North Korea Conflict Thread

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
MrLemon said:
Suits said:
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told CNN Monday there is no timeline for when North Korea will denuclearize the peninsula,

I see nothing wrong

UN weapons inspectors get the final say on those. We all know the drill by now.....

Could be civilian, could be something else. It's not like they never had any before.

Folks forget South Africa had 6 nukes at one point and now have none.

Just sayin.

Even if they still kept them, the standoff/war ending is what's most important.
 
TravelerKai said:
MrLemon said:
Suits said:
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told CNN Monday there is no timeline for when North Korea will denuclearize the peninsula,

I see nothing wrong

UN weapons inspectors get the final say on those. We all know the drill by now.....

Could be civilian, could be something else. It's not like they never had any before.

Folks forget South Africa had 6 nukes at one point and now have none.

Just sayin.

Even if they still kept them, the standoff/war ending is what's most important.

Yeah that's what I meant. First of all they have no obligation to immediately start dismantling anything since we've only met a grand total of once. Secondly, who cares? The goal is NOT to achieve some random level of denuclearization. The goal is to get McDonald's and Starbucks and vacation condos in North Korea, to stuff their starving people with low cost American calories and add them to the American economic empire and have a lovely new way to piss off China. Nukes are only a smoke show and the God Emperor knows it.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
I'm not sure if people are actually starving in NK. Like Cuba, they went through a phase after the fall of the Soviets with their support pulled, but it's not quite the same situation as Venezuela. Sure it's not a roaring economy like SK's but according to observers who've traveled there recently, they're a bit further up on the Maslow Pyramid than what we often hear about the country.

As well, their women aren't as far gone as the hamsters in the West. NK encourages traditional family values and traditional gender roles. There are no women with tats or piercings in NK.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
Vegeta, what does the scouter say about Trump's trolling level?

It's over 9000!!!!!!!!!

Breitbart said:
South Korean Report: Mike Pompeo Gifts Kim Jong-un Elton John ‘Rocket Man’ CD

“The ‘Rocket Man’ CD was the subject of discussion during Trump’s lunch with Kim. Kim mentioned that Trump referred to him as ‘rocket man’ when tensions ran high last year,” the source said. “Trump then asked Kim if he knew the song and Kim said no.”
Trump reportedly wrote a message for Kim on the CD as well as sending a personal letter. If the report is true, Kim will now likely be the first North Korean within the country to listen to Elton John’s music.


https://www.breitbart.com/national-...o-gifts-kim-jong-un-elton-john-rocket-man-cd/
 

Batka

 
The talks appear to have hit a stumbling block.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...earization-talks-with-pompeo-regrettable.html

North Korea on Saturday accused the U.S. of undermining the spirit of last month’s summit between President Trump and Kim Jong Un after what it says were “regrettable” talks with a delegation led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

A statement by the North Korean Foreign Ministry, accusing the U.S. of trying to unilaterally pressure the country into abandoning its nuclear weapons, came shortly after Pompeo’s delegation left the country.
"We had expected that the U.S. side would offer constructive measures that would help build trust based on the spirit of the leaders' summit ... we were also thinking about providing reciprocal measures," Pyongyang's Foreign Ministry said in a statement, according to The Associated Press.

My take on this is a follows:
1) NK could never be expected to agree to any denuclearisation process that requires it to make committed & verifiable steps in sequence ahead of the U.S. Any progress will only be achieved via simultaneous moves by both parties.

2) The Trump Admin is now in a corner. It cannot offer any concessions without first obtaining some tangible results from NK side - Congress & the media won’t allow it.

To sum up: as long as the US adopts the policy of the exceptionalist hegemon the result: Stalemate
 

Lunostrelki

Woodpecker
Given the frequency and timing of Kim Jong Un's trips to China, I can't help but think that Xi is using North Korea as a bargaining chip in the Sino-American trade war. The CCP needs to get Trump to take mercy on it or else the Chinese economy goes the way of the Soviets in a couple years. Meanwhile Trump would do well to make actual progress on North Korea so he can prepare for the 2020 election. China can help on this since they're the only ones who could make North Korea feel safe enough to reform, and they are almost certainly dragging their feet (if not actively encouraging North Korea to make more provocations) on this in order to extract concessions from America.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
Looks like the talks may have failed. Oh well. Trump got further than any other president in ending the conflict.

