OnlyFans / Online camgirls

kel

Kingfisher
I don't think so, at least not if you "maintain frame" to use old terminology. If you're a high status person, especially, people look to you to set norms. Sure, you'll get blowback, but it needs to be done.
 
I don't think there is much men can do to stop this at this point, because men are fueling it. Eventually pornography will hurt and disabuse and isolate so many women they will fight against it.
How about men stop fapping? That's a good place to start. I like the idea of discouraging it as publicly as possible to the ones who do. Not necessarily singling anyone out but just getting them to see it as shameful. If we respected ourselves enough to not expect women to save us maybe we could start to reclaim our own power that we fap away.
 
Start by mocking everyone involved - men and women. Shun them from your life and social circles. Ridicule is a powerful weapon.
I'm pretty sure this will just result in you being being shunned. Overton window has shifted leftwards, today's conservatives would be liberals 15 years ago, people who are counter trash-culture are a tiny minority. With that said, one should definitely avoid people like that.
These windows don't shift on their own. I like the idea.
 

!!!???!!!

Sparrow
How about men stop fapping? That's a good place to start. I like the idea of discouraging it as publicly as possible to the ones who do. Not necessarily singling anyone out but just getting them to see it as shameful. If we respected ourselves enough to not expect women to save us maybe we could start to reclaim our own power that we fap away.
Its not about putting faith in women, in the same way that a men never red pilled me, it was a woman (by her actions). Women will only stop destroying themselves not when men tell them to stop, but when the costs become too high. It will be a self realization (though many will not have it)
 

Dr. Black Pill

Sparrow
Suspended
From the POV of a Gen X expat whose professional life-unexceptional as it was-was spent overseas, it seems as if the US is becoming more of a third world country. Period.

I mean its like the Philippines where girls from all walks of life trade their bodies for cash.

So let me ask these questions.

...In the last 20 years, what happened that more young women have been sucked into sexual transactions? What changed economically?

...Why did this change seem to occur when Bush was elected?

...Why does there seem to be more poverty now than in the nineties? What was different in the nineties before Bush was elected? I'm not saying life was great for everyone in 1995 when I was about 20 but what I am saying was there were not third world levels of desperation we see in the US today.

...Why were Gen X women less inclined to become prostitutes or pornographers than Gen Y or Gen Z?

...In some ways it seems as if America has fallen behind other developed countries like Australia or Japan in living standards. Why?
 

Dr. Black Pill

Sparrow
Suspended
Gen Z men must indeed be thirsty to even consider having sex with this woman, much less paying to see her cam show.

One of the fascinating things about this board is that it is all generations. I'm 46 and I guess some guys on this board are only 19.

I've been overseas as an expat since 1999 when I was 25 and moving from airport to airport and Dubai to India to Philippines to Thailand you lose track of trends. Also, it is not hard to get laid there.

So then I see what it is like for the average college guy now.

This is how thirsty they are? That they'd pay money to see this girl naked? Twenty five years ago in order to get a man to screw her she'd have had to hit the midnight hour at the frat house party.
 

Max Roscoe

Sparrow
Indeed, in many ways America is becoming a third world country. I thought America's decline would be more like Britain's (ignoring the recent immigration which is very new there)--a quiet slide into a happy stable place that is no longer internationally relevant. But now I think that's wishful thinking.

What gets lost in the poverty numbers are stats like this: 60% of Americans do not have $1,000 to cover emergencies. Hell, most black families do not have $1,000 in net worth. Meaning they could sell every single thing they own and wouldn't have $1,000 to show for it. 60% of my countrymen are living and working in the "richest country in the world" and cannot afford 2 weeks of expenses. Third world people I've met all over the world are considered "poor" but they have enough money to pay their housing and food costs for a month if need be. Most all of them own their houses or shacks, as mortgages aren't really used. In that respect, they are wealthier than 60% of Americans. Yeah, America looks wealthy on paper, but that's the fallacy of looking at an exchange rate without comparing wages to expenses.

And that's America's poor. I hear sob stories from single friends living in high cost of living cities making over $100k and they can barely scrape by. Yeah, a big mac is cheap here but actually affording basic needs turns out to be very expensive, and you better hope you don't need health care. Actually a real organic beef burger in most third world countries raised without GMO on a non-corn syrup bun, probably costs less than a Big Mac here.
 

