Oklahoma Frat Shut Down - Racist Chant

[TheWastelander]

Did the "media" magically make this thread 6 pages in 1 day?

If it wasn't for the media's obsession with racism you wouldn't know or be outraged by a bunch of spoiled white kids saying something racist in Oklahoma on a bus.

They're manipulating your emotions. That's their business model.

 

[Sir Vigorous]

Doing a little "I hate niggers!" chant is nothing because there's about a 0% chance any of them would actually DO anything to blacks.

You can be racist without lynching someone, denying them entry into your organization is one of those ways to be racist.

"Doing a little 'I hate niggers!' chant is nothing". <-This is a shocking statement to people. I'm just explaining to those who seem to be confused as to why this is a big story. Or people who think it is only a big story cause they media just loves black people and hates white men. It is actually shocking to a large portion of the population they would do this chant so openly.

How is it shocking? Have you ever been to a football game? The whole point of these chants that everyone participates in is to create an Us vs. Them mentality, and you do that the easiest by simply disparaging the Them part of the equation. This is just one chant, I'm sure they (and other fraternities) have many other different chants: against the rival football team, against the rival fraternities or sororities or schools or whatever.

Having a chant against a rival football team is not the same as a chant against a race of people. I understand your point about the genesis of such behavior. Just because it comes from a similar place doesn't mean it's as harmless. "Fuck State" =/= "lynch the niggers"

Do not worry, I don't have thin skin. I'm not in an hysterical fit right now. I'm just shocked because it was unexpected. I have re-calibrated and will handle the world differently now.

All in all, I don't really care too much but people should ask what the media is trying to accomplish here and if expulsion really fits the crime rather than some other sanction.

I agree, i trust the media 0%. Their coverage is sensationalist and ridiculous. However, the underlying story I still believe to be substantive. I would give the chapter a chance to defend their position of not admitting black people and to explain their chant. If they come up with a decent set of reasons and logic behind it that isn't just hate, I'd suspend but let them back on campus. If it is just because they don't like black people and think they are all criminals, then they'd be gone for years and possibly expelled if I can find some discrimination they've done.

 

[Libertas]

By the way, I don't think the punishment fits the crime. I'm willing to bet plenty of people here have told racist jokes in private or laughed at some without actually harboring hatred in their hearts. These morons thought their cute little chant was something that would stay private, but it didn't.

I think forcing them to do X amount of community service hours helping black families in the area would've been more productive than expelling them. I'm also sure there were probably guys not singing who got caught up in this.

There's also the risk of actually turning some of them into hardcore racists by destroying their academic careers and likely their future job prospects.

Now that that's out of the way, I do think there is a bit of a double-standard going on here, as others have pointed out. Racism is treated like a one-sided thing by the media and most definitely the university system. If you've ever taken a sociology class at college, you would know this. They tend to believe that only whites can be racist, because power + whatever = random left-wing bullshit (I forgot their retarded equation). We all know that's not the case because there are insecure haters in every race.

The powers that be primarily ignore the nonsense non-white racists say and, for instance, act like "homophobia" coming from minorities doesn't exist.

Not justifying anything that happened in this instance, but just trying to explain where some people are coming from. The media looks for things they can use to forward their narrative and blow them up into huge controversies, while they ignore things that aren't helpful to them.

All in all, I don't really care too much but people should ask what the media is trying to accomplish here and if expulsion really fits the crime rather than some other sanction.

This is actually a very good response all around. The school making them do some kind of community service would actually serve a productive end. As of yet I don't think anyone's been expelled, but it's only a matter of time. These guys' lives will be ruined and they'll be bitter and jaded, thus increasing their feelings of racism most likely, instead of dissipating it with the community service.

Also you made the crucial point about the media ignoring "homophobia" from minorities. Back when I was in school (and also on the internet to this day), I noticed that those attitudes were far more prevalent amongst minorities, particularly Latinos, than whites. Yet whenever you hear the story of a homophobic slur it's always invariably aimed at some white guy.

The media is really at the heart of all of this. Like I said, the hysteria narrative has made us so desensitized to claims of racism that when something like this comes along, it's natural for many of us to treat it with a degree of indifference or hostility. It's what's putting us at each other's throats.

