Online dating in 2007 vs now: what the h-ll happened?

Nefarias

Pigeon
Women act like this because men enable them in a first place. Just try to be a decent looking woman for 1 day and you will get countless messages begging for pictures, offers for free vacations, gifts and endless attention. And thats JUST online. Girls think that it's normal, one girl friend even asked me "Why would you even watch porn, when you can just get a real girl for sex from tinder". They are just clueless about SMV and shit like that, they dont even think about that, they are too busy focusing on their own shallow life. It's just different reality for them, and we can only blame thirsty soyboys and gouvernement not these dumb girls.
 

loremipsum

Kingfisher
They don't think about it because they don't need to.
Women will never admit the huge difficulty gap between getting laid as a man and getting laid as a woman.
That's why they think it's OK to slut around because "men do it too" (that is the Chads that pump and dump them).
 

Mikeyd03

Woodpecker
@nefarias agree that thirsty men are a large part of the problem.

The other aspect you’re overlooking is how self control is rewarded in SMP.

Soyboy is currently a 5 in SMV.

Say soyboy cleans up his act:
-no thirsty messages
-focuses on career/health
-no partying/self improvement etc

Soyboy manages to go from a 5 to a 7 in SMV.

Even the average woman (5 and 6’s) are shooting for the top 10%.

So soy boy’s reward for red pill self improvement in 2019?

Maybe a short term relationship or fwb with below average millennial woman.

Even then...he is still disposable.

Not all that incentivizing.
 
It's best to advocate for personal responsibility, but how can one man make a society-wide change? If the pool of normal women is so limited, what's a man supposed to do? He can't keep fishing in toxic waters while expecting non-toxic fish.

And before anyone mentions traveling to a third world country to find a traditional wife, that's an insane solution and always was.

Think about when you were young and society wasn't completely devoid of morals yet. Did you ever imagine leaving your peaceful, rich, advanced, first world country and slumming it in the semi-diseased, poverty-stricken, backwaters of god knows where to find a wife?! No, you always envisioned finding a loyal charming woman from your own home country who you'd marry and start a family with.

Back then, if someone told you, "dude, drop these thin good looking American women and go a third worlder. Ya, they're poor, barely know how to read and write, and you can't really communicate with them, but she'd make a great housewife!". You'd say that he's lost his mind, and that you will find a good wife here in America.

Another reason why a foreign wife is not a solution is that it's a global world now. Third worlders know what's out here, and they want it. They want to be corrupted by the same influences that you despise. You bring a traditional wife here and in 5 years she'll become what you were escaping from in the first place. I always laugh when a man marries and overseas woman thinking she's any different. They're not. They want beta bux even more than the women here because they're poor. They will chew you up and spit you out like any modern women will.

I'm clueless, so I'm all ears for any workable solutions. What's a man supposed to do when he wants a good wife but decadence and wealth have completely ruined his women? And doesn't want to leave because he still likes running water, modern medicine, and decent laws?
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Kungfu said:
It's best to advocate for personal responsibility, but how can one man make a society-wide change? If the pool of normal women is so limited, what's a man supposed to do? He can't keep fishing in toxic waters while expecting non-toxic fish.

And before anyone mentions traveling to a third world country to find a traditional wife, that's an insane solution and always was.

Think about when you were young and society wasn't completely devoid of morals yet. Did you ever imagine leaving your peaceful, rich, advanced, first world country and slumming it in the semi-diseased, poverty-stricken, backwaters of god knows where to find a wife?! No, you always envisioned finding a loyal charming woman from your own home country who you'd marry and start a family with.

Back then, if someone told you, "dude, drop these thin good looking American women and go a third worlder. Ya, they're poor, barely know how to read and write, and you can't really communicate with them, but she'd make a great housewife!". You'd say that he's lost his mind, and that you will find a good wife here in America.