Accepting a nuclear NK makes sense technically, but that causes an arms race in East Asia that nobody wants. SK and Japan will start arming nukes.

That said, Asians love to save face and can learn how to sabre rattle like Westerners without going full retard.

That's a hard sell though. Who wants a nuclear Japan or South Korea? Taiwan might get nukes and open a huge can of worms that I cannot even begin to collect into a rational thought. A nuclear Taiwan fucks up the One China Policy, but at what cost?

NK has shit for credibility. If you let them keep arms and come at it from an economic standpoint of, partner with us (SK + USA) over China and we can make it worth your while, they might fuck that up too.

The Economic Cold War has started fellas. NK realized this and are looking for suitors, and they would even stab China in the back if they supposedly sided with China. The CCP in China knows this too and are likely playing it cool with NK as well.

NK really is the land of lousy options like this super good article by Harry J. Kazianis:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...aving-us-with-three-options-all-them-bad.html

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo seemingly failed to gain a single concession from North Korea after meetings Friday and Saturday in the communist nation’s capital of Pyongyang to discuss America’s demand that the North get rid its nuclear weapons.

In fact, it seems both sides can’t even agree on what was discussed or how the talks went, with the North now even threatening to walk away from its vague pledge to denuclearize.

Following Pompeo’s talks with high-ranking North Korean government official Kim Yong Chol, North Korea accused the Trump administration of making a “unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization” that was “deeply regrettable.”

In marked contrast, Pompeo called the talks “productive” and said: “These are complicated issues, but we made progress on almost all of the central issues.” However, Pompeo did not specify what progress was made.

Tellingly, North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un – who rules with an iron fist and is the only one with the power to approve substantive concessions to the U.S. – did not even meet with Pompeo Friday or Saturday, although he has met with Pompeo before. That alone is evidence that Pompeo walked away from the talks largely emptyhanded.

This disappointing trip by the secretary of state can only mean one thing: The Trump administration has reached the same point that every other U.S. administration – Democrat and Republican – has reached with North Korea. When negotiations get to the point where North Korea must make concessions on its nuclear program that are substantive, officials from the North cry foul – and walk away.

Kim Jong Un seems to be carrying on a tradition in international relations begun by his grandfather and father, who ruled North Korea before him: lie, lie and lie again – and drag out talks with adversaries as long as possible without making any real concessions.

Mike Pompeo is not naive. In fact, the New York Times reported Saturday: “Privately, Mr. Pompeo has said that he doubts Mr. Kim will ever give up his nuclear weapons. And those doubts have been reinforced in recent days by intelligence showing that North Korea, far from dismantling its weapons facilities, has been expanding them and taking steps to conceal the efforts from the United States.”

North Korea is truly the land of lousy options. I fear we are headed right back to the brink with North Korea, all over again.

All this places the Trump administration in an awful bind. Clearly, we have reached a fork in the road when it comes to our dealings with Kim Jong Un that is looking more and more like a dead end.

After countless mid- and lower-level contacts between U.S. and North Korean officials, three sets of face-to-face talks between Pompeo and North Korean officials – and a historic summit between President Trump and Kim Jong Un in Singapore June 12 – America has received nothing but an ambiguous statement signed by Kim and President Trump in Singapore.

In that statement Kim reaffirmed his past pledge to “work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” without even defining what that means.

President Trump made a major concession simply by meeting with Kim, and then by halting joint military exercises between the U.S. and South Korea – a long-sought North Korean goal.

Once again, Pyongyang is following its tried and true diplomatic playbook of pocketing concessions and stalling for time.

This is where things get hard and the stakes jump dramatically. For there are only three possible paths for the Trump administration now, all of which are unappealing.

