Arktos

Chicken
Orthodox Inquirer
I’m not sure if there is a thread where I should place this question however I can’t really find any other so here it goes.
I’ve had a growing interest towards Orthodoxy since discovering Seraphim Rose, his writing especially critical of far eastern mysticism and nihilism really had an effect on me, especially since I’ve had an overdose of Nietzschean/Spenglerian philosophy and short but intense dive into various Neopagan movements (more of the Evola type) that still felt more like political outputs and lifestyle choices than anything seriously spiritual.
I live in a country where the Orthodox church is the second official church of the nation so finding one and going to service is not much of a problem. The problem is that the services are shortened when compared to other traditional churches, appearantly the most important take from ascetic struggle is that it is good for the climate and the local parish had the opinion that since the first one to meet our Lord after his resurrection was a woman we need to have deaconesses (with roles that these women never had in the past) et cetera, et cetera. Also we belong to a patriarchate that thinks Biden is the best, black lies matter and “couldn’t care less” about breaking established church hierarchies in other countries because of vain attempts at establishing an Eastern Pope, a thing no one asked for.

I’m not sure if I’m being way too judgemental but my first experience with the priest and the parish wasn’t that great, at the very least it certainly wasn’t “based” as some would say. Talking with orthodox in the web and reading articles has been even worse of an experience apart from this forum and sites like Orthodox Ethos.

You guys show very different mentality and attitude to both religion and the times we live in so my question is this:
If there is no true traditional church here and I am not able to get properly baptised and take part in communion, do I have a chance at salvation at all? Many on this site and others constantly warn about the hubris and ensuing prelest at thinking you’re an island but the local church doesn’t seem to be much different from the liberal Lutheran or Episcopalian church down the road (aside icons and all). Only Christians whom take their faith seriously here are certain Pentecostal and pietist types but they all have these weird fantasies about being in submissive union in the (((tribe))). I thought the Old Testament (especially the law and prophets) was fulfilled in Christ Jesus?! Are we really to cuck for some apertheid nation in middle-east or for some sleazy Wallstreet tycoons and kiddiedidlers in Hollywood?

I don’t know if I should just try to silence myself and accept my lot and try my best at prayerful life in the liberal church, however the feeling inside is probably pretty similar to what Roosh felt in his old Armenian Church. Am I truly being saved? Can I get good spiritual council from these priests? If it is all about individual salvation then perhaps indeed the Bible is all you need and honest attempt of putting its teachings into practice. However Father John Whitefords article on Sola Scriptura completely destroyed that notion for me.
I really don’t know what to do and the days are growing darker...
 
Last edited:
I'm a Catholic who is also attracted to the East. God acts through sacraments, regardless of the errors in which priests or bishops who administer them believe. And not only that: God is not just bound by sacraments. He is not looking at you, willing to condemn you just because your baptism wasnt done in certain way. No, not at all. He is looking at your heart and your soul, who yearn from Him. And they yearn for Him just because they are responding to His prompting.

God brings peace. Demons like to mess up with us and give us fear and anguish. Ask God to guide you while remembering that. And if you still don't have peace, ask Him for it: "Lord, give me the peace that the world can't give".
 

Penitent

Woodpecker
Orthodox
You have valid concerns. In the Russian church during the soviet era many of the faithful were instructed by wise and experienced churchmen not to attend the state-sponsored churches which were being influenced by the godless regime at the time (although they were canonical). I don't know if we have gotten to that point yet, nor can I judge clearly the situation at your local parish. But this I do know, by yourself you will go nowhere. At the very least make an attempt to approach Holy Baptism. Maybe further on down the road you can look for better circumstances.
 

Charbel Makhlouf

Pigeon
Orthodox Catechumen
@Arktos does your country have any monasteries you could visit for a day or perhaps even a few days?

I suspect you'll have a much better chance of finding good and holy spiritual direction and counsel from a monastic. They would be able to advise you far better than we can and if you are in an Orthodox country, I pray you are within driving distance of a monastery?

I'd also echo what @Penitent said regarding your concerns. St. Luke of Simferopol was one such Russian saint who was adamant to his flock about not participating in the false "Living Church" in Russia:

As a Bishop he preached incessantly not only about the need to live Orthodoxy but against the perils of the “Living Church”. The latter was a defiled heretical sect propagated by the communist regime.

Jay Dyer also waited on joining the Orthodox Church because the parish he was attending did not seem welcome to his worldview and bought into many lies. You can hear his own conversion story here:


All that said, please actively seek spiritual counsel from a good and holy priest or monk. It may take some effort, but such guidance is necessary and God will appreciate your effort!
 

Arktos

Chicken
Orthodox Inquirer
I'm a Catholic who is also attracted to the East. God acts through sacraments, regardless of the errors in which priests or bishops who administer them believe. And not only that: God is not just bound by sacraments. He is not looking at you, willing to condemn you just because your baptism wasnt done in certain way. No, not at all. He is looking at your heart and your soul, who yearn from Him. And they yearn for Him just because they are responding to His prompting.

God brings peace. Demons like to mess up with us and give us fear and anguish. Ask God to guide you while remembering that. And if you still don't have peace, ask Him for it: "Lord, give me the peace that the world can't give".
Thank you for your reassuring words. There truly is a limit in what the world can give and in due time it will all be lost.
Let us all “lay up for ourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal“.
@Arktos does your country have any monasteries you could visit for a day or perhaps even a few days?

I suspect you'll have a much better chance of finding good and holy spiritual direction and counsel from a monastic. They would be able to advise you far better than we can and if you are in an Orthodox country, I pray you are within driving distance of a monastery?

I'd also echo what @Penitent said regarding your concerns. St. Luke of Simferopol was one such Russian saint who was adamant to his flock about not participating in the false "Living Church" in Russia:



Jay Dyer also waited on joining the Orthodox Church because the parish he was attending did not seem welcome to his worldview and bought into many lies. You can hear his own conversion story here:


All that said, please actively seek spiritual counsel from a good and holy priest or monk. It may take some effort, but such guidance is necessary and God will appreciate your effort!
There are monasteries and my wife already suggested that we take a weekend trip! However I’m not certain exactly what (or rather how) to ask. Jumping to most controversial questions might not be the most constructive approach and I’m afraid that I might give the impression that I’m searching for a safe haven for certain politics, which I am not! I believe God is truth and since He is the truth, I must accept to go anywhere truth takes me. However reading here, reading certain ROCOR priests and reading early Christian writers, I’m really not that convinced by certain teachings our bishops have and the Christian love and humble submission that have been required thus far by our native churchians go only in one direction and that direction is never against the spirit of our times.
 

Arktos

Chicken
Orthodox Inquirer
I’d like to also add that there are many threads on this forum for American inquirers where many tell them to simply try other parishes or change from OCA to ROCOR etc. This really is not much of a option here where I live since there is only one official church and the orthodox population is so small and so divided. There are quite a lot of people who deep down feel like I do however thanks to new “temporary” plague laws for combating “misinformation” they are tough to reach through forums and chans.

There are myths about some people doing home services in defiance to all this however I have never heard or found anything close to me. There was a thread in an other forum where they discussed certain Serbs and Romanians doing this however it seems this is done for certain nationalist reasons, not in so much for the sake of faith. Who knows, if I get desperate and find the Serb nationalists I might ask to join just out of spite.
 
Top