Optimism (Happy Relationships) Thread

[MaceTyrell]

The lowkey doom and gloom permeating the “Relationship” forum after the sharp turn from the recent changes is depressing. All I’m seeing is all these conditions to finding a “suitable” relationship partner that just narrow the pool, people trying to get over “ones that got away” (guilty of being in this party, but recent stuff here is contributing to recency bias), or “what should I think of my girlfriend doing X” which the typical response is “oh it’s over, you lost frame.” The chores one is a great example of this, as I’m like “oh fuck, if I decide to do the dishes one time in a relationship, have I lost frame and my relationship is irreparably damaged.”

Not only is capturing a woman’s attention for an extended period of time seem seem like a Herculean task these days, on top of it for it to be feasible long term she has to “come from a conservative household, have two parents, cook, be hyper feminine, no tattoos, etc.”

I may be coming across as a feminist apologist, but there is this part of me that just feels like my best bet is giving people, regardless of background, a chance. Instead of invalidating some minor thing I dislike about her against her not meeting one of the aforementioned “requirements.”

Maybe it will become more robust as more people in happy relationships & marriages migrate here. Cause despite my interest in building notch count being what brought & kept me at RVF, I’m definitely aware of how more fulfilling I have found my LTRs, even the ones that didn’t end “well. So I’m invested in this turn the forum is taking and hope it’ll help me eventually find & maintain a long term relationship/marriage I’m fulfilled by.

One positive lesson I’ve had these last few months - I retract my statement earlier this year here on being able to get to 100 notches and settle down being mutually exclusive. If I’m fortunate enough to have my...54th notch have these RVF-espoused characteristics, be someone I enjoy spending time with, and someone I am attracted too, who has shown sustained interest in interacting with me (over 1-2 years), I’d have more to lose by not proposing.

 

[wwtl]

The lowkey doom and gloom permeating the “Relationship” forum after the sharp turn from the recent changes is depressing. All I’m seeing is all these conditions to finding a “suitable” relationship partner that just narrow the pool, people trying to get over “ones that got away” (guilty of being in this party, but recent stuff here is contributing to recency bias), or “what should I think of my girlfriend doing X” which the typical response is “oh it’s over, you lost frame.” The chores one is a great example of this, as I’m like “oh fuck, if I decide to do the dishes one time in a relationship, have I lost frame and my relationship is irreparably damaged.”

Not only is capturing a woman’s attention for an extended period of time seem seem like a Herculean task these days, on top of it for it to be feasible long term she has to “come from a conservative household, have two parents, cook, be hyper feminine, no tattoos, etc.”

The older threads about "wife hunting" are mostly concerned with finding the perfect ready-made meal for the player to digest. Like a fat slob suddenly decides to eat healthy and desperately searches the shelves for the perfect 'health food' for his microwave.

Obviously the right way is getting involved in the cooking process instead: learning how to properly prepare food from raw ingredients to get where you want.

I may be coming across as a feminist apologist, but there is this part of me that just feels like my best bet is giving people, regardless of background, a chance. Instead of invalidating some minor thing I dislike about her against her not meeting one of the aforementioned “requirements.”

Maybe it will become more robust as more people in happy relationships & marriages migrate here. Cause despite my interest in building notch count being what brought & kept me at RVF, I’m definitely aware of how more fulfilling I have found my LTRs, even the ones that didn’t end “well. So I’m invested in this turn the forum is taking and hope it’ll help me eventually find & maintain a long term relationship/marriage I’m fulfilled by.

People migrating here is most likely not what is going to happen. Instead we might see some people already here naturally progressing from the Red Pill/Black Pill to the God Pill.

One positive lesson I’ve had these last few months - I retract my statement earlier this year here on being able to get to 100 notches and settle down being mutually exclusive. If I’m fortunate enough to have my...54th notch have these RVF-espoused characteristics, be someone I enjoy spending time with, and someone I am attracted too, who has shown sustained interest in interacting with me (over 1-2 years), I’d have more to lose by not proposing.

