Doctrine & Theology Orthodox eschatology (end of times)

[Roosh]

I came across an excellent article that teaches the end times from the perspective of the ancient Church. Along with the book Ultimate Things, the Orthodox position is clear.

...some Orthodox elders have strongly advised against even looking at the face of the Antichrist, lest you get seduced by his charm.

[...]

“The Jews will rejoice and give honor to the reign of the antichrist more than anyone else. And he, under pretense of preference, and being industrious with them, will designate for them all a place and the temple.” [St. Ephraim]

[...]

This mark—whatever it proves to be—we Orthodox Christians view as a serious denial of Christ. We must not accept it. Accepting it will be a rejection of one’s Holy Chrismation and a rejection of God.

[...]

The False Prophet will try to coerce all humanity to accept the Antichrist’s “chrismation”—the mark of the Beast—by arranging life so that in the new global government’s one-world economy, no one will be able to buy or sell without that mark. Those who do not take the mark face economic disaster, famine and starvation.

[...]

The difficulties of that final era of tribulation will not be limited to the persecution of Christians, but will come “upon every soul,” as St. Ephraim notes. Indeed, all men—all flesh—will suffer greatly at that time as the very earth, sea and sun will rebel against the Devil and his false “Christ”.

[...]

People will be hungry, even those who took the mark of the beast in order to gain access to food in stores.

The Antichrist: an Orthodox Perspective from the Church Fathers. Fr. Andrew J. Anderson

Today’s sermon is about the Antichrist, as I continue my sermon series on the Orthodox Christian perspective on the awaited Second Coming of our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ. The purpose of this sermon is to provide a Patristic understanding of the Scriptures on this timely and important...

orthochristian.com

 

[Mountaineer]

Great, that's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

Thank you, very important topic, certainly in regard to the full spectrum technological/digital control system that's being set up now.

 

[Hermetic Seal]

Father Josiah Trenham has a good lecture series on Revelation that I'm currently listening to.

 

[The Beast1]

Deep down I think that Zionist evangelical Christians desire to worship the antichrist since they believe in the lie that is a pre-tribulation rapture. The whole nature of evangelical theology like picking bible verses out of context to make whatever point they desire, seems satanic to me in nature.

 

[Ben Boatman]

This Vaxx is clearly the Mark of the Beast. Un-vaxxed are kept from grocery stores in France and New Brunswick, just as from petrol pumps in Slovenia. Throughout even the U.S., many are unable to sell their labor to employers. So there's our inability to buy and sell.

As for 666, look no further than the World Economic Forum logo. Do we need more proof? Does the WEF logo need to be on one vaxx passport/phone app, and for it to be used globally? Must the laws against buying and selling be uniform as well?

We can say this Mark is only a precursor, since we're not yet under one uniform global order. But even China and Russia have Rothschild banks, and Iraq and Libya just got them; a result of U.S. invasion. Did North Korea cut a deal? Did Iran or Syria?

What I'm asking: Is 99% enough, or does the Anti-Christ need to score 100 before Christ comes.

Either way, I say we're very close to the end. My prediction is 2033, and you know why.

 

[The Beast1]

This Vaxx is clearly the Mark of the Beast. Un-vaxxed are kept from grocery stores in France and New Brunswick, just as from petrol pumps in Slovenia. Throughout even the U.S., many are unable to sell their labor to employers. So there's our inability to buy and sell.

As for 666, look no further than the World Economic Forum logo. Do we need more proof? Does the WEF logo need to be on one vaxx passport/phone app, and for it to be used globally? Must the laws against buying and selling be uniform as well?

We can say this Mark is only a precursor, since we're not yet under one uniform global order. But even China and Russia have Rothschild banks, and Iraq and Libya just got them; a result of U.S. invasion. Did North Korea cut a deal? Did Iran or Syria?

What I'm asking: Is 99% enough, or does the Anti-Christ need to score 100 before Christ comes.

Either way, I say we're very close to the end. My prediction is 2033, and you know why.

No you are 100% on the mark (pun intended).

Take a look at my list in the, "I believe we're in the end times" thread.

1. Digital Currency - an unknown founder holding 25% of Bitcoin clearly already a billionaire. Hyperinflation will make this mystery founder the richest man alive.
2. Voluntary mark (vaccine)
3. Certain places around the globe instituting vaccine passes. Denying employment and basic services like grocery shopping. Extreme coercion to get it.
4. Widespread apostasy
5. Hatred of Christians because of vaccine hesitancy.
6. Chinese making chimeras and CRISPR babies.
7. Israel as a nation state exists.

