Online dating in 2007 vs now: what the h-ll happened?

TheFinalEpic

Pelican
Gold Member
Try Hinge. The app features prompts and allows you to message direct off the bat, without having to have mutual interest on her part, this is where you can show your personality, charisma, and ability to get as close to a cold opener as possible for an online app. Tinder is the nightclub of dating apps, and I can't say that the ROI of nightclubs is anything I'm interested in.

I am of the camp that there's not much competition on most of these apps due to the fact that most men, by definition, aren't in the top 20%. So, get yourself there, and see what happens. Most guys are thirsty and have beta tendencies.

So, be the opposite, care a lot less (cause this is a numbers game), and use this as a supplement, not as your only source of leads. Even though this forum is about relationships now, in order to garner that relationship, you are going to have to cast a wide net and qualify a lot of women.
 

Papaya

Peacock
Gold Member
Maslows-Hierarchy-8-Levels.jpg



Western culture has essentially transformed relationships for women from a basic survival necessity into an optional lifestyle accessory. Unless you are or at least perceived as "bigger" than her is some way (looks, authority, socially, financially,etc) then youre little more than a disposable clown
 
TheFinalEpic said:
Try Hinge. The app features prompts and allows you to message direct off the bat, without having to have mutual interest on her part, this is where you can show your personality, charisma, and ability to get as close to a cold opener as possible for an online app. Tinder is the nightclub of dating apps, and I can't say that the ROI of nightclubs is anything I'm interested in.

I am of the camp that there's not much competition on most of these apps due to the fact that most men, by definition, aren't in the top 20%. So, get yourself there, and see what happens. Most guys are thirsty and have beta tendencies.

So, be the opposite, care a lot less (cause this is a numbers game), and use this as a supplement, not as your only source of leads. Even though this forum is about relationships now, in order to garner that relationship, you are going to have to cast a wide net and qualify a lot of women.

But Hinge is very location dependent. I have been having great success with it though in New York.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
A couple of things noted from using international dating sites.

If you consider yourself fairly top-tier in what are the immediate fundamentals in The West (looks, well dressed) then you won't have any problems getting talking to women on such sites. On top of that the amount of women who will open you is much higher than will happen on Western dating sites. That is particularly true for Asians (excluding Thais) and Africans (including North Africans). The one demographic that it's not so true for is The FSU, where it's expected for the man to open. That is true, in particular, for younger women.

You can quite happily set up an account and expect women of the same attractiveness message you. I also don't think I've ever had any very unappealing (5 and below) message me; when that is virtually all you'll get on Western sites. If you want to push the boundaries you'll have to message, but I have had a number of messages from women I consider 8.5+. These have always been women closer to 30.

And all this despite international sites having more men on them than Western ones. The ratio is more like 1:3 or 1:4. And the quality of the men is terrible. If you consider yourself to be a 7, you'll look like an 8 on those sites.

Another observation is that the bigger the site, the harder it is to strike up a conversation with anyone, unless they are Asian, in which cases it's always easy. The reasons for that are obvious - the same reasons why large cities are harsh and villages can be real communities. So don't turn your nose up at smaller, niche sites. The larger ones seem to invite mass message spamming by both men and women. On larger ones you'll find you'll get messages from people who have not viewed your profile and you might get messages and then they never reply to your reply.

The last point is it can give you an idea of what it's like for women on Western dating sites. If you're getting several+ messages per day, then your rational quickly gets shot and the interest means less. You can be left with conversations that aren't going anywhere and you can get jaded. That's where Western women are. Your message probably means nothing and they are burnt out from having all this attention and not being able to make a connection.

With that said, most of these women are still wifer-uppers - just generally better starting points than Western women. Most of the women are still primarily interested in things that are a determent to traditionalists: travel, study, work etc. But you'll certainly see a lot more that have better interests, like: cooking, family, the countryside; in particular Asians. One of the best hallmarks is something like 'Just a simple girl, looking for life-long commitment.' and nothing else. Imagine seeing that on Tinder.