Option 1: A full U.S. military assault on North Korea to rid the world of Kim’s weapons of mass destruction.

Clearly, as I have laid out in these pages on several occasions, this a very risky gambit. There is virtually no way even our superpower-sized military can guarantee the destruction of as many as 65 nuclear weapons that North Korea is believed to possess.

North Korea’s nukes are scattered around the country and likely deep underground – so they can’t be destroyed in one bombing raid on a single target.

Following a U.S. attack on the North, Kim would have every incentive to counterattack with whatever nuclear weapons he has left – as well as his countless tons of chemical and as biological weapons. That would ensure that Seoul, Tokyo and maybe even Hawaii and major cities on America’s West Coast become the largest graveyards in human history.

This option if so horrific it is unlikely to be used by the U.S.

Option 2: A U.S. policy of containment of North Korea on steroids, or what the Trump administration called “maximum pressure.”

The idea of this option would be to cut North Korea off from the world diplomatically and economically.

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley would call for an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council, demanding a full export ban on North Korea, as well as the halting of all natural resources (such as oil) going to the North.

Unfortunately, the maximum pressure campaign could be tough to put back in place, because it would be completely dependent on China, which is not exactly happy with the Trump administration these days after President Trump slapped tariffs on Chinese imports and launched a trade war Friday.

With 90 percent or more of North Korea’s exports rolling through China in one form or another, it seems highly unlikely that Beijing has any incentive to help Washington.

China will now use North Korea as a bargaining chip on trade and perhaps even other disputes it has with the U.S. and other nations – such as Chinese territorial claims to Taiwan and parts of the South China Sea and East China Sea.

And there is already evidence to suggest Beijing won’t enforce existing sanctions on North Korea for long – and might already have started to pull back.

Option 3: Accepting North Korea as a nuclear power and moving on to deal with the bigger threat of containing China.

Since America already deals with other nations that have nuclear weapons – Russia, China, Britain, France, India, Pakistan and Israel – reality may dictate that we must reluctantly accept North Korea as a member of the nuclear club.

President Trump would surely be attacked on the right for being soft and on the left for changing his position if he accepts North Korean nukes, but doing this would allow the U.S. to increase its diplomatic efforts all over Asia to push back against the growth of Chinese power.

Also, with the nuclear issue removed and Kim Jong Un feeling secure – knowing that his regime has the ultimate insurance policy in place – many of the other security challenges the North poses to the U.S. could be settled once and for all.

For example, a peace treaty formally ending the Korean War – halted by an armistice in 1953 – could be signed.

There could be major arms control agreements signed limiting the size, scope and scale of North Korea’s weapons of mass destruction and missile programs, with international inspectors on the ground to ensure any promises made are promises kept.

The U.S. and South Korea could even remove economic sanctions on North Korea, allowing billions of dollars of investment to flow into the North. This might allow America and its allies a greater say in Pyongyang’s affairs – and maybe even dilute Beijing’s control.

But this all comes at a price. Accepting a nuclear North Korea could set off an arms race in the region, with Japan and South Korea possibly someday opting for their own nuclear weapons arsenals and increased missile defenses platforms. This could make China nervous, ensuring Beijing builds up its atomic arsenal and missile defenses as well.

Clearly, as many Asia hands love to point out, North Korea is truly the land of lousy options. We know one thing for certain: when it comes to Kim Jong Un, nothing is certain. Even after the Trump administration made important concessions, the North does not seem any closer to giving up its nukes.

I fear we are headed right back to the brink with North Korea, all over again.

Harry J. Kazianis (@grecianformula) is director of defense studies at the Center for the National Interest, founded by former President Richard M. Nixon. Click here, for more on Mr. Kazianis.
 

Fortis

Crow
Gold Member
Haha, now I don't seem so crazy when I was saying that we should not be taking what NK says at face value, do I?

Like I said, this opinion was informed by pessimism, but just a little knowledge of East Asia.

