and except for this random guy's word we have no evidence of any association, on a website created three months ago, strikes you as odd? None of it passes the smell test, but that's just me.

Also, three randoms (who exactly are they again?) publishing 60 pages of verbiage, charts and figures doesn't necessarily make someone a "serious researcher." Look at the team behind Miles Mathis, unless you unquestioningly believe everything written over there, too.

Serious researchers tend to do that for a living, or have lifelong experience and expertise in their respective fields, or publish in journals, etc. Like McCullough, the most published Cardiologist in history, for example, with over 600 published peer-reviewed papers.

Anyway, I didn't know Malone was universally strongly against them and says they're "dangerous," if you could post some links? Not nitpicking, actually asking. The little searching I did seems to point to him advocating a risk/benefit analysis on them, and pushing for more government transparency in terms of risk.

McCullough, what evidence do you have that he's treading so carefully that someone of his expertise, influence, and obvious concern for patient well-being especially given his strong advocacy for early treatment protocols, is going to allow or even in some cases advocate his own patients to get the vaccine if he knows they're universally harmful or even deadly, rather than subject to a risk/reward analysis? You don't think he himself taking it, and if I remember correctly his family, is not enough evidence of him believing what he says? You seem to be accusing him of willingly and knowingly causing numerous deaths by not speaking out armed with what he knows through his expertise to be the truth, in order to save his medical license, which would be a tremendous accusation. As far as I can tell he's always looking for the truth, and speaks his mind.
 

Redcrosse

Woodpecker
Other Christian
Also, three randoms (who exactly are they again?) publishing 60 pages of verbiage, charts and figures doesn't necessarily make someone a "serious researcher." Look at the team behind Miles Mathis, unless you unquestioningly believe everything written over there, too.
And yet, you failed utterly to refute anything they argued. As you also failed to establish that they are “randoms.”

Characterising their paper as mere “verbiage” says more about you - and your evident inability to formulate a coherent argument of any sort, or even to follow basic step-by-step arguments as laid out in the paper - than about them.

Maybe GuitarVH can chime in with what specific logical fallacies you used, because I’m sure you used many.
Anyway, I didn't know Malone was universally strongly against them and says they're "dangerous," if you could post some links? Not nitpicking, actually asking. The little searching I did seems to point to him advocating a risk/benefit analysis on them, and pushing for more government transparency in terms of risk.
He’s tweeted numerous times about the dangers and warned his readers not to take it. It was much more than just a risk benefit analysis.
 

GuitarVH

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
And yet, you failed utterly to refute anything they argued. As you also failed to establish that they are “randoms.”

Characterising their paper as mere “verbiage” says more about you - and your evident inability to formulate a coherent argument of any sort, or even to follow basic step-by-step arguments as laid out in the paper - than about them.

Maybe GuitarVH can chime in with what specific logical fallacies you used, because I’m sure you used many.

I think he based much of his analysis against Kirsch using the "appeal to authority (or lack of)" fallacy.
 

Lian

Sparrow
Gold Member
I think he based much of his analysis against Kirsch using the "appeal to authority (or lack of)" fallacy.
I almost proactively said as much, I'm doing a rudimentary analysis best described as opinion, sifting through the analyses of others. As laymen we all to a degree have to rely on deciphering authority plus experience plus educating ourselves on the subject to an acceptable degree plus pattern recognition, we all do it, even the three sitting at that table for subjects about which they know little and which some of us here may know lots. I myself am not a covid researcher, scientist, or physician, maybe some of you guys are.

I didn't read "Deaths.PDF," I just flicked through it quickly; I'm already strongly against the vaccines in general. The two premises at the top, "1. The vaccines kill more people than they save 2. The vaccines have killed over 150,000 Americans so far," I of course have no idea but neither of those struck me as so far fetched to not have a plausible case even if it does use a multiplier that is as far as I can tell educated guesswork given the novelty of the covid phenomenon, especially since hundreds of millions of people at almost zero risk of serious complications from covid are being aggressively coerced. By verbiage, I just meant phrases like, "Nobody seems to want to do that for some odd reason. We can’t fathom why...", something that would never appear in a research paper.

I stand by what are basically just my opinions or first-hand experience, whether I'm right or wrong, though I wish I looked more into the possible Kirsch/Malone connection before and saved myself looking stupid, apologies again. For the nth time, I will never get it, nor permit my family to get it, yet, anecdotally, no one I know nor anyone they know has had any problems, and some of the leading experts on "our" side like Dr. McCullough advocate for it in some cases, though for the majority of people it likely makes no sense and the benefits do not outweigh the risks, and under no circumstance whatsoever should it be coerced. I'm just trying to add a bit of a balanced perspective, lest we get off the rails about what the reality of it actually is.

Two years into this I'm just drained and want to be a bit optimistic, and the doomsday mass genocide stuff is exhausting... Thanks for the replies, I'll respectfully bow out of this thread for now.
 
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Samseau

Owl
Orthodox
Gold Member
It wouldn't surprise me if 440K deaths occurred from the COVID not-vaxes, because our media is perfectly capable of covering up a genocide.

Remember the Christmas parade that was ran over by the insane Black dude who hated Whites? A dozen dead, dozens more injured for life, including children. Was memory-holed in a day. This is a media easily on the same tier as any other historical genocide media, easily on the same level as USSR, CCP, Nazi, or Young Turks level of media capable of covering up a genocide with complete indifference.

Even if 2 million died from the not-vaxes, how would anyone know? Could easily be hidden and you'd have no idea. Whose to say that the majority of the deaths do not occur among the elderly, so again anyone under 40 has no idea what is happening? Thousands of elders die every day, many of them do not even get an obituary let alone make the news.

At the same time, the VEARS database being 44 times underrepresented based on historical averages may be a flawed approach; surely, in the age of the internet and with the amount of talk about vaccines, people will be more likely to report their injuries to VEARS? The number could easily be only 22 times underrepresented.

We will have a better picture once excess death data is published on 2021.
 
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