As I noted in my now deleted private Turkey thread, attention is key. Where attention flows, it becomes less valuable. In Turkey and other countries, women are still often brought up to be marriageable and to only ever have one partner. Boyfriends are not allowed. So they are starved for male attention and this makes male and female attention roughly equivalent in such countries. In any other circumstances then the value of male attention will plummet. And with the erosion of ever more boundaries in The West + tech (which acts as giant funnels instantly delivering women male attention) the stock of men in general will continue to fall.
 

aeroektar

Pelican
Even in Asia, online is still the shittiest way to meet women. Yeah it's a layup, but it's the lowest quality. You're going to get better quality going out into the real world and talking to women.
 

Solitaire

Robin
The social media/dating apps stuff feels like it's taken the culture to the edge of a bottomless chasm, and kicked it right off. No coming back? Maybe, but I don't see how, though also I haven't given it much thought yet.

Back in 1992 - I was about 24 years old, haha - I was quite excited to be exploring the wild west of the internet, the brand-new WWW, with urls and pages and pictures and everything. It was so liberating, compared to the dinosaur BBs from the 80s. And wow, what's this? AOL, got chat rooms and whatnot, got it's own content, etc. I actually private chatted with a chick from Tallahassee, drove over and spent the weekend with her. So that was cool. Those were the days, man. What gework said, as well - Tinder, the dumb FB dating thing, whatever - practically nothing but 5s and below (waaay below, sometimes). Whenever I do see a decent looking girl, RVF whispers into my ear ...
 

TheFinalEpic

Pelican
Gold Member
for.petes.sake said:
TheFinalEpic said:
Try Hinge. The app features prompts and allows you to message direct off the bat, without having to have mutual interest on her part, this is where you can show your personality, charisma, and ability to get as close to a cold opener as possible for an online app. Tinder is the nightclub of dating apps, and I can't say that the ROI of nightclubs is anything I'm interested in.

I am of the camp that there's not much competition on most of these apps due to the fact that most men, by definition, aren't in the top 20%. So, get yourself there, and see what happens. Most guys are thirsty and have beta tendencies.

So, be the opposite, care a lot less (cause this is a numbers game), and use this as a supplement, not as your only source of leads. Even though this forum is about relationships now, in order to garner that relationship, you are going to have to cast a wide net and qualify a lot of women.

But Hinge is very location dependent. I have been having great success with it though in New York.

Everything is location dependent my man, you're not going to have a great time in some small town with this sort of thing.

Whether or not you should move to one after meeting and courting the girl that you would like to be the mother of your children is another conversation.
 

questor70

Ostrich
scorpion said:
The illusion of infinite choice combined with instant access and total ease of use. And just like when you're scrolling through Netflix and end up watching trailers for an hour because you can't settle on any one movie, these women squander their prime years in a procession of short flings rather than settling down with a husband.

Google "Paradox of choice". Women have too much of it and men have too little (hence chasing anything with two X chromosomes).
 

questor70

Ostrich
PapayaTapper said:
Western culture has essentially transformed relationships for women from a basic survival necessity into an optional lifestyle accessory.

I would argue that western culture has eliminated higher order needs in women. The closest we have to higher order needs is the bastardation of virtue signals from SJWs, or maybe the schizophrenia stage of washed up THOTs like what happened to Tila Tequila. But the average THOT is unconcerned with "transcendance". They are in a state of arrested development.
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
^Yes, this was PT's graphic on the previous page.

The single biggest reason why higher order needs have been met, and persisted (for western women) is that that the ratio of men to women has been far too close to 50-50 for too long, and thus, no selection pressure has been put on women.

With greater numbers of males comes greater thirst and less masculine traits, especially regarding reproductive strategy (= more sellouts).

If you have a secular society without tradition and/or religion to stifle this, you're pretty much fucked until the affluence vanishes and the cycle repeats.
 

