Online dating in 2007 vs now: what the h-ll happened?

When I tried online dating first time in 2007 it worked. Not that you necessarly met a girl you loved but at least it was easy to get dates and numbers. A guy who looked good and had a mediocre profile (like me) didn't have much problems to get a date the same night as you contacted this girls profile (or she contacted you). Then ofcourse it happened sometimes they you started to argue after one date or two, and then split apart. Or that you didn't even met because you were too busy with either other girls or work or something, or lived too far away from your match at an online dating site. I thought it was quite good and fun to use such a site. Then I met a girl I loved and went to a several year relationship with her. We didn't met on the Internet, but among friends we had incommon.

But after we broke up and I went single in 2014, I went back to a dating site and got an account. And I noticed something. It was incredible hard to get a reply from a girl, despite me being even more muscular than when I used dating sites 6 years earlier.

It seemed like a shift in the purpose of such sites. Girls didn't use online dating to get dates anymore, they used it to just get attention. Or - they were super picky. A friend of mine notice the same.

What happened during the years say 2010-2014? Anyone else noticing it.
 

Captain Gh

Ostrich
Gold Member
Women's options simply exploded exponentially in between, therefore creating a high level of competition. You stopped @ 2014 in your inquiry. Between then and now... unless you're top 15-20%, they have an indirect, yet hard to conceal level of contempt for you (That can be overcome with Game but it's becoming Harder)... until the Wall™ is Ready to Meet Em! This is a deep concept with many many facets to it. Peruse the Game archive, and read on to know how it happened in details
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
This was discussed in this post as well as many others.

In the above linked post 50% of voters on the poll thought that this decline had been caused by apps/eDating.

But the user Montrose made a good addition, pointing out the decline in meaning of commitment.

My experience of Western women is that they are generally floating around in a non-culture with little idea of where they are heading. They also don't really need a man to protect them, because there are white knights; or to support them, as there is welfare, sugar daddies... A Western woman may want to date you, but few are genuinely marriage or long-term minded. In which case they will be drawn to superficial or unimportant characteristics, skewing generally to very attractive men.

Women in foreign countries have reasons why commitment is desirable.

I tried online dating in 2013 with a fairly poor, but still better than average profile. I'm not sure if anyone messaged back, but I got a lot of interest, mainly from women -2.

I tried it again in 2016 with a better profile and a girl messaged me and we went on a date. She was about a 7.5-8 and I got lucky with that owing that I am a niche guy that appealed to her. Seemed to go good, but she ghosted. It was likely because she saw one thing she didn't like about me and couldn't stomach it. I got some other interest from decent girls, but it was flakey and notably the girls who messaged me were all non-white, i.e. I get a +1 or +2. Anyone I messaged who replied quickly trailed off if they replied; and no white women replied.

I tried again early this year and it was pestilence.

I also think one factor with online is the increase in thirst. Men go on dating sites and find almost no one replies. So sit back or quit, others start fire-bombing messages. If you set up an average women profile in a major city you'll see the inbox quickly explodes with thirsty messages. I suspect this has increased. Online dating is zero-sum. It's always going to go towards male thirst and female disinterest. If you want to get a woman's attention online you have to know that she may not even look at your message or picture. She may be using the site to talk to one guy who managed to catch her attention and not look at other messages.

If you are talking about foreign girls then it's very different for a whole host of reasons. You'll also find things are very different on religious dating sites, which are one of the only places you'll find women who have any considerable desire for healthy commitment.
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
Oscar Henri said:
What happened during the years say 2010-2014? Anyone else noticing it.
What happened? The ubiquitous adoption of smartphones and Tinder happened. Prior to these two innovations, online dating required sitting at a computer and typing up a profile. It also required you to sit at the computer and search through other peoples' profiles. It was more inefficient, and thus it required more of a time investment. And since it took more time, it weeded out women who weren't actually serious about meeting someone.