Another reason why a foreign wife is not a solution is that it's a global world now. Third worlders know what's out here, and they want it. They want to be corrupted by the same influences that you despise. You bring a traditional wife here and in 5 years she'll become what you were escaping from in the first place. I always laugh when a man marries and overseas woman thinking she's any different. They're not. They want beta bux even more than the women here because they're poor. They will chew you up and spit you out like any modern women will.

I'm clueless, so I'm all ears for any workable solutions. What's a man supposed to do when he wants a good wife but decadence and wealth have completely ruined his women? And doesn't want to leave because he still likes running water, modern medicine, and decent laws?

Join a very conservative church and begin to network. Attend co-ed bible conferences, events etc. Attend bible study with old people, tell them you are looking for a wife that is really committed to the lord. Old people will connect you if you are not a weirdo.

Older people are ignored in today's society yet are someone's family and full of wisdom, reach out to them in your church and you will reap large rewards.

This stuff isn't impossible. Subcultures for everything exist and are right under our noses yet seem mysterious and remote. Renaissance faire larpers and 'goths' are actual subcultures with sizeable amounts of people, you just have to know how to find them and get connected. The same goes with communities that have conservative women.

You may also have to accept that a conservative woman these days might not be that hot. That is a decision you'll have to make, as the more your wife looks like she could be an instagram model, the more strongly she will be offered temptations. Whereas if you take a christian woman with thick glasses, a lazy eye and scoliosis you can probably bet she will be devoted to you for her mortal life.
 

flyinghorse

Woodpecker
Anyone other guys successful on tinder?

I'm not a top tier man - just decent looking with an average job and I can get dates and hookup easily with looksmatched women.

Perhaps some of you are in a bad location?
 
Mikeyd03 said:
I went on a bumble date today. It’s amazing the standards these women have. It’s as if there is no margin for error...even the slightest imperfection is a reason to lose interest.

Can only be explained by the sheer number of options these women have.

Dating in America really can be discouraging.

Go online and that discouragement can quickly turn into a grim hopelessness.

Everything online has been a waste of time for me. The main thing I have gotten from it is a loss of confidence.

Social media + Online Dating + Thirsty men= Unlimited options for Women

Unlimited options= Delusional standards

If you fall anywhere outside of the right side of the bell curve...good luck.

"It bothers me how little women bring to the table, and how many demands they have." -Patrice O'Neal
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
Kungfu said:
It's best to advocate for personal responsibility, but how can one man make a society-wide change? If the pool of normal women is so limited, what's a man supposed to do? He can't keep fishing in toxic waters while expecting non-toxic fish.

And before anyone mentions traveling to a third world country to find a traditional wife, that's an insane solution and always was.

Think about when you were young and society wasn't completely devoid of morals yet. Did you ever imagine leaving your peaceful, rich, advanced, first world country and slumming it in the semi-diseased, poverty-stricken, backwaters of god knows where to find a wife?! No, you always envisioned finding a loyal charming woman from your own home country who you'd marry and start a family with.

Back then, if someone told you, "dude, drop these thin good looking American women and go a third worlder. Ya, they're poor, barely know how to read and write, and you can't really communicate with them, but she'd make a great housewife!". You'd say that he's lost his mind, and that you will find a good wife here in America.

Another reason why a foreign wife is not a solution is that it's a global world now. Third worlders know what's out here, and they want it. They want to be corrupted by the same influences that you despise. You bring a traditional wife here and in 5 years she'll become what you were escaping from in the first place. I always laugh when a man marries and overseas woman thinking she's any different. They're not. They want beta bux even more than the women here because they're poor. They will chew you up and spit you out like any modern women will.

I'm clueless, so I'm all ears for any workable solutions. What's a man supposed to do when he wants a good wife but decadence and wealth have completely ruined his women? And doesn't want to leave because he still likes running water, modern medicine, and decent laws?

Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about and indeed, these are the questions. The most standard answer is, "go there" but of course make sure it's an acceptable place to even consider (yes, I know by comparison there aren't many).