They have no real reason to speak honestly when everyone is trying to get a piece of their "pie." Whoever is able to get them to liberalize even a little bit stands to gain a ton since Asia is the place to be right now. Like Kai said, they're looking for suitors, so we should always make sure we're not just looking at their words. Always gotta be looking for the 2nd and 3rd order of things with them.

Like I said, it's not pessimism, it's just respect for how cunning East Asians and their governments are. If you think they're just talking, shaking hands and being 100% honest all the time, you stand to lose in negotiations.
 

Transsimian

Ostrich
Gold Member
China is playing a dangerous game.

Right now North Korea depends on China for cheap fuel, repatriation of dissidents and potential military support.

With nukes, North Korea no longer needs potential Chinese backing, to discourage American regime change. They also will no longer fear a 1979 Vietnam-style Chinese border attack, so there would be little reason for them not to send their own agents across the border to deal with the escapees themselves.
Due to sanctions, NK relies on Chinese fuel, but since Russia also shares a land border, fuel shipments can occur if the focus shifts from preventing nuclearisation to containing the PRC.

Perhaps most importantly, I cannot see any day where Tokyo/Seoul gets glassed but Beijing doesn't end up a parking lot. Either the Kim Regime does the big "fuck it"(unlikely, as they are rational actors who want to survive) or America treats NK as a proxy of the PRC and retaliates accordingly.

Re: an Arms race. South Korea had a nuclear programme and who knows if it ended or just went underground. I suspect they'll declare it within days of North Korean success, but of course that's just speculation on my part. Japan is a whole different kettle of fish; They have the tech and the nuclear infrastructure to be considered to have an effective retaliatory strike capacity, but nuclearisation is politically untenable due to the strong anti-nuclear movement.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
TravelerKai said:
Looks like the talks may have failed. Oh well. Trump got further than any other president in ending the conflict.

Seriously? Why are you suddenly eager to believe a random cuck somewhere at a random cuckservative "news" site? Heck, why would you even take anything that this person writes at face value?

I see no reason to trust the words of an IYI that produces industrial-grade-cucked sentences like "President Trump made a major concession simply by meeting with Kim, and then by halting joint military exercises between the U.S. and South Korea – a long-sought North Korean goal."

"Concessions". Oh man :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The Catalyst gets it:

The Catalyst said:

Why? Well, here is a short summary of this columnist propagandist's articles:

1) Bomb NK
2) Bomb NK
3) Bomb NK
4) Bomb NK
5) Trump sucks
6) Bomb NK
7) Bomb NK
8) Bomb NK
9) Trump sucks
10) Bomb Iran
11) Bomb Iran
12) Bomb NK
13) Bomb NK
14) Trump sucks
15) Israel is the best
16) Israel is the best
17) Bomb Iran
18) Bomb Iran
19) Bomb Iran
20) Trump sucks
21) Bomb Syria
22) Bomb Syria
23) Bomb Syria
24) Trump sucks
25) Bomb Russia
26) Bomb Russia
27) Bomb NK
28) Bomb NK
29) Muh optics
30) Trump sucks

:discussionclosed:
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
Multiple credible outlets reported the same things. It may not be over but it looks like NK is not willing to be honest anymore. Trump isn't going to change his mind either on what he will allow.

All in all if things go back to square one it just makes sanctions more important. Trump's meeting with Putin is necessary. The trade war with China makes it harder to keep the sanctions.

If Trump can put the sanctions back on him just as hard as before it will break him down again, and we can open the table up again.

For all we know China told them to act stupid until they get leverage for the trade war.
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
Kim has started wearing white (now dressing semi casual ??) and is also is publicly dissing other officials, and openly criticizing uncompleted construction projects.
Neither of these things ever happened before.








Kim Jong-un blasts delays in North Korean economic projects

17 July 2018

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44855699?


North Korean leader Kim Jong-un has launched an unusual barrage of criticism at officials over delays in completing economic projects. The country's leaders usually praise officials during factory visits. But this time state media said he was "speechless" a power plant was only 70% complete and "appalled" by hot-spring bathtubs "dirtier than fish tanks".