Fast forward to today, a woman can make a dating app profile that merely consists of a handful of good pictures of herself. Her required time investment is close to zero. She can swipe men whenever she's bored and if she is attractive (a 6 or above) she will match with 90% of the men who have an active profile. This not only supplies her with an endless pipeline of potential dick, it gives her a nice ego boost to know that so many men find her desirable. Whenever she is bored or lonely or feeling ugly she can exchange messages with a guy who you can be sure will be doing all he can to entertain and woo her. If she is particularly entertained and/or intrigued by him, she might even go meet him. Or she might just go have sex with one of the Chads she previously met on an app and bangs whenever she feels the need. In any case, she is in no hurry to settle down with any one man - because the app tells her there is always another around the corner, and why settle for Average Joe when Prince Charming might be one swipe away? Oh, and did I mention that she can do all of this in complete privacy? None of her friends and family have any idea who she is talking to or sleeping with. She can be as anonymous and secretive as she'd like with it. There is no accountability and no risk of being labeled a slut for sleeping around.

Smartphone/dating apps are like the Netflix of sex for women. The illusion of infinite choice combined with instant access and total ease of use. And just like when you're scrolling through Netflix and end up watching trailers for an hour because you can't settle on any one movie, these women squander their prime years in a procession of short flings rather than settling down with a husband. The problem is the technology itself and our human nature. It's like if you sit someone down in front of a bunch of junk food for a few hours - the large majority of people simply won't be able to resist eating it. It is the same in regards to smartphones and dating apps - when you give young women seemingly infinite sexual choice at their fingertips you not only encourage them to take advantage of it as much as they'd like, but you devalue its importance in their minds. Why do women in their prime years behave so poorly these days? Because they view men as completely disposable commodities. From their perspective, there is always another (maybe hotter) guy just around the corner. So their bad behavior doesn't matter. There is no shame or self-reflection or even considering how her personal behavior might be contributing to her dating outcomes - it's just on to the next. Because there is always a next for her. Until the wall approaches and she scrambles to settle down. But by that point she's been so used up that her emotions are dulled. Her brain literally does not possess the necessary oxytocin sensitivity anymore to bond her to a man. She's like a rental car that's been driven into the ground after just a few years.

tl;dr Smartphones and dating apps have upended the sexual marketplace to a greater degree than anything in history, including the contraceptive pill. Never before have women had instant, on-demand and completely anonymous/private access to sex with potentially thousands of men in their immediate area. It's like giving a 10 year old boy a real bazooka to play with. In both cases, they aren't equipped to handle that kind of power, and will likely end up destroying themselves and those around them.
 

Captain Gh

Ostrich
Gold Member
scorpion said:
Oscar Henri said:
What happened during the years say 2010-2014? Anyone else noticing it.
What happened? The ubiquitous adoption of smartphones and Tinder happened. Prior to these two innovations, online dating required sitting at a computer and typing up a profile. It also required you to sit at the computer and search through other peoples' profiles. It was more inefficient, and thus it required more of a time investment. And since it took more time, it weeded out women who weren't actually serious about meeting someone.

Fast forward to today, a woman can make a dating app profile that merely consists of a handful of good pictures of herself. Her required time investment is close to zero. She can swipe men whenever she's bored and if she is attractive (a 6 or above) she will match with 90% of the men who have an active profile. This not only supplies her with an endless pipeline of potential dick, it gives her a nice ego boost to know that so many men find her desirable. Whenever she is bored or lonely or feeling ugly she can exchange messages with a guy who you can be sure will be doing all he can to entertain and woo her. If she is particularly entertained and/or intrigued by him, she might even go meet him. Or she might just go have sex with one of the Chads she previously met on an app and bangs whenever she feels the need. In any case, she is in no hurry to settle down with any one man - because the app tells her there is always another around the corner, and why settle for Average Joe when Prince Charming might be one swipe away? Oh, and did I mention that she can do all of this in complete privacy? None of her friends and family have any idea who she is talking to or sleeping with. She can be as anonymous and secretive as she'd like with it. There is no accountability and no risk of being labeled a slut for sleeping around.

