Online dating in 2007 vs now: what the h-ll happened?

I agree, and I'm definitely not going to defend him, but I can maybe explain it just from a mathematical standpoint.

First, he never imagined that the mainstream press would be willing to write an article on him. The calculation he made was, there are three options after she turns him down: (1) forget her and move on with your life. The probability you'll end up having sex with her if you choose this option is definitely 0% (2) play the nice guy, reply with something like, "it was great to meet you and I'd love to stay friends" - at best, this results in becoming an orbiter. The probability that you have sex with her is still 0% or nearly 0. (3) play the jerk. At worst, she blocks you (0% outcome). But at best, she stays engaged with you in order to defend herself and also because she likes drama. There is a small but non-zero probability that he can convert that into sex.

That's what he was going for, I imagine. I don't recommend it or condone it or defend it, but I will suggest that it'd be fantastic if women would take a dozen milliseconds to consider the insight this gives into their own psyche. They really do like drama. There really are women who have sex with men like this. I know it offends you, ladies, that I'm pointing this out, and I know you prefer to default to the "zomg patriarchy I'm a victim" narrative, but what I'm saying here is true.

And lest you believe I'm unfair, I think the exact same thing about simps who are taken advantage of by women. I don't hate women because they scam men on OnlyFans. The fact that that tactic is possible is insight into the weaknesses of men - and as a man it's important for me to face up to that. Ladies, you should do the same.

yep

He was running "Asshole" game which in the West comes off as the best probability of him getting a sexual encounter.

However it did not work out well for him due to whatever reason. It looks like modern secular dating/game in the West is increasingly becoming a zero-sum game. You can either avoid women who reject you and get nothing, become a worthless simp in the hope that you will be given some pity after lady gets pumped & dumped by chad or act like the Asshole and either give the woman the emotional investment and drama for her to fall for you or fail in the process and watch as she doxxes you to oblivion to the point that you lose your job and reputation.

It's no wonder that a large number men nowadays are either turning to MGTOW or on the other end of the spectrum becoming onlyfans beta simps. It's just not worth it.

Sadly as a result marriage rates are falling and ideas like misandry and misogyny are on the rise slowly making the genders further apart from understanding one another. The only fix for this is to reintroduce strict religious values into western society but sadly I don't see that happening unless their is a major famine or WWIII like crisis that hit's the planet.
 
It's just not worth it.

I still enjoy flirting. I enjoy making a girl laugh. So, because of that, I'm able to enjoy practicing "game" for that alone. And when I sometimes bag one for sex, even better.

Beyond that, sadly, I have to agree that it's not really worth it. If a woman wants a date ...meh, it's not worth it. If she wants an LTR, it's probably not worth it. If she wants marriage, it's definitely not worth it.

And I'll concede that things may be different in religious communities, because what I'm describing is my view on the kind of women that I'm seeing in secular society. For me, they're not worth anything more than the bit of dopamine I get from flirting, and the occasional fleeting pleasure of sex. Anything more than that crosses into "no thanks" territory for me.

Pretty sad situation we're in.
 

monsquid

Kingfisher
Because the western "modern" women craves attention and validation. Most men I know can have street altercations and not give a snuff about it in a few hours time.

A woman get's cold approached in daytime and you bet she will probably let all of her social circle and work colleagues know about it for a whole week.
It's humble bragging. She wants to signal to her friends how attractive she is.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
I still enjoy flirting. I enjoy making a girl laugh. So, because of that, I'm able to enjoy practicing "game" for that alone. And when I sometimes bag one for sex, even better.

Beyond that, sadly, I have to agree that it's not really worth it. If a woman wants a date ...meh, it's not worth it. If she wants an LTR, it's probably not worth it. If she wants marriage, it's definitely not worth it.

And I'll concede that things may be different in religious communities, because what I'm describing is my view on the kind of women that I'm seeing in secular society. For me, they're not worth anything more than the bit of dopamine I get from flirting, and the occasional fleeting pleasure of sex. Anything more than that crosses into "no thanks" territory for me.

Pretty sad situation we're in.

Correct, you aren't protected by anything.

There are very small numbers of religious women at this point (generation) of America that are interested in family/marriage over career in some capacity (especially if they are good looking). It's not all their fault, as it is the current of the culture, but certain people should understand this and try to combat it. That's why it is true that things won't change until you shelve the culture that says women's careers and economic dreams are important; they aren't. At most, they should be a supplement. The natural result of understanding good matchmaking is precisely what all of us have said: 10+ year age gaps with established men who are virtuous and want to marry someone who is worth marrying. Not divorced, not players who had their shot, etc. It's another level of disgusting that they don't even want to marry a good man and not worry about economics. That's how bad it really is and how fake this generation truly is, since anyone with sense knows this charade of women in the workplace, among other things, can't last since by definition it only progresses with the decline of culture and country.
 
I still enjoy flirting. I enjoy making a girl laugh. So, because of that, I'm able to enjoy practicing "game" for that alone. And when I sometimes bag one for sex, even better.

