Normies and the Russian-Ukraine war

Elipe

Ostrich
Protestant
Can anyone here fill in some blanks for me on this? "Putin wants the return of the Soviet Union" is a common rally cry I hear from my normie-right friends in favor of backing Ukraine so much.

Russian soldiers carrying the hammer and sickle red flag, plus Donbass babushkas confronting Ukrainian solders with it may seem understandable in light of the "great Patriotic War" idea. But it is unpersuasive to normie-right people I know. They just see - Russia bad, Putin wants USSR!

How dominant is the "return of the USSR" idea amongst Russians?
Keep in mind that an USSR run by Russians is markedly different from the USSR that actually happened. It's MAGA for Russia, basically, except MRGA doesn't quite roll off the tongue as easily. I don't think they're thinking of throwing millions of Russians into gulags this time around. And I would tell normies worried about the USSR: be worried about the USSA instead! Be worried about the communism in your own backyard!
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
Keep in mind that an USSR run by Russians is markedly different from the USSR that actually happened. It's MAGA for Russia, basically, except MRGA doesn't quite roll off the tongue as easily. I don't think they're thinking of throwing millions of Russians into gulags this time around. And I would tell normies worried about the USSR: be worried about the USSA instead! Be worried about the communism in your own backyard!
There are apparently movements in Russia which want to restore the Russian Empire, or something similar to it, instead of a Soviet Union.

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Handsome Creepy Eel

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
Did the poll specify that it was white people being asked? Also, you trust polls?

I'm "white", European heritage mixture. Probably a lot of people here are. Should we go extinct? I don't blame Putin for the American ruling class trying to destroy its own citizens.
I'm sorry about my harsh words, I only mean that in the sense of being outraged about people in western (and mostly white) countries being so dumb to repeatedly fall for obvious hoaxes like this, ranging from Trump Russia to COVID-19 to now this. It's a massive survival instinct and common sense fail from those (predominantly white) people.

It's hard to imagine any other race acting against their own interests in such a blatant fashion simply because some guy in the newspaper told them to.
 

Papaya

Peacock
Gold Member
I'm sorry about my harsh words, I only mean that in the sense of being outraged about people in western (and mostly white) countries being so dumb to repeatedly fall for obvious hoaxes like this, ranging from Trump Russia to COVID-19 to now this. It's a massive survival instinct and common sense fail from those (predominantly white) people.

It's hard to imagine any other race acting against their own interests in such a blatant fashion simply because some guy in the newspaper told them to.
Result of innate cultural kindness, generosity, and trust being (((exploited))) as vulnerabilities for 3-4 (maybe more) generations now
 

Elipe

Ostrich
Protestant
Result of innate cultural kindness, generosity, and trust being (((exploited))) as vulnerabilities for 3-4 (maybe more) generations now
For all the whining non-whites do about colonialism, to their credit there is one thing they get right about it. Colonialism made the world safe and trustworthy for whites. I remember this meme but I can't find it anymore. This meme had an image of a pretty young girl at a concert looking very innocent and unaware of what's going on around her and she's obviously just enjoying herself carefree at the concert, and next to her there's this guy decked out in full SWAT gear with a big gun and a very anxious look in his eyes like he's being as situationally aware as possible. Whites were that girl, and their governments that guy in the SWAT gear looking like he's about to pop a capillary in his forehead.

It's easy to be a gullible boomer when you're literally on the top of the world and your government makes sure it stays that way. The difference today is that the government is no longer making sure it stays that way.
 

Max Roscoe

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Result of innate cultural kindness, generosity, and trust being (((exploited))) as vulnerabilities for 3-4 (maybe more) generations now
Yes.
I get angry when I see Ukranian flags or hear people repeating stupid propaganda or saying Putin should die.

But we need to remember that most of these people have good intent, and our anger is misplaced towards them, but instead belongs to the leaders and media who are lying to them.

In an alternate timeline, these same feelings would be directed towards the people of Yemen or Palestine, if only the media talked about them the way they talk about Ukraine, and then the sentiments would not be so worrisome.

In my mind I always picture the enthusiastic flag waving young girls at a Hitler parade and the most disgusting anti-fa rioters and remind myself that these are essentially the same picture, under different leaders.