Smartphone/dating apps are like the Netflix of sex for women. The illusion of infinite choice combined with instant access and total ease of use. And just like when you're scrolling through Netflix and end up watching trailers for an hour because you can't settle on any one movie, these women squander their prime years in a procession of short flings rather than settling down with a husband. The problem is the technology itself and our human nature. It's like if you sit someone down in front of a bunch of junk food for a few hours - the large majority of people simply won't be able to resist eating it. It is the same in regards to smartphones and dating apps - when you give young women seemingly infinite sexual choice at their fingertips you not only encourage them to take advantage of it as much as they'd like, but you devalue its importance in their minds. Why do women in their prime years behave so poorly these days? Because they view men as completely disposable commodities. From their perspective, there is always another (maybe hotter) guy just around the corner. So their bad behavior doesn't matter. There is no shame or self-reflection or even considering how her personal behavior might be contributing to her dating outcomes - it's just on to the next. Because there is always a next for her. Until the wall approaches and she scrambles to settle down. But by that point she's been so used up that her emotions are dulled. Her brain literally does not possess the necessary oxytocin sensitivity anymore to bond her to a man. She's like a rental car that's been driven into the ground after just a few years.

tl;dr Smartphones and dating apps have upended the sexual marketplace to a greater degree than anything in history, including the contraceptive pill. Never before have women had instant, on-demand and completely anonymous/private access to sex with potentially thousands of men in their immediate area. It's like giving a 10 year old boy a real bazooka to play with. In both cases, they aren't equipped to handle that kind of power, and will likely end up destroying themselves and those around them.
:potd:

:discussionclosed:

That's a Wrap... Scorpion Finished This Thread!
 

loremipsum

Kingfisher
scorpion said:
Oscar Henri said:
What happened during the years say 2010-2014? Anyone else noticing it.
What happened? The ubiquitous adoption of smartphones and Tinder happened. Prior to these two innovations, online dating required sitting at a computer and typing up a profile. It also required you to sit at the computer and search through other peoples' profiles. It was more inefficient, and thus it required more of a time investment. And since it took more time, it weeded out women who weren't actually serious about meeting someone.

Fast forward to today, a woman can make a dating app profile that merely consists of a handful of good pictures of herself. Her required time investment is close to zero. She can swipe men whenever she's bored and if she is attractive (a 6 or above) she will match with 90% of the men who have an active profile. This not only supplies her with an endless pipeline of potential dick, it gives her a nice ego boost to know that so many men find her desirable. Whenever she is bored or lonely or feeling ugly she can exchange messages with a guy who you can be sure will be doing all he can to entertain and woo her. If she is particularly entertained and/or intrigued by him, she might even go meet him. Or she might just go have sex with one of the Chads she previously met on an app and bangs whenever she feels the need. In any case, she is in no hurry to settle down with any one man - because the app tells her there is always another around the corner, and why settle for Average Joe when Prince Charming might be one swipe away? Oh, and did I mention that she can do all of this in complete privacy? None of her friends and family have any idea who she is talking to or sleeping with. She can be as anonymous and secretive as she'd like with it. There is no accountability and no risk of being labeled a slut for sleeping around.

Smartphone/dating apps are like the Netflix of sex for women. The illusion of infinite choice combined with instant access and total ease of use. And just like when you're scrolling through Netflix and end up watching trailers for an hour because you can't settle on any one movie, these women squander their prime years in a procession of short flings rather than settling down with a husband. The problem is the technology itself and our human nature. It's like if you sit someone down in front of a bunch of junk food for a few hours - the large majority of people simply won't be able to resist eating it. It is the same in regards to smartphones and dating apps - when you give young women seemingly infinite sexual choice at their fingertips you not only encourage them to take advantage of it as much as they'd like, but you devalue its importance in their minds. Why do women in their prime years behave so poorly these days? Because they view men as completely disposable commodities. From their perspective, there is always another (maybe hotter) guy just around the corner. So their bad behavior doesn't matter. There is no shame or self-reflection or even considering how her personal behavior might be contributing to her dating outcomes - it's just on to the next. Because there is always a next for her. Until the wall approaches and she scrambles to settle down. But by that point she's been so used up that her emotions are dulled. Her brain literally does not possess the necessary oxytocin sensitivity anymore to bond her to a man. She's like a rental car that's been driven into the ground after just a few years.