The way these prophecies ultimately get fulfilled sometimes isn't so literal. Greek mythology is replete with stories of people trying to avoid their fates and prophecies, ultimately fulfilling them in the most roundabout ways possible.

A better example, take the Jews and their promised Messiah. God promised the Jews a powerful King. The Jews thought they were getting a (literal) King David who would rule for eternity like in the first temple period. Instead, they got a far more powerful King that rules in a sphere that is forever and unchanging but that King came to them through a poor unknown family with zero political power or wealth. The irony is, that Jesus did in fact come from a lineage of Kings which is why the new testament spends so much time listing out Jesus' genealogy in the first few paragraphs.

It bothers me when people go, "but it isn't the mark because it isn't on the hand or forehead" are clinging to fundamentally flawed direct literal interpretations of the biblical prophecy that need to be held against the original koine.

A good priest is fluent in koine greek, however, most priests clearly have a less than stellar grasp and very rarely observe biblical texts through this lens. Between poor evangelical theology and the satanic pre-tribulation rapture lie, so many will be fooled when the antichrist comes.

Can you like to your 2033 prediction for me? I'd like to read more.

 

[Wutang]

This Vaxx is clearly the Mark of the Beast. Un-vaxxed are kept from grocery stores in France and New Brunswick, just as from petrol pumps in Slovenia. Throughout even the U.S., many are unable to sell their labor to employers. So there's our inability to buy and sell.

As for 666, look no further than the World Economic Forum logo. Do we need more proof? Does the WEF logo need to be on one vaxx passport/phone app, and for it to be used globally? Must the laws against buying and selling be uniform as well?

We can say this Mark is only a precursor, since we're not yet under one uniform global order. But even China and Russia have Rothschild banks, and Iraq and Libya just got them; a result of U.S. invasion. Did North Korea cut a deal? Did Iran or Syria?

What I'm asking: Is 99% enough, or does the Anti-Christ need to score 100 before Christ comes.

Either way, I say we're very close to the end. My prediction is 2033, and you know why.

Revelations and the sermon posted above explicitly says the mark will be on the forehead and the right hand. How does the vax fit into this? The sermon doesn't suggest the mark is symbolic and seems to say explicitly say it's a literal mark.

Also you can still purchase pretty much everything you need online and more people than ever are making money from working at home, whether they have been vaccinated or not.

 

[Roosh]

This Vaxx is clearly the Mark of the Beast. Un-vaxxed are kept from grocery stores in France and New Brunswick, just as from petrol pumps in Slovenia. Throughout even the U.S., many are unable to sell their labor to employers. So there's our inability to buy and sell.

As for 666, look no further than the World Economic Forum logo. Do we need more proof? Does the WEF logo need to be on one vaxx passport/phone app, and for it to be used globally? Must the laws against buying and selling be uniform as well?

We can say this Mark is only a precursor, since we're not yet under one uniform global order. But even China and Russia have Rothschild banks, and Iraq and Libya just got them; a result of U.S. invasion. Did North Korea cut a deal? Did Iran or Syria?

What I'm asking: Is 99% enough, or does the Anti-Christ need to score 100 before Christ comes.

Either way, I say we're very close to the end. My prediction is 2033, and you know why.

Is this your personal interpretation or the interpretation of living Church Elders? If the latter, can you share where they said the vax is the mark?

 

[Ben Boatman]

Is this your personal interpretation or the interpretation of living Church Elders? If the latter, can you share where they said the vax is the mark?

According to 4th century St. Ephraim the Syrian and 17th century St. Nilus the Myrrh-gusher, our access to food is associated with the Mark.

The AntiChrist: An Orthodox Perspective from the Church Fathers by Fr. Andrew J. Anderson

Now in New Brunswick, France, and elsewhere, grocery stores are off-limits to those without the Shot.

Revelations and the sermon posted above explicitly says the mark will be on the forehead and the right hand. How does the vax fit into this? The sermon doesn't suggest the mark is symbolic and seems to say explicitly say it's a literal mark.

Also you can still purchase pretty much everything you need online and more people than ever are making money from working at home, whether they have been vaccinated or not.

Yes, and Biden's OSHA allows some folks to sell their labor, if they'll only take a Shot in the arm, or a Swab in the brain.

Dodging the Mark isn't a deciding factor in its validity; only in whether we're of the group which avoids it.

Can you like to your 2033 prediction for me? I'd like to read more.

It's the bimillennial of the Ascension.

 

[Roosh]

According to 4th century St. Ephraim the Syrian and 17th century St. Nilus the Myrrh-gusher, our access to food is associated with the Mark.