I wonder when a rape case will come along that will receive similar derision from us for the same reason.

 

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

If it wasn't for the media's obsession with racism you wouldn't know or be outraged by a bunch of spoiled white kids saying something racist in Oklahoma on a bus.

This might be the dumbest thing I've read in this whole thread. I'm not outraged at all by this, I find the racial hamstering in this thread more outrageous than the chant. Saying the its medias fault people are outraged by this is outrageous.

 

[Enigma]

How many actual Southerners do we have in here?

Lynching was widespread until less than 50 years ago. When you or your parent's generation was being terrorized and murdered for the color of your skin, it is not something you take as a "joke".

And neither do these boys singing the song. They understand exactly how hateful and derogatory it is.

If you're a major university in the South, this is simply something you can not be seen condoning. These issues are still very fresh in people's minds and surrounded with a large amount of tension.

If you want to see a real double standard, read people's posts about Muslims attacking people because of their religion and then watch them take the exact opposite stance about white people attacking others for their race.

"But they aren't actually racist" ignoring the fact that these boys' parents didn't even attend the same schools as blacks. Yeah, there's absolutely no chance that they actually harbor any animosity towards blacks, it's all an aberration created by the media :tard:

 

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

If you want to see a real double standard, read people's posts about Muslims attacking people because of their religion and then watch them take the exact opposite stance about white people attacking others for their race.

 

[TheWastelander]

If it wasn't for the media's obsession with racism you wouldn't know or be outraged by a bunch of spoiled white kids saying something racist in Oklahoma on a bus.

This might be the dumbest thing I've read in this whole thread. I'm not outraged at all by this, I find the racial hamstering in this thread more outrageous than the chant. Saying the its medias fault people are outraged by this is outrageous.

You might want to work on the image you present to the forum then, because whenever there's a thread about a story where there might even be a whiff of racism at play, there you are. Your posts in the Ferguson thread and the various cop threads come to mind.

I understand you might be oversensitive to this sort of thing and you might even have good reason to be given your experiences, but you do sound like you have a lot of bitterness.

And yeah, there is some hamstering going on in this thread, but it ain't about media manipulation.

 

[TheWastelander]

How many actual Southerners do we have in here?

Lynching was widespread until less than 50 years ago. When you or your parent's generation was being terrorized and murdered for the color of your skin, it is not something you take as a "joke".

And neither do these boys singing the song. They understand exactly how hateful and derogatory it is.

If you're a major university in the South, this is simply something you can not be seen condoning. These issues are still very fresh in people's minds and surrounded with a large amount of tension.

Oklahoma isn't in the South, but point taken.

 

[Sonoma]

If you say something in front of a girl, you've effectively said it to all of her friends

Zero sympathy for the chapter, I'll say some things in jest, but anything this blatant is from a group harboring some legitimate racist feelings. When you join a Greek organization you sign up for (literally sign) a serious amount of contracts for adhering to PC behavior, and they failed to abide by a long shot

 

[Goldin Boy]

These boys didn't just think of this song spur of the moment. This song didn't just pop up as a joke.
They learned this from somewhere..They already harbored these feelings.
Its probably not the first time they have said things like this. This isn't an isolated case.
ITs like you are trying to say that racism doesn't exist.

Since you quoted 2x me I feel obliged to clarify myself. I'm black so I'd be one of those "niggers" that SAE was singing about.

Racism is an idea that all races have fixed characteristics. Discrimination is the act of making decisions based solely on ones ethnicity. We have laws that prevent/preclude discrimination in the US, not racism. You can't legislate people's feelings but you can stop them from acting on them in ways that would hurt/harm others.

What was said on the bus was morally reprehensible( and I clearly disagree with it) but wasn't illegal. Granted they were saying their thoughts but where did you see evidence of discrimination?

I agree with you. Racism is still around.With all due respect Source, I think you're letting your personal opinion color your perception of the event. A stupid song isn't tantamount to lynching a Black Man. Those dude wouldn't dare say that to brother's face.