tl;dr Smartphones and dating apps have upended the sexual marketplace to a greater degree than anything in history, including the contraceptive pill. Never before have women had instant, on-demand and completely anonymous/private access to sex with potentially thousands of men in their immediate area. It's like giving a 10 year old boy a real bazooka to play with. In both cases, they aren't equipped to handle that kind of power, and will likely end up destroying themselves and those around them.
How is one supposed to react to this?
I have been through the classical stages of redpill (denial,anger, acceptance) etc. on the basics of redpill years ago, but every time reading truthbombs like this just depresses me to the bone for I know what scorpion wrote is true.
 

loremipsum

Kingfisher
^ Sure, tinder is hardly an option but theres a chance the women you meet outside are the same sluts on Tinder.
Is there a reason for a woman NOT to use tinder from womans pespective?
 
loremipsum said:
^ Sure, tinder is hardly an option but theres a chance the women you meet outside are the same sluts on Tinder.
Is there a reason for a woman NOT to use tinder from womans pespective?
I met a girl outside, who emphasized how she doesn't like to be constantly on her phone and hates everyone else doing it, because she prefers being with people in person. Observed phone use was about zero to three minutes per hour.

Might correlate with not swiping, might not...
 
The odds of you finding wife material aren't great. I met a girl about 3 years ago who was about 85% long time girl, not just good time girl, but it didn't work out, and three years later, it's way more chaff and the same or less wheat.

Mostly I swipe tinder as a hobby these days and if she'd still be attractive at 15 lbs heavier, I'll take a chance and meet her but I pretty much expect her to have a speech impediment or no personality though lol.
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
I don't want to black pill too hard with a post like that. Just laying out the reality. As for what you can do about it, the easiest answer is to not use any dating apps. The thing is, not every woman is using those apps. And more importantly, the vast majority of the highest value women are not using the apps - because they simply don't have to. They get more than enough attention through their interactions in real life and through their social circle. The trick is putting yourself in a position to move in the same social circles as those women. That is the new game for 2020 and beyond. Let me repeat that for emphasis: the entire concept of "Game" over the next decade will be less about lone wolf cold approaching and more about building social circles that naturally attract high-value women into your orbit.

Social media is the other side of the modern dating coin that exists alongside dating apps. You can essentially think of them as parallel paths to the same destination. But the dating app path is covert, while the social media path is overt. The Chad on the dating app can easily pull mid-range level women with no effort via the covert path, but he will struggle to get high value women that way. Because the high value women prefer to stay on the overt path where everyone can see them. There remains a stigma among high value women regarding dating apps, because to use a dating app is to essentially admit that you are NOT a high value woman - because if you were you would have no need for one. And there is a great deal of truth to this. The result is that a lot of great women (solid 8s with good personalities) don't use dating apps and instead end up settling for guys they meet through social circle!

So my recommendations are in summary: stay away from dating apps, put a LOT of effort into building up your social circle, and create a strong overt pathway for women in your social orbit to enter your life through savvy use of social media.
 

velkrum

Kingfisher
Chetthebaker said:
Don’t participate. Just delete all the apps off your phone and quit cold turkey.

Then go outside and meet women in real life.
Absolutely right Chet but your simple statement is much more complex than you realize.

To a high value man this would be the obvious course of reasoning and action.

Low value men have a hopeless, doomsday outlook with women. Both genders have more options than ever before !! We all want the BEST choice of women available to us but we ourselves must become better choices for women.

