Other Orthodox Lounge Thread

[Yeagerist]

Do you believe this? (This is an Orthobro page btw). I know it's mostly Protestant house churches that are operating without permission from the Commie government, but the early Church had it much worse under the pagan Roman Empire, yet it ultimately triumphed. I've seen some scoffing from neo-pagans and Orthodox who don't count Prots as Christians, but we must never discount the possibility of even heterodox churches being used to reach out to many people.

 

[rodion]

Do you believe this? (This is an Orthobro page btw). I know it's mostly Protestant house churches that are operating without permission from the Commie government, but the early Church had it much worse under the pagan Roman Empire, yet it ultimately triumphed. I've seen some scoffing from neo-pagans and Orthodox who don't count Prots as Christians, but we must never discount the possibility of even heterodox churches being used to reach out to many people.

View attachment 55972

Interesting. I know Father Seraphim Rose had a mentor who was an expert in ancient Chinese philosophy and he felt that the ancient Chinese were inadvertently close to Christ so it’s certainly a possibility

 

[Jaybosan]

Do you believe this? (This is an Orthobro page btw). I know it's mostly Protestant house churches that are operating without permission from the Commie government, but the early Church had it much worse under the pagan Roman Empire, yet it ultimately triumphed. I've seen some scoffing from neo-pagans and Orthodox who don't count Prots as Christians, but we must never discount the possibility of even heterodox churches being used to reach out to many people.

It's quite possible. The number of Christians there is larger than the population of some countries, estimates are between 31,220,000 and 49,170,000. More than culturally similar neighbor South Korea: 13,566,000 (1/3 of it's population). It would be helpful if Xi Jinping converted of course. Right now his faction seems to look at most religions as being potential competition for the state. Orthodox also do missions by the way.

 

[7-5]

Do you believe this? (This is an Orthobro page btw). I know it's mostly Protestant house churches that are operating without permission from the Commie government, but the early Church had it much worse under the pagan Roman Empire, yet it ultimately triumphed. I've seen some scoffing from neo-pagans and Orthodox who don't count Prots as Christians, but we must never discount the possibility of even heterodox churches being used to reach out to many people.

View attachment 55972

Chinese Philosophy is a very large and varied tradition of works.
Do elements of Confucian thought have some elements in it's principles in harmony with the eternal law?
Sure.
Did it resist Mao's Communism as well as Orthodoxy did Lenin's? No.

Read Han Feizi and point the Christian elements to me.
Look into the histories of Buddhist Warrior Monks and tell me they hold a candle to the Desert Fathers or those on Mt. Athos (distinct lack of weapons and martial arts originating from those holy men, as opposed to shaolin throughout the centuries).

There's a reason people like Lin Yutang converted to Christ. There's a reason the end of the samurai era was marked by corruption and brutality. There's a reason that devils don't recoil at the mentioning of the tao, the buddha or 'the venerable teachings of yao and shun' the way they do to scripture.

A formidable intellectual history that has positive qualities? Very much so.
Does it hold even a flicker of a flame to God's wisdom either in theory or practice?

Not for me.

Signed, a former Confucian.

 

[Yeagerist]

Chinese Philosophy is a very large and varied tradition of works.
Do elements of Confucian thought have some elements in it's principles in harmony with the eternal law?
Sure.
Did it resist Mao's Communism as well as Orthodoxy did Lenin's? No.

Read Han Feizi and point the Christian elements to me.
Look into the histories of Buddhist Warrior Monks and tell me they hold a candle to the Desert Fathers or those on Mt. Athos (distinct lack of weapons and martial arts originating from those holy men, as opposed to shaolin throughout the centuries).

There's a reason people like Lin Yutang converted to Christ. There's a reason the end of the samurai era was marked by corruption and brutality. There's a reason that devils don't recoil at the mentioning of the tao, the buddha or 'the venerable teachings of yao and shun' the way they do to scripture.

A formidable intellectual history that has positive qualities? Very much so.
Does it hold even a flicker of a flame to God's wisdom either in theory or practice?

Not for me.

Signed, a former Confucian.