The AntiChrist: An Orthodox Perspective from the Church Fathers by Fr. Andrew J. Anderson

Now in New Brunswick, France, and elsewhere, grocery stores are off-limits to those without the Shot.



Yes, and Biden's OSHA allows some folks to sell their labor, if they'll only take a Shot in the arm, or a Swab in the brain.

Dodging the Mark isn't a deciding factor in its validity; only in whether we're of the group which avoids it.



It's the bimillennial of the Ascension.

In history there have been many types of the Mark, where food was limited or a certain document had to be shown, but the final Mark of the Beast coincides with the rule of the Antichrist. There is no Antichrist, so the vaccine is not the Mark. At best, it's a prelude to the Mark.

 

[Ben Boatman]

In history there have been many types of the Mark, where food was limited or a certain document had to be shown, but the final Mark of the Beast coincides with the rule of the Antichrist. There is no Antichrist, so the vaccine is not the Mark. At best, it's a prelude to the Mark.

I don't believe the antichrist is a single person, but a spirit which tempts all, consumes many, and which torments the world.

And John's epistles have something to say regarding this.

Meanwhile, John's Revelation, which introduces the Mark of the Beast, doesn't even use the phrase "antichrist" once!

So why do people think there's an Antichrist in Revelation, and particularly that it's a single man?

And why do they think the Mark of the Beast is a man's mark, and not the Beast's Mark?

Some say, "Isn't the Beast the Anti-Christ?" But it's called Beast, not man. So "who" is the wrong question to ask.

Instead, ask, "What is the Beast?" This is how we talk about animals, or objects. And how we talk about ideas, or systems.

The Beast is a system, which controls the world and was created by men, who were tempted by evil, and not strong enough to resist it.

They created a beastly system to "serve" themselves, their families and allies. And we ourselves feed it, to live off its crumbs.

But this Beast is a psychopathic spiritual entity, which only feeds sinful desires, which they worship, while it consumes us all.

During the first millennium of Christianity, before the Schism, banking in Europe was non-existent. It began again, shortly thereafter.

Now banking has consumed the world. Is it a coincidence this Schism occurred, one thousand years after Christ's Ascension?

Banking has been behind the wars between "Gog and Magog" since the time of the Crusades.

It fueled wars in Europe, throughout the American, French and Russian revolutions, though both World Wars and the "War on Terror".

We've been using the Mark (like "deutsche marks"), carried in our hands, or as numbers in our neo-cortex (forehead), or stored within computers (like a cyber-neo-cortex).

The World Bank, The World Economic Forum (666), the need for a Rothschild bank in every country on earth, finally the hermit nation of North Korea and the Muslim nations giving in.

Look at this timing. It's not a coincidence. ("Seven countries in five years") Why such a hurry? Well, the bimillennial is coming.

One thousand years with all the saints, then Satan was released ("the Schism"). One thousand now, since then.

200 million were murdered by their own governments, in the 20th century before he'd come. All was according to Albert Pike's letter.

People are injecting themselves with "God will strike you dead on a sports field" juice. Is that demoralized enough for you, Yuri (Bezmenov)?

Things may yet get worse. Even to 2033, there's still time enough for drone strikes on "white supremacist domestic terrorists".

Maybe I'm one, simply because I worship God, have beef cattle, and passed on the Mark.

Or maybe nothing happens; so I'm raising my daughters to be mothers.

Either way, I'll prep for 42 months, and pray for our souls.

Hey... It's a good living, if nothing else.

 

[Wutang]

Yes, and Biden's OSHA allows some folks to sell their labor, if they'll only take a Shot in the arm, or a Swab in the brain.

Dodging the Mark isn't a deciding factor in its validity; only in whether we're of the group which avoids it.

Taking a shot in the arm isn't the same as having the numbers 666 on your right hand and a swab isn't the same as putting the number 666 on your forehead.

A lot of the theories you are putting forth in this thread seem closer to what what evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants have been saying about the End Times and the Antichrist rather than what has been taught by the Catholic or Orthodox church. I just thought that was curious since you indicate that you are Orthodox underneath your user name.

 

[Roosh]

I don't believe the antichrist is a single person

In that case your beliefs are not compatible with Orthodox eschatology, and you are following a false prophecy. Your tag says Orthodox, but you are self-interpreting in a Protestant manner. The tag is for those who have been baptized in an Orthodox Church. Discuss your views with your priest so that you may be corrected.

 

[DanielH]

Thanks for sharing. I finished reading that article the other day and shared it with a close non-Orthodox friend of mine who has been reading it. He was interested in the relation of the vaccine or vaccine pass to the mark.

Good way to get people who aren't Orthodox but are aware of the evil behind the vaccine or great reset to read some very solid Orthodox material.