Dr. Black Pill

Sparrow
Suspended
Why would a man who expects regular sex from his partner-and gets regular sex-want to see cam whores?

Why are Gen Y men (More than boomers or Gen X) so utterly enthralled with voyeurism and porn? Why are they so unable to stop even when it affects their relationships, costs them money
Indeed, in many ways America is becoming a third world country. I thought America's decline would be more like Britain's (ignoring the recent immigration which is very new there)--a quiet slide into a happy stable place that is no longer internationally relevant. But now I think that's wishful thinking.

America's immigration problem started when Britain and Spain started fighting over Florida. Its nothing new.


What gets lost in the poverty numbers are stats like this: 60% of Americans do not have $1,000 to cover emergencies.

Compared to the eighties or nineties, that is amazing. I remember when 30 year old men could pay for a mortgage in cash.

The US up to about the year 2000 was synonymous with a huge middle class. When I was young, you saw maybe one homeless person a year. I grew up in a Detroit suburb that is now abandoned. Something about US capitalism does not work. What it is, I don't know.

Now its like India. You have kids who were born in homeless camps and raised on streets like India, where limousines drive through people scavenging through feces on the street.


Hell, most black families do not have $1,000 in net worth.

Alot of that is having a kid at age 18. Or more than one. In this late techno-industrial stage, you're basically screwed. And if you have 4 kids with different women, you're screwed. You'll be in total poverty, as will your kids. Blacks are kind of out of step with stagnated wages and costs of living.


Meaning they could sell every single thing they own and wouldn't have $1,000 to show for it.

High-time preference, really. Also vices. Say you smoke an ounce of reefer a week. Also, they tend to be spendthrifts. You cannot sell a pair of used 400 dollar shoes.


60% of my countrymen are living and working in the "richest country in the world" and cannot afford 2 weeks of expenses. Third world people I've met all over the world are considered "poor" but they have enough money to pay their housing and food costs for a month if need be.

I live in SEA and my wife owns her house and property. Of course I paid for a renovation. My house would cost 500 K in the US and only cost 30 K here.

Most all of them own their houses or shacks, as mortgages aren't really used.

True. I've lived in India and even poor people have more space there than your average Jew businessman in Brooklyn who pays 4 K a month stacked like cord wood in a tiny apartment.

In that respect, they are wealthier than 60% of Americans. Yeah, America looks wealthy on paper, but that's the fallacy of looking at an exchange rate without comparing wages to expenses.

And that's America's poor.

As a Michigan by birth, you could drive from my typical suburb (My Dad made 50 K a year as a scientist and our house was 200 K in the eighties) which was mostly Irish-German and some Jews and as nice as Switzerland to what looked Haiti in 20 minutes. A Michigan trailer park is as bad as India.


I hear sob stories from single friends living in high cost of living cities making over $100k and they can barely scrape by. Yeah, a big mac is cheap here

Possibly the US government/oligarchy says "don't mess with the food supply or they might become Kulaks and revolt"

but actually affording basic needs turns out to be very expensive, and you better hope you don't need health care. Actually a real organic beef burger in most third world countries raised without GMO on a non-corn syrup bun, probably costs less than a Big Mac here.
 
No toys or tricks at all--except the trap (trick) that is camgirling in the first place.
Pays for her education--AND more. Somehow I doubt she'll consider school to be worth the money before she's hit the wall. That's the trap these girls often fall into.

What I meant before was waiting for women to self realize the problem isn't a solution. It's us giving up.
When we create alternatives for ourselves which may or may not benefit women as a side effect--this will help them self realize the cost is too high.
I'll even put forward the rise in Christianity is a solution with this side effect. The lifestyle doesn't endorse it and the less thirsty customers they have with the increase in competition every day as new girls join--it just won't be worth the money, and more and more degradation will be involved as the demand is so low all they get are these guys who obsess about them enough to get desperate like the guy in the link above.
 