So stick to what you already know about male leadership, foster the good characteristics in her and more importantly in yourself to build a strong frame for a traditional family. Don't forget about the 3 years limit for a non-fruitful LTR. Consider to stop fornication until marriage to make engagement the real trial period it's supposed to be and see her for who she really is without lust getting in the way.

Follow the book and it will work out well.

 

[Sensei Creation]

It will be interesting to see if this thread goes in the direction you were hoping for.

 

[wwtl]

It will be interesting to see if this thread goes in the direction you were hoping for.

It will with God's help. However we will thoroughly explore the definition of "happy relationship", which might be some romantic dream fornicators chase, while a real relationship employs actual work to maintain.

 

[tr1cky]

Who says the purpose of a relationship is happiness?

Nothing external can offer fulfillment. That is one of the purposes of "accepting Jesus" into your life. Internal peace. You stop looking at the outside world for fulfilment and look within.

 

[Augustus_Principe]

Once men stop "chasing" women and instead focus on God, building virtue will follow, which in turn will make the man masculine. When this occurs, an interested woman will be going up to the man(or at the very least, make herself look available) instead of the other way around, the way things are supposed to be. The man will be able to tell in an instant if the woman is right for him, because his mind will no longer be fogged up pleasures of the flesh. Right now, men are fighting pathetically to get the attention of some 6/10, while this average woman with no virtue has her pick of the litter. This must be corrected.

This wont be easy in this modern age, so men must be able and willing to stay single for X amount of time until he finds a virtuous woman. his future depends on it.

 

[wwtl]

Once men stop "chasing" women and instead focus on God, building virtue will follow, which in turn will make the man masculine. When this occurs, an interested woman will be going up to the man(or at the very least, make herself look available) instead of the other way around, the way things are supposed to be. The man will be able to tell in an instant if the woman is right for him, because his mind will no longer be fogged up pleasures of the flesh.

The thing I learned while walking this path is that good girls show a strong need to emulate virtue to attract virtuous masculine men.

This wont be easy in this modern age, so men must be able and willing to stay single for X amount of time until he finds a virtuous woman. his future depends on it.

It might not be as hopeless as it seems. Being a virtuous masculine man can turn around women in his vicinity creating choice he might not have had before. As long as he stays virtuous and masculine, a good woman will follow suit.

 

[MaceTyrell]

It will be interesting to see if this thread goes in the direction you were hoping for.

I hope it does. Not looking good right now.

Hoping to hear from people in relationships with women that they find fulfilling and why they find it fulfilling. Or from people on a positive lesson they learned from past experiences with women.

 

[Coja Petrus Uscan]

Or from people on a positive lesson they learned from past experiences with women.

I have been sifting around the world, increasing my knowledge from very little, as to what to look for in women and what to look out for.

The conclusion is - the key thing you should look for is a woman for whom marriage and family will be number one in her life. And you obviously can't take their word for that, but there are so few women who will say that and it's so unfashionable that it's something you can generally take seriously. In particular if it's a younger woman saying these things it's even more of a good sign, as it suggests she comes from a family that have instilled family values in it. If they are 32, then they probably didn't believe those things when they were younger.

The reasoning is that family and children will be with you until death. But more and more women the world over are more concerned with all manner of short to long-term things that won't span their life: travelling, a hobby, fitness, career, studying, books, intellectual pursuits, the Chad carousel etc. A girl who puts these things first doesn't have her priorities straight as to what will give her the best life. For a girl who has the above shorter-term priorities and with maybe no solid ideas on marriage, you have to put time into the relationship and hope she might change her mind and become marriage-minded. But as we see a lot on the forum, women with the above characteristics are prone to have a mind of their own and drag you all over the place with their various ideas, plans, projects, hamstering... Either that or you move on.

Such women are not grounded. Their life is full of short-term, unfixed things that enter and exit their life. The most grounded woman is a woman who follows God. Her ideas are fixed and she's not going to pick up "The Cronicles of Ra" or "The Sexiest Yoga Poses to Post on IG During Your One Year Travel". Modern women are open-ended and prone to float off anywhere and expect you to follow. Traditional women already know the framework of their future.