It's all a matter of how you direct the energy.
Just like this forum could be a giant proliferation of fornication methods, or a path to salvation. It's essentially the same audience either way (disaffected men age 20-60).

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mountainaire

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
I recently spoke with an old friend/acquaintance. This same person was telling me two years ago about refrigerator trucks and bodies piling up from COVID, refused to leave her house and was sterilizing her grocery deliveries with clorox wipes. I remember trying to get her to see that she was a victim of propaganda, to no effect. She insisted she was behaving rationally and I was the foolish one.

So I visit her again, and of course this time she's going on and on about Russia/Ukraine. COVID is just a distant memory now. She had the Ukraine flag displayed in her window, despite probably never being aware of this country just a few short weeks ago.

She was basically repeating every single western media propaganda talking point you can think of, even if they contradicted each other. Like how the Russian military is getting whipped and how they're completely incompetent, but then the next sentence saying we should be sending American troops over there to fight Russia because Ukraine needs help. She claimed Russia was "communist" and that someone should assassinate Putin. Keep in mind this is like a 65 year old liberal, leftist woman, with a college degree.

I noticed she had a kind of nervous tick, like some neurological twitch or something that wasn't there the last time I saw her. Of course she got ALL the shots, and told me about how sick they made her, yet she persisted.

It really is frightening the level of control the elite propagandists have over the minds of some people. She is a boomer college educated woman who divorced and never had any kids, so the demographic fits. Those types a lot of the time fancy themselves as smarter than everyone else, so you can't really tell them anything, especially a "millennial" like myself.

Crazy how some people will literally fall for every single trap that has been set for them, and never take a step back and try to figure out why they keep getting misled...
 
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SlickyBoy

Ostrich
Same here, I keep seeing ukranian flags everywhere, especially on the vehicles.

Hard to judge, but I would say most of this pro-ukranian virtue signaling is driven by hatred of Russia, not genuine care for the well being of ukranians.
I'd say it's probably pretty easy to judge. Those people likely have zero idea of Ukraine as a country and could not find it on a map six months ago.
 

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian
I'd say it's probably pretty easy to judge. Those people likely have zero idea of Ukraine as a country and could not find it on a map six months ago.
My mother keeps saying Ukraine is beautiful and the people are so amazing there and she loves Zelensky. However, she only knows what she hears from CNN and NBC news and ignores anything negative I sent about Ukraine.

1) Beautiful: Some buildings and scenery are nice there, but compared to many other European nations (to include Russia), it seems nowhere near the top of the pack. Russian architecture likely outdoes Ukraine if one wants to compare similar styles. France, Germany, Austria, Croatia, and Slovenia likely top Ukraine when considering beautiful landscapes and cities and towns. I have read many lists of best European nations to visit and Ukraine was never on them (it might appear on a few now).


2) People: Every nation has good and bad people. However, it ranks highly on corruption indexes which reflects very badly on the people. One must add the high divorce rate shows that mistrust is very high there, even among locals. Ukraine might be safer than some nations, but compared to many European nations, it is high (although much better than Russia).


3) My mother thinks Ukraine is a democracy and praises Zelensky which is a laugh. If Trump did these same things, 90% of the slava Ukraini crowd would have called for his head:


Of course, normies don't want to hear these things when they are gushing on about how Ukraine is so amazing and pure. Even if you hate Russia, this doesn't automatically make Ukraine great. Americans still haven't learned from the 1980's when we supported Iraq and Afghanistan against evil USSR and Iran.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
My mother keeps saying Ukraine is beautiful and the people are so amazing there and she loves Zelensky. However, she only knows what she hears from CNN and NBC news and ignores anything negative I sent about Ukraine.



3) My mother thinks Ukraine is a democracy and praises Zelensky which is a laugh. If Trump did these same things, 90% of the slava Ukraini crowd would have called for his head:
Most people can barely distinguish Amsterdam and the Netherlands, or point out in any metric of reality where Poland, Ukraine or Hungary lies. Ukraine has been the no 1 corrupt country globally for years and is the poorest country in Europe only 2nd to Moldova (another fun one to ask to point out on a map).
 

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
Ukraine as we know it barely qualifies as a country. It is as artificial a construct as were Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, cobbled together in the post-USSR honeymoon phase. Reality is it isn't a united land of 44 million, it's a province meant for partitioning.
 
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