Online dating in 2007 vs now: what happened?

basedgm

Sparrow
Orthodox Catechumen
I have spent a bit of time this year trying to dig out trad or trad-friendly women online. It would really be better to get a secretary for this.
Given how much demand there is on this and similar threads, this would be a lucrative business idea. Assuming there could be some way to scout and properly vet such women, men in the west would easily pay tons for such networking.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
Given how much demand there is on this and similar threads, this would be a lucrative business idea. Assuming there could be some way to scout and properly vet such women, men in the west would easily pay tons for such networking.
I agree, but we still have larger structural problems, like law and culture in general. I think that's the nail in the coffin for older women when men might be considering them after age 30 in the west even: you agree to marry her and there's no guarantee at all she'll do minimum things that you would expect of a wife, like cooking and having sex with you.
 

Maddox

Kingfisher
Protestant
Lately, I've been thinking of hiring my own amateur matchmaker.

I've used a service before around 2010 and one of them did a decent job of getting me dates with good-looking women. However, none of them worked out and I suspected the women were just told to go out with me for a free drink in exchange for a match with a better guy down the road.

I stopped the service because I didn't feel that they were providing enough value for what I was paying. In fact, I think that each date ended up costing me hundreds of dollars, just for the privilege of going out with the girl, and this didn't include drinks or food.

So it's crossed my mind that instead of hiring one of these overpriced matchmakers, I should just place an ad for an amateur to do this work for me. I mean, why does it have to be a professional matchmaker? What more do they offer than some young chick who's not in the industry?

It seems to me that some random girl with a lot of friends could just play matchmaker herself using her own address book and I could pay her for each date she gets me that meets certain criteria. I could even throw in a bonus if the girl is an 8+ on the hotness scale or if we end up getting married.

I'm just not sure how to go about writing up the job description and expectations. Also, I don't want some freaks applying for the job. So I can't put a listing on Craigslist. I need to only reach decent women. Maybe I should tack this job on church bulletin boards...
 

Not LARPing

 
Banned
Orthodox
Why not just join a social circle that has high value women? Then date within it or use the social proof as a way to date their friends. Time investment, yes, but no cost investment.
 

SeaEagle

Woodpecker
Trad Catholic
Why not just join a social circle that has high value women? Then date within it or use the social proof as a way to date their friends. Time investment, yes, but no cost investment.
The only high value women are in church. Church groups are the only way to find worthwhile women. I've been having promising leads on CatholicMatch myself, though most women are 30+ and possibly LARPing as trad.
 

Not LARPing

 
Banned
Orthodox
^^This is a red herring, and there is a contentious debate about it. My first response is that it depends on the church, I must stress this, every church is different, every denomination, each one has different demographics, etc . Tons of churches are full of late 20's, early 30's women who are looking to get into a LTR with a beta-- this women previously never attended church, weren't devout, and then resigned themselves to the fact that the party days were over, and they they would go have to look for a man in the church. At some churches even, it's single moms. And the sentiment of the church in question is that men should "man up" and enter into relationships with these women. This is suboptimal and running cover for a woman that's made bad decisions. If you think that good women are found in the church and the church only, this itself is a reductionist view... Good women also have to go to the supermarket, yoga studios, gyms, art galleries, non-profits, universities, etc. Belonging to one church and groups that have single women in it is great, but as far as options it gives you, it's extremely limiting. Just like exclusively being on one niche website. What even makes you sure you're going to meet a woman in the church-- who knows where you'll ultimately meet a woman.

I had an acquaintance who was a good guy, religious, met a woman in an evangelical church, this guy literally married a woman that had like 4 kids from three different guys based on the pressure that the church exerted on him to only have a serious relationship exclusively in the context of marriage. To this day he is raising 4 kids who are not his.
 

Snagglefoss

Pigeon
Atheist
Been on youtube a lot recently.

So pictures of this slim average becky's tinder data use were up for debate. She was a weak 6/10, early 30's. Heavily made-up in makeup, so possibly a 5/10 without the maybelline/lipstick/foundation. Just very average facially.

She said "yes" or matched to 68/6000 men that liked her over a 3 month period. That means shes eliminated 5932 men out of 6000 on mostly looks alone. So shes only selecting chads 8+. That's quite obvious.

Of those 68 she eliminated another 44 - mostly due to geographical distance. She went on 20 dates out of a possible 24 men (3 men pulled out and 1 didn't turn up).

She had sex with 6 of those 20 men she went on dates with in just a 8 week period (basically a new fuck buddy every 10 days). None led to an long term relationship or anything meaningful.


This is the secret life of a slim average woman you pass by in Starbucks, the gas station, grocery store who's glued to her phone. Literal top tier actresses & models didn't have this much male attention and accessibility to Chads back in the 1990's.

If you think as a non-overweight average looking man you'll get a slim/non-overweight average looking likable & compatible woman through online dating, your living in cloud f'ing cuckoo land mate.
 