Pyongyang has long pushed for economic progress as the secondary aim alongside developing nuclear arms. Mr Kim's latest inspection tour took him to four sites in North Hamgyong province, bordering China. At Orangchon power station, he complained that only 70% of the facility had been completed, 17 years after construction began. At a hotel in the city of Yombunjin, he noted that six years into the construction project, plastering was still not finished. Visiting the Onpho holiday resort, he pointed out bathtubs that were "dirty, gloomy and unsanitary", state-run KCNA news agency reported. After visiting a bag factory, he said the provincial party committee was "working in a perfunctory manner". What we appear to be seeing is a leader eager to project the image of an economic reformer both at home and abroad.

Kim Jong-un made a promise to his people when he took power in 2011. He told them living standards would improve and that he would implement reforms to build the economy alongside making his country a nuclear power. Now that he's declared the nuclear programme complete, he is trying to show North Koreans that he's making good on his economic pledge. He is also shifting any blame for the failure to complete the projects on to local party officials, rather than his leadership. He appears keen for foreign media to see this too. North Korea has been trying to brush away suggestions that it has no intention to denuclearise. There has been very little progress on disarmament since Mr Kim met Donald Trump in Singapore. This latest very colourful and public incident allows Mr Kim to argue that his focus is very much on the economy - not on building nuclear weapons. North Korea's domestic newspaper Rodong Sinmun devoted a whole nine pages to the story.

"Normally such things are not done in the open press which, in the overwhelming majority of cases, maintains the image of the DPRK [North Korea] as a perfect country," analyst Fyodor Tertitskiy of NK News told the BBC. There was no escape for the officials involved later in the day either, with state television's main evening news extended from its usual 20 minutes to a full hour to accommodate reports on Mr Kim's inspection visits and his fury at performance.

Senior news reader Ri Chun-hee was among Central TV's team of four announcers who took turns to read KCNA scripts saying that officials had "no revolutionary spirit", the strongest words aimed at senior officials on national media since weather forecasters were publicly chided for their poor performance in 2014. In a move perhaps designed to heap shame on the officials, the hour before the main news had carried a compilation of Mr Kim's successful inspection tours over previous years.
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
RVF users sherman, sterling_archer, and Mercenary (me) took a lot of heat and insults in this thread over the past year for our theories and opinions on what is really going on in North Korea. Our gut instinct told us never to believe anything the maninstream media said about North Korea.

However it looks like the 3 of us might be right about Kim and North Korea all along.
Jay Dyer might have been right all along too. He wrote about this this way back on April 18, 2017.
My next post will explain.
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
...



What has Qanon said about North Korea on 4chan and 8chan over the last 8 months ?














Trump was telling us the truth all along....he hardly ever mentioned or insulted Kim, he was always bashing rocket man in his tweets and at the united nations.










Did you know this guy wrote a book ?




 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
Who is Trump really talking about in this speech from last year ?
Does he ever say the word "Kim" ?
Look at my above post with the book photo.

 

spokepoker

Hummingbird
I thought this was the North Korea thread, not the "Q" thread.

North Korea appears to be dismantling satellite launch site
Last Updated Jul 24, 2018 1:41 PM EDT

SEOUL, South Korea -- North Korea appears to have started dismantling key facilities at its main satellite launch site in a step toward fulfilling a commitment made by leader Kim Jong Un at his summit with President Trump in June.

While Pyongyang could be trying to build trust with Washington as they engage in talks to resolve the nuclear standoff, analysts say dismantling a few facilities at the site alone wouldn't realistically reduce North Korea's military capability or represent a material step toward denuclearization. And they expressed concern the work is being done without verification.

The North Korea-focused 38 North website said commercial satellite images between July 20 and 22 indicate the North began dismantling key facilities at the Sohae launch site. The facilities being razed or disassembled include a rocket engine test stand used to develop liquid-fuel engines for ballistic missiles and space-launch vehicles and a rail-mounted processing building where space launch vehicles were assembled before being moved to the launch pad, according to the report.