You can just pick up any woman, and hope she moulds to you and your plans and stays with you; but the more ideas she has beyond family and the less she knows about tradition the harder your work will be. This is maybe the best story to illustrate:

I left the love of my life because I thought I could do better. Now I'm childless and alone at 42

In short she was married to a perfect guy, her soul mate, she thought she would be with him forever, but in her own words,

[I divorced my husband] convinced that somewhere out there, a better, more exciting, more fulfilling life awaited me.
Only there wasn't.

Now I am 42 and have all the trappings of success - a high-flying career, financial security and a home in the heart of London's trendy Notting Hill. But I don't have the one thing I crave more than anything: a loving husband and family.

This is why you look for women for whom family is the most important. It's not bulletproof, but the chances she will end up hamstering off to find loose herself are considerably less.

As for happy relationships. I have a very different view of women than I am told the pedophiles of the SPLC tell me I must have for being a member of this site. The best experience of my life was with a woman. I don't behave as a Chad destroyer, a dark triad manipulator, a pump 'n dumper. I think that is quite important to forming any real relationship. I am just myself.

This girl was implausibly feminine. I never knew such a thing existed and it goes far beyond the type of girls you will find in SEA. She was eleven years younger than me, which is extremely attractive to me. It makes you feel like a man to have such a young girl at your side, even more so when they are impossibly feminine. The best feeling of my life was to be seen as the guide, the lead, the security; while she was my haven from the harshness of the world. It really brings out the best in you to have this dynamic. Some ratty career hamster will bring nothing out of you. The entire time I spent with her I was fully engorged, because of the incredible attraction I have not experienced 1/10th since. She would do anything for me and insisted on cooking. She wanted the role of a woman and to be loved and cherished. Within about a week or so we had agreed to marry and would talk about having children. While most modern men can barely get themselves roused with the latest ultra-strength adult movies, this nearly made my attachments fall off.

The real addiction though was the femininity. She was completely untouched by all the bugs that harden Western women into raspy, unhappy, aggressive male imposters. The best I can describe her is as a fluffy cloud of pure softness, bumping into things and going, "Ahhhh", "Oooohhhh", "Tee-hee-hee". It was not advisable to show any affection in public, or even really be seen. So when we got back to my apartment and into the lift she would stick to me like a limpet and hug me, looking up with her, little eyes and smile. Then she would twirl round me, saying things like,

"Aaahhhh. My kinghh. Sooohhh talllhhh. Tooohhh much talllhhh. Aaahhhh. Tee-hee-hee."

Being called a king all the time by such a girl will, again, make your equipment feel like they might fall off.

They would come up with endless soft, little, cute things to do to me, like moving themselves over me taking in deep breaths and saying, "Ahhhh, good small. So much nice". Or doing something similar, pretending to be a vampire, "Ahhhhh. I became a vampire. I became bad. I need to eat you." Which was an expression of their clueless sexual energy.

Then they would want to dance, preferably on the rooftop in the rain at night; or watch something, which would be constantly interrupted by them surfacing with their beady, little eyes - looking for something or making funny comments.

Everything they did was drenched in femininity and girlyness. When they told me they would come to see me they would say something like,

"Ahhhhh. I will come to make a disturbance for you today. You will not be able to work. Oh. No. Tee-hee-hee."

Nothing I can say is adequate to describe it, but this is what women could be like.

So two things:

1) Family first
2) Feminine
Bonus: Not from the West

 

[hervens]

Not only is capturing a woman’s attention for an extended period of time seem seem like a Herculean task these days, on top of it for it to be feasible long term she has to “come from a conservative household, have two parents, cook, be hyper feminine, no tattoos, etc.”

If there's one thing I'd like to add, most modern day girls don't spend hours on end reading various books and articles on gender relationships and various "pills" like most of us do on here. They simply follow the big trends.
The same way society influenced them to pursue their careers and independence, you can also influence and mold them to the way you think relationships ought to be.