Beyond that, sadly, I have to agree that it's not really worth it. If a woman wants a date ...meh, it's not worth it. If she wants an LTR, it's probably not worth it. If she wants marriage, it's definitely not worth it.

And I'll concede that things may be different in religious communities, because what I'm describing is my view on the kind of women that I'm seeing in secular society. For me, they're not worth anything more than the bit of dopamine I get from flirting, and the occasional fleeting pleasure of sex. Anything more than that crosses into "no thanks" territory for me.

Pretty sad situation we're in.

FWIW some aspects of "game" can be helpful especially if you are a noob entering a relationship for the first time. I learnt a lot about holding masculine frame and igniting interest this way and I gained much needed confidence.

However using "game" for casual sex and meeting random women on the street for a couple of hours a day is not helpful at all and ultimately makes an individual part of the problem causing our societies decay instead of trying to fix it.

I probably should have clarified this in my earlier post.
 

Aizen

Kingfisher
I agree, and I'm definitely not going to defend him, but I can maybe explain it just from a mathematical standpoint.

First, he never imagined that the mainstream press would be willing to write an article on him. The calculation he made was, there are three options after she turns him down: (1) forget her and move on with your life. The probability you'll end up having sex with her if you choose this option is definitely 0% (2) play the nice guy, reply with something like, "it was great to meet you and I'd love to stay friends" - at best, this results in becoming an orbiter. The probability that you have sex with her is still 0% or nearly 0. (3) play the jerk. At worst, she blocks you (0% outcome). But at best, she stays engaged with you in order to defend herself and also because she likes drama. There is a small but non-zero probability that he can convert that into sex.

That's what he was going for, I imagine. I don't recommend it or condone it or defend it, but I will suggest that it'd be fantastic if women would take a dozen milliseconds to consider the insight this gives into their own psyche. They really do like drama. There really are women who have sex with men like this. I know it offends you, ladies, that I'm pointing this out, and I know you prefer to default to the "zomg patriarchy I'm a victim" narrative, but what I'm saying here is true.

And lest you believe I'm unfair, I think the exact same thing about simps who are taken advantage of by women. I don't hate women because they scam men on OnlyFans. The fact that that tactic is possible is insight into the weaknesses of men - and as a man it's important for me to face up to that. Ladies, you should do the same.

Interesting, what made him think he couldn’t get doxxed by the MSM?

Almost every guy out there who doesn’t live under a rock is aware of the ongoing MeToo movement and the fine line that get you there. It’s especially risky when dealing with bitchy women, as their poor attitude has likely gone unchecked to date. Women like this are very used to getting their way in life and will feel justified in whatever they decide to do with your contact information and communications history. They can do this all on an emotional whim.
 
Deleting all dating apps is the single best choice you can ever make in life.

Unless you want to date a desperate fat ugly girl, just delete dating apps and never install them ever again.

YES. This post here. Preach, brother. I'm off all apps too. Can't lose if you don't play. Sometimes, the winning move is to step aside and watch everyone else ride the roller coaster.

What I can say is that niche sites are the best approach for any guy who just wants a happy, healthy, functional relationship. If you're Muslim, go on a Muslim app; if you're black, go on a black dating app; if you're a redneck, go on rednecklove, etc. Sure, it will be impossible to meet a Christian girl as a Muslim guy, or a white guy as a black girl, or a city person as a redneck, when you're on these niche apps, but you will find people who value finding someone from the same culture or ethnic/racial background, and it's a lot less disheartening than trying your luck on Tinder.

I went on Tinder and got 6 matches (minus bots and cam girls) after 6 weeks. I went on an ethnic app for the community I belong to and had 120 matches in the same amount of time. And from those matches, about 20% weren't shy to initiate contact, and I got replies from nearly 75% of all the women I messaged. And I'm still single.

I'm off all apps now because the girls are all the same (same insecurities, same problems, same fears), on these apps. I want to meet someone a little more organically, via church conferences, or connections of mutual friends. I'm even open to meeting someone online via FB or IG if it's not forced and happens naturally. But consider what I'm saying and maybe some of it will be applicable to you :)
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
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Jünger

Ostrich
Niche site, seems nonwoke looking at their Twitter account

 
I don't want to black pill too hard with a post like that. Just laying out the reality. As for what you can do about it, the easiest answer is to not use any dating apps. The thing is, not every woman is using those apps. And more importantly, the vast majority of the highest value women are not using the apps - because they simply don't have to. They get more than enough attention through their interactions in real life and through their social circle. The trick is putting yourself in a position to move in the same social circles as those women. That is the new game for 2020 and beyond. Let me repeat that for emphasis: the entire concept of "Game" over the next decade will be less about lone wolf cold approaching and more about building social circles that naturally attract high-value women into your orbit.