Mikeyd03

Woodpecker
I went on a bumble date today. It’s amazing the standards these women have. It’s as if there is no margin for error...even the slightest imperfection is a reason to lose interest.

Can only be explained by the sheer number of options these women have.

Dating in America really can be discouraging.

Go online and that discouragement can quickly turn into a grim hopelessness.

Everything online has been a waste of time for me. The main thing I have gotten from it is a loss of confidence.

Social media + Online Dating + Thirsty men= Unlimited options for Women

Unlimited options= Delusional standards

If you fall anywhere outside of the right side of the bell curve...good luck.
 
Mikeyd03 said:
I went on a bumble date today. It’s amazing the standards these women have. It’s as if there is no margin for error...even the slightest imperfection is a reason to lose interest.

Can only be explained by the sheer number of options these women have.

Dating in America really can be discouraging.

Go online and that discouragement can quickly turn into a grim hopelessness.

Everything online has been a waste of time for me. The main thing I have gotten from it is a loss of confidence.

Social media + Online Dating + Thirsty men= Unlimited options for Women

Unlimited options= Delusional standards

If you fall anywhere outside of the right side of the bell curve...good luck.

What happened on the date? Low-key shit on you for not meeting her lofty standards? Constantly talked about all the fun and exciting adventures she goes on? Endless vacas, private boats, and infinity pools?


Or was she clueless about her own behavior and the difference in lifestyle was too much?


Guy: "What did you do last weekend?"

Date: "Had drinks with friends on a yacht in the afternoon! Later went to a penthouse and predrank then partied at a club where my friend who's a DJ. So-and-so celebrity was performing that night. You?"

Guy: "Umm..not much."
 

Mikeyd03

Woodpecker
Basically it was a one sided flow of effort.

For example:

Me: “How have your other bumble meetups gone?”

Her: “oh nothing crazy...”

Me: “What do you like to do for fun?”

Her: “Eat and sleep.” (Ok.)

She had a masculine way about her. Speaking in an unwarranted tone of confidence, reminded me of the gatekeepers I’d talk to at my sales jobs.

Obviously that behavior can be interpreted as disinterest. Bottom line though is she wasn’t stunning at all...just average.

I sense this girl had been pumped and dumped a few too many times.

I cut it short.

When you have unlimited options of course you’re going to be picky.

Think of restaurants.

You won’t eat just anywhere, only the place that tickles your taste buds just right...because there are so many.

Guys are restaurants to girls...many to choose from...and only picking the ones that make her tingle just right.
 

Louis IX

Pelican
Slightly off-topic , but I remember a woman who was complaining to me that she matched with someone on Tinder , then became friend etc... and the man told her that "we should stop talking and seeing each other because your Instagram profile is similar to a whore" ( She had only 3-4 pictures of her in swimming suit , not bitchy at all).

She was complaining so much about this , because it was probably the first time a man tells her this ugly truth. We should ALWAYS remind women that such behavior is not correct. Women will ADAPT to what men say.
Once a woman has been told ten times that she is not interesting because she is instawhoring , and all her friends too , they will change and try to portray another image.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Polniy_Sostav said:
Once a woman has been told ten times that she is not interesting because she is instawhoring , and all her friends too , they will change and try to portray another image.

I recently told a girl what I thought about Instagram, mentioning that it's the world's biggest prostitution agency and promotes bad habits among women.

*poof*

Screenshot-at-2019-10-13-17-19-40.png
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Solitaire said:
The social media/dating apps stuff feels like it's taken the culture to the edge of a bottomless chasm, and kicked it right off. No coming back? Maybe, but I don't see how, though also I haven't given it much thought yet.