For instance, my LTR used to be a very strong liberal, or so she thought, untill recently when I started showing her different videos and interviews of some of my favourite conservative candidates. Now all of the sudden she's no longer sure if she's liberal or conservative.

So, yes definitely if you see major red flags get away quickly, but usually a girl worth keeping will value your point of view and opinion and can be molded up to a certain point. The importance is to show strong leadership, but be caring and patient at the same time.

 

[Beyond Borders]

It will be interesting to see if this thread goes in the direction you were hoping for.

I hope it does. Not looking good right now.

Hoping to hear from people in relationships with women that they find fulfilling and why they find it fulfilling. Or from people on a positive lesson they learned from past experiences with women.

I think there are a few reasons for you not getting that particular response.

1) You made it seem like you're looking for some validation that it's not always a bad idea to build a relationship with a woman who isn't a virgin or close to it, has tattoos, etc. (Your heavy use of quotes almost made it seem like you were mocking those ideas, which doesn't exactly do a great job of pulling your thread away from that conversation to start a new one.

I'm in a great relationship and optimistic about it and would be happy to comment on that...However, she was a virgin when we met, no tattoos, didn't drink, from a conservative household, loves to cook esp for her man, hyper feminine, etc...so didn't seem appropriate to comment and if I did probably would have had to reply to your points in the initial post and pushback a bit to do so.

I do think you're right you don't need all these "requirements" to have a happy relationship, but personally, if I could have a happy relationship with a girl who had all those things or a happy relationship with a girl who didn't, I'd choose the former...

But more to the point, if you want to make a thread focusing on optimistic relationship experiences and outlooks it might help to avoid painting the responses beforehand by implying what you don't want to hear.

2) You didn't actually say what you wanted in your initial post. You just kind of outlined a few feelings you have. I agree with you on the negative bent and the need to offset it, but saying something like this right in the first post goes a long way towards starting the conversation you actually mean to start:

"Hoping to hear from people in relationships with women that they find fulfilling and why they find it fulfilling. Or from people on a positive lesson they learned from past experiences with women."

In fact, you could have made that your entire thread starter and you would have gotten a new, more positive conversation.

Instead the majority of the first post of the thread was focused on decrying the negativity that you wanted to avoid, thus bringing it directly into focus...and then not stating what you're after. It's important to make intentions clear with a forum conversation starter if you want to start a meaningful conversation, otherwise the thread just goes where it goes.

3) I know quite a few guys from the forum and definitely some that are very happy in their relationships and living very good lives. When you're happy with the state of things it's hard to find the motivation to go debate about it and invite people to try and burst your bubble with negativity.

I'd rather grab a mask and hike down the hill to go kick around my favorite snorkeling spot, wake my girl up to joke around and play chess with her while we get a late breakfast cooking, or throw her on the bike and go for a beautiful ride across the island. So I generally stay out of overly-negative conversations and just savor life.

That's not to say that plenty of guys with great lives and great relationships won't still pop in and share their happiness and wisdom, but I do think a lot of men who are just focused on living an interesting and satisfying life have posted less and less frequently over the years as the general mood of online conversations became more cynical and combative.

 

[MaceTyrell]

It will be interesting to see if this thread goes in the direction you were hoping for.

I hope it does. Not looking good right now.

Hoping to hear from people in relationships with women that they find fulfilling and why they find it fulfilling. Or from people on a positive lesson they learned from past experiences with women.

I think there are a few reasons for you not getting that particular response.

1) You made it seem like you're looking for some validation that it's not always a bad idea to build a relationship with a woman who isn't a virgin or close to it, has tattoos, etc. (Your heavy use of quotes almost made it seem like you were mocking those ideas, which doesn't exactly do a great job of pulling your thread away from that conversation to start a new one.

I'm in a great relationship and optimistic about it and would be happy to comment on that...However, she was a virgin when we met, no tattoos, didn't drink, from a conservative household, loves to cook esp for her man, hyper feminine, etc...so didn't seem appropriate to comment and if I did probably would have had to reply to your points in the initial post and pushback a bit to do so.