The biggest issue is the social challenge of being somewhat older and, if you want a family, the almost certain requirement of the girl being 30 (+/- a couple of years) at the oldest. The age at which the western hambeasts get humbled is even increasing since the gravy train, corporate or governmentt jobs haven't run out yet. They won't get quite as much attention as they age, or will perceive that it's not worth it to risk a better catch than they deserved at 30+ (if they happen to nab him), but what good does that do a solid guy with resources who is just a bit older? He still gets last pickings in the West. Yes, the younger girls if not properly raised or first partner will get crazy attention if they are anywhere near even a 7 rating. That's the danger of the west.

If one must, the only strategy of importing a woman would be a) to a rural area, b) make sure she's pregnant early and often, and c) pray.

You have to decrease the possibilities as much as you can. Once you've made her a mother and put some weight on her, along with the "wall" approaching, it behooves her to stick with that if you aren't in a city where a 5 minute walk or a 15 minute drive is insanely easy, as a opposed to a 45-60 minute ride to meet some random JimBob Cooter that is exponentially hard to pull off with kids and other responsibilities to take care of.
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
Dr. Howard said:
You may also have to accept that a conservative woman these days might not be that hot. That is a decision you'll have to make, as the more your wife looks like she could be an instagram model, the more strongly she will be offered temptations. Whereas if you take a christian woman with thick glasses, a lazy eye and scoliosis you can probably bet she will be devoted to you for her mortal life.

I hear you, but here's where the rubber hits the road, and makes it so hard since so many women are average to bad or just, homely. Often the greatest in personality is also because they had to be nice, kind, solid precisely because didn't do anything to you looking at them. It is true that the hotter she is the more dangerous she is though, absolutely no doubt.

I come from a conservative niche and while I can't say that I went 0-fer in my entire life of potentials coming from various "connections", I would say even the most traditional from my religious circles are still American which means they are acculturated into everything west no matter how traditional they are otherwise --- anti age gap, long travel to church for "communities", and pushing their daughters to college and beyond.

I'm sad to say that the career thing is just something you will not change until an economic collapse hits and functional destroys those dreams or the possibilities. Sadly, it's the #1 factor why women are so much worse in the west = you don't get them at their best, most fertile ages and they don't learn how to take care of a man and home, on average.
 

questor70

Ostrich
Here's an observation from the field for what it's worth.

When I was last working online dating I gradually adopted a more and more merciless policy of bailing on leads when there was a lack of spark or red-flags. At first I was bending over backwards to reach the icebreaker/first-date stage. Then I started vetting at the online chat stage, which has cut my first dates down to zero.

What I found most instructive was the period where I was going on all those failed first dates. I realized that the majority of women, at least women who would meet me off dating apps, are BORING to me.

1) Soccer moms who have no life beyond their children .
2) Yuppie moms who are like 1) but carrying Gucci bags and driving Volvos
3) Struggling immigrants I have nothing in common with

The most interesting were women who never married and never had kids. These were the types who had seen the world and done a bunch of things, so they had tales and time on their hands. The problem is they never settled down because they were some shade of crazy.

I think everyone has two kinds of a type, a physical type and a personality type. In the past I used to barrel through as long as she passed the physical criteria but now I know when she won't click any farther than the initial stages when both sides are always on their best behavior.

When I do the math now, the odds are not good. The only upside is I have surely spared myself a few dead-end short-term relationships I could have had in the interim, and who needs that drama?

I think as guys we tend to think in terms of goalposts. If we get beyond a goalpost, we're home-free. And that's what I've moved past. It doesn't really matter if you get a right swipe or not if you meet the person and she's as dull as a sack of rocks. It takes a lot of discipline to turn away a lead over a disqualifying criteria when you don't get leads very often. But investing in someone when you're not feeling it 100% is a recipe for trouble. Just because she's willing to proceed doesn't make it worthwhile.
 

Nefarias

Pigeon
Truth is, there is no solution. Once you swallow the redpill you just cant be truly happy ever again.

