OnlyFans / Online camgirls

Jaszczurka

Sparrow
"At what point does a young woman join The Hive Mind and start thinking she needs to be taken seriously in the workplace and not be seen as just sex objects? Do they have a collective brain on this?"

What I'm saying is that if enough girls are selling themselves online, this will affect all women. In other words, the image of women per se will change. The actions of the few will affect the many.

The girl who just wants to be a paralegal or scientist will be affected in some way because scads of camgirls very gradually altered the image of women from "people we date" to "people who will do any pervy thing for a price."

As I've said before, this was UNTHINKABLE even in the 1990s. If you asked even the most liberated girl to strip for money, you'd probably get slapped -- and ostracized for being a "perv." Now it's extremely commonplace everywhere, from cam girls to movies to pop music stars.

To use a circus analogy: Prostitution and nude modeling were always seen as a sideshow in our culture. That sideshow is becoming the main attraction. What we consider normal is changing. "Prostitution" used to mean abnormal. When it comes to mean "normal," the smart alec phrase "all women prostitutes" will become an inescapable and unfortunate definition for all women in some way.
What's interesting about this dynamic is that it begs the question if such women themselves will undermine feminism and being taken seriously in the workplace rather than as just sex objects.

Back in the 1980's, it was common for career women to tell me that they led double lives: They wanted workplace equality but at home, they wanted "traditionalism" (or men who were breadwinners.) They kept their workplace life and personal life separate. Simps back then white knighted their rationalizations "They aren't virtual prostitutes if they insist that men pay for them."

A few things about this trend that will be interesting:

1) Unlike feminism up to this point, which was to make women ugly and independent from men, now such women would sort of like housewives have to please men. They'd need to actually make deliverables.

2) This isn't affirmative action or welfare. They will be competing in a free market.

3) It will be impossible for them to live this double life. Men EVERYWHERE will know their "secret" life.
 
The reason why many of the women don't care about men finding out in the future is because they know that men are becoming simps. How many on this forum are older I'm assuming over 30 or 40 years old. For Christians and others with a moral compass that is not tied to social trends only fans is evil. Yet from what I've seen the ones who still adhere to these traditional values are older and on their way out. The younger generation has a relative view of morality so for them they will follow society no matter what society says. We are assuming there will be more people like us in the future. The reality is there will be less, thus women are doubling down on debauchery.
 
Americans are sadly trapped in their liberty ethos on this matter as are most Western nations albeit to a lesser degree.

God>Church>Man>Woman>Child

A woman may legally instruct/punish her child. Nobody doubts this for a second. But what happens if you suggest that a man should have the same legal power over his wife that a mother has over her children?

Well even 95% of "conservatives" would flip out and basically disown you.

One of the less pleasant aspects of this journey is discovering that even the supposedly great aspects of Western society as we know it are actually garbage. For the vast majority of our time as civilized men, women were not arrested, charged and prosecuted for their foolishness. It was understood that their husband would "discipline" them, to the extent that things like rule of thumb were established as acceptable guidelines for the practice.

It may be painful to accept, but the moment that legal right was revoked then everything which followed was just a matter of time. Ultimately if a woman can misbehave and a husband has no ultimate form of authority over her then he is not a patriarch, he is just a provider demanding she come to reason, with results similar to what unfolds when mothers are forbidden by law to smack their children and must resort to negotiating as an equal with a five year old throwing a tantrum.
On the plus side, women can now be arrested, charged, and prosecuted for whatever crimes they commit. Seems fairer than punishing the husband.
 
The reason why many of the women don't care about men finding out in the future is because they know that men are becoming simps. How many on this forum are older I'm assuming over 30 or 40 years old. For Christians and others with a moral compass that is not tied to social trends only fans is evil. Yet from what I've seen the ones who still adhere to these traditional values are older and on their way out. The younger generation has a relative view of morality so for them they will follow society no matter what society says. We are assuming there will be more people like us in the future. The reality is there will be less, thus women are doubling down on debauchery.
But there are more and more men who are now going mgtow, even if they are not familiar with the term. And even if they have not been divorce raped themselves, they see their father, and their uncles, and their friend's fathers, and others, getting divorce raped, and they just don't want to risk a roughly fifty/fifty chance of being financially ruined, and having their children taken away. I see this unpleasant situation growing, until a large number of young and middle aged women go nuts, in frustration at not finding a beta simp to use via marriage.

I do see the Christian alternative as being to do your best to prayerfully vette the woman, and move forward with a combination of faith in Christ and game/red pill awareness. But it is still very risky...