I do think you're right you don't need all these "requirements" to have a happy relationship, but personally, if I could have a happy relationship with a girl who had all those things or a happy relationship with a girl who didn't, I'd choose the former...

But more to the point, if you want to make a thread focusing on optimistic relationship experiences and outlooks it might help to avoid painting the responses beforehand by implying what you don't want to hear.

2) You didn't actually say what you wanted in your initial post. You just kind of outlined a few feelings you have. I agree with you on the negative bent and the need to offset it, but saying something like this right in the first post goes a long way towards starting the conversation you actually mean to start:

"Hoping to hear from people in relationships with women that they find fulfilling and why they find it fulfilling. Or from people on a positive lesson they learned from past experiences with women."

In fact, you could have made that your entire thread starter and you would have gotten a new, more positive conversation.

Instead the majority of the first post of the thread was focused on decrying the negativity that you wanted to avoid, thus bringing it directly into focus...and then not stating what you're after. It's important to make intentions clear with a forum conversation starter if you want to start a meaningful conversation, otherwise the thread just goes where it goes.

3) I know quite a few guys from the forum and definitely some that are very happy in their relationships and living very good lives. When you're happy with the state of things it's hard to find the motivation to go debate about it and invite people to try and burst your bubble with negativity.

I'd rather grab a mask and hike down the hill to go kick around my favorite snorkeling spot, wake my girl up to joke around and play chess with her while we get a late breakfast cooking, or throw her on the bike and go for a beautiful ride across the island. So I generally stay out of overly-negative conversations and just savor life.

That's not to say that plenty of guys with great lives and great relationships won't still pop in and share their happiness and wisdom, but I do think a lot of men who are just focused on living an interesting and satisfying life have posted less and less frequently over the years as the general mood of online conversations became more cynical and combative.

Fair enough.

I meant no mocking by my use of quotes (some sarcasm on the last point on chores though).

This is a great contribution though. I agree on the satisfied mostly avoiding the internet with stories of their satisfaction.

 

[Bill Stronfer]

You need to think the one way, then your relationship will be perfect. And be optimistic.

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Happy relationship creation as a Red Pilled man is not impossible - we are the most able to do all of that.

I know some happy relationships even if most are at best functional. The best ones are filled with Red Pilled guys with Alpha-mindset - some well-off, some not, just open. One guy married a virgin and they are happy, but he is a religious man who hunted his innocent poor girl in the 3rd world - successfully - descendant of Europeans living in Brazil.

Other relationships are functional with Betas/higher value Blue Pillers and rich men marrying some gold-digging women. Those unions are stable enough as well even if suboptimal.

The most happy union I know is from a super-active self-made millionaire former nerd, who rides a motorcycle, works out, bangs his wife 360 days a year and has children. He essentially worked on his marriage just as he worked on everything else in his life. But his wife never was the focus of his life - his life passions were and the wife just latched onto that. Though it helps that he loved experimenting with tantra sex and she is quite addicted to it - even more than him as a man. But don't take me wrong - she wouldn't be if all he had was sex skills. He is a good father, a man other women would leave their husbands for and he is well-off. But back in his teens he was a scrawny little nerd. And yeah - he read some Red Pill books/blogs and even Game books in order to increase his skills even if he is faithful to his wife.

I also know highly religious men who had multiple kids with their wives and virtually all of them stay - the guys are super-active, praying every day, but usually are also relatively high in value. There are already stats out there saying that with more children, the likelihood of divorce also decreases. Makes sense - a single mother of 5 or even 3 isn't as nimble as the single mother of 1 - at least in k-selected Western societies.

Some other happy relationships are with couples who found each other when older past 40. Hormones and hypergamy then aren't the issue that much anymore, so less chances of fucking that up. That is why funnily enough many divorced couples in countries like Sweden later end up somewhat happily married again - even celebrate Christmas with former spouses. The globohomo agenda only managed to disrupt the stable model up to a degree, but not legions of single mothers and disappearing dads.

Frankly what I witnessed more is with true higher value Alphaish men is that they ended the relationship - either due to being dysfunctional themselves or due to wanting a hotter girl/not having kids yet and thus no motivation to stay. Their relationships were quite happy until they themselves decided to blow it up.