I never said that Confucianism (or any of the ancient Chinese philosophies) is a suitable replacement for Christianity or that it's sufficient alone for Chinese people to come to Christ. Read the Facebook screenshot again. The page just claims that it's possible to reconcile Chinese philosophy with Christianity. The Stoics and other classical Greek philosophers with their concept of the logos became a means for the acceptance of the Incarnate Christ among the Greeks and other gentile peoples. This is despite the Eastern Roman Empire's suppression of Platonism and the Latin West's indiscriminate adoption of it which ultimately led to all sorts of heresies today.

Did it resist Mao's Communism as well as Orthodoxy did Lenin's? No.

The Chinese Communists persecuted and sought to destroy Confucianism as one of the "Four Olds" during the Cultural Revolution. Tell me how the Russian Church fared better during the near-century rule of the Bolsheviks, especially with the whole controversy of Sergianism, how many Church hierarchs caved in instead of embracing martyrdom.

Four Olds - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Read Han Feizi and point the Christian elements to me.
Look into the histories of Buddhist Warrior Monks and tell me they hold a candle to the Desert Fathers or those on Mt. Athos (distinct lack of weapons and martial arts originating from those holy men, as opposed to shaolin throughout the centuries).

Of course, they don't, for the obvious reason that they don't contain the full truth of the Gospel revealed in Jesus Christ. But remember that this emphasis on mysticism--and Western Christianity's rationalism--has served as a stumbling block for centuries against converting the peoples of East Asia. Honestly it sounds like you're overreacting based on your past association with Confucianism (which is not even a religion per se, but a combined legal-political-moral philosophy intended for a stable, hierarchical society) and you seek to stamp out this core element of East Asian culture for the sake of converting them to Christianity. Look how that mindset turned out in Tokugawa Japan.

There's a reason people like Lin Yutang converted to Christ. There's a reason the end of the samurai era was marked by corruption and brutality. There's a reason that devils don't recoil at the mentioning of the tao, the buddha or 'the venerable teachings of yao and shun' the way they do to scripture.

LOL I did a quick read of this Lin Yutang fellow on Wikipedia, and his life was a rollercoaster of abandoning his Christian upbringing and only returned to the faith in his 50s

Lin's relation with Christianity changed over the years. His father was a second-generation Christian, but at Tsinghua, Lin asked himself what it meant to be a Christian in China. Being a Christian meant acceptance of Western science and progress, but Lin became angry that being a Christian also meant losing touch with China's culture and his own personal identity.

On his return from study abroad, Lin renewed his respect for his father, yet he plunged into study of Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism and did not identify himself as Christian until the late 1950s.

After he returned to New York in the late 1950s, Lin renewed his interest in Christianity. His wife was a devout believer, and Lin admired her serenity and humility. After attending services with her at the Madison Avenue Presbyterian Church for several months, he joined the church and announced his return to the faith.[8] His 1959 book From Pagan to Christian explained this move, which many of his readers found surprising.

Sounds like a respectable intellectual and scholar to me, but his life struggle proves that there is still a need to reconcile East Asian philosophy with the Gospel rather than just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The medieval knights and Crusaders of the Catholic West weren't all noble warriors who followed the code of chivalry to a tee either. Case in point, the Fourth Crusade and the sacking of Constantinople. Who would have known that forbidding the peasantry to carry weapons and having an entire landed feudal class ruling over them would result in rampant violence and corruption?

And demons will not recoil at any other worldview or philosophy that is rooted apart from Christ. But that doesn't discount the possibility of these philosophies of men serving as a means for people to find their way to Christ. It's literally what St. Justin Martyr talked about in his doctrine of the Spermatikos Logos. I suppose you should also reject the book Christ the Eternal Tao, which argues that Jesus is the very one talked about as the Tao by Lao Tzu and his followers.

Let's just agree to disagree here, since I rarely have the mental energy for lengthy refutation these past few days.

 

[7-5]

I never said that Confucianism (or any of the ancient Chinese philosophies) is a suitable replacement for Christianity or that it's sufficient alone for Chinese people to come to Christ.

Please forgive my vehemence in my last post, it definitely wasn't directed at you, personally. Just the post from the Facebook page itself.

I can see by my phrasing how someone could interpret that as a personal refutation and I overlooked how it might make you feel. I am sorry for that.