Last edited:

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
The only high value women are in church. Church groups are the only way to find worthwhile women. I've been having promising leads on CatholicMatch myself, though most women are 30+ and possibly LARPing as trad.
Catholic Match is depressingly late 30s women. It's sad to see sometimes actually. I know that Catholic women get pulled into secular ideas, aside from Casual Sex, the entire focus on yourself, your career, your friends type of mentality.

When I think of women in the old old days, in which I never lived, they were desperate to find a husband and be married. It was a known disaster to be an old maid.
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member


This guys explains what went wrong perfectly.

So now we understand the background processes, with the result that -
  • if you are a man on a swipe app, after a lot of patience and time, you can date down 2 or 3 points. If you are a very good looking man with a strong profile, you won't need patience it happens quickly, but there will probably still be some measure of dating down.
  • if you are a woman on a swipe app, with minimal patience you can date up 2 or 3 points, but it probably will be a shortlived fling
  • you are in the meantime being distracted from furthering yourself in other ways
If you were an early adopter when Tinder was first released in 2012, there would have been some fun times.

So it has possibly affected the whole world of partnering even for those not on the apps.

Actually, it starts to make sense as my last serious relationship started before this unfortunate new era.

This thread is about "2007 vs now". My experiments with the swipe apps are finding women who are just too old or unattractive to consider at all and chats from the nice ones, but it takes then too much chat game to turn it into a meeting.

Not good for the self esteem I'll probably delete altogether before too long. Just not healthy, I'm thankful to have had enough experience before this new era kicked in.

That guy with that youtube channel is however too black pilled, will not be watching any more of him, but was informative and well researched.
 

joost

Kingfisher
The only high value women are in church. Church groups are the only way to find worthwhile women. I've been having promising leads on CatholicMatch myself, though most women are 30+ and possibly LARPing as trad.

I just checked the website and I saw plenty of beautiful women. When I read the description, it looks like a perfect wife. Pictures though show something different. Seems like they've been trained on what to write.
 

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
So now we understand the background processes, with the result that -
  • if you are a man on a swipe app, after a lot of patience and time, you can date down 2 or 3 points. If you are a very good looking man with a strong profile, you won't need patience it happens quickly, but there will probably still be some measure of dating down.
  • if you are a woman on a swipe app, with minimal patience you can date up 2 or 3 points, but it probably will be a shortlived fling
  • you are in the meantime being distracted from furthering yourself in other ways

I think there is two ways men are operating, for simplicity -

Men of low-self esteem, who are likely not putting in effort to fitness, appearance, work etc., who will accept the dating down.

Men of some self-esteem, who are likely putting in varying degrees of effort, who wait out dry spells to pestilence to pick out a relationship with someone on your level.

Online dating can work for either, but it's going to be a waiting game. I'm aware of guys who have been on these apps for years. They are hoping to grind something out and it can happen. A couple of members have mentioned they got married after about six months on a dating site - I think Christian sites.

There are stats, I think, posted several pages back that show growing sexlessness among men, and later and later dates in which women essentially come to a realisation that they are going to have to settle for a 35 year-old, 4-5, with little about him that tingles the senses if they want a long-term relationship.

We are in a woman's market. If a woman is about as attractive as a guy, the chances are he will get into a relationship. So high is the demand for female beauty and so low is the availability of it at about the level of attractiveness of men, on an individual basis. This creates a bit of a toxic environment in itself, as men are trying to and making choices based on the most superficial characteristic. They don't experience something like their traditional chaperoned community presenting them with "soft" possibilities, and then choosing to pursue one based on one who is probably around their level of attractiveness and on character.

You can date down in terms of looks without too much issue, but I think the majority of guys in these relationships use them as temporary vehicles for fornication. If someone pops up who matches their level of attractiveness, they are most likely to jump ship.

My experience with them is that you might catch someone's eye, someone who has an attention span, and some level of seriousness. Looks obviously help. If you are in the top 2-10% of male attractiveness (which doesn't mean much to Western women), but you say something that tingles her, you go from being another random "average" to "above average" looking guy to someone hot. It was never about me picking out a woman, it was always about a women picking me out and that being my only real option.
 

Going strong

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Gold Member
We are in a woman's market.

In the Western world (USA, Europe barring Russia, Canada, Australia), sure.

I mean, people write truthful posts here on this thread and others (describing the sad reality of horrendous dating situations), but it's a bit like they think the Western world where they live, is the only world out there. It's not.

There are many places where it's not "a woman's market"... Places (countries) where, by the way, Christian communities are often thriving, too (South America in particular).
 

TheosisSeeker

 
Banned
Orthodox Catechumen
Catholic Match is depressingly late 30s women. It's sad to see sometimes actually. I know that Catholic women get pulled into secular ideas, aside from Casual Sex, the entire focus on yourself, your career, your friends type of mentality.

When I think of women in the old old days, in which I never lived, they were desperate to find a husband and be married. It was a known disaster to be an old maid.

The message boards on that site are even more sad. You see 50+ even 60+ members with join dates sometimes TEN years ago STILL on there.