Every time I like a girl, I'm trying so fucking hard to not see her character flaws, her shallow mind etc. Just to be happy for a few weeks and "love" her and feel loved. But I cant trick my brain into being ignorant - once you get to the stage where you experinced/have knowledge of how things work, I get more depressed and angry on myself - why cant I just be clueless and happy. Every fucking time I take her to a dinner or spend money on her I think "she fucked some guy for a 5 dollar drink, why should I buy her gifts and shit?" shit, sometimes it was me who fucked her after few drinks and now she is acting like a princess talking about "one day I want a guy thats gonna buy me a diamond ring" (that really happened to me, I was fucking speechless - I rawdoged her like 5 minutes ago knowing her for 2 hours and she tells me how she only dates guys after 6 months of "friendship" - poor guy who ends up wifing her up) Every time some girl does that stupid "omg you are so awesome thank you" teehee bullshit I feel angry and tricked for doing something for her. I spend my time with her just because she has a pussy, and I feel weak and stupid for that.

But what else is there for a man? Travel and fuck sluts gets old quickly but what are the alternatives? Get married, work 50h/w, have kids, divorce, burnout from work, depression, regret, die? Honestly sometimes I hate redpill. Killed my happiness in life. Gotta get religious and change my mindset I think.
 
If being on dating apps in the USA this past year has taught me anything it is the truth behind the age old saying that if a woman is single after (about) the age of 26 there it is for a good reason.
 

loremipsum

Kingfisher
Nefarias said:
Truth is, there is no solution. Once you swallow the redpill you just cant be truly happy ever again.

Every time I like a girl, I'm trying so fucking hard to not see her character flaws, her shallow mind etc. Just to be happy for a few weeks and "love" her and feel loved. But I cant trick my brain into being ignorant - once you get to the stage where you experinced/have knowledge of how things work, I get more depressed and angry on myself - why cant I just be clueless and happy. Every fucking time I take her to a dinner or spend money on her I think "she fucked some guy for a 5 dollar drink, why should I buy her gifts and shit?" shit, sometimes it was me who fucked her after few drinks and now she is acting like a princess talking about "one day I want a guy thats gonna buy me a diamond ring" (that really happened to me, I was fucking speechless - I rawdoged her like 5 minutes ago knowing her for 2 hours and she tells me how she only dates guys after 6 months of "friendship" - poor guy who ends up wifing her up) Every time some girl does that stupid "omg you are so awesome thank you" teehee bullshit I feel angry and tricked for doing something for her. I spend my time with her just because she has a pussy, and I feel weak and stupid for that.

But what else is there for a man? Travel and fuck sluts gets old quickly but what are the alternatives? Get married, work 50h/w, have kids, divorce, burnout from work, depression, regret, die? Honestly sometimes I hate redpill. Killed my happiness in life. Gotta get religious and change my mindset I think.


Looks like someone overdosed on black pill.
 

wwtl

Kingfisher
Nefarias said:
Every time I like a girl, I'm trying so fucking hard to not see her character flaws, her shallow mind etc. Just to be happy for a few weeks and "love" her and feel loved. But I cant trick my brain into being ignorant - once you get to the stage where you experinced/have knowledge of how things work, I get more depressed and angry on myself - why cant I just be clueless and happy. Every fucking time I take her to a dinner or spend money on her I think "she fucked some guy for a 5 dollar drink, why should I buy her gifts and shit?" shit, sometimes it was me who fucked her after few drinks and now she is acting like a princess talking about "one day I want a guy thats gonna buy me a diamond ring" (that really happened to me, I was fucking speechless - I rawdoged her like 5 minutes ago knowing her for 2 hours and she tells me how she only dates guys after 6 months of "friendship" - poor guy who ends up wifing her up) Every time some girl does that stupid "omg you are so awesome thank you" teehee bullshit I feel angry and tricked for doing something for her. I spend my time with her just because she has a pussy, and I feel weak and stupid for that.

Your problem is fornication. Remove it and see a girl for who she is really is. Don't waste time on dinners or other useless leisure, as these tell you nothing and get into more challenging and interesting activities together to see how she handles herself and how she follows your lead.