I've dealt with people idealizing (or in some cases, outright idolizing) Chinese/Asian philosophy almost my entire adult life, so I get frustrated quickly when I notice others doing it.
Which, again, I did not mean to accuse you of doing. It was just what I saw as the implications of the post quoted.

That being said, it's a topic near and dear to me. You've brought up points I'd like to give a rebuttal to.

Platonism and the Latin West's indiscriminate adoption of it which ultimately led to all sorts of heresies today.

You and I, here and now; which Christian tradition did we come find to be true? The one that adopted Platonism or the one that suppressed it?
How many arguments have we seen on this very forum regarding the differences between the Latin and the Greek?
Between Western Rome and Eastern Rome alone?
I, for one, do not value short term utility over long term implications.

Tell me how the Russian Church fared better during the near-century rule of the Bolsheviks

The Russian Church is still around, the civil service examinations and scholar-gentry class are not.

and you seek to stamp out this core element of East Asian culture for the sake of converting them to Christianity.

Please don't impose intent on me. I seek nothing of the sort.

and only returned to the faith in his 50s

Only?
Who cares when someone comes back to the faith? Am I to look down on anyone for 'only' coming into their faith in their 30s like St. Augustine? Or their mid twenties? Or for not being 'cradle Orthodox'?
Lin Yutang (and I am sorry for bringing the guy up out of nowhere, he was the one that translated the books I read on Confucianism and Daosim. Reading about his conversion later helped bring me to Christ. That's why he's on my mind for this topic.) was a lifelong academic who knew the intricacies and subtleties of the philosophy he researched.
And what converts him? After reading passage after passage about service to family, elders and community. About personal dignity and moral rectitude: his wife's conduct is what impressed him the most.

By their fruits you shall know them. If the East Asian intellectual tradition cannot bring about such conduct over time (and it didn't) then I find no need to 'reconcile' anything. Positive qualities to be had, to be sure. Stoicism had similar positive qualities and it likewise did not curb the excesses of the Roman Empire.

East Asian philosophy with the Gospel rather than just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Some of these philosophies and religious traditions are entirely incompatible with others within their same culture. The desire to 'reconcile' 'East Asian Philosophy' as a broad heading with The Gospel is like trying to 'find common ground' between Epicurus, Heraclitus, Aristotle, Aenesidemus, Epictetus and dozens of other sophists (using that in the classical, not modern, sense) with the word of God.

You mentioned earlier in your post about Platonism and it being used in a similar vein, 'which ultimately led to all sorts of heresies today'.
That's one intellectual tradition from The West and look at the result from such 'reconciliation'. Are you so certain that even in 50 years time the same troubles will not manifest for each of the large traditions from East Asia?

The medieval knights and Crusaders of the Catholic West weren't all noble warriors who followed the code of chivalry to a tee either.

So what?

I suppose you should also reject the book Christ the Eternal Tao, which argues that Jesus is the very one talked about as the Tao by Lao Tzu and his followers.

Considering what Taoism became? Yes.

Also, and my memory may be fuzzy here, but I'm pretty sure 'The Tao' was spoken of as an entity and not a person. Unless you mean something different when you type 'the very one'.

since I rarely have the mental energy for lengthy refutation these past few days.

Your previous post does not indicate this.


At the end of the day, do I still draw on my previous studies for helping me understand God? In many ways, yes.

I've read The Hagakure and The Analects dozens of times, when I was searching for anything to guide me in this world as a young hedonist.

'One should first consider his master (daimyo) in all things', ok, I can make The Lord my daimyo.
'The way of the samurai is found in death and one should meditate on death daily to be prepared for it'. Hmm... Ok, I guess I could focus on death while being a Christian.
'The Author practiced execution of criminals and found it to be a good, useful experience'. Uhh... Pretty sure I can't adopt that in my new life.
'A certain samurai was the progenitor of homosexuality in our province, when asked to describe it, it was called something pleasant and unpleasant'. Err... Ok...

'The Master' says that roles and relationships are of the utmost importance and define your duties and responsibilities in any situation. Ok, 'honor thy father and thy mother', seems easy.
'The Master' says to always act with the utmost dignity even in your innermost privacy.
Ok, hard to do, but laudable. Didn't I just read a story in this Bible thing of mine where some guy 'danced in the holy spirit' and his wife hated him for dancing and then The Lord... Cursed her with barrenness?
Hmm... Utmost dignity... Curses for not dancing, so... Do I not dance to preserve dignity or was The Master wrong?