The delusion is too much when you see a 60 year old woman talking about her dates.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
So it has possibly affected the whole world of partnering even for those not on the apps.

This is the worst part of it, a good insight not brought up that much.

Actually, it starts to make sense as my last serious relationship started before this unfortunate new era.

Having to do with your point above, yes, now that you mention it even though I was at the last age of relatively peak (which was early peak) it was also the time of my last - if eye to eye on religious things I actually might have married her. I recall at that time it was only online sites that people might have gone to, the smartphone thing was just popping up in larger numbers and facebook was obviously over for those who were paying attention.

We are in a woman's market. If a woman is about as attractive as a guy, the chances are he will get into a relationship. So high is the demand for female beauty and so low is the availability of it at about the level of attractiveness of men, on an individual basis. This creates a bit of a toxic environment in itself, as men are trying to and making choices based on the most superficial characteristic. They don't experience something like their traditional chaperoned community presenting them with "soft" possibilities, and then choosing to pursue one based on one who is probably around their level of attractiveness and on character.

This. The soft possibilities I get now (yes I'm older) are literally 35 year olds, who finally asked someone to connect them (incidentally 3 have been through church friends - two were probably reasonable choices 10 years ago, the third was quite frankly, fat). I ask myself, where was the 35 year old girl at age 30? It's so pathetic that I can't even ask the right age, 25. It's not like she couldn't have continued her career at that time and connected with someone. But that's the rub, men and marriage are low priorities; very low.

I mean, people write truthful posts here on this thread and others (describing the sad reality of horrendous dating situations), but it's a bit like they think the Western world where they live, is the only world out there. It's not.

This was my point in the other thread that I posted in a bit and another poster sorta accused me of being obsessed. The truth is that I like to talk about the topic to get the best handle, and I also informed everyone over there that I realized several years ago that given what I desire in a wife, it wasn't in the USA. The details then become the issue - making that happen and doing it realistically. It is not an easy thing at all to leave and just set up shop, because it's either a catch 22 or a golden handcuffs thing in the US: women are bad because of all the money, but if you have a good amount of money and other good attributes, you find them so lacking you want nothing to do with them for marriage. Even in your 40s it is a hard time to have a FIRE lifestyle for most, and by 50s you would but you're pretty old on the spectrum (see ladies, we are somewhat honest here). The issue becomes how do you leave and what is feasible if you can't immediately just say, "F it, I'm setting up shop in Serbia (or whatever country) for the rest of my life."
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
If you are in the top 2-10% of male attractiveness (which doesn't mean much to Western women), but you say something that tingles her, you go from being another random "average" to "above average" looking guy to someone hot.
That's what I meant by :
it takes then too much chat game to turn it into a meeting
Don't want to be lazy though, if in 2022 she needs to have those "tingles" probably ought to try harder to work out how to give them to her. I tried once though and some girl wrote back "I'm not a piece of meat!" and haven't tried again since because I'm very nervous of the algorithm getting spooked if a girl presses the 'report' button, then it will all be over. Should probably experiment a bit more but try to be more calibrated, giving them tingles in chat is not my strength though, and there is so much more you can do in person than in an app.
If you are a very good looking man with a strong profile, you won't need patience it happens quickly, but there will probably still be some measure of dating down.
Forgot to mention, I heard the exact same thing in a manosphere podcast on the topic, a podcast aimed at upbeat guys rather than at black-pilled guys so this "few points down" thing is part of that game.

I'm forcing myself not to delete these two apps as it hasn't been running that long yet. Today had to pull myself away from the settings to stop myself deleting an app after reading this thread, but then there were some nice matches in the afternoon. I give it a few more months and depending on what happens, either keep it or or angrily delete it to save my sanity.
 

Going strong

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Gold Member
by 50s you would but you're pretty old on the spectrum

Once again, I have to answer, like in my above post : In the Western world, yes - you're toast at 50 in (almost all) fertile women's eyes, except if you're a rock star or the Donald.
But in other parts of the world, you can still start a healthy, Christian, beautiful family at 50.
Also, I agree it's hard to leave the West, yes, it's made so by the system, more and more. They want you to remain alone and childless in the West, as a nice defeated, atheist consumerist, like the Western world want men to be.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
But in other parts of the world, you can still start a healthy, Christian, beautiful family at 50.
This is one of the solutions that is very real, because although it isn't ideal, it is much more realistic in many ways (in the modern world). The other part of it is that if you have your resources and can go, you'll likely do it for good and as such you don't have to deal with family members or the surrounding people's attitudes or comments.

What do you think are the top two things that make it so hard to leave (by the system)?
 

Going strong

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Gold Member
What do you think are the top two things that make it so hard to leave (by the system)?

1- inflation that has eaten away at one's savings.
2 - years or decades of Western-life's sloth/material comfort, which ate away at one's courageous spirit.
3 - for most people, lack of real involvement in Christian life and faith, resulting among other things in a lack of contacts with Parishes abroad that could help one's expatriation project.
 
Top