I have a Mormon alpha male friend, who had so so many women throwing themselves at him at BYU (not for sex, but to marry), but despite that, he managed to find a woman who succeeded in making his life a living hell, after they married. She always treated him like nothing special, while being both highly intelligent and gorgeous, and constantly making demands. He was attracted to her like a moth to a flame. My friend found the divorce to barely be a relief, because she relentlessly pursued him for extra money, beyond the court ordered child support and alimony, which he always pays. When she eventually remarried, and as that marriage fell apart, her then husband told her that since she was so totally obsessed with her first husband, my alpha friend, that she should have never bothered to marry him, the mr. number two guy. He was a beta.
 
Last edited:
Mgtow is a great theory. Yet if men don't change women, who will. I can't see the govt doing it so, were back at square one.
You change the women by withdrawing a fairly large group of quality men from them for a time, and quite a few of them will change. I wish I could say this will come from a place of love and self-discipline for men, but it will instead largely come from a place of anger and fear. The anger and fear involved in not wanting to be divorce raped/divorce raped again.
 
The reason why many of the women don't care about men finding out in the future is because they know that men are becoming simps. How many on this forum are older I'm assuming over 30 or 40 years old. For Christians and others with a moral compass that is not tied to social trends only fans is evil. Yet from what I've seen the ones who still adhere to these traditional values are older and on their way out. The younger generation has a relative view of morality so for them they will follow society no matter what society says. We are assuming there will be more people like us in the future. The reality is there will be less, thus women are doubling down on debauchery.
wait a second! Are you saying because I’m early middle aged I’m like a beautiful male-elf on my way to the undying lands - leaving this sexy only fans saturated war-torn middle earth to its fate??
 

Jaszczurka

Sparrow
You change the women by withdrawing a fairly large group of quality men from them for a time, and quite a few of them will change. I wish I could say this will come from a place of love and self-discipline for men, but it will instead largely come from a place of anger and fear. The anger and fear involved in not wanting to be divorce raped/divorce raped again.
I don't think withdrawal itself had much effect but one thing did: competition.

My aunt responded very negatively towards my foreign wife. She said I'm being used for a greencard (this is after 16 years of my marriage.) She's what I would refer to as a "traditional feminist" woman (regards men as protectors and providers for women regardless of how women behave.)

I'm not alpha male material so the feminist narrative typically went they preferred if I didn't hit on them or at least didn't notice if I was single. But if I walk around in public with a pretty girl on my arm from a foreign country, the claws come out. When marriage to foreign women became increasingly popular, the feminists got IMBRA passed in an attempt to "protect" foreign women from American men. Kind of funny in that they don't appear interested in protecting foreign women and children working in overseas sweatshops to make their clothing.

An alpha male friend of mine met my wife and quipped: "The NEXT time I get married, I'm going to have to do what you did!" He remains married (his pretty wife comes from a rich family and she doesn't give him any trouble) and he had zero game in meeting hot, attentive American women. Hot American women approached him (and continue to do so) and engage in zero shit tests and flaking. Nonetheless, my wife's single middle-aged foreign women friends who are of average appearance were all able to find wealthy, decent looking American men via online dating.

It's my theory that chads refusing to marry doesn't generate much self-reflection in American women because they conclude, perhaps correctly, that such men remain perpetual bachelors because they can play the field rather than the liabilities modern marriage present. My chad friend married a woman from a wealthy family so marriage presented little risk to him. It's sort of funny that for such men, the old saying applies: It's just as easy to fall in love with a rich, pretty woman as it is a poor one.
 

Jaszczurka

Sparrow
Mgtow is a great theory. Yet if men don't change women, who will. I can't see the govt doing it so, were back at square one.
The dynamics of this appear to be that women are extremely slow to change and respond to cultural trends that impact their ability to marry and form families because older, single women incels rarely come out and tell younger women that they made a mistake and to reject feminism. They're more likely to blame men "ALL men are jerks!" or pretend like they're happy with the way things turned out. (Women don't like admitting to their friends that they're losers.) Society and government does its best to protect such women from the consequences of their choices via welfare and affirmative action.

I think one thing that men can do, which does have an impact, is for attractive men to reject women, particularly attractive women, who express feminist political beliefs. I believe this has been happening already in that the chads I know who get approached regularly can do what women do when approached by dozens of men: find the smallest pretext to reject them. But even chad men I know largely are kind hearted and will try to find an excuse to let the women down gently.
 

questor70

Ostrich
attractive men to reject women
Here's the thing. Humans are opportunistic and take the path of least resistance.