(The above are just initial thoughts I had in my own attempts at reconciliation with my own knowledge).

Have I found the consistent practice of doing so to be useful and edifying? Increasingly not.
Confucius, LaoZi and others may have helped me as a younger man when all would've had otherwise was The Daily Show and constant alcohol.
But it was one, one reading of The Confessions that brought me to God finally. Continuing patristic reading has helped me, not a further, concurrent investigation of The Confucian Classics or the development of Daoist teachings after LaoZi.

The Christian intellectual and spiritual tradition is higher in theory as well as result. It does not need to seek compatibility with men who value ancient knowledge, disavowal of 'attachments' or even 'accordance with The Way'.
This being said, I think such knowledge should be preserved.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

What a powerful book Sirach is. Just listened fr Josiah's course on it. The wisdom truly is mindbending. It's shocking to realize the complete lack of all these lessons in a young man's life like myself now, and the nuances and pitfalls there are in any realm of human life. I literally had no insight in any of the lessons, from how to speak, how to evaluate people, what to do and what not to do. No wonder I endlessly stepped on landmines: I had no idea where they were located, let alone that I was walking in a minefield at all. No, my impression was that all'd be roses and sunshine, and everything would "just come" and "just happen spontaneously". What a through and through bad setup this society gives you for life, no guidance at all to guide you through the jungle of life. No wonder everyone is stuck in that jungle, lost, confused, desperate and in darkness. It all starts to make sense now.

 

[DanielH]

What a powerful book Sirach is. Just listened fr Josiah's course on it. The wisdom truly is mindbending. It's shocking to realize the complete lack of all these lessons in a young man's life like myself now, and the nuances and pitfalls there are in any realm of human life. I literally had no insight in any of the lessons, from how to speak, how to evaluate people, what to do and what not to do. No wonder I endlessly stepped on landmines: I had no idea where they were located, let alone that I was walking in a minefield at all. No, my impression was that all'd be roses and sunshine, and everything would "just come" and "just happen spontaneously". What a through and through bad setup this society gives you for life, no guidance at all to guide you through the jungle of life. No wonder everyone is stuck in that jungle, lost, confused, desperate and in darkness. It all starts to make sense now.

Sirach has definitely been one of the most influential books of the bible for me as well. Like you said, it's really eye opening, and it puts everything in quite simple terms which makes wisdom palatable to normal people.

 

[Yeagerist]

Please forgive my vehemence in my last post, it definitely wasn't directed at you, personally. Just the post from the Facebook page itself.

I can see by my phrasing how someone could interpret that as a personal refutation and I overlooked how it might make you feel. I am sorry for that.

I've dealt with people idealizing (or in some cases, outright idolizing) Chinese/Asian philosophy almost my entire adult life, so I get frustrated quickly when I notice others doing it.
Which, again, I did not mean to accuse you of doing. It was just what I saw as the implications of the post quoted.

Pardon me also for my harsh language earlier. I suppose we're coming from different perspectives vis-a-vis East Asian philosophy, and I respect your personal reasons for rejecting and leaving Confucianism behind.

The way I see it, there are already signs pointing out to East Asia (China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, possibly Mongolia) as the bastion of Christendom in the 21st Century receiving the torch from Western Europe and North America, as the latter regions have plunged into godlessness for the last hundred years. I could vouch for this with my personal experience meeting many Korean Christians, for example, and how Christianity enjoys political influence in South Korea. This was before everybody started viewing this country through the lens of K-pop (and all cringe elements associated with it). Also with indications of China becoming the most populous Christian country in a few decades.

So obviously, such a long-term consideration of these trends warrants the question, "How would Christianity be integrated into East Asian societies, considering the core role of Confucian ethics and Taoist practices in East Asian culture?" Now, Shinto, Korean shamanism and Chinese folk religion had to go, because they're stark paganism (it's non-negotiable). But dealing with Confucianism and Taoism from a Christian perspective requires a more nuanced approach. The main element of Confucianism that primarily goes into conflict with Christianity is ancestor worship, but this is something that's only assumed as a given part of Confucian cosmology, i.e., it's a belief that chiefly serves to enforce Confucian moral norms of respecting one's elders, and does not stand by itself.