 

[Enigma]

Oklahoma isn't in the South, but point taken.

Geographically, no. Culturally, yes.

Just look at the Tulsa Race Riot.

 

[Atlanta Man]

These boys didn't just think of this song spur of the moment. This song didn't just pop up as a joke.
They learned this from somewhere..They already harbored these feelings.
Its probably not the first time they have said things like this. This isn't an isolated case.
ITs like you are trying to say that racism doesn't exist.

Since you quoted 2x me I feel obliged to clarify myself. I'm black so I'd be one of those "niggers" that SAE was singing about.

Racism is an idea that all races have fixed characteristics. Discrimination is the act of making decisions based solely on ones ethnicity. We have laws that prevent/preclude discrimination in the US, not racism. You can't legislate people's feelings but you can stop them from acting on them in ways that would hurt/harm others.

What was said on the bus was morally reprehensible( and I clearly disagree with it) but wasn't illegal. Granted they were saying their thoughts but where did you see evidence of discrimination?

I agree with you. Racism is still around. But I think your letting your personal opinion color your perception of the event.

Look at it from the schools perspective, they have to recruit football players and are competing with the best colleges in the nation. I can assure you that there are blue chip athletes that are watching and now think FSU, Texas, or Baylor might be a better fit than OSU. I am going to leave it at that, I have some work to do. I will see where this thread is when I come home, I do not have high hopes for where this thread is headed.

 

[worldwidetraveler]

These boys didn't just think of this song spur of the moment. This song didn't just pop up as a joke.
They learned this from somewhere..They already harbored these feelings.
Its probably not the first time they have said things like this. This isn't an isolated case.
ITs like you are trying to say that racism doesn't exist.

Since you quoted 2x me I feel obliged to clarify myself. I'm black so I'd be one of those "niggers" that SAE was singing about.

Racism is an idea that all races have fixed characteristics. Discrimination is the act of making decisions based solely on ones ethnicity. We have laws that prevent/preclude discrimination in the US, not racism. You can't legislate people's feelings but you can stop them from acting on them in ways that would hurt/harm others.

What was said on the bus was morally reprehensible( and I clearly disagree with it) but wasn't illegal. Granted they were saying their thoughts but where did you see evidence of discrimination?

I agree with you. Racism is still around. But I think your letting your personal opinion color your perception of the event.

I try to stay out of these threads, but I do find it fascinating how quick people are to condone punishment when it is speech they don't like or agree with.

We are seeing the same type of behavior on social media with people going after jobs, posting real identities and just trying to fuck up lives because they didn't like what was said.

Now we have people being called racist because they don't agree that people should be punished for being an asshole. That is just another way of trying to shut up people.

I may not like what others say, but I damn well will fight for their right to say it because I know one day someone will not like what I say.

Personally, I prefer people being more openly opinionated on how they feel. It helps filter out the dipshits much more quickly.

 

[Sourcecode]

Enigma Beat me to the punch.
Oklahoma wasn't even a state during slavery. It was still a territory.

But that doesn't exclude its blatant history

 

[Medic42]

Hmmm a racism/race thread and I've been here less than a month... what to do? Ah I know!

[img=700x600]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yCQSltPCn.../s1600/Hazel_Varanese_Duck_Cover_sm.jpg[/img]

 

[TheWastelander]

Oklahoma isn't in the South, but point taken.

Geographically, no. Culturally, yes.

Just look at the Tulsa Race Riot.

Didn't know about that. I bet the kids didn't either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

Newspaper coverage

The Tulsa Tribune, one of two white-owned papers published in Tulsa, broke the story in that afternoon's edition with the headline: "Nab Negro for Attacking Girl In an Elevator", describing the alleged incident. According to some witnesses, the same edition of the Tribune included an editorial warning of a potential lynching of Rowland, and entitled "To Lynch Negro Tonight". The paper was known at the time to have a "sensationalist" style of news writing. All original copies of that issue of the paper have apparently been destroyed, and the relevant page is missing from the microfilm copy, so the exact content of the column (and whether it existed at all) remains in dispute.[13][14][15]

Media manipulation.

And..