Social media is the other side of the modern dating coin that exists alongside dating apps. You can essentially think of them as parallel paths to the same destination. But the dating app path is covert, while the social media path is overt. The Chad on the dating app can easily pull mid-range level women with no effort via the covert path, but he will struggle to get high value women that way. Because the high value women prefer to stay on the overt path where everyone can see them. There remains a stigma among high value women regarding dating apps, because to use a dating app is to essentially admit that you are NOT a high value woman - because if you were you would have no need for one. And there is a great deal of truth to this. The result is that a lot of great women (solid 8s with good personalities) don't use dating apps and instead end up settling for guys they meet through social circle!

So my recommendations are in summary: stay away from dating apps, put a LOT of effort into building up your social circle, and create a strong overt pathway for women in your social orbit to enter your life through savvy use of social media.

I've found that women who are 8-10 on looks, especially those who know it, typically refuse to use data apps because they have an ego thing going and they cannot bring themselves to admit that their inability to keep the interest of a high-value man is due to the fact that their looks can get the attention of any man but their personality cannot keep a high value man interested and they won't settle for a 5-7 man who might tolerate their nonsensical drama because he is so enamored at the thought of having an 8-10 woman.

I've seen women who are 8-10 on looks, but with a bitter nasty contentious personality [let's rank them a 0-2 on personality] who can get offers for hook-ups, propositioned, casual dates, from anybody and everybody under the Sun, but they never get offers of long-term commitment from the sort of men they want to be in a long-term relationship with, and if they get the offer, they tend to blow it in short order by being too demanding and high maintenance.
 
to be honest pickup in someways is a pseudo science and a scam. At least in 2020 anyways. So good on the Indians for getting their money back.

Now to carry on with my point I think we are gravitating to a society in which Women will be choosing their mates and making the first move instead of men. No amount of masculine game theory will help you.

If you disagree then I challenge you to visit any city in the Anglosphere and look at how most young urban couples look like. Its usually a decent looking women walking in a somewhat arrogant way holding hands with a cutish looking guy (who probably can't fight to save his life). When they walk the streets hand in hand it seems almost like the woman is leading whilst the guy is trailing. Also by observing body language it seems like the woman is more grounded and has more of her goals in check compared to the guy. Even those "goals" are probably some superficial nonsense like building her social media portfolio.

I also know of some young women who advertise their boyfriends on social media. Like make typical girlish youtube/IG/facebook vids with them and what not. From what I can gather western women from ages of 18 - 23 are conditioned to be attracted to that typical "cute toy boy" look. It also doesn't help that due to the current state of society that Woman in that age bracket see guys from age 30 + as anything but Sugardaddies.

From the guys in the late millennial/zoomer generation that I know of a significant number have told me that they have got into relationships in which the girl asked for their number first and not the other way round.

In fact guys nowadays are so soy and effeminate that If you casually approached a western women in the 18-23 age bracket with well grounded game and social calibration she will just give you a stunned deer in the headlights look and walk away. They are just not used to and conditioned not to be attracted to masculinity at all.

It actually reminds me of my younger days (I am 29 now). When I was skinnier and dare I say more handsome (in a boyband looking way) I attracted more women. These days not so much.

Nowadays I am more muscular, much more masculine, more socially calibrated, on NO FAP almost regularly and don't seem to get that level of attraction that I once used to have. Only plus side Is that I get more respect from Men nowadays especially when walking down the street. Less people willing or wanting to piss me off. When I have a conversation at work or with people in my social circle I find that men nowadays are more inclined to agree with my point of view than 4/5 years ago.

I guess there is a trade off in everything lol



A lot of what it boils down to is that so many young men have been taught to find meaning and purpose in a woman and with a woman. Their entire existence winds up centered around a relationship with a woman instead of a relationship with God, a relationship with themselves, and a career/job/calling.

A man who makes women the center of his world will fail in everything and will never be more than an inadequate broken man. These sort of men are easily molded by women into being accessories for her to dress and photograph for her social media feed.

A woman compliments a man's life, she should never become his life.
 
One notable debasement - if we are comparing 2007 to today - is the proliferation of mass tattooing. That type of body art on women was not ubiquitous in 2007, but it sure is today.

In 2007, I might have been able to "save" a wayward gal. But now, if she's already covered in body ink, there's no point in even trying.


I consider women who tattoo themselves as having selected against themselves for marriage/reproduction. I find tattoos, especially on women, to be absolutely repulsive.

Imagine Catherine Deneuve in the 1960s with full sleeve tattoos and tats on her neck. Imagine Audrey Hepburn with her face and legs covered in tattoos.

It is like slapping a bunch of hideous bumper sticks on a classic Ferrari or scratching initials and slogans on the frame and into the barrel of a Luger or a Colt Python. It is disgusting.
 
You don't have to go back that far to realize how catastrophic internet dating, social media and technology made dating for the majority of men. Most people dated and married people on the same level as looks and body composition as them even in the mid 90s. An Obese 2 landwhale woman dated an obese 2 landwhale man. A slim 5/10 guy dated a slim 5/10 gal etc. Remember, dating apps have been pushed to be the singular most tolerable way of dating nowadays. So what does that mean? According to newer studies, 80% of women share 4% of men in terms of interaction on Tinder. Yes, you heard right... the 80/20 OKCupid stats are actually outdated.
 
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