I've read some literature describing the discourse between Neo-Confucian scholars of the Joseon Dynasty and Catholic missionaries and local converts. The Neo-Confucians rejected Christianity on the primary grounds that its emphasis on the afterlife and asceticism, like Zen Buddhism, poses a danger to social stability which is enshrined by Confucian ethics above all else. Even in contemporary South Korean society, there's still conflicts over, for example, eldest sons fulfilling their obligation of filial piety in ancestor veneration, which their Protestant mothers and churches consider a violation of the 2nd Amendment. These are a couple of instances I brought up to emphasize the need for considering Confucianism in a future possible predominantly Christian social order.

Who cares when someone comes back to the faith? Am I to look down on anyone for 'only' coming into their faith in their 30s like St. Augustine? Or their mid twenties? Or for not being 'cradle Orthodox'?
Lin Yutang (and I am sorry for bringing the guy up out of nowhere, he was the one that translated the books I read on Confucianism and Daosim. Reading about his conversion later helped bring me to Christ. That's why he's on my mind for this topic.) was a lifelong academic who knew the intricacies and subtleties of the philosophy he researched.
And what converts him? After reading passage after passage about service to family, elders and community. About personal dignity and moral rectitude: his wife's conduct is what impressed him the most.

What I want to say about this man is that his personal experience reveals his inner conflict between the Christian faith he was brought up in and the non-Christian philosophy that permeated the culture that he lived in. Praise God for his wife's personal conduct that ultimately brought him back to Christianity.

But ultimately the external behavior of Christians can be a double-edged sword when it comes to attracting converts and keeping cradle Christians in the faith. Using Korean churches as an example again, I've read up on how many young people are being disillusioned with Christianity because of the numerous financial scandals involving megachurches, and the spiritual emptiness brought about by "prosperity theology" among Pentecostals. Seems like it's a universal problem for Christians, regardless of location or nationality or denomination.

Some of these philosophies and religious traditions are entirely incompatible with others within their same culture. The desire to 'reconcile' 'East Asian Philosophy' as a broad heading with The Gospel is like trying to 'find common ground' between Epicurus, Heraclitus, Aristotle, Aenesidemus, Epictetus and dozens of other sophists (using that in the classical, not modern, sense) with the word of God.

You mentioned earlier in your post about Platonism and it being used in a similar vein, 'which ultimately led to all sorts of heresies today'.
That's one intellectual tradition from The West and look at the result from such 'reconciliation'. Are you so certain that even in 50 years time the same troubles will not manifest for each of the large traditions from East Asia?

I concede your point here, because I've known about some syncretism being practiced by Chinese, Korean and Japanese Christians. But imagine the immense social and cultural inertia if we foreigners pressure them to abandon their cultural practices altogether if they wish to embrace Orthodoxy. You may think why I overthink over such possible backlash, but these Christians/potential Christians would be facing the same wrestling of their conscience just like the Corinthian Christians who refuse to eat meat offered to the Greco-Roman gods, despite the Apostle Paul writing to them that these idols no longer hold power over them because of Jesus Christ.

I hope I explained my perspective well here.

 

[7-5]

Pardon me also for my harsh language earlier. I suppose we're coming from different perspectives vis-a-vis East Asian philosophy, and I respect your personal reasons for rejecting and leaving Confucianism behind.

Thank you. And I want to further add that I will be more watchful of my knee-jerk reactions in the future.
After all, 'no matter how good your words or arguments, you sully them all with anger.'

I could vouch for this with my personal experience meeting many Korean Christians, for example, and how Christianity enjoys political influence in South Korea.

I would love to hear more about this.
I never delved into a focused study on Korea and I continually regret it.

Also with indications of China becoming the most populous Christian country in a few decades.

Be careful with this thinking. The CCP has cracked down hard on religious organizations before and China has a history of doing so (indeed, don't all nations?). What we must welcome with a cautious smile is: What kind of Christianity are they bringing to the world stage? And, does the government have an official monopoly on it? (Very likely)

Never forget that the last bastions of Manichaeism and Nestorianism were around for centuries there after they were defeated in The West. Great conflicts can be had on these matters with secular communists as well as a newly converted 'Protestant' Orient.