The 2000 official commission report notes that it was unusual for both Rowland and Page to be working downtown on Memorial Day, when most stores and businesses were closed. It suggests that Rowland had a simple accident, such as tripping and steadying himself against the girl, or perhaps they were lovers and had a quarrel.

a woman overreacting and likely lying set off a race riot that negatively impacted the lives of thousands.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Sp5]

I agree with Wastelander that the punishment should have an educational component. Maybe have these chumps clean up for and help veterans at the VA Hospital; many blacks among them.

Technically, you could organize a frat off-campus, buy property, and do whatever legal things you want. It's legal to say "nigger" or anything else in that vein in an open context. If the frat is on campus, they are subject to university regulation but in a state university the First Amendment supersedes the regulations. I'm not up on the current caselaw, but it's not really that clear whether the university action was legally proper.

 

[Enigma]

Oklahoma isn't in the South, but point taken.

Geographically, no. Culturally, yes.

Just look at the Tulsa Race Riot.

Didn't know about that. I bet the kids didn't either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

Newspaper coverage

The Tulsa Tribune, one of two white-owned papers published in Tulsa, broke the story in that afternoon's edition with the headline: "Nab Negro for Attacking Girl In an Elevator", describing the alleged incident. According to some witnesses, the same edition of the Tribune included an editorial warning of a potential lynching of Rowland, and entitled "To Lynch Negro Tonight". The paper was known at the time to have a "sensationalist" style of news writing. All original copies of that issue of the paper have apparently been destroyed, and the relevant page is missing from the microfilm copy, so the exact content of the column (and whether it existed at all) remains in dispute.[13][14][15]

Media manipulation.

"It resulted in the Greenwood District, also known as 'the Black Wall Street'[1] and the wealthiest black community in the United States, being burned to the ground.

During the 16 hours of the assault, more than 800 people were admitted to local white hospitals with injuries (the two black hospitals were burned down), and police arrested and detained more than 6,000 black Greenwood residents at three local facilities.[2]:108–109 An estimated 10,000 blacks were left homeless, and 35 city blocks composed of 1,256 residences were destroyed by fire. The official count of the dead by the Oklahoma Department of Vital Statistics was 39, but other estimates of black fatalities vary from 55 to about 300.[2]:108, 228 [3]

The events of the riot were long omitted from local and state histories. "The Tulsa race riot of 1921 was rarely mentioned in history books, classrooms or even in private. Blacks and whites alike grew into middle age unaware of what had taken place."[4] With the number of survivors declining, in 1996, the state legislature commissioned a report to establish the historical record of the events, and acknowledge the victims and damages to the black community. Released in 2001, the report included the commission's recommendations for some compensatory actions, most of which were not implemented by the state and city governments. The state passed legislation to establish some scholarships for descendants of survivors, economic development of Greenwood, and a memorial park to the victims in Tulsa. The latter was dedicated in 2010."

Yeah, I'm sure everyone just forgot about an entire section of the city being burned down less than a hundred years ago, especially with the memorial park and ongoing legal battle.

Ironic that you'd quote media manipulation when that is exactly why you're unaware of the riots.

And my point was that the culture of Oklahoma is much like Texas and the rest of the "South". Again, that is why I asked who is an actual Southerner, meaning they've experienced these dynamics first hand.

 

[lskdfjldsf]

"Racism", "sexism" along with other less specific terms like "offensive" cannot be measured against static definitions, meaning they have fluid definitions that evolve over the course of time. Who decides if something is racist, and at what point in time? Who draws the line between humor, speech critical of cultural norms, and speech that discriminates and restricts the rights of others? When this is determined by millions of shifting individual perspectives rather than a static definition, you'll always see people at each others throats.

I'm never going to convince a black guy to accept my definition of what constitutes racism, and he'll never convince me to accept his. But hopefully people here are able to see the difference between saying something negative or disrespectful towards a group of people, and limiting the rights of others through discrimination.

 

[Sourcecode]

Ha.. Yes.. Because attempting to reeducate them will really work?
Any community service or reeducation these kids take will be them trying to cover their asses.
It's not gonna change them