Aboulia

Sparrow
How about men stop fapping? That's a good place to start. I like the idea of discouraging it as publicly as possible to the ones who do. Not necessarily singling anyone out but just getting them to see it as shameful. If we respected ourselves enough to not expect women to save us maybe we could start to reclaim our own power that we fap away.
This is a better suggestion to this problem. All social problems need to be cut at the root. While shaming/shunning cam girl/betas might slow the problem, people will just hide their behaviours. Re-wiring the way you look at the world is the best path. When I talk to people, I aim to show them that masturbation/homosexuality is essentially animalistic behaviour, and that only animals are ruled by lower urges, men are to be above this (EMJ was the first one to vividly impress this upon me in his book Libido Dominandi). Only when men change this frame of mind, will this sort of behaviour dry up.
 

sanbruno

Sparrow
Its not about putting faith in women, in the same way that a men never red pilled me, it was a woman (by her actions). Women will only stop destroying themselves not when men tell them to stop, but when the costs become too high. It will be a self realization (though many will not have it)
The costs already exist, in that thotting offers them more exposure to short term flings with elite men and respurce extraction from betas, but at the same time, taints their appeal for long term relationships with said elite men. Sub 9 women almost always make the mistake of offering up sexual depravity to alpha males in the mistaken assumption it will create and accelerate a bond. I watched this over and over with an alpha roommate of mine in my 20s. He’d pretty much ignore them, much less actually “date” them, and soon enough they’d be knocking on the door to ride his cock at 2am and out the door by 2:30, probably never to be seen again. He was laughing one day as he showed me a cheeay emotional postcard some random lay of his sent him while she was vacationing on student loans. He barely knew who she was. As long as women think any sort of behavior will ingratiate them with elite men, they WILL contine to do it.
 

questor70

Ostrich
From a career perspective, any incel's funding is just too good of an offer to pass up (akin to any girl offering no strings attached sex to guys).
Not the whole story. If there was strong social stigma that would provide its own disincentive as it did in the past. The determining factor is the erosion of social mores or codes of conduct. That's really what clown world is all about. If a society loses its moral compass it's pretty much impossible to get it back because how things are becomes the new-normal. If you grow up in an everything-goes society then that's the only world you've ever known and hence it will seem "normal". That's really the problem with human nature. We're too adaptable. So cultures go down slippery slopes and frogs boil in the pot.

The other aspect of human nature is there's a LONG lag effect between people following a certain lifestyle and realizing whether it brought them the fulfillment they thought it would. This was the origin of blue pill/red pill in the first place, the idea that we almost always start out with the wrong programming and don't reprogram until AFTER we burn our hands in the fire. This happens collectively as well. So these cultural cycles tend to be generational. This relegates anyone who can kind of see where this is headed to the role of Cassandras who will be ignored.
 
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Dr. Black Pill

Sparrow
Suspended
I grew up near a college and as a kid in the eighties, I saw this a great deal with the hippies. You'd see burnt-out looking 40 year old people in tie-dyed t-shirts who looked like Charles Manson. My parents were Boomers born in 1947 who would sneer at them. They had a nickname for them "BOOH" or burnt-out-old-hippies.

I also saw it with strippers. You'd meet 30 year old women who'd started nude dancing at age 18 and made great money and then one day they are 30. They have no skills to fall back on. Plus, they were in a job description most people sneer at. I knew a few strippers who were smart and saved enough money to get degrees but most of them blew it all on drugs. Your 30 years old and your productive years were spent backstage doing cocaine. One day the lights come on.

I've always felt it was this way with sexual liberation in the late sixties. The wealth and upper class could get the abortion or were on the pill, but the working class girl who became sexually liberated ended up pregnant by an unknown father at a love-in.

All trends that are started by the upper middle class seem to affect the middle class and lower class worst. Abbie Hoffman cut his hair, became a conservative and worked on Wall Street. But the 20 year old son of an accountant got in LSD in college, fried his brain, ended up a penniless hippie.
 

kel

Kingfisher
There is ultimately no (huge) feedback loop, though. These women will be cared for for their entire lives, by you and me and everyone else on this forum, against our wills.

Sure, they'll be bitter and miserable, but there's not really enough of a meaningful, visible feedback loop to discourage young women from making that choice, especially when it's being openly promoted elsewhere.
 
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