But dealing with Confucianism and Taoism from a Christian perspective requires a more nuanced approach.

Agreed. Did not mean to imply otherwise.

In my view the one to look at are the cultural underpinnings of Confucian thought. Taoism has essentially morphed into Chinese folk religion, far as I'm concerned. And Confucians did a pretty good job of refuting it in their day prior to Taoists having priests, blessings, gods and all the usual hallmarks of a pagan religion.
Personal proclivities aside, I imagine the refutations of East Asian Philosophy and religion in a situation where someone like St. Augustine or St. Chrystotom write lengthy treatises and articles alongside lives of great virtue and good example.

The Neo-Confucians rejected Christianity on the primary grounds that its emphasis on the afterlife and asceticism, like Zen Buddhism, poses a danger to social stability which is enshrined by Confucian ethics above all else.

I think the issue there was who was combatting Neo-Confucianism. I'd be willing to bet that a 'based & red-pilled' Orthodox mission would do a much better job of appealing to a culture's particular sensitivities while not engaging in syncretism.

It worked well for St. Nicholas of Japan. He fully got to know traditional Japanese culture and converted legitimate samurai who were otherwise willing to kill him, did he not?

Also keep in mind we'd need to refute the communist thinkers post-mao. Itd be foolish to underestimate thinkers like Wang Hunin (yes, I read Vox Day's blog, yes I bought 'America Against America' because of it) or even just to assume it hasn't evolved with the times. That brand of 'Neo-Confucian' will be the most formidable.

What I want to say about this man is that his personal experience reveals his inner conflict between the Christian faith he was brought up in and the non-Christian philosophy that permeated the culture that he lived in.

True enough for the lifelong academic. I doubt the average working man shares such compunctions.

Using Korean churches as an example again, I've read up on how many young people are being disillusioned with Christianity because of the numerous financial scandals involving megachurches, and the spiritual emptiness brought about by "prosperity theology" among Pentecostals.

Mm, not surprising given the same proclivity over here.
I'd love to hear morr about your experiences with korean churches, it sounds like you've been amongst them a fair degree.

But imagine the immense social and cultural inertia if we foreigners pressure them to abandon their cultural practices altogether if they wish to embrace Orthodoxy.

I dont think this is as big a worry as it may initially appear.
Cultures change over time anyways. It took centuries for The West to stamp out paganism. Russia wasn't converted in half a century (I dont think, I admit large areas of ignorance on this topic).

Sincere example and 'strong frame' will do more to convert, I think.

You may think why I overthink over such possible backlash,

I have no such thoughts. Imposing intention on the other person in a conversation is usually ill-advised.
(I say that with respect.)

wrestling of their conscience just like the Corinthian Christians who refuse to eat meat offered to the Greco-Roman gods, despite the Apostle Paul writing to them that these idols no longer hold power over them

If things take a generation or two to die out, is that really so long?
All things in God's time.
And never forget, when you're dealing with the Chinese: You're dealing with a people who have a high culture that boasts multiple examples of breeding invading cultures out of power.

These are long term thinkers.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Video link shared by Fr. Andrew Dalton, biblical scholar and expert on the Shroud of Turin:

Theosis as the heart of Orthodox theology (with Seraphim Hamilton) - Click here.

 

[Akaky Akakievitch]

Can anyone help me find this booklet:

The 52 Demons in a Deck of Cards by Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos’

It was recommended by Elder Athanasius Mitilinaios in one of his Revelation homilies, I've only found excerpts so far:

The 52 Demons in a Deck of Cards

Around the 16 th century, the passion for card playing was so great in various countries that there wasn’t a popular restaurant without a deck of cards either new or old.. In Greece

1library.net

This is where the world of conspiracies and Orthodoxy meet. Here he reveals where dice/dominoes/cards originated from (spoiler alert: they were ancient Satanists), the names of every demon lurking behind each of the 52 cards in a deck (yes really), and this one will be impossible to unsee and surely will convince any faithful Christian to never touch a deck of cards ever again in their life:

The Symbols of A Deck of Cards

We will reveal to our readers what is truly behind the four ‘camouflaged’ and seemingly innocent signs in a deck of cards:

(♥) The female breasts and genital organs.