Chads enjoying the 80/20 rule shifting to the 95/5 rule are the least likely to deny women for the sake of bringing balance back to gender dynamics. They will deny commitment as they always do, and women will continue not to care as today's women discount the future.

So the net effect is that there's a very fine line between what constitutes a MGTOW and an Incel. The men shying away are men who were already invisible to women riding the Tinder carousel, with some rare exceptions (like Henry Cavill saying he's terrified of #MeToo, although I suspect he's still getting laid).

The system will not balance out anytime soon, certainly not in a timeframe that would matter to our individual lives.

The sexual marketplace is what it is. The only thing we can do is figure out how to deal with it because we can't really change it.
 
Here's the thing. Humans are opportunistic and take the path of least resistance.

Chads enjoying the 80/20 rule shifting to the 95/5 rule are the least likely to deny women for the sake of bringing balance back to gender dynamics. They will deny commitment as they always do, and women will continue not to care as today's women discount the future.

So the net effect is that there's a very fine line between what constitutes a MGTOW and an Incel. The men shying away are men who were already invisible to women riding the Tinder carousel, with some rare exceptions (like Henry Cavill saying he's terrified of #MeToo, although I suspect he's still getting laid).

The system will not balance out anytime soon, certainly not in a timeframe that would matter to our individual lives.

The sexual marketplace is what it is. The only thing we can do is figure out how to deal with it because we can't really change it.
I disagree. While Chads won't change, the post cock carousel riding women, in their thirties and forties, who want to marry a beta male for resource mining, will definitely be angry and frustrated, when they find that many men are not available for exploitation, due to pervading mgtow attitudes, that are in place in the hearts of many millions of American betas, due to the pervading fear of divorce rape!

We are seeing this *already* due to the all-time low marriage rate! And this will only get worse, as more and more men, over the next twenty years, give up on the idea of getting married, due to all the male friends and family, they see getting divorce raped. And this of course ties in with the birth rate, which is plunging. Men don't want to be divorce raped, and they don't want to pay child support. And the end result in plunging marriage rates, and birth rates. Thanks feminists! Thanks male accomplices!

At a certain point, and quite possibly within our lifetimes, both men and women in America will realize the present laws and divorce/family courts must greatly change, to bring men back to the marriage and childbearing table, or else our society will steadily die on the vine, as it becomes like Japan or South Korea.

The only other option is to allow in huge numbers of foreign immigrants, from Latin America and elsewhere, to boost our hemorrhaging population numbers. Europe has of course done this, creating a variety of problems, but I was hoping that we would not follow suit to try to save ourselves.


Things will get worse, before they get better.
 
At a certain point, and quite possibly within our lifetimes, both men and women in America will realize the present laws and divorce/family courts must greatly change, to bring men back to the marriage and childbearing table, or else our society will steadily die on the vine, as it becomes like Japan or South Korea.
I don't think the American birth rate will ever fall as low as Japan's or South Korea's. Those countries have among the highest population densities in the world which pushes up property prices and results in small apartments for families. U.S. has plenty of land resulting in a big rural population who can easily pop out a few kids and live off the land while their urban counterparts are enjoying the city night life.
 
I disagree. While Chads won't change, the post cock carousel riding women, in their thirties and forties, who want to marry a beta male for resource mining, will definitely be angry and frustrated, when they find that many men are not available for exploitation, due to pervading mgtow attitudes, that are in place in the hearts of many millions of American betas, due to the pervading fear of divorce rape!

We are seeing this *already* due to the all-time low marriage rate! And this will only get worse, as more and more men, over the next twenty years, give up on the idea of getting married, due to all the male friends and family, they see getting divorce raped. And this of course ties in with the birth rate, which is plunging. Men don't want to be divorce raped, and they don't want to pay child support. And the end result in plunging marriage rates, and birth rates. Thanks feminists! Thanks male accomplices!

At a certain point, and quite possibly within our lifetimes, both men and women in America will realize the present laws and divorce/family courts must greatly change, to bring men back to the marriage and childbearing table, or else our society will steadily die on the vine, as it becomes like Japan or South Korea.

The only other option is to allow in huge numbers of foreign immigrants, from Latin America and elsewhere, to boost our hemorrhaging population numbers. Europe has of course done this, creating a variety of problems, but I was hoping that we would not follow suit to try to save ourselves.