For a proper relationship the vagina is the least important part of a girl. First and foremost you need to look for the happy gene. Then give it some time to see if you develop some chemistry (no, 5 "dates" might not be enough). In the end love is a decision to love the flaws of the other person as well. If you cannot do that, you will never be in a functioning LTR.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Nefarias said:
Truth is, there is no solution. Once you swallow the redpill you just cant be truly happy ever again.

Every time I like a girl, I'm trying so fucking hard to not see her character flaws, her shallow mind etc. Just to be happy for a few weeks and "love" her and feel loved. But I cant trick my brain into being ignorant - once you get to the stage where you experinced/have knowledge of how things work, I get more depressed and angry on myself - why cant I just be clueless and happy. Every fucking time I take her to a dinner or spend money on her I think "she fucked some guy for a 5 dollar drink, why should I buy her gifts and shit?" shit, sometimes it was me who fucked her after few drinks and now she is acting like a princess talking about "one day I want a guy thats gonna buy me a diamond ring" (that really happened to me, I was fucking speechless - I rawdoged her like 5 minutes ago knowing her for 2 hours and she tells me how she only dates guys after 6 months of "friendship" - poor guy who ends up wifing her up) Every time some girl does that stupid "omg you are so awesome thank you" teehee bullshit I feel angry and tricked for doing something for her. I spend my time with her just because she has a pussy, and I feel weak and stupid for that.

But what else is there for a man? Travel and fuck sluts gets old quickly but what are the alternatives? Get married, work 50h/w, have kids, divorce, burnout from work, depression, regret, die? Honestly sometimes I hate redpill. Killed my happiness in life. Gotta get religious and change my mindset I think.

Definitely, I've put in a prayer for you.
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
questor70 said:
The most interesting were women who never married and never had kids. These were the types who had seen the world and done a bunch of things, so they had tales and time on their hands. The problem is they never settled down because they were some shade of crazy.

I think everyone has two kinds of a type, a physical type and a personality type. In the past I used to barrel through as long as she passed the physical criteria but now I know when she won't click any farther than the initial stages when both sides are always on their best behavior.

Here it is.

The real question is, at this point, is online even as a supplement worth anything? It is a serious question. I think in other countries with a niche crowd (family oriented, feminine, your look or type, etc.) it could be. I think mostly now, though, we know the goods are all out in the "real world" and pretty much assign a value via some sort of social circle.

Even from its onset, online was always a short term prospect. The problem is that beyond 2014, you couldn't really get good looking girls on apps anymore --- certainly any that would actually meet up.
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
Nefarias said:
But what else is there for a man? Travel and fuck sluts gets old quickly but what are the alternatives? Get married, work 50h/w, have kids, divorce, burnout from work, depression, regret, die? Honestly sometimes I hate redpill. Killed my happiness in life. Gotta get religious and change my mindset I think.

All of this shit will go through your mind bro. I'm an optimist, but I have my frustrations and rants occasionally (hey, even the prophets and saints complained, trust me), and I guess that's why I was laughing when I read this post.

Getting to know God will change your focus but will also make you realize how hard denying yourself is and what suffering is in a different way. Let's put it this way --- this culture ain't gonna teach girls to be better people. So we need to change our focus. I would argue the biggest challenge is that as someone who knows the red pill and is getting older you want to do what is right for a girl, a family, etc. but the culture tries with all of its might to stop you and your virtuous intent. Another form of suffering.

But it's ok, we will get through it.
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
wwtl said:
Your problem is fornication. Remove it and see a girl for who she is really is. Don't waste time on dinners or other useless leisure, as these tell you nothing and get into more challenging and interesting activities together to see how she handles herself and how she follows your lead.

For a proper relationship the vagina is the least important part of a girl. First and foremost you need to look for the happy gene. Then give it some time to see if you develop some chemistry (no, 5 "dates" might not be enough). In the end love is a decision to love the flaws of the other person as well. If you cannot do that, you will never be in a functioning LTR.