Back in 1992 - I was about 24 years old, haha - I was quite excited to be exploring the wild west of the internet, the brand-new WWW, with urls and pages and pictures and everything. It was so liberating, compared to the dinosaur BBs from the 80s. And wow, what's this? AOL, got chat rooms and whatnot, got it's own content, etc. I actually private chatted with a chick from Tallahassee, drove over and spent the weekend with her. So that was cool. Those were the days, man. What gework said, as well - Tinder, the dumb FB dating thing, whatever - practically nothing but 5s and below (waaay below, sometimes). Whenever I do see a decent looking girl, RVF whispers into my ear ...

I had similar experiences in the early 2000s. There were barriers to entry that kept the population of people online restricted. You had to have a computer, internet, know how to navigate to to the particular places where these chat rooms were (you couldn't just google it). If you actually had a digital camera or scanner you were a God.

The women would both respond, and be interesting to talk to most of the time because they had a brain capable enough of the above steps. The younger ones were cool alternative type girls, the older ones were sly bored housewives. It was great, but then as more people got computers, especially IRT trolls and spammers it wasn't worth the time anymore.

That would be my advice to anyone in modern times, find an online or in person niche that has barriers to entry that favor you over other men.
 

mr-ed209

Sparrow
Dating apps have ruined women and I feel could be single biggest factor in a depopulation epidemic that is likely to become extremely noticeable over the next 10 years, as the current crop of early 20 somethings reach their 30s having no interpersonal relationships to show for it.

The dominance of smartphones has bread a normalcy to behaviours which are in essence anti social and fully detrimental to developing actual relationships. I often think a lot of the current dating BS would be mitigated if peoples only means of communication, between face to face encounters, would be to pick up a landline telephone and actually call them. Texting, WhatsApp, Snapchat etc have normalised these pseudo interactions and half conversations, which are so trivial they would not even warrant a simple phone call. They end up being an irritation to most guys and a source of resentment for women, when they ultimately decide Dave is an asshole because he couldn't be arsed to reply to her barrage of Dog selfie's and ultimately sabotages the relationship in favour of the attention from some online stranger; who's far too happy to entertain her neediness in the slim hope of scoring some pussy.

None of its real. These means of communication are delusional and they shelter people from the calibrating effects of social feedback that come with actually speaking to someone. Many women today are too shy to answer the phone to someone they actually know, but content enough to post filtered pictures of themselves half naked on social media for a few fire emoji's from online nobodies.
 
Honest question to think about. How many of us actually have ANYTHING in common with modern women?

They think the current clown world is normal. We think it's doomed. They think it's cool for a woman to sleep around and have a notch count in the triple digits. We think it's disgusting. Their entire time is spent getting attention from social media. We think it's gross. Their entire existence revolves around what their equally dumb friends think. It's repulsive to us. How can such a dumb, ineffective, useless creature have so many luxuries?

Has there ever been a time where there was such an ideological gap between men and women? They've all drank the koolaid and we're left thinking what the hell happened, are there any normal women left???

They all subscribe to the dumbest ideals, live contradictory lives, are immune to criticism, and see men as accessories.

I am utterly clueless. Someone try and sell me on the idea of women. What's so god damn good about them?
 

Dilated

Woodpecker
^I could make a pretty good argument that the disconnect between men and women is currently larger than it has ever been. Women have even managed to torpedo the one thing that makes them unique and the one true gift they have to offer- the biological imperative. Many men, including myself, have begun to question whether to produce progeny with them.

Here in USA women have always had a gun...but a gun is useless without bullets. What’s different now is the government (and culture) has supplied the bullets. Women can behave in any manner without impunity, backed by the strongest entity that’s ever existed- the United States government.

It’s tough to win that one if you’re a man.

It takes a special person to refuse to eviscerate someone even when they can do it anytime they want, reasons be damned, and have the full backing of the strongest entity on earth. I know nary a woman that could resist the siren call of such a deal.

We all know the laundry list of expectations that women have of men. What, may I ask, are the expectations that men have of women?

It never gets mentioned.

50 years ago this was understood- each sex knew their role and expectations. Now nobody knows their role and there are no cultural/societal/religious checks on this.

I fear only a divine correction can right the ship.
 
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