Things will get worse, before they get better.
Not so sure those post-carousel women WON’T find husbands (if they deflate their egos and lower their standards a little). Many men are going MGTOW, but that still leaves plenty who decide after 30 or 40 (or even 50) that they would like to marry—for reproduction, companionship, and/or guilt-free sex. (We hear such concepts often on the forum lately.) Can each of us marry a 20-year-old trad virgin whenever we’re “ready” to settle down? That type is in short supply; and most of those who even exist would rather marry the trad 22-year-old “boy next door”—who is also willing to marry young, as trad types have always done. (Cultures that try to make it the standard practice for young girls to marry much-older men—not naming any particular cults or “religions” here—wind up creating many frustrated, disgruntled young unmarried men and to some extent, romantically-frustrated young married women.)
How about a 25-year-old...near-virgin? Maybe—if you’re rich AND charismatic AND successful in a “cool” field AND have that “well-preserved rock star” look going on. (A young woman who marries for money only, without genuine physical attraction, won’t likely be a loving wife forever. And it’s the rare midlife man who can inspire genuine, non-monetary attraction in a much-younger woman. No matter how much we would like to think otherwise—and no matter how convincingly certain females try to convince us otherwise.)
Then who’s left for all the near-midlife, economically-midlist men who suddenly get the male version of baby rabies or the marriage bug? Especially those of us who are “damaged goods” in the moral, spiritual, and/or pair bonding departments? (Mea culpa.)
Well, not a 42-year-old woman; not for the man who is dead set on having kids and making them “the fun way”. But many men will settle for a slightly post-“epiphany phase” woman who has learned some humility, who can finally feel genuine attraction to a somewhat older man, who still likely has two or three potential kids to offer, and is still somewhat easy on the eyes. (And then there’s the man past 50 or 55 who just wants a wife, and isn’t eager to have [a second set of] kids.)
Yes, some “experienced” men will (hypocritically) hold out for a woman who is as pure as the driven snow; but others understand that genuine repentance and reform are possible for others as well as for themselves.
TL;DR (too late): Tempting as schadenfreude may be, most of the current crop of carousel riders will lock down somebody or other, if they’re not too picky and make half an effort.
 

Jaszczurka

Sparrow
Not so sure those post-carousel women WON’T find husbands (if they deflate their egos and lower their standards a little). Many men are going MGTOW, but that still leaves plenty who decide after 30 or 40 (or even 50) that they would like to marry—for reproduction, companionship, and/or guilt-free sex. (We hear such concepts often on the forum lately.) Can each of us marry a 20-year-old trad virgin whenever we’re “ready” to settle down? That type is in short supply; and most of those who even exist would rather marry the trad 22-year-old “boy next door”—who is also willing to marry young, as trad types have always done. (Cultures that try to make it the standard practice for young girls to marry much-older men—not naming any particular cults or “religions” here—wind up creating many frustrated, disgruntled young unmarried men and to some extent, romantically-frustrated young married women.)
How about a 25-year-old...near-virgin? Maybe—if you’re rich AND charismatic AND successful in a “cool” field AND have that “well-preserved rock star” look going on. (A young woman who marries for money only, without genuine physical attraction, won’t likely be a loving wife forever. And it’s the rare midlife man who can inspire genuine, non-monetary attraction in a much-younger woman. No matter how much we would like to think otherwise—and no matter how convincingly certain females try to convince us otherwise.)
Then who’s left for all the near-midlife, economically-midlist men who suddenly get the male version of baby rabies or the marriage bug? Especially those of us who are “damaged goods” in the moral, spiritual, and/or pair bonding departments? (Mea culpa.)
Well, not a 42-year-old woman; not for the man who is dead set on having kids and making them “the fun way”. But many men will settle for a slightly post-“epiphany phase” woman who has learned some humility, who can finally feel genuine attraction to a somewhat older man, who still likely has two or three potential kids to offer, and is still somewhat easy on the eyes. (And then there’s the man past 50 or 55 who just wants a wife, and isn’t eager to have [a second set of] kids.)
Yes, some “experienced” men will (hypocritically) hold out for a woman who is as pure as the driven snow; but others understand that genuine repentance and reform are possible for others as well as for themselves.
TL;DR (too late): Tempting as schadenfreude may be, most of the current crop of carousel riders will lock down somebody or other, if they’re not too picky and make half an effort.
Pretty good analysis. I disagree that it's rare for a young woman who marries for "money only" (or security) without genuine physical attraction to be a loving wife forever. (At least until death do they part :) The opposite appears to be the case for me in that women I know who married hot guys but didn't worry about the finances later got divorced because she didn't want to be the breadwinner or he wasn't financially performing. It's probably the number 1 reason why divorced young mothers are on the dating market.

Raw, physical attraction appears to be most crucial at the early stages of a relationship where the men is attracted to a woman to approach and for a woman to accept his approach (or if he's chad/has alpha game, she'll approach him.)