This advice is wise. I must say though, if I met a girl with qualities that I considered worthy of being my wife, I wouldn't pursue such aims. I can say that for a subset of us (and I'm not proud of this), putting sex forward was always more about her not having qualities that were worth sticking around for. In fact, that's the very point of it all ... you're looking for the girl where you're like, "Ehh, I don't care if I bang her soon because I actually like her". There's a balance to all of this, but by definition she shouldn't be allowing you to do that anyway if she is quality ... I guess that's why so many let you, lol --- they just don't have much to offer. Sorry for more black pill.
 

questor70

Ostrich
wwtl said:
For a proper relationship the vagina is the least important part of a girl. First and foremost you need to look for the happy gene. Then give it some time to see if you develop some chemistry (no, 5 "dates" might not be enough). In the end love is a decision to love the flaws of the other person as well. If you cannot do that, you will never be in a functioning LTR.

What you're describing is really only half of the equation. Where are women who will be receptive to this sort of slow-burn courtship to be found? Because if you come to the table playing the wrong hand all you're going to get is friend-zoned.

Kid Twist said:
beyond 2014, you couldn't really get good looking girls on apps anymore --- certainly any that would actually meet up.

It's not really about appearance as much as attitude.

What I find is that even women who enter into dating apps with the intention of finding LTRs wind up becoming serial-daters. The best first-dates I tended to have were with women who were brand new to these apps and therefore not yet jaded by pump-and-dumps or overwhelmed with the paradox of choice. But once they've been through the cycle a few times it sort of sucks the soul out from them and they just keep going through the motions like lifeless zombies playing musical-chairs. I know this because dating war stories always wind up coming up during the first-date. It may be a no-no, but if I don't bring it up, they do.

I also know they are in purgatory because I see their profiles keep revolving over and over again, across every single app, sort of like a clearance item that won't sell. Might be the pot calling the kettle black I suppose but that's the vibe I get over time. I'm looking for more or less a narrow demographic and there are a finite number of women around, so it's like a card game of concentration watching the same faces pop up again and again, month after month, year after year. I even had one women match me again after I had already gone on a bad first date with her. She had somehow forgotten the date and yet, perhaps due to her desperation, matched again.
 

wwtl

Kingfisher
Kid Twist said:
wwtl said:
Your problem is fornication. Remove it and see a girl for who she is really is. Don't waste time on dinners or other useless leisure, as these tell you nothing and get into more challenging and interesting activities together to see how she handles herself and how she follows your lead.

For a proper relationship the vagina is the least important part of a girl. First and foremost you need to look for the happy gene. Then give it some time to see if you develop some chemistry (no, 5 "dates" might not be enough). In the end love is a decision to love the flaws of the other person as well. If you cannot do that, you will never be in a functioning LTR.

This advice is wise. I must say though, if I met a girl with qualities that I considered worthy of being my wife, I wouldn't pursue such aims. I can say that for a subset of us (and I'm not proud of this), putting sex forward was always more about her not having qualities that were worth sticking around for. In fact, that's the very point of it all ... you're looking for the girl where you're like, "Ehh, I don't care if I bang her soon because I actually like her". There's a balance to all of this, but by definition she shouldn't be allowing you to do that anyway if she is quality ... I guess that's why so many let you, lol --- they just don't have much to offer. Sorry for more black pill.

If the man expects virtue from a girl, he has to show it himself. If you focus on pleasure seeking and instant gratification, you're going to meet these "qualities" in a girl as well.

You can't tell if someone is worthy being a wife without spending an extended amount of time with her while cutting out fornication. And once you figured that out, the next medium-term goal should be signing the papers to knock her up.

It's important that this kind of courtship needs not to be confused with orbiting: If a girl isn't into you at all, she obviously isn't going to be your wife. And if you catch one-itis, you can't properly assess her anyway. So it's about denying yourself when she wants and does allow it, not the other way around.
 
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