(♠) The anus and male genital organs.

(♣) Our old, familiar Crux Ansata(Ankh), the unholy cross of Black Magic, comprised from the interlacement of both female and male genital organs.

(♦) Two touching triangles. If you push one of the triangles downwards or upwards, you would have a Jewish star.

Hiding in plain sight all this time!

 

[Yeagerist]

I would love to hear more about this.
I never delved into a focused study on Korea and I continually regret it.

I have a bunch of literature concerning Korean Christianity, which piqued my interest since this is the East Asian nation where Christianity enjoyed the most success not only in terms of religious freedom but also in political influence, so it serves as a preview for how Christianity in modern China will be when granted religious freedom, or how Japanese society will be like with one-quarter to one-third of its populace being Christian.

Be careful with this thinking. The CCP has cracked down hard on religious organizations before and China has a history of doing so (indeed, don't all nations?). What we must welcome with a cautious smile is: What kind of Christianity are they bringing to the world stage? And, does the government have an official monopoly on it? (Very likely)

Never forget that the last bastions of Manichaeism and Nestorianism were around for centuries there after they were defeated in The West. Great conflicts can be had on these matters with secular communists as well as a newly converted 'Protestant' Orient.

I'd figure the Orthodox Church can convoke a synod or council dealing with the issues of syncretism. Not sure what the Vatican's approach will be, given their alarming trends of welcoming ecumenism and modernism. For Chinese Protestants, it'll be a free-for-all with Western missionaries and denominations trying to "correct" their beliefs or otherwise competing for the new "market" of converts. What is certain is that this will open up a whole new field of apologetics that Orthodox theologians will have to work for. We're gonna need many scholars who will walk in the paths of St. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom, as you said.

I think the issue there was who was combatting Neo-Confucianism. I'd be willing to bet that a 'based & red-pilled' Orthodox mission would do a much better job of appealing to a culture's particular sensitivities while not engaging in syncretism.

It worked well for St. Nicholas of Japan. He fully got to know traditional Japanese culture and converted legitimate samurai who were otherwise willing to kill him, did he not?

Also keep in mind we'd need to refute the communist thinkers post-mao. Itd be foolish to underestimate thinkers like Wang Hunin (yes, I read Vox Day's blog, yes I bought 'America Against America' because of it) or even just to assume it hasn't evolved with the times. That brand of 'Neo-Confucian' will be the most formidable.

From what I've read about the Joseon Neo-Confucians critiquing Catholicism, this was due to the failure of Latin Christianity explaining the concept of theosis and its dogma of Absolute Divine Simplicity. Confucian cosmology presupposes a pantheist axiom of the divine energies permeating all life, and thus concluding that by cultivation of good works (by adhering to filial piety, for example), human beings can simply attain holiness on their own. So the challenge to Eastern Orthodox apologetics is to demonstrate how God's divine energies is distinct and separate from creation and humanity (i.e. why human beings cannot attain perfection, virtue and holiness on their own) yet at the same time how it's possible for created matter to be elevated (deified) with God's divine energies, as exemplified in the real presence of the Eucharist and Christ's Incarnation itself. Conversion to Christ and salvation is the way to do this. The goal of the Christian life is not a fear-driven desire to escape hellfire and attain the safety of heaven, but to partake of the divine nature through theosis and communion with the Triune God. Christian asceticism does not consist of disdaining created matter and human nature as totally evil, with the objective of freeing the soul from the "prison" of the body (as what Gnosticism and Buddhism teach). However, I think that the very institution of monasticism puts Christianity on an inevitable collision course with Confucianism; nevertheless, one can make a case for Christian laity to still practice piety whilst living in the outside society.