 

[Ben Boatman]

In that case your beliefs are not compatible with Orthodox eschatology, and you are following a false prophecy. Your tag says Orthodox, but you are self-interpreting in a Protestant manner. The tag is for those who have been baptized in an Orthodox Church. Discuss your views with your priest so that you may be corrected.

Well if I'm thus far an unrepentant Protestant, then I might as well ask again: Where in Revelation does John say antichrist?

Tl;Dr; He doesn't. John uses that term only in his epistles, and it's in reference to the spirit which tempts us all.

Now, being Orthodox, I'm sure you can point me to where the church fathers clearly stated this antichrist is a single person?

Because within the article you OP'd here, it's only Fr. Andrew who talks that way. It's not clear within his quoted sources at all. In fact, those sources mostly seem to back me up, and not him.

St. Ephraim the Syrian and St. Cyril of Jerusalem both wrote "of Antichrist" or "Antichrist will" but never "of the Antichrist" or "The Antichrist will". This should be interpreted as still speaking of a conquering spirit, no different than wrote the Theologian.

I can find translations of St. John of Damascus saying "he" and "him", but this can still be interpreted as speaking of a spirit, even as the offspring of fornication, or in coming from the Jews, as a spirit could emanant from those sources.

When one digs into it, the writings of the church fathers are no different than scripture. If we rely only on them, we're just as lost.

We'll get some Orthodox interpreting the church fathers as saying "the Antichrist", and get others still reading "antichrist".

Do you have a better, definitive source? Because I doubt my priest does, and he's not the one arguing this point either.

 

[DanielH]

Well if I'm thus far an unrepentant Protestant, then I might as well ask again: Where in Revelation does John say antichrist?

Tl;Dr; He doesn't. John uses that term only in his epistles, and it's in reference to the spirit which tempts us all.

Now, being Orthodox, I'm sure you can point me to where the church fathers clearly stated this antichrist is a single person?

Oh, so you're not actually Orthodox and your tag is wrong. Why don't you fix that.

What you're asserting is a word-concept fallacy. Different Fathers used different terms to mean the same thing. Christ himself has many many names. Arians will say the "Word" in John 1 doesn't mean Christ for example.

From the article:

This is clearly referencing the Antichrist, and it is clearly one individual person (as even Christ said), not a "system." John had different words to describe him in Revelation than Paul in the cited passage.

St. Ephraim the Syrian and St. Cyril of Jerusalem both wrote "of Antichrist" or "Antichrist will" but never "of the Antichrist" or "The Antichrist will". This should be interpreted as still speaking of a conquering spirit, no different than wrote the Theologian.

You're reaching here. Again from the article:

I'm not going to try to rebut each claim. You're nitpicking - St. Cyril is obviously referring to a singular person unless the translation is woefully wrong.

It's clear you have your mind set though, as even in the writings you found which refer to a singular person, your interpretation is different as then you say "he" actually means a vague spirit.

 

[NickK]

Rev 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six

 

[Ben Boatman]

Reading about the "Man of Lawlessness" in 2 Thessalonians 2, I'm reading only about myself.

Not because I am "the AntiChrist", but because, as the Theologian wrote, the spirit of antichrist is here (and always was).

Better to deal within the sin within, and prepare for Christ's coming, than to fear for some bogeyman. And I think we'd all agree with that.

Next, Matthew 24:24 immediately refutes Fr. Andrew's interpretation of the preceding verse (24:23)

For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

Cleary note the plural "false christs and false prophets", is not a singular AntiChrist, but false christs of a spirit.

It took a while, but I finally found the specific St. Cyril reference.

St. Cyril of Jerusalem Catechetical Lecture 15

In only one of the 33 sections, AntiChrist is clearly referred to as a single person, compared to the other 32, which all refer to antichrist without a definite article.

Nevertheless, I will concede this as one indisputable use of AntiChrist in reference to a singular person, amid all I've looked at today (including another, more easy to find writing of St. Cyril).

Point, set, match? Yes, I'll concede.

And you'll have to concede: We've all been behaving like Protestants, reading and quoting this or that.

And I do declare the OP article suspicious, at best, based upon Fr. Andrew's abuse of Matthew 24:23.

I hope you'll consider that as well, and read the original sources, rather than his interpretation.

Or read nothing, and just prepare for tribulations - body and soul - whenever they may come.

At least, I think that's "What Would Jesus (Say to) Do".

So that's what I'm doing.

 

[Wutang]

In Revelation 19 the Beast will be thrown into the Lake of Fire along with the False Prophet. How does a system get condemned to hell? Is the False Prophet not an individual either?