For a low value male this is not the case. Low value men (for X amount of reasons) do not take the correct steps to increase their value.

Low value men focus more on INTANGIBLE things rather than the 3 MOST IMPORTANT objective signals of value.

  1. Money (75k salary minimum)
  2. Facial aesthetics
  3. Muscles/Physique

Personality and communication are important but, unless you make those 3 factors an INITIAL PRIORITY, behavioral tips and tricks (game), social circle, or "what I should have said over a text" isn't going to provide the foundation needed to entice the opposite sex.

We are witnessing an accelerated process of low value men being weeded out. Some will realize the reality they live in and adapt to their environment (men building value)! Others will continue living life the same way they always have, expecting the world to revolve around them (men losing value).

p.s. Online dating hasn't changed at all. People are now becoming MORE aware of their TRUE SMV.
 

Arcite

Sparrow
scorpion said:
Fast forward to today, a woman can make a dating app profile that merely consists of a handful of good pictures of herself. Her required time investment is close to zero. She can swipe men whenever she's bored and if she is attractive (a 6 or above) she will match with 90% of the men who have an active profile.
It's even worse than that, because at least for those hot and young enough (i.e., 7s and above, age 18-25) they don't even have to actively use the swipe apps. You see these young girls' profiles on Tinder all the time that universally say "I'm never on here. Add me on snap/IG" and then they give their Snapchat or Instagram username. What this indicates is that for a one-time, 30 second time investment, these girls can grab a few good photos of themselves and create a Tinder profile, then never touch it again. Guys will add them on Snapchat or Instagram and the messages will roll in. Inevitably some of those guys will be Chads, and she can bang them whenever she wants. The non-Chads she'll of course ignore, but enjoy the massive ego boost and validation that comes from all their "likes" and messages.

Let that sink in. They can just sit there and check their Snapchat/IG notifications once in a while. They don't even have to open up a separate app and swipe their thumb right. Even that is more work than they need to do to get laid with an endless stream of guys they find attractive.
 
Velkrum is correct, he's a little harsh (he might say "straight to the point") but in general he is on to something. The biggest issue is that in the "weeding process" he speaks of, there is major collateral damage being done to women (and even their potential suitors) via the technology, with all that thirst. They have to wade through a ton of shit just to consider something a little better, and that is the same thing that any quality girl also has to do in real life as men will inevitably approach her daily. While this is a frustration as well, it also makes it that much harder for let's say the borderline limit or levels of men that she would still consider. They get lost in the hoards even with more reasonable approach tactics or tenuous but friendly or family connections. Also, she will develop the idea that supply will never run out.

Social structure in the west was progressively eroding anyway; technology just threw more dirt on the grave.

It can still be done, the problem is that women who are reasonably fit or good looking in the west have pretty much zero humility at this point. They only start to repent when, as we all know, it's too late. Until someone makes a public campaign to tell them the reality that youth trumps everything for women, we will never see a change. What's more sad is that it usually takes a structural calamity to humble people, so I doubt messaging would even work --- messaging will only come after the recognition that there is no other avenue, which then becomes obvious and self fulfilling. People would rather try to escape reality for as long as they can, until they are forced to admit it. Then they act like they knew all along. Sorta funny, sorta sad, mostly bullshit. Ehh, that's just how it is.
 
Velkrum is wrong; charisma trumps money and looks, except in so far as money will get you used and looks will open the door and make things easier. That said, charisma doesn’t undo feminism and make dating in modern America worth it.
 

JiggyLordJr

Woodpecker
MichaelWitcoff said:
Velkrum is wrong; charisma trumps money and looks, except in so far as money will get you used and looks will open the door and make things easier. That said, charisma doesn’t undo feminism and make dating in modern America worth it.
Charisma is an indicator of mental abundance.

High salary is an indicator of resource abundance.

Looks is an indicator of genetic abundance.

They are all important in their own rites. One may trump the other in certain situations, but they are more complementary than they are different. True success rests on the synergy of these three.
 
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