"Since these facilities are believed to have played an important role in the development of technologies for the North's intercontinental ballistic missile program, these efforts represent a significant confidence building measure on the part of North Korea," analyst Joseph Bermudez wrote in the report.
NKOREA-MILITARY-NUCLEAR-MISSILE

This undated picture released by North Korea's official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) on March 19, 2017, shows the ground jet test of a newly developed high-thrust engine at the Sohae Satellite Launching Ground in North Korea.
Getty

U.S. intelligence agreed with 38 North that the dismantling of the engine test site has begun but the site's foundations have not yet been removed, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports.

Lindsey Graham says Trump being "played" by North Korea

An official from South Korea's presidential office on Tuesday said Seoul has also been detecting dismantlement activities at the Sohae launch site but did not specify what the North was supposedly taking apart.

Other analysts said North Korea is giving up little in dismantling the rocket engine test site when it's clear the country is satisfied with its current design of long-range weapons and could easily build other similar facilities if needed in the future.

Adam Mount, a senior defense analyst at the Federation of American Scientists, said it's also troubling that the North has been apparently allowed to duck verification by unilaterally dismantling parts of its nuclear and missile facilities without the presence of international inspectors. North Korea in May invited foreign journalists to observe the destruction of tunnels at its nuclear testing ground, but did not invite outside experts capable of certifying what had been destroyed.

"The actions at Sohae are a helpful signal that Pyongyang wants to continue negotiations, but do not in themselves advance nuclear disarmament," Mount said in an email. "North Korea still has not disclosed or offered to dismantle facilities that produce or store nuclear or missile systems, or the means to transport the missiles. So far, the facilities dismantled have been peripheral to these core functions."

Lee Choon Geun, a missile expert at South Korea's Science and Technology Policy Institute, said the North's supposed move to dismantle the rail-mounted processing building was the more meaningful development as it potentially indicated to broader dismantlement activities at the site.
A combination of two satellite images show activity at the Sohae rocket launch site

A combination of two satellite images taken on June 22, 2018 (top) and July 22, 2018 show activity at the Sohae rocket launch site in North Korea.
Planet Labs Inc/Handout/REUTERS

"If North Korea goes further and dismantle the entire Sohae site, that would meaningfully reduce the country's long-range missile capability by eliminating a facility where it could fire multiple ICBMs in succession," Lee said. "The North can also fire ICBMs from transporter erector launchers, but their technology with these vehicles isn't stable."

However, Mount said the military consequences of a broader dismantlement would be "marginal." North Korea has invested a great deal of effort in ensuring its missiles can be fired from austere locations and doesn't require a site like Sohae, he said.

"Dismantling a test site does not seriously constrain the existing arsenal or even future designs," said Mount. "While it would be a significant step for the regime to shut down its space launch programs, it has always argued that these programs are distinct from military ones. Easing the missile threat would require restrictions on the number, types, or capabilities of missiles or the vehicles that transport and fire them."

After his summit with Kim in Singapore on June 12, Mr. Trump said he was told by Kim that the North was "already destroying a major missile engine testing site" without identifying which site. The leaders concluded their summit by declaring their vague aspirational goal of moving toward a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula, but there's lingering doubts on whether Kim would ever agree to fully give up the nuclear weapons he may see as a stronger guarantee of his survival that whatever security assurances the United States can provide.

Kim in late 2017 declared his nuclear weapons and missile program was complete, following a torrent of nuclear and missile tests that include the detonation of a purported thermonuclear warhead and flight tests of three developmental ICBMs potentially capable of reaching the U.S. mainland. Kim announced the mission of his nuclear testing site as finished weeks before inviting foreign journalists to observe the destruction of the tunnels.

The South Korean presidential official, who didn't want to be named, citing office rules, said the supposed dismantlement activities shows the North is moving gradually.

"We need further analysis to figure out why the North didn't turn the dismantlement activities into an event and whether the country is trying to control the speed of the process to maintain a pace it wants," he said.
 
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