 

[wwtl]

There are already stats out there saying that with more children, the likelihood of divorce also decreases. Makes sense - a single mother of 5 or even 3 isn't as nimble as the single mother of 1 - at least in k-selected Western societies.

I recently saw someone on YT citing a stat that the casual sex dating relationship lasts 2 years and 9 months on average in my country confirming what I wrote here about knocking up a woman within 3 years to get a lasting LTR.

So your stat is essentially telling us: Knock her up forever and she sticks around. Works as designed (by the Creator).

Wow, it's like people wondering why leaving the fridge open (because it's sooo convenient) breaks it shortly after the warranty expires, then rediscovering when you close it, it actually works for decades and additionally cools what is inside.

 

[Jaszczurka]

If there's one thing I'd like to add, most modern day girls don't spend hours on end reading various books and articles on gender relationships and various "pills" like most of us do on here. They simply follow the big trends.
The same way society influenced them to pursue their careers and independence, you can also influence and mold them to the way you think relationships ought to be.

For instance, my LTR used to be a very strong liberal, or so she thought, untill recently when I started showing her different videos and interviews of some of my favourite conservative candidates. Now all of the sudden she's no longer sure if she's liberal or conservative.

So, yes definitely if you see major red flags get away quickly, but usually a girl worth keeping will value your point of view and opinion and can be molded up to a certain point. The importance is to show strong leadership, but be caring and patient at the same time.

I came of age during the 80's, before the internet and before game books were readily available. I went into a bookstore to see what was available. I noticed that the relationship books tended to be geared towards women. I found this remarkable because I regarded women as largely lazy about relationships: waiting to be picked up.

I have a woman acquaintance who wrote relationship books and gave me a copy of hers. I also read The Rules out of interest. My sister had Cosmopolitan lying around. (Back then, reading material was more scarce.)

Generally speaking, women had a lot of "game" books but they're terrible. Well, they did "work" in that it's the usual advice they pick up from their friends/nature: Make men approach them (which gives women overall tremendous leverage), play hard-to-get, use sex as bait, increase their value (as sexual objects) with makeup tips, even workout regimes (did I mention this was the 80's?) and even some tips on flirting.

I'm not sure if the relationships section of the bookstore geared towards women was full of books because of multiple authors or if women were buying them, but the few I browsed through were giving the same advice, more or less. I suppose a lot of the reason for that is that the authors are blue-pilled/feminists who think that relationships with men are secondary to happiness so even books giving women advice on them are half-hearted about it. But the fact that there was a book section advising women on how to meet men suggested to me that, at that time at least, women did seem to be hungry for ways to understand men better.

That's why I think Roosh's "Lady" book is one of his best and it's on my reading list (I have a book club selection for this month I'm catching up on). I have a 4 year old girl so I want materials to help advise her. As great as this forum is, I think women could also benefit from a "red pilled" forum made up of men that want to help them. I think that will be the game changer in the cultural conflict.

 

[questor70]

Advice to women is very much a one-way street unless you want to be accused of mansplaining. Don't pin your hopes on women changing their behavior anytime soon. The dating pool is what it is. All we can do is apply body-english by virtue of the behaviors we reward or abstain from rewarding.

 

[MovingForward2050]

I had an alpha male friend who was sort of a big brother to me growing up, and his advice about having a happy relationship with a woman which lasted, was the following...

1. Attend a church and be part of a religion that expects lots of effort and sacrifice on your part.
2. Have lots of kids, at least five. This makes the woman less appealing to men who might want to mate poach her.
3. Be financially very comfortable. You don't have to be a millionaire, but money should not be tight for the basics and some comfort.
4. Have regular sex and make sure that she almost always orgasms.
5. By at times showing temper, lifting weights, punching a heavy bag, practicing the martial arts at home, and drawing definite boundaries with her, the man has his woman knowing that if she cheats or even just flirts with others, that she is walking on dangerously thin ice. He was not talking about abuse, but instead old school respect.