I agree that reformed alpha widows can lock down someone with a mere half effort. Heck, here's a fantastic example. (note comments are closed for OBVIOUS reasons :)

My wife's foreign woman friends who are divorced/widowed were easily able to find wealthy men to marry them by using online dating. But American women told me that they got a mailbox full of spam, didn't want to sort through it, or they went on a date with a few chads that stood them up, and then they gave up. These are the same women who would be HAPPY to go through spreadsheets of TPS reports for days at a time but they couldn't spare more than a few hours to sort through hundreds of men interested in them?

So even asking for, quote, "half an effort" is too much for many of them who have a their formative years spent developing entitlement attitudes that dwarf tales of ancient Roman senator lifestyles.
 

Jaszczurka

Sparrow
Here's the thing. Humans are opportunistic and take the path of least resistance.

Chads enjoying the 80/20 rule shifting to the 95/5 rule are the least likely to deny women for the sake of bringing balance back to gender dynamics. They will deny commitment as they always do, and women will continue not to care as today's women discount the future.

So the net effect is that there's a very fine line between what constitutes a MGTOW and an Incel. The men shying away are men who were already invisible to women riding the Tinder carousel, with some rare exceptions (like Henry Cavill saying he's terrified of #MeToo, although I suspect he's still getting laid).

The system will not balance out anytime soon, certainly not in a timeframe that would matter to our individual lives.

The sexual marketplace is what it is. The only thing we can do is figure out how to deal with it because we can't really change it.
Funny story about a chad friend of mine: Really likable guy. When he was single, he went on annual ski runs a few states up with his buds for male bonding. On one trip, one of the local gals picked him up and he spent some of the week with her. After the week was over, he packed up with the guys and went back south.

And that was that.

Next year, he goes back and heads to the bar and sees everyone wearing buttons with "FUB" on them. He asks what they mean and one of the locals tells him: "There's this jerk named Bob (not his real name) who used a pretty girl here and misled her and then cruelly dumped her. He's coming back into town! So F*ck You Bob!"

Now this Chad has magical powers over both men and women so the first thing he did was ask for a button himself, wore it proudly, and made friends with everyone in the bar. They all loved him. It's like he's Ferris Bueller or something.

So the gal wandered into the bar, and sees him drinking with everyone, and they say: "Hey Shiela! Here's Bob!"

He says he STILL goes back there, year after year, and if she sees him she turns around to face the wall ignoring him until he walks by and leaves.

He's like an X-man.

Anyhoo, one wonders that if 15% out of the 20% of now Chads no longer have these magical powers, but nonetheless can still get laid relatively easy, they may start to realize they're mortal like the rest of us.
 

kel

Pelican
There will always be a simp out there ready to clean up the mess, the question is only how low the woman is willing to sink in her acceptance of a simp. And since she doesn't really need to accept him for very long, I'm guessing they're willing to go very low (temporarily). Find some utter sad sack they can use to tell themselves they haven't lost it, complain about him to their friends, eventually get sick of it and find an even sadder sack. The cock carousel will become the cope carousel, that's all. Barring a proper crisis in society (not at all out of the question given recent events) the 20 and 30 something women of today will never really have to face the consequences of their decisions. Our society is set up to shield them from any kind of accountability, it seems as if it's almost society's main obsession sometimes.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
On the contrary 20 and 30 something women are on a heading to meet the consequences of their decisions at about the worst possible time for them. It's the previous generations of thots who have gotten off relatively scot free because society has been ticking along rather neatly for the last 70 years. But the current thots are going to have to navigate cat lady status or hook themselves up to an omega male (fwiw) during an extremely ugly period of history where times will be much harder than before.

Try to imagine being a single woman in Minneapolis right now and you'll understand why so many of them are desperate to virtue signal. The alternative is to be a lone female, no tribe, and face that war party on your own merits. But even siding with those monsters and freaks will not keep them safe for long.

These thots are already typically drowning in debt due to their shitty spending habits and now that half of the job market has been gutted prior to a severe social dislocation at best, they are going to find themselves in the most miserable position imaginable.

You also have to understand that women are not driven by the same things as men, so when you see them able to regularly hook up or when they settle for an omega male you think that they're "getting away with it". You don't understand that for a woman this is a sort of hell, no matter what nonsense they post on facebook about how happy they are.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
This whore was doing full blown pornography but at least she had the sense to get out while she still had the tattered remains of a soul left to her.



Assuming the source is legitimate. I'm not going digging on twitter for it. It's good that she's at least willing to warn others not to make the same mistakes she did.
 
Top