The notion of Heaven and Hell was not new to Confucians. For example, Buddhists also claimed
that the spirits lasted even after death and that they were sent to various degrees of heaven and hell
according to their merits and demerits (p. 89). Shin warns that it is characteristic of all the heresies
(idan) to lure people by provoking their fundamental desire for life and fear of death (pp. 88–89).
Daoism entices people with alchemies and strange practices for longevity; Hindu-Buddhism entices
and threatens people with the next life and rebirth. On the contrary, Confucianism focuses on the
present world. An ideal Confucian person, junzi, does a good action because it is good in itself; it is not
because it will bring him or her any further benefits. Confucius urged, “When seeing the benefit, one
must think about whether it is righteous: when seeing danger, one must risk one’s own life” (Analects
14.12) (Confucius 1979). Mencius also ascertained that all humane persons would be alarmed and rush
to save a baby about to fall into a well not because of others’ praise or condemnation, not because
of further benefit, but because it is part of our nature (The Book of Mencius 2A.6) (Mencius 1970).
Shin regards that if the motivation behind any good action is to go to Heaven after death, then it is not
out of one’s spontaneous and genuine heart-mind.

Confucians value this world here and now and it is the only way to bridging this life and
the beyond, the limited and the infinite, the temporal, and the eternal. Confucianism holds that
humanity can achieve perfection and live up to heavenly principles, by fulfilling their ‘mission’ in
this world—that is, their ethical and moral duties, conscientiously exercised in the form of social and
political action (Yao 2000, p. 46).

One may still ask whether there is no notion of retributive justice in Confucianism. In fact, there
is a widely quoted passage ‘rewarding the good and punishing the wicked’ (福善禍淫) in an ancient
Confucian text (The Book of Documents, Announcement of Tang 3). Shin, however, contends that it bears
a completely different meaning:

There is a saying “rewarding the good and punishing the wicked” in our Confucian Classics.
However, it only refers to li, the universal principle of the world. Humans and the Way
of Heaven are on in this principle, and this principle is good in itself. The good people go
along with this principle and naturally invoke blessings; the wicked go against this principle
and bring misfortunes onto themselves. It is how the principle works. How can the Lord
of Heaven judge one by one and mete out fortunes every time? So-called rewards and the
punishments are just ways the virtuous and the vicious are treated in this world. How can
they be compared with the [Catholic] belief in Heaven and Hell? (pp. 86–87)​

If things take a generation or two to die out, is that really so long?
All things in God's time.
And never forget, when you're dealing with the Chinese: You're dealing with a people who have a high culture that boasts multiple examples of breeding invading cultures out of power.

These are long term thinkers.

Yeah, only time can tell indeed

Can anyone help me find this booklet:

The 52 Demons in a Deck of Cards by Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos’

It was recommended by Elder Athanasius Mitilinaios in one of his Revelation homilies, I've only found excerpts so far:

The 52 Demons in a Deck of Cards

Around the 16 th century, the passion for card playing was so great in various countries that there wasn’t a popular restaurant without a deck of cards either new or old.. In Greece

1library.net

This is where the world of conspiracies and Orthodoxy meet. Here he reveals where dice/dominoes/cards originated from (spoiler alert: they were ancient Satanists), the names of every demon lurking behind each of the 52 cards in a deck (yes really), and this one will be impossible to unsee and surely will convince any faithful Christian to never touch a deck of cards ever again in their life:



Hiding in plain sight all this time!

"As above, so below"

No wonder gambling is such a powerful addiction that cannot be easily escaped. Casino goers literally use the iconography of Baphomet and Beelzebub.

 

[Wutang]

I'm speculating but assuming that it's really true that there's millions of Chinese coming to Christ, the role of Confucianism in relationship to Christianity in China could be similar to Platoism/Neo-Platoism was to Christianity. Platonic/Neo-Platonic thought had a huge impact on the development of Christian theology and I'm wondering if elements of Confucianism could be employed in a similar way. I can see the Chinese concept of 'tian' being used in a similar way that the Word/Logos and Unmoved Mover was to explain God.

EDIT: Just read through more of the posts above and looks like other posters already covered this idea.

 

[7-5]

I'm speculating but assuming that it's really true that there's millions of Chinese coming to Christ, the role of Confucianism in relationship to Christianity in China could be similar to Platoism/Neo-Platoism was to Christianity. Platonic/Neo-Platonic thought had a huge impact on the development of Christian theology and I'm wondering if elements of Confucianism could be employed in a similar way. I can see the Chinese concept of 'tian' being used in a similar way that the Word/Logos and Unmoved Mover was to explain God.

EDIT: Just read through more of the posts above and looks like other posters already covered this idea.

Yes, we have, but: I am very much open to others chiming in and...

Have been thinking that